OHIO Programs

[osufan]

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[fakin' the funk]

I know that match lists are due in 2 days, but I figured I may as well ask people on this forum to comment on the various Ohio programs. Aside from Cleveland Clinic, is there much difference between the rest? Any good or bad things about UCinci, OSU, Case-UH, Case-Metro I should know about.

I would say probably Case-UH and OSU are pretty similar. Big tertiary academic medical centers with solid anesthesia programs. I can say that the residents at Case-UH were probably the happiest I've seen anywhere.

Case-Metro is, as the name suggests, a residency run out of a county hospital. Yikes.

Cincy is equally small as Case-Metro but with a smattering of attendings from Harvard somewheres bringing a more academic, critical care feel.

CCF, well...we all have heard everything there is to know about it. It's a 30-resident/yr program that takes a lot of FMGs at a hospital that is more of a marketing enterprise than an educational institution.

 

[y2janitor]

I thought osu had some of the coolest/happiest residents. Columbus is easily the most fun city in Ohio. I would rank them high except I'm trying to get out of Ohio.

 

[CrazyJake]

Case-UH - best program overall

CCF - most well known, but as aforementioned..a factory.

 

[bigdan]

Funk et al:

We gotta get rid of this "CCF takes FMG's" thing. Well - they do take FMGs, but it's not a "we can't fill our class without FMGs thing", it's a "we strengthen our class with FMGs" thing. And as a disclaimer, I rotated there in the SICU, and will rank them 6 or 7th out of 13 programs.

I rotated there with some of the FMGs that folks complain about - let me tell you - they were good, and damn good. One of the CA3s that I worked with was a full professor in ICU/anesthesia in Colombia...he was INCREDIBLE. Another was a CA1 who spent 12 years working in Brazil as an attending anesthesiologist. These guys are NOT the FMGs that fill IM or FM spots for unwanted residencies; these are fully functional anesthesiologists in other countries that come to the USA to refine skills. Maybe some of the CCF residents will chime in, but from what I saw, the FMGs were assets and not liabilities.

Additionally, they somehow learn something. I'm not so sure about the general OR didactics, but the ICU teaching is DAILY thru rounds or lecture, and I know they have full reading days on OB. The residents are impressive as senior residents.

dc

 

[HalO'Thane]

I am currently a CA-3 at Ohio State University who couldn't be happier. This is the only program in Ohio that I ranked, with no regrets. The clinical training you receive here is second to none. We are the only large academic hospital in central Ohio so the variety and types of cases we get on a routine basis is huge. Most of our residents have more than surpassed their case requirements by the end of their CA-2 year, which allows A LOT of time for electives and/or research our CA-3 year, including some new awesome rotations in regional, TEE, and ambulatory surgery. The knock against us in the past has been that didactics has been weak. While we don't have spoon fed lectures every day the way that some programs might; didactics, in my opionion, are pretty overrated. Ultimately I feel that what you need is time to read, which I feel that we have. Finally, Columbus is a great place to live. Our program has the full spectrum of those with families and small children living comfortably on a residents salary to single people that live and go out downtown. Columbus has a large young professional population that extends beyond the university, so the night life is never dull. While I can't comment much on the other programs in Ohio since I don't go to them, I've been very happy with the training I have received at OSU.

 

[amyl]

the fmgs at ccf are not liabilities at all. they score better on the boards, have more clinical knowledge as many of them are at least part way through residency if not practicing anesthesiologists, etc. those that aren't have had to come here to do extensive research in anesthesiology to be considered for a position usually.
ccf is far from a factory. i have never felt like a number. ridiculous. ridiculous.
it may not be the place for you if you need or want your hand held. its not the place for you if you want to go home by 3. its not the place for you if you think you will learn anesthesia from a book. but if you want to see everything, and i do mean everything and take the cases that no one else will and walk out of residency knowing your s*** then it might be the place for you. it was for me 'cause i am not afraid of hard work, have no problem standing out in a crowd and wanted to be as well trained as possible so i feel prepared too and will be able to handle anything in private practice or have the best chance to get into one of the best cardiac or pain fellowships in the country.

my residency class has 20 people. for me size was a benefit not a detriment, if there is someone you can't stand (which there always is) it is much easier to avoid them in a big program. one place i rotated had a resident that no one could stand but it was a small program and they all had to work with her on a daily basis even though she was horrible and likely dangerous.

my department strongly emphasizes education, no one gets a bigger book stipend or carte blanche for meetings where we present, etc like we do at ccf. we get an academic month as ca-3s where we just study for boards and do one lecture for the interns. there is a lot of emphasis on education here, you have been misinformed.

 

[fakin' the funk]

ccf is far from a factory.

The rest of your post is well taken.

But...c'mon. What's next, "Cleveland is far from cloudy?"

 

[narcusprince]

Amyl I guess I can take the ball now. CCF is by far a great program. Let me further redirate about the FMG thing. The FMG's that come to the clinic are top physicians in their own country. Their knowledge, willingness to teach others, and work ethic go far. As for the intern year it is possibly one of the best in the country. I have done 2 months of anesthesia and been one on one for a full month. As other CA-1's can attest, you can read about anesthesia but once you see patients and run cases your reading and retention change. Also, the intern year has a lot of cush months so that you CAN get a lot of reading done. The hybrid model of teaching IE allowing interns to rotate in full months of anesthesia is a good system and I bet those that have done their OR months will score better having done those months. Also didactics are good we have protected lecture time one day a week. This is a great hardworking program. As for Cleveland the weather sucks, the winters are harsh the summers are nice. I also have the motto that residency is only a short time in life I focused more on the training and less on location remember you only have one shot at residency might as well be busy and have the caseload.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Funk et al:

We gotta get rid of this "CCF takes FMG's" thing.

How can you get rid of it? As you said - it's a fact! - CCF takes FMGs.

If you look at the resident lists of the various other "top" programs, in which class CCF aspires (and is sometimes said around here) to be, there are few to no FMGs...and certainly not one-third of the class every year.

AFAIK no one has ever addressed why CCF takes so many FMGs. Is it because the longtime former chair was Egyptian? Is it because many of the attendings are themselves FMGs? Is it because they might have trouble filling w/ AMGs due to location in Cleveland?

But...that's beside the point. Whether it bothers you or not, or reflects on the program or institution or not, facts are facts. CCF takes FMGs, as I said in my initial mention of it in this thread, and it is a big residency at a monstrously large, highly profitable hospital. Make of that what you will.

 

[narcusprince]

Also, if you look at the cycle that you and 99% of American medical grads are applying for which is a July start. The CCF exclusively takes 100% AMG's through the match so the FMG's are not in the same application pool.

 

[bigdan]

Funk -

Okay, okay. Point taken. CCF obviously DOES take FMGs. I guess I meant that they're not taking FMGs because they can't fill their classes otherwise...I should have articulated my point better.

I just think that it's short sighted to write off CCF as "one of those places that can't get AMGs"; on the contrary I find that it is a benefit. Again, from what I saw from the foreigners when I was there for a month - these guys were good!

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

dc

 

[amyl]

actually the january class is specifically for fmgs or less commonly for people that are switching from other specialities. there is not a "quota" for the january class...they don't take more than 10 but sometimes they take less, depends on the quality of applicants..these are outside the match positions. its a vehicle to get qualified people, often anesthesiologists in their own country or those super dedicated to research,
or the occasional person who leaves another specialty, in. this is a representation of the diversity that ccf (and not just the anesthesia program) embraces. the vibe is also evident in their lack of prejudice against DOs. the program and hospital want good people, they don't care if they are amgs, fmgs, DOs, etc. they just want good people. the diversity is a positive. i don't even know if they take amgs or DOs in the january class unless they have left another specialty.... i don't know of one thats here now that just didn't match in july and comes to the january class. i don't think that that is what they are looking for in the january class at all.

winters in cleveland suck. its not as bad as chicago or michigan but its not good either.

also, i respectively say bull**** to the notion that case-uh is the best program in cleveland...no way. not unless you judge a program based on what time you go home

 

[bobg504]

actually the january class is specifically for fmgs or less commonly for people that are switching from other specialities. there is not a "quota" for the january class...they don't take more than 10 but sometimes they take less, depends on the quality of applicants..these are outside the match positions. its a vehicle to get qualified people, often anesthesiologists in their own country or those super dedicated to research,
or the occasional person who leaves another specialty, in. this is a representation of the diversity that ccf (and not just the anesthesia program) embraces. the vibe is also evident in their lack of prejudice against DOs. the program and hospital want good people, they don't care if they are amgs, fmgs, DOs, etc. they just want good people. the diversity is a positive. i don't even know if they take amgs or DOs in the january class unless they have left another specialty.... i don't know of one thats here now that just didn't match in july and comes to the january class. i don't think that that is what they are looking for in the january class at all.

winters in cleveland suck. its not as bad as chicago or michigan but its not good either.

also, i respectively say bull**** to the notion that case-uh is the best program in cleveland...no way. not unless you judge a program based on what time you go home

I understand you wanting to defend your program and totally respect your right to do so, but the bottom line is that the "best" will always be subjective. Some will think CCF is great and some will think Case-UH is the best. Be happy that you are where you want to be 🙂

 

[amyl]

I understand you wanting to defend your program and totally respect your right to do so, but the bottom line is that the "best" will always be subjective. Some will think CCF is great and some will think Case-UH is the best. Be happy that you are where you want to be 🙂

i respectfully completely disagree. i don't think that there is any comparision whatsoever in the clinical experience. just one example: i did more regional as an intern than seniors do at other programs, other supposedly well respected programs. ccf may not be perfect but the clinical experience is second to NONE.

 

[bobg504]

i respectfully completely disagree. i don't think that there is any comparision whatsoever in the clinical experience. just one example: i did more regional as an intern than seniors do at other programs, other supposedly well respected programs. ccf may not be perfect but the clinical experience is second to NONE.

CCF's clinical experience IS second to SOME (in terms of both name recognition, case load, and anesthesia research) whether or not you choose to believe it. It's ok to love your program, but be able to expound on both the positives and negatives to perspective applicants. No program is perfect no matter how you slice it.

 

[Buckeye Anes]

i respectfully completely disagree. i don't think that there is any comparision whatsoever in the clinical experience. just one example: i did more regional as an intern than seniors do at other programs, other supposedly well respected programs. ccf may not be perfect but the clinical experience is second to NONE.

Again maybe you should wait till you are a little further along in your training before you make statements like these. You will find things at almost any program that are "better" than "at other programs" and that includes CCF.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

Buckeye Anes:

Just read your tag:
"Clear fluid refers to fluid you can see through such as water, Pedialyte, apple juice and clear broth. Although alcohol is a clear fluid it should not be permitted in pediatric patients." Anesthesia: A Comprehensive Review Hall & Chantigian

I always laugh when I get to that question in Hall.

To the OP, getting back to your original question, and ignoring all the cheerleading and/or bitching about CCF, how'd you end up ranking the ohio programs? Wish I would have read this sooner, since I am a CA-3 at one of these institutions.

 

[osufan]

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[Bertelman]

so i didnt intend this thread to be a discussion about CCF, but about the OTHER programs in Ohio. Anyways, with other non ohio programs inbetween, i ranked my Ohio programs OSU>Case-UH>CCF>UCinci

Thanks to all those who posted. Best of luck to all 4th years!

So apparently CCF is second (or third) to SOME.

 

[fakin' the funk]

So apparently CCF is second (or third) to SOME.

They should put this on the ?$&#ing huge CCF ads everywhere in Cleveland/Ohio.

 

[AK_MD2BE]

They should put this on the ?$&#ing huge CCF ads everywhere in Cleveland/Ohio.

Two things:
1. Funk...why some anger towards CCF? What did they ever do to you? Just curious.

2. Many people have VERY strong feelings about CCF (some for, many against). Can anyone give some more information about OSU, Cincinnati and Case? Thanks. 🙂

 

[fakin' the funk]

Two things:
1. Funk...why some anger towards CCF? What did they ever do to you? Just curious.

I thought the actually conveyed a lack of anger...🙄

As you can see I was commenting on the ?$&#ing huge CCF ads everywhere in Cleveland/Ohio and how it would be ironic if they said "CCF is second (or third) to SOME" instead of "World Class Care" or whathaveyou.

See?...joke.

 

[AK_MD2BE]

Bump...I am hoping that someone can provide some more information about Ohio State and Case Western (and CCF..although that program seems to yield very strong opinions). Thanks for your time and knowledge. 🙂

 

[StanleyCup7]

Bump...I am looking to do residency in the Michigan/Ohio part of the country. Can anybody provide any information about any of these programs (especially U of M, Case, OSU)?
Thanks...😀

 

[yowhatup]

i thought there is also a residency program at University of Toledo Medical Center?

 

[narcusprince]

If your interested in CCF PM me.