Official SDN pre-veterinary VIDA Volunteer Travel trip!

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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It was a steep learning curve and I was surprised at how well I handled the responsibility and the stress. I felt like I was of thrown into crazyness but by the middle of day 2, it was already starting to feel like routine.

I think the point I was trying to make with the temperature thing was that with most of these minor skills, I got the hang of it pretty quickly without ever seeing it done. I realize that surgeries are a lot more complicated than giving an IM injection to a cow, but I saw a lot more spays/neuters and had the gist of the procedure down before I even got to touch a scalpel. I knew the anatomy,the steps and what types of sutures are appropriate pretty well from watching so many. As soon as the animal hit the recovery floor, I was back to being clueless about what to do.

I don't consider myself an expert with anything I did on that trip. I need a lot more experience and education. The trip kind of left me thirsty for more. By the time I get around to learning about spays and neuters in vet school, I'll have forgotten about what I did down south. I haven't even gotten the opportunity to volunteer since then so I can't even discuss what happened with a vet.
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squeegee said:
:thumbup:

also, aside from possible surgical complications that may crop up later on and extra time under anesthesia, what about increased nociception wind-up? or increased inflammatory mediator release due to excessive tissue manipulation, or the potential increased release of blood -> iron -> fenton reaction -> generation of reactive oxygen species and injury? it seems to me there are more factors that are changed with a surgery performed by someone without experience than just the main procedure itself.

it's also just crazy to me that someone can go from never having even taken a temperature to performing abdominal surgery in the span of just a few days, bypassing even learning blood draws or catheter placement first. granted i have no experience with these trips either, but still. to me that's crazy!
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:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Doesn't make much sense to me, either, especially when you can be more efficient (perform more surgeries) if pre-vets were relegated to tech-like duties.

Thought of an appropriate analogy during a PM exchange: surgery =/= putting a desk together. It is not "insert tab A into slot B." There is a reason why vet students stress out over their first spay and watch step-by-step videos over and over again before they do it and review their notes from anatomy and physiology as well as their surgery courses.And believe me, most of us have seen at least as many spays and neuters as you guys had before you went on the trip.

The very fact that people are bragging about keyhole incisions (extremely poor visualization) and lack of obvious bleeding (almost certainly hypotension) indicate that more knowledge is needed before you pick up the scalpel.

But then, perhaps I just feel protective of my future license because I'm paying well over $200K for it. ;)

P.S. I'm not sure about the laws in Canada, but in the US, it's illegal for techs to perform cat neuters. And yes, I do agree that there are some techs who should not be allowed to draw blood. And yes, I think there should be a recertification program for licensed veterinarians. And no, I don't think that having an A in vet school doesn't make you more qualitifed to perform surgery than someone who passed--but there is someone who is assessing your abilities and knowledge base at every single step of the game until and through the point in the curriculum when you are actually touching patients and performing surgery. And there is a reason the curriculum does not last a few days. (Just to answer all of scarcelyheard's questions. ;) )
 
alliecat44 said:
The very fact that people are bragging about keyhole incisions (extremely poor visualization) and lack of obvious bleeding (almost certainly hypotension) indicate that more knowledge is needed before you pick up the scalpel.
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First, there was no bragging. I was merely stating the technique we were using. The vets there worked with smaller incisions because of the conditions of the areas we were working in and because of the conditions they, the animals, were living in.

Second, again, I was stating what I observed and what I discussed with the vets on staff. I didn't say there was no bleeding.
 
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scb44f said:
First, there was no bragging. I was merely stating the technique we were using. The vets there worked with smaller incisions because of the conditions of the areas we were working in and because of the conditions they, the animals, were living in.

Second, again, I was stating what I observed and what I discussed with the vets on staff. I didn't say there was no bleeding.
Click to expand...

My apologies--poor choice of words on my part.

The thing is that without proper education, people aren't going to know enough whether to decide for themselves the pros/cons and particular surgical issues that might come up with using a keyhole incision, or think that "less" bleeding is indicative of a "better" surgery--when in fact, the animal might have copious bleeding once it wakes up and its blood pressure returns to normal.

These are just two very broad and over-simplified examples of why I don't think it's appropriate to have people with such minimal training performing surgery. Again, though, I apologize for my word choice.
 
alliecat44 said:
My apologies--poor choice of words on my part.

The thing is that without proper education, people aren't going to know enough whether to decide for themselves the pros/cons and particular surgical issues that might come up with using a keyhole incision, or think that "less" bleeding is indicative of a "better" surgery--when in fact, the animal might have copious bleeding once it wakes up and its blood pressure returns to normal.

These are just two very broad and over-simplified examples of why I don't think it's appropriate to have people with such minimal training performing surgery. Again, though, I apologize for my word choice.
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Sounds like it was partly my fault as well.

I still don't see how it is that bad for someone to follow the hand-on-hand direction of someone else in this situation, seeing as a licensed professional was watching our every move to prevent those preventable problems from happening. But, it sounds like that is just something we won't see eye to eye on, and that's okay. :)
 
I'm a little bit miffed that my thread that I made for the trip is filled with this debate. I didn't make the topic for something like this. Maybe the posts about the ethics of these types of trips could be put in a separate thread with a more accurate title, and I could have this thread back for it's original, intended purpose? I could even link to the other thread, just so everyone can ponder the moral implications of it. I just want the SDN VIDA trip thread back.
 
Is it possible for someone to start a new thread that's reserved for people who are seriously considering attending this trip, where they can discuss itinerary, costs, flights, what to bring, etc., and to converse with people who have attended a VIDA trip?

If anyone is interested in finding out more about our first SDN VIDA trip, feel free to pm me or anyone else who has attended. I know personally that tt, scb44f, ckd816 and dee vee emm will also be happy to share the good, the bad and the ugly with you.

A picture is worth a thousand words, so if any of you would like to see what you're getting youself into, drop me a line and I'll be happy to share them with you. I also wrote a brief article for my university newsletter about my experiences and I can pass that along to you as well. PM me. I probably won't be on this forum until after exams are finished.
 
Hey guys!

So the deadline for signing up for this trip is January 20th.

If anyone here thinks they might be interested, please let me know!

Don't let the debate scare you away - do some research and decide how you feel. Don't hesitate to PM me with any concerns.

If you would like to rekindle the debate (ugh) please do so on the other thread linked above. This thread is for anyone who may be interested in joining us this May. :)

I have two people signed up so far, but I don't know their usernames. IF you have signed up for the SDN VIDA trip, please PM me! I'd love to hear from you!

ETA: If you are new and don't know what this is, please start at the beginning of the thread here! The trip details are given, as well as some basic info about what to expect.
 
Giving the thread another bump!

We now have three people signed up for the trip. Again, if you've signed up, send me a PM so I know your username and can add you to the list here!

Now, we really need 15 members to make sure that this trip will be able to go as planned. VIDA is wanting to open this trip up to anyone, SDN or otherwise. If you guys want to keep this a strictly SDN trip, we need more recruits!

What do I need to do to convince you guys that this is an awesome experience? Do you want to see pictures? Do you want to hear about all the neat stuff there is to do in Costa Rica and Panama? Do you have any questions? Seriously, hit me up! I'm all ears!
 
Sorry guys, doesn't look like I am going to be able to add myself to the count this year.....things came up.
I really hope you get your 15 that would be awesome to just have an SDN group....can't wait to hear about it. I really would have liked to see the sloth sanctuary.
Maybe next year!

Have a safe trip for all of you going....
 
Just another nudge on the thread here... since the deadline for the $100 application fee is January 20th. I am available to answer any questions, as are others who have been on a VIDA trip, so don't be shy if you're considering the trip but want more info about it.
 
Awesome! It looks like there are four people total... kind of a small group, but those can be the best too. You'll get to do a lot, and it'll be easier than it was for the previous group to eat, check in, etc... lots of waiting around.

I dunno if anyone else wants to come out of the woodwork and say that they signed up for the trip, but... well, feel free. We don't bite. :)

And if anyone desperately wants to sign up despite being past the deadline, I suggest you email Marla (info at vidavolunteertravel dot org) and ask about a late application. She's pretty nice. ;)

And, anyway, if anyone has any questions, feel free to post here or PM me, as always.
 
Has anyone been concerned about their safety during VIDA trips? The trips are to countries with high crime rates where the safety of americans could be compromised. The main reason I ask is my family is (kind of) freaking out about me being stolen/hurt/etc. during an upcoming trip. Any input/advice on your experiences/what to tell them?
 
We had no problems with theft at our group. You just have to use common sense. The VIDA trip said to avoid bringing valuables (electronics, jewelery, etc), and don't leave your stuff lying around (duh). During the clinics, most people left their money/passport stored someplace on the bus. The driver was on the bus the entire time we were in clinic. Also, most, if not all, of us had luggage locks.

Also, they strongly advise you not to go wandering around ALONE (another duh here lol). If I remember correctly, guys needed to be in pairs and girls needed to be in groups of 3 or more. Also, the only time we really had free time was in towns with LOTS of tourists.

The scariest thing I remember about the trip is that there was always a car alarm going off somewhere lol.
 
Also, you will not be going anywhere that has not been thoroughly checked out to make sure that it is a SAFE area. No shady neighborhoods or anything like that.

You are never alone and the staff is good at keeping an eye on things. If you wanted trouble, you'd have to go looking.
 
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