Splenda88

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Guess what! All your biology, chemistry, biochem, genetics, physics, MCAT don't count...

What is wrong with these people?



Physician anesthesiologists exaggerate their own education/training and belittle the education/training of Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists. When the Truth Counts…Their Myths Don’t Stand Up to Reality!



Myth: Anesthesiologists have twice the education of CRNAs.

Fact:
Not healthcare education. Anesthesiologists’ healthcare education includes medical school and their anesthesiology residency (8 years). CRNAs’ healthcare education includes nursing school, critical care nursing experience, and their nurse anesthesiology program (up to 8 ½ years total).

Did you know? Prior to medical school, anesthesiologists attain a four-year nonhealthcare undergraduate degree impressively labeled “pre-med.” However, this bachelor’s degree is a four-year nonhealthcare degree that does not prepare them to be an anesthesia provider. After graduation, both anesthesiologists and CRNAs can pursue additional years of education in their specialty, such as through fellowships.
 
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Goro

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Guess what! All your biology, chemistry, biochem, genetics, physics, MCAT don't count...

What is wrong with these people?



Physician anesthesiologists exaggerate their own education/training and belittle the education/training of Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists. When the Truth Counts…Their Myths Don’t Stand Up to Reality!



Myth: Anesthesiologists have twice the education of CRNAs.

Fact:
Not healthcare education. Anesthesiologists’ healthcare education includes medical school and their anesthesiology residency (8 years). CRNAs’ healthcare education includes nursing school, critical care nursing experience, and their nurse anesthesiology program (up to 8 ½ years total).

Did you know? Prior to medical school, anesthesiologists attain a four-year nonhealthcare undergraduate degree impressively labeled “pre-med.” However, this bachelor’s degree is a four-year nonhealthcare degree that does not prepare them to be an anesthesia provider. After graduation, both anesthesiologists and CRNAs can pursue additional years of education in their specialty, such as through fellowships.
Have I stumbled into a QAnon thread???
 
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MICKY MANTLE

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I guess if CRNAs say it loud enough, they assume people will believe it.....They are totally delusional.
 
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anesthesia resident doing 70hrs/week for 4 years alone comes out to 14500 clinical hours LMAO (not including medical school or potential fellowship)
CRNA prereqs must not include any math courses rip...
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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The way these organizations try to obfuscate the differences in education should be illegal. It really is false advertising.

Please tell me how an RN program prepares you to be a nurse anesthetist more than premed prereq courses prepare you to be a physician.
 
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Lawpy

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Guess what! All your biology, chemistry, biochem, genetics, physics, MCAT don't count...

What is wrong with these people?



Physician anesthesiologists exaggerate their own education/training and belittle the education/training of Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists. When the Truth Counts…Their Myths Don’t Stand Up to Reality!



Myth: Anesthesiologists have twice the education of CRNAs.

Fact:
Not healthcare education. Anesthesiologists’ healthcare education includes medical school and their anesthesiology residency (8 years). CRNAs’ healthcare education includes nursing school, critical care nursing experience, and their nurse anesthesiology program (up to 8 ½ years total).

Did you know? Prior to medical school, anesthesiologists attain a four-year nonhealthcare undergraduate degree impressively labeled “pre-med.” However, this bachelor’s degree is a four-year nonhealthcare degree that does not prepare them to be an anesthesia provider. After graduation, both anesthesiologists and CRNAs can pursue additional years of education in their specialty, such as through fellowships.

Geez midlevels are really going all out with spreading fake news and disinformation... with full support from states. We need to fight back but so many attendings are so busy looking out for themselves only and actively prioritizing midlevels and throwing colleagues/trainees under the bus. Plus all the dumb specialty wars and infighting when we're supposed to be more friendly and collaborative. The profession is so adversarial that midlevels know and create a united front to get what they want
 
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D P356

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Yeah, they may not want to say this too loudly or their srna training sites will decrease.

The “We are the answer” campaign appears to have bitten them in the behind.

This is not isolated to anesthesiology.
 

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Guess what! All your biology, chemistry, biochem, genetics, physics, MCAT don't count...

What is wrong with these people?

[/URL]


Physician anesthesiologists exaggerate their own education/training and belittle the education/training of Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists. When the Truth Counts…Their Myths Don’t Stand Up to Reality!



Myth: Anesthesiologists have twice the education of CRNAs.

Fact:
Not healthcare education. Anesthesiologists’ healthcare education includes medical school and their anesthesiology residency (8 years). CRNAs’ healthcare education includes nursing school, critical care nursing experience, and their nurse anesthesiology program (up to 8 ½ years total).

Did you know? Prior to medical school, anesthesiologists attain a four-year nonhealthcare undergraduate degree impressively labeled “pre-med.” However, this bachelor’s degree is a four-year nonhealthcare degree that does not prepare them to be an anesthesia provider. After graduation, both anesthesiologists and CRNAs can pursue additional years of education in their specialty, such as through fellowships.
 

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Prehealth1011

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Doctor of Physician Assistant
Nurse Anesthesiologist

Whats next. Nurse Pediatrician, Nurse internist, Nurse Cardiologist?
 

Chibucks15

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Unfortunately they're lobbying a bunch of people who know nothing about the training and just see dollar signs. But its shortsighted. If and when they do get more independent practice, they will be forced to take on actual liability, and will get sued out the ass repeatedly by lawyers who will be salivating to target these midlevels even moreso than docs. Which will lead to bad press for hospitals, bad press for the profession, and eventually the highest they will be able to achieve is chiropractor-level BS focusing on "holistic" medicine
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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Unfortunately they're lobbying a bunch of people who know nothing about the training and just see dollar signs. But its shortsighted. If and when they do get more independent practice, they will be forced to take on actual liability, and will get sued out the ass repeatedly by lawyers who will be salivating to target these midlevels even moreso than docs. Which will lead to bad press for hospitals, bad press for the profession, and eventually the highest they will be able to achieve is chiropractor-level BS focusing on "holistic" medicine

The data already show that hospitals are willing to take on the liability because it’s cheaper for them to use midlevels and absorb their liability than to pay physicians.
 
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Chibucks15

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The data already show that hospitals are willing to take on the liability because it’s cheaper for them to use midlevels and absorb their liability than to pay physicians.
I guess I was meaning more towards public perception. If word gets out on the same level as the waryness of chiros a large chunk of the population will get into the "they don't even use REAL doctors!" mindset. Sure there will be lots of people who don't buy in I just don't see this as a long term threat.

Then again I'm always kinda a "pendulum" kind of thinker. Things will continue to get weird, hit a breaking point when everyone realizes how stupid it is, then will swing back the other way, eventually overcorrect, then so on and so on. Politicians and people in charge never know when the middle ground is.

Also, in many places midlevels are used correctly so I'm wondering how much of this is very region specific. But i digress. Unless we all actually bind together and do something there really isn't a change on the horizon
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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I guess I was meaning more towards public perception. If word gets out on the same level as the waryness of chiros a large chunk of the population will get into the "they don't even use REAL doctors!" mindset. Sure there will be lots of people who don't buy in I just don't see this as a long term threat.

Then again I'm always kinda a "pendulum" kind of thinker. Things will continue to get weird, hit a breaking point when everyone realizes how stupid it is, then will swing back the other way, eventually overcorrect, then so on and so on. Politicians and people in charge never know when the middle ground is.

Also, in many places midlevels are used correctly so I'm wondering how much of this is very region specific. But i digress. Unless we all actually bind together and do something there really isn't a change on the horizon

I don’t know where you’re at, but the vast majority of people I’ve encountered including patients think chiros are great. Midlevels are already mismanaging and harming people in over two dozen states and no one is throwing a fuss.
 
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Lawpy

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I don’t know where you’re at, but the vast majority of people I’ve encountered including patients think chiros are great. Midlevels are already mismanaging and harming people in over two dozen states and no one is throwing a fuss.
How likely will chiros be directly competing with midlevels in future?
 

Redpancreas

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Let me just jump in here to say I think chiropractor creep is ridiculous. The people are trained to do back manuevers and now all of a sudden I see YouTube videos where they're discussing nutrition, COVID-19, immunology, etc.
 
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Maimonides1

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While Patients are getting brainwashed to accept “Midlevels” at a mass scale in these fast access primary care sittings..,
I predict in due time, the real doctors “Physicians“ will be eventually a rare breed limited to complex care at hospitals, academic institutions and concierge practices at a premium prices !!
 
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Splenda88

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'Physician anesthesiologists'​

Is there such a thing? Shouldn't anesthesiologists be enough for everyone to know they are talking about physicians. Oh! I forgot. There are "certified nurse anesthesiologists" now.

 
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drducky.

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“By 2025, all anesthesia graduates will earn doctorate degrees”

looks like they don’t want to even be called CRNA anymore, it’s doctor anesthesiologist now
 
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Gonzalo de Montalvo

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Not to hijack this thread, but I've had a longstanding question that has to do with this topic, so...

Is Physician's for Patient Protection (PPP) legit or are they kinda predatory or unprofessional? I think they're heavily dependent on anecdotes. And obviously their mission is agreeable but I wouldn't want to get behind an organization that isn't going to make physicians look good when debating things like this by just disparaging other professions. Their membership is free for med students but are there any attendings/residents who pay for membership?
 

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Where is the "midlevels r great" crew at?

Legit though, that is some serious lying/propaganda. Speechless.
Reporting in. Midlevels are great. Independent practice is not. Whoever wrote this article is a clown.

kthnx bye Felicia
 
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doyouhaveaflag

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I usually try to stay out of these midlevel posts, but I heard a conversation yesterday that was just appalling and I have to share:

Nurse student to NP: "Should I put in my charting that this patient's low hemoglobin is due to anemia?"
NP: "No, anemia is due to low fluids, you know, hypovolemia, after surgery and things like that"

I'm sure that this particular NP is an exception and others understand concepts like anemia and hypovolemia, but DANG.
 

Splenda88

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I usually try to stay out of these midlevel posts, but I heard a conversation yesterday that was just appalling and I have to share:

Nurse student to NP: "Should I put in my charting that this patient's low hemoglobin is due to anemia?"
NP: "No, anemia is due to low fluids, you know, hypovolemia, after surgery and things like that"

I'm sure that this particular NP is an exception and others understand concepts like anemia and hypovolemia, but DANG.
You would be surprised...
 

Splenda88

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Its funny, the 2 NPs we have at this office come to me all the time complaining about how stupid other NPs are when they have to deal with them.
Some of them are aware that their profession is going to the tube if they continue on the tract they are in. Online program everywhere with no admission standards and 500 hrs preceptorship requirement for graduation.
 
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Ho0v-man

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Some of them are aware that their profession is going to the tube if they continue on the tract they are in. Online program everywhere with no admission standards and 500 hrs preceptorship requirement for graduation.
I enjoy when NPs say they went to a “brick and mortar” school. So the bar is that your school actually exists in the physical world? It’s a flex that your school exists? Is that really where we’re at right now lol?
 
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Splenda88

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I enjoy when NPs say they went to a “brick and mortar” school. So the bar is that your school actually exists in the physical world? It’s a flex that your school exists? Is that really where we’re at right now lol?
That is exactly where we at.

I know it's controversial here... I am ok for states to provide AP licenses to med school grads like they do in MO. We need to start giving them some competition.
 

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Some of them are aware that their profession is going to the tube if they continue on the tract they are in. Online program everywhere with no admission standards and 500 hrs preceptorship requirement for graduation.
They definitely realize that.

These 2 are what NPs should be. Both were RNs for 8+ years before going back to NP school. Both worked a combination of L&D and ED primarily. I don't always agree 100% with their management, but true mistakes are rare and they are surprisingly good at distinguishing truly sick from not that sick (which is to me a very important skill).
 
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Splenda88

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They definitely realize that.

These 2 are what NPs should be. Both were RNs for 8+ years before going back to NP school. Both worked a combination of L&D and ED primarily. I don't always agree 100% with their management, but true mistakes are rare and they are surprisingly good at distinguishing truly sick from not that sick (which is to me a very important skill).
They probably did it the right way... got some experience as a RN first and attended a good school who did not put the burden on them to find their own preceptors
 

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Where is the "midlevels r great" crew at?

Legit though, that is some serious lying/propaganda. Speechless.

I think you're maybe referring to me or @Lem0nz . I'll speak for myself and say it's proposterous but this is an entirely different issue than NP/PAs splitting lists with a hospitalist to manage less complex patients and report back to the hospitalist who ultimately gets final say with every order that is placed.

I think the biggest lie is lining up nursing school with medical school because they're both one is an undergraduate degree and the other is a doctorate. I will say though that I wish medical school allowed for earlier clinical integration so M3s are more useful in the hospital but that has nothing to do with this argument.
 
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Steve_Zissou

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I think you're maybe referring to me or @Lem0nz . I'll speak for myself and say it's proposterous but this is an entirely different issue than NP/PAs splitting lists with a hospitalist to manage less complex patients and report back to the hospitalist who ultimately gets final say with every order that is placed.

I think the biggest lie is lining up nursing school with medical school because they're both essentially undergraduate degrees. I will say though that I wish medical school allowed for earlier clinical integration so M3s are more useful in the hospital but that has nothing to do with this argument.
It’s preposterous, yet it’s the byproduct (partially) of physicians pushing for more midlevels and handing off bread and butter procedures/cases to midlevels. You give an inch...

It’s also an issue of being overseen by the nursing boards and not the medical boards, even though they’re trying to practice medicine-light, but that’s a different discussion.
 
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