***Official where should Pickles matriculate thread***

[Picklesali]

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I was hoping that Penn or Yale would pan out so I wouldn't have to make this choice... Any thoughts?

Michigan
Pros:
1. 'Better'/more organized/recognized program *ranked highly by residency directors*
2. Students match well
3. Opportunity to do some clinical rotations prior to PhD
4. Opportunity for house/car lifestyle (although I have no money to buy either of these...)
5. They put on an annual spoof-style musical 🙂
6. They do not require summer rotation
7. Apparently my sister is a big fan of the logo. I said, "(insert sister's name here), it's just a big M" She says, "I know! It's a frickin' awesome Yellow M
8. There are more single men compared to women in Michigan

Cons:
1. Not close to any family
2. Weak immunology program
3. I do not like football

NYU
Pros:
1. NYC is awesome
2. I have family in NYC and in PA
3. Strong immunology program
4. Can hang out with Pennquaker and MarcTam
5. You get to eat sushi during interview weekends 🙂
6. My mother seems to think this is the better direction, but then again, she was under the impression that Michigan was in Minnesota...so I'm not sure if I trust her judgment!

Cons:
1. NYC - expense, hassle / would I have time and money to enjoy it?
2. I love the theatre/music/art scene - but I don't really dig 'night life' as much
3. Dorms 🙁 (w/ shared co-ed bathrooms...)
4. Program just got new director and will be undergoing lots of changes, guinea pig = bad
5. Requires summer rotation - I have a fellowship obligation...


(I've always wanted to make an "official" thread 🙂)

 

[solumanculver]

I was hoping that Penn or Yale would pan out so I wouldn't have to make this choice... Any thoughts?

Michigan
Pros:
1. 'Better'/more organized/recognized program
2. Students match well
3. Opportunity to do some clinical rotations prior to PhD
4. Opportunity for house/car lifestyle (although I have no money to buy either of these...)
5. They put on an annual spoof-style musical 🙂

Cons:
1. Not close to any family
2. Weak immunology program
3. I do not like football

NYU
Pros:
1. NYC is awesome
2. I have family in NYC and in PA
3. Strong immunology program

Cons:
1. NYC - expense, hassle
2. Dorms 🙁
3. Program just got new director and will be undergoing lots of changes

Hi Picklesali,
It seems like you're saying that Michigan sounds better than NYU, but in reality NYU is stronger for your interests. If that's the case, then it seems like Michigan has to offer a better environment than NYU if you're going to consider it. Are there any immunology labs at Michigan that you could see yourself in?

I can't really tell from your pros and cons list what you think about this, though... NYC is expensive and a pain, and you'll have to live in a dorm (apparently...), whereas Michigan will give you a higher standard of living, but possibly you won't have as much fun stuff to do (but there's always that musical to go to...).

Well, unless being close to your family is a huge deal to you, I kind of think that Michigan sounds better. I think that lifestyle considerations should generally win in any close race... And NYC will give you one of the worst lifestyles of anywhere.

Good luck on your decision. I feel your pain about the football, by the way, as I've decided on Ohio State. I just kind of assume that by the end of 8 years, I'll have developed an appreciation for the game.

 

[Kraazy]

Michigan
Pros:
5. They put on an annual spoof-style musical 🙂

Love that this is on your list of pros!
I am very partial to Michigan in terms of the program as a whole and the Ann Arbor way of life. NYC is awesome indeed, but there are limits to how much of this awesomeness you can enjoy as an MSTP student. However, I would advise you to go where you know you will find a good mentor, and adequate opportunities and support for your research. If your research prospects don't look good at Mich, I would go for NYU.
Are you going to UMIch revisit?

 

[heresjohn]

I would go with Michigan, unless you are sure you want to go into immunology. It's such a big school that strong in research in so many areas...plus it's ranked #5 by residency directors (this ranking is probably more relevant than the US News one)

 

[Kraazy]

Hi Picklesali,
I feel your pain about the football, by the way, as I've decided on Ohio State. I just kind of assume that by the end of 8 years, I'll have developed an appreciation for the game.

Pickles, this is a sign! You must go to Michigan and you and Solumanculver can root against each other at the big game every year!😉

 

[seraph524]

Go to Michigan! Its a great school with great facilities...and Ann Arbor is a nice college city!

 

[Dodo23]

Hey Pickles,

My bias would be toward NYC, toward the school that's stronger in the research you're interested in, and toward staying near family, who can offer a great support system through med school if you're close to them. However, I did not interview at Michigan and have never been to Ann Arbor, so I can't offer any useful comparison between the two schools. Ultimately you'll have to decide what's most important to you. I just wanted to wish you best of in making your final choice! You'll do great wherever you end up.

XX Dodo

 

[QofQuimica]

Bwahaha, this thread is awesomely narcissistic!

Unless you have a specific lab that you want to work in at NYU, I vote for U Mich. It's not prohibitively far from your family, and even though Ann Arbor is a college town, it's a d*** nice college town. It wouldn't even be bad to live there in your 30s, let alone your 20s. They have art shows and all kinds of other cool stuff to do there once you outgrow the clubbing/bar phase of your life. As for the football, just don't go to the games if it's not your thing.

Oh, and there is a med student frat house at U Mich, where you can live on campus and get your meals cooked for you every day. It's connected to the med school through the nursing school, so you don't have to go outside during the winter. You do have to share a bathroom, but you get your own room. All the residents are med and grad students, so you'd have lots of school resources (read between the lines here). If you revisit, check it out. That would be a good option if you're not planning to buy a car.

 

[pennquaker08]

If you go to NYU we can hang out in the city! 😀

(yeah, I know that's not a real reason...)

 

[LunderKind]

I don't really know about NYU, but I was really impressed by the program and opportunities at Michigan. As far as a city, Ann Arbor seems like a really nice place where you can either enjoy being young and going out or you can do the condo/house and car ("adult" yikes) thing. However, I think it's really up to how important it is to you to stay close to your family. I was away from home for school, and it can be very nice, but it does make things like moving difficult, in addition to the obvious that it's not as easy to get home. Don't underestimate the potential for weekend travel though, even if it involves a plane flight. DTW to New York or Philly should only be about a hour in the air.

How can you not like football? Being from Wisconsin, this is a concept that I don't understand. However, it won't be the same here without Favre.

 

[marctam86]

i would say NYU, but my family is here, so its an easy decision.

if you're deadset on immuno and you think nyu's research is much better, go there.

if you think youd want more options, and could live in michigan and be happy, id say umich

 

[j-weezy]

Although I liked Michigan for a variety of reasons, how can you beat spending your twenties in NYC??

I vote NYU - you give up a little bit of space for a world of culture and entertainment and nightlife!

 

[Picklesali]

Bwahaha, this thread is awesomely narcissistic!

😉

Everybody brings up such great points...ggggrraaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

 

[Picklesali]

If you go to NYU we can hang out in the city! 😀

(yeah, I know that's not a real reason...)

Sure it is 🙂 (edited pro/con list to reflect)

<-- currently wondering why I applied to all NY schools except Columbia?? (especially with the verbal score edge?!?!)

 

[solitude]

I vote Michigan, but I hate NYC; being from a small town in the Midwest, Ann Arbor is perfect for me. Although it is mighty cold. Even if you're dead set on immunology, you can only get your PhD in one great lab, which you are sure to find at Michigan. I also liked the medical school curriculum, and the grades are P/F there (not sure if that is also the case at NYU, but this is a huge lifestyle factor for me). The facilities are also phenomenal (where do they get all that money?), and if you decide against immuno, I think on the whole the research is better there. Sorry if this is all over the place, I need to go to sleep. Good luck! You can't go wrong 🙂.

 

[Neuronix]

I'd take NYU, but I'm biased for location. I think the posters are heavily overestimating your quality of life in and around Ann Arbor. You can afford a condo AND car on your stipend? How much are they giving there now?! Apartments there are as expensive as Chicago or Philadelphia but you're getting so much less in a city. You can't buy a house there without a lot of parent money and you won't get parking, so having a car and commuting in that way would be a real hassle. In reality you'll have the option of buying expensive parking, transferring to a shuttle in the freezing cold, or taking the bus.

At NYU you'll have student housing which helps with costs. As for time to enjoy where you are, don't kid yourself. You have plenty of time to do things while an MD/PhD student. It's 8 years of your life and it's one of the few times you'll have this much flexibility as to where you live. I say use it.

 

[WaltzingMatilda]

I vote NYU. Selfish reason: As you know, I am going to be in NYC, so we can hang out!
Ok, on to real reasons, I think Neuronix is right, unless you have a lot of parents money, you may not be able to afford condo, house, etc. anyway. And considering we are in our 20, we will have plenty of time for that kind of things later on. NYC has so much to offer. And I would hope that we will have time to enjoy ourselves. It's 8 years! I love science, but I don't plan on having a monotonous 8 years. Also, the research factor is important. After all, that's what we do.

That being said, go where you feel most comfortable. The happier you are, the more productive you can be. Good luck with your decisions! I am sure you will do well regardless!

 

[meowkat444]

i think if you're ok with the limited-to-certain-housing situation in nyc, then it's a much better place to be. what a great part of nyc, you know? ann arbor is a nice college town but this is a big chunk of our lives, you know?

are you fairly certain you want to do immunology? if so then this may be a no-brainer... but what would you do about the fellowship?

 

[Kraazy]

I just saw the updated list of pros and cons, and all I can think of is that I REFUSE to deal with shared bathrooms anymore. Dorm, OK. Shared baths, NO!!!!

That being said, the dorm rooms themselves are quite roomy, and I always have a great time when I visit my friends who are in med school in NYC.

 

[Picklesali]

I just saw the updated list of pros and cons, and all I can think of is that I REFUSE to deal with shared bathrooms anymore. Dorm, OK. Shared baths, NO!!!!

That being said, the dorm rooms themselves are quite roomy, and I always have a great time when I visit my friends who are in med school in NYC.

That may be true at some places (i know I drooled over Sinai's apartments and I hear Cornell's pretty posh) but I don't think roomy is quite the word I would use to describe the NYU shoebox. But that's really not a big issue for me - my apartment right now is super tiny and devoid of real furniture - I just think that I would have a hard time going back to shared bathrooms, and not being able to cook my own food...

 

[Dodo23]

I thought there were shared kitchens in the NYU dorms... or maybe I'm confused. 😕 (I believe Cornell's 1st year dorm has a kitchen per floor.)

 

[LunderKind]

Pickles, will you be attending the Michigan revisit? If so, I look forward to meeting you there!

 

[Picklesali]

Pickles, will you be attending the Michigan revisit? If so, I look forward to meeting you there!

Yes I will be attending.


Note: I'm less interesting and outrageous in person 🙂

 

[gbwillner]

Yes I will be attending.


Note: I'm less interesting and outrageous in person 🙂

Pickles, as someone who has just finished their residency interviews and (essentially) finished the MSTP, I thought I would share my viewpoints on this matter.

1) How set are you on immunology? If really set, then you really need to go to the program that has the best department with the most # of interesting faculty. This really needs to you top priority in choosing your training. Med school is basically the same everywhere, but the PhD can be very different. If you are sure NYU is better in this field and has better faculty, I would say go there. It is true that you could find someone in Michigan, but if not you may have to change your research focus. You may end up happy regardless you a new path, but you may be dissapointed that things don't go your way or you may end up in a bad situation trying to do a PhD in a bad environment.

2) Regarding which program is better overall: It depends. WHere do you want to do residency? If you want to be on the East Coast, NYU will get you further. Anywhere else Michigan will likely be considered a stronger program overall. Neither are bad, and this should only be considered secondary. Where is you family? It is highly possible that 8 years from now you will have kids and want to be close to you fam.

3) City/lifestyle: This is so user-specific it's not even worth mentioning. Yes, NYC is a fascinating place... but just as many people hate it as love it. I didn't really much care for it much- everything seems like a hassle there. Furthermore, you will be EXTREMELY busy during your studies and will never get to experience the city as you would have hoped. cost of living is just as important. Which would you rather have- a tiny appartment in NYC, with all its splendors, or paying mortgage on a condo/house in Ann Arbor? Again, people's opinions on this is like their A-holes. Use your best judgement, but as above, I think this should be secondary. Either place you choose will be considered "home" 5 years from now.

Good luck. Consider yourself lucky that you got accepted to two great places. I also had to make a difficult decision, and went 2 weeks over the deadline (I had the programs calling me at home daily)... but in the end it always works out.

 

[mariluz]

Dudesorette,

I think the revisit will allow you to analyze the schools better. I do have to say that Ann Arbor is an awesome town and they get a ton of theatre, dance, and special events. It's no Broadway, but it's pretty impressive to be a smallish town. -- There's the Royal Shakespeare Company, Martha Graham Co., and soooo many more that make it a habit to perform in the city.

I understand the family business. I'm having to make a similar decision - but on the positive, Ann Arbor is not too long a drive from PA!

I think Michigan is a great place to find good mentorship. I suggest talking to not just immuno people at the revisit, but people from mol.cell., physiology, biochem. - the research is amazing at Michigan, and I have always been impressed with how approachable the faculty is.

Oh ... and about the football. I'll admit, I didn't like or understand football when I went to UMich, but it's super cool to see a game in the Big House with new friends and colleagues! I think you'll have a blast where ever you go -- research, school, and life-style, both NYC and Michigan are awesome (in their unique way).

That's my two cents about Michigan. If you have any questions about Ann Arbor living, let me know, and I'll do my best to answer. I can also get you in contact with immuno grad students there if you'd like. 😳

Best of Luck with your decision!!! (and see ya' at the revisit) 😀

 

[Neuronix]

you will be EXTREMELY busy during your studies and will never get to experience the city as you would have hoped.

I've never understood or agreed with this argument. If anything I get out so often and have done so many things since I've been here I'm kind of bored with the city and its surroundings. I've had a whole weekend almost every week I've been in this program. In fact, while I'm working 60 hours a week or so trying to finish my PhD, that's probably the upper end of what I've worked (along with clincis). Many weeks are more like 30 hours a week. There's plenty of time to have a good time and I think one should take this heavily into consideration.

Now if someone has a good time in the city versus having a good time in the mountains or the beach or something, that's up to them 🙂

 

[j-weezy]

I've never understood or agreed with this argument. If anything I get out so often and have done so many things since I've been here I'm kind of bored with the city and its surroundings. I've had a whole weekend almost every week I've been in this program. In fact, while I'm working 60 hours a week or so trying to finish my PhD, that's probably the upper end of what I've worked (along with clincis). Many weeks are more like 30 hours a week. There's plenty of time to have a good time and I think one should take this heavily into consideration.

Now if someone has a good time in the city versus having a good time in the mountains or the beach or something, that's up to them 🙂

you are all over the internetz this afternoon

 

[Neuronix]

*rawr* FEAR MY MIGHTY HANGOVER! And my huge stack of dishes and laundry. Ok now I'm scared.

 

[gbwillner]

I've never understood or agreed with this argument. If anything I get out so often and have done so many things since I've been here I'm kind of bored with the city and its surroundings. I've had a whole weekend almost every week I've been in this program. In fact, while I'm working 60 hours a week or so trying to finish my PhD, that's probably the upper end of what I've worked (along with clincis). Many weeks are more like 30 hours a week. There's plenty of time to have a good time and I think one should take this heavily into consideration.

Now if someone has a good time in the city versus having a good time in the mountains or the beach or something, that's up to them 🙂

Perhaps you should consider that you have been fortunate or in a field that allows you to work 30 Hr weeks. During my PhD training I was easily putting in 60 Hr weeks- usually 10 hr days during the week and coming in at least one day of the weekend if not both days. I don't think this is abnormal for MSTPs. Sure I could have worked less, but I would have taken longer to graduate, or I would have had to drop projects.

 

[Neuronix]

Perhaps you should consider that you have been fortunate or in a field that allows you to work 30 Hr weeks.

My 30 hour weeks were mostly during medical school. I would still argue that even if I averaged 40-50 hours a week over my entire MD/PhD program, which I think is a reasonable estimate, that's like any other job. This gives you ample time to explore your surroundings.

During my PhD training I was easily putting in 60 Hr weeks- usually 10 hr days during the week and coming in at least one day of the weekend if not both days.

I'd say an average week for me has been 50-60 hours in grad school. Just ask my ex-g/f who claimed she never saw me. I tend to work 5 days a week x 12 hours a day. My problem is that my field forces to work well into the night hours almost every day so I can have no social life, but that's a separate issue.

I don't think this is abnormal for MSTPs. Sure I could have worked less, but I would have taken longer to graduate, or I would have had to drop projects.

It's not abnormal, but my point is that's still plenty of time to get out and do things! I'd much rather have some place to do cool things in with that free time I do get!

 

[gbwillner]

It's not abnormal, but my point is that's still plenty of time to get out and do things! I'd much rather have some place to do cool things in with that free time I do get!

Agreed- but I find that, having lived in 3 major cities and 1 lesser-major US city, there are ALWAYS things to do anywhere you go. The grass may seem greener elsewhere sometimes, and we tend to take for granted what we have... but really I have never been without things to do anywhere I've been. Sure, those things may change from place to place but I think generally most of the stuff we would really do will be the same. Just as I have only been to the Rodeo here once, I probably would have only made one Broadway show in NYC. But hanging out with friends, renting movies, house parties... that stuff will happen everywhere.

 

[Neuronix]

The key there is they're cities. Ann Arbor can't qualify as a city *ducking from incoming flames* I guess you have Detroit nearby! *ducking from flames a second time* If it was Houston vs. NYC I wouldn't be so boisterous 🙂

 

[j-weezy]

Although Houston doesn't have much besides shopping and the rodeo (rockets suck!)...and I'm saying that as a native Texan

 

[gbwillner]

Although Houston doesn't have much besides shopping and the rodeo (rockets suck!)...and I'm saying that as a native Texan

I'm sure that's true if you're 12.

 

[Picklesali]

I'm sure that's true if you're 12.

oh , BURN!

 

[j-weezy]

I'm sure that's true if you're 12.

haha

i hate houston

what's there to do outside of the rodeo, bars, medical center area - there's no zoning in that city!

 

[magwi11]

haha

i hate houston

what's there to do outside of the rodeo, bars, medical center area - there's no zoning in that city!

so true. I lived in Houston for a summer, and nothing could make me go back.

 

[Picklesali]

Note to posters: If there is going to be a threadjack on my very important 'what should I do for the next 7-8 years of my life' thread, it better be a much cooler topic than Houston, Texas.

That is all.

 

[Inuranic]

Note to posters: If there is going to be a threadjack on my very important 'what should I do for the next 7-8 years of my life' thread, it better be a much cooler topic than Houston, Texas.

That is all.

Fine. If Houston isn't good enough, I say we talk about how to correctly pluralize "mosquito". With an "e", or no "e"?

(I vote Michigan)

 

[OncDoc19]

I also vote Michigan.

 

[seraph524]

I also vote Michigan.

She knows what shes talking about, listen to her!

 

[Picklesali]

Fine. If Houston isn't good enough, I say we talk about how to correctly pluralize "mosquito". With an "e", or no "e"?

(I vote Michigan)

how 'bout ubiquitination vs. ubiquitylation???

 

[Inuranic]

She knows what shes talking about, listen to her!

(I think seraph meant to quote my post, not Onc's)

 

[OncDoc19]

(I think seraph meant to quote my post, not Onc's)

Why do you say that?

 

[Inuranic]

Why do you say that?

Well, he could have meant to quote you, but I thought with the excessive use of female pronouns it was aimed at me, as I mistakenly, MISTAKENLY, thought seraph was a girl.

I could be wrong, but I figured if it was a jab, I wanted to throw myself in front of it.

To avoid hijacking another thread, I vote Michigan. Again.

 

[OncDoc19]

Well, he could have meant to quote you, but I thought with the excessive use of female pronouns it was aimed at me, as I mistakenly, MISTAKENLY, thought seraph was a girl.

I could be wrong, but I figured if it was a jab, I wanted to throw myself in front of it.

To avoid hijacking another thread, I vote Michigan. Again.

Well seraph will have to comment regarding whether or not it was a jab. That being said, I am a girl so the pronoun was used correctly.

(And my thread was hijacked, so I am returning the favor here)

 

[solumanculver]

I think it may be partly in our genetic makeup, but I find it really uncomfortable to talk to someone without knowing their gender... whenever I make an assumption about someone's gender and it turns out wrong, I feel like I'm standing on my head...

By the way, Inuranic, how's MUSC coming? I'm officially out of that game, but I was in Charleston for my honeymoon and I loved it. It's got to be the most beautiful historical city in the US.

 

[Inuranic]

I think it may be partly in our genetic makeup, but I find it really uncomfortable to talk to someone without knowing their gender... whenever I make an assumption about someone's gender and it turns out wrong, I feel like I'm standing on my head...

By the way, Inuranic, how's MUSC coming? I'm officially out of that game, but I was in Charleston for my honeymoon and I loved it. It's got to be the most beautiful historical city in the US.

I'm still hanging in there, but I've pretty much decided to go elsewhere. I'm not pleased that they continually told me they hadn't made many offers yet, then I met an applicant two weeks ago who said that not only had they accepted a bunch of people, there was a revisit weekend planned for last week. Charleston is an amazing place, but its small size/cost of living limits some of my housing options/opportunities for my SO.

The gender thing throws me off too. Because I'm male, I automatically assume when I read text that the writer is male (I have no idea why I do this, but I doubt I'm the only one). I feel silly calling seraph a girl, when it's the opposite of what I'd normally do...

 

[seraph524]

lol its alright man haha

 

[Picklesali]

Someone on pre-allo just posted a map with with ratio of single women to men in a particular regions of the country and asked if anyone is using this as a selection criterion.

I can only imagine the OP was joking....however, I've added this piece of data to my pro/con list just for discussion's sake. 😀