OK I seriously wanted to know this....

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civic4982 said:
what medical schools do that? :confused:

since this thread has strayed 15 pages beyond what i originally asked i can't believe anyone is even quoting anything i said....

anyway no med school says that; it's the students who attend that do...much like some of the students on sdn :p

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i do not understand why evolutionists keep insisting that creationists do not believe in science; the two are not mutually exclusive
 
Psycho Doctor said:
i do not understand why evolutionists keep insisting that creationists do not believe in science; the two are not mutually exclusive

I agree though I'm not a creationist... I'm a "I don't give a flying @#%$"-ist :D
 
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Psycho,

I think I recall that you're a GA applicant. Why not go to MCG? It seems to be a really good school (albeit a state school) and much cheaper than the other schools you listed. I'm only suggesting it because I come from the Bible Belt and went to NYU for undergrad primarily to get out of the conservative/fundamentalist atmosphere. It's just not me. Anyway, I didn't meet many devout Christians there, or at any of the other Northeastern schools. That was a breath of fresh air for half-Jewish me. I guess I did meet a few Catholics that attended mass...but it never seemed to be a part of their lives in the way it was for people I grew up around in Central FL (i.e. youth group, going to church at strange times like Wednesday night). One lesson I learned from NYU-- paying that much in tuition to live in a cool city with liberal students is only worth it if someone else is paying. Since I'm footing the bill for my med school education, I will choose the cheaper route and still get a great education, even if I have to live deep in the Bible Belt.
 
sumfratrisamor, my whole point was that evolution does not have all the answers but is yet the best explanation for the orgin of species. Though there are details missing, there are no significant theoretical flaws in the theory, despite the best efforts of naysayers to invent them. Every major theoretical criticism of evolution has been responded to a number of times by the experts in the field. I'm happy to debate them with you, but both of us would be better served by doing our own reading.

In any case, I (and I imagine you too) believe strongly in a great many things that are yet unexplained in full. I fully believe in nuclear power, though I have only an inkling of a reactor actually functions. The reason- because I see the results. Similarly, I don't understand how most drugs work mechanistically but I am confident in their abilities just the same. In fact, most psychotropic drugs were used decades before their modes of action were discovered.

For me, evolution is no different. I fully acknowledge (unlike thost commited to badmouthing religion) that evolution is not a field yet ready to be relegated to the annals of history. There is significant work to be done archeologically so that we may continue to build the already convincing evidence for the process, not to mention my personal need to read up and become educated.

However, just like with nuclear power and pharmacology, the fact that I personally cannot explain all points of a phenomenally complex scientific process doesn't make me suspicious of it. This is why I am always frustrated by the arguments I often see in creationist literature which begin "It is unclear to me how...." or "It seems highly unlikely that... " Just because you or I cannot explain a topic in full does not mean an explanation need come from above.
 
jhugti said:
sumfratrisamor, my whole point was that evolution does not have all the answers but is yet the best explanation for the orgin of species.

This is where I disagree with you. Evolution is not the best explanation for the origin of species; Creation is.

Science generally supports my opinion.


jhugti said:
Though there are details missing, there are no significant theoretical flaws in the theory, despite the best efforts of naysayers to invent them.

There are no theoretical flaws in the theory. The theory itself is one big flaw, shot down by science.


jhugti said:
Every major theoretical criticism of evolution has been responded to a number of times by the experts in the field.

Has been responded to maybe, just not well enough.


jhugti said:
I'm happy to debate them with you, but both of us would be better served by doing our own reading.

I completely agree with you. I do not think it would be beneficial in any way to get involved in a debate about this.


jhugti said:
In any case, I (and I imagine you too) believe strongly in a great many things that are yet unexplained in full. I fully believe in nuclear power, though I have only an inkling of a reactor actually functions. The reason- because I see the results. Similarly, I don't understand how most drugs work mechanistically but I am confident in their abilities just the same. In fact, most psychotropic drugs were used decades before their modes of action were discovered.

For me, evolution is no different. I fully acknowledge (unlike thost commited to badmouthing religion) that evolution is not a field yet ready to be relegated to the annals of history. There is significant work to be done archeologically so that we may continue to build the already convincing evidence for the process, not to mention my personal need to read up and become educated.

However, just like with nuclear power and pharmacology, the fact that I personally cannot explain all points of a phenomenally complex scientific process doesn't make me suspicious of it. This is why I am always frustrated by the arguments I often see in creationist literature which begin "It is unclear to me how...." or "It seems highly unlikely that... " Just because you or I cannot explain a topic in full does not mean an explanation need come from above.

Yes, there are little things I see in both evolution and creationism that I personally cannot explain either, but that doesn't make me suspicious of them.

One problem I see is that evolution is being taught as fact when it is clearly opinion, while creation is being taught as myth when it has even more scientific backing than evolution does.
 
sumfratrisamor said:
One problem I see is that evolution is being taught as fact when it is clearly opinion, while creation is being taught as myth when it has even more scientific backing than evolution does.

Then I guess what they say is true...people see what they want to see.
 
Is this thread seriously still going?
 
This thread is a complete train wreck.

SocialistMD, I absolutely love your sig. Reminds me a little of the standard postscript to fortune cookies: "...in bed." Works every time.
 
patzan said:
Is this thread seriously still going?

Totally agree...I wish the mods would just close it. :sleep:
 
ajt2003 said:
Totally agree...I wish the mods would just close it. :sleep:
They always close the DO bashing threads before I have a chance to chime in with all my mad USMLE statistics. Why can we argue about creationism and evolution in pre-allo, but we can't argue DO vs. MD?
 
sumfratrisamor said:
This is where I disagree with you. Evolution is not the best explanation for the origin of species; Creation is. Science generally supports my opinion. The theory [of evolution] itself is one big flaw, shot down by science.

I think maybe you should get back to making love to your brother. And stop speaking for science, who by the way thinks you are a total '**** and wants you to stop dropping its name.
 
Reckoning said:
I think maybe you should get back to making love to your brother. And stop speaking for science, who by the way thinks you are a total '**** and wants you to stop dropping its name.

I love your translation.
 
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wow...im only a 2nd yr pre-med so most of what y'all are sayin about med school acceptances etc etc is new to me. But I'm shocked to see that such selfless minded people who are aspiring to and are becoming physicians would find it necessary to segregate against someone based on their beliefs. I am a Christian and I am extremely proud to be one, however, that does not mean I am going to force my beliefs on my <crosses fingers, hopefully> patients in the future. I will treat them because I have compassion for them. As for my colleagues I would hope they treat me with the same respect I grant their beliefs, even if I do disagree with them. Honestly everyone, if I subscribe to evolution and the such to fulfill my classes and don't let my religion affect my work then where am I going wrong. This may be a tangent but I just had to get it out.
 
patzan said:
Is this thread seriously still going?

I think it is unfair to bash this thread. Seriously, there are threads out there on life-changing books and polls on preferred soda (regular or diet?). I think a discussion of evolution vs. creation by God is a relevant one for those interested in pursuing careers in the biomedical sciences. You guys are just attacking it because your arguments have flopped and come to nil.

Face it, you guys can't really explain convergent structures, missing links, the fact that despite the "3 billion years" that have "passed" - that is still insufficient time for random mutations to generate the diversity and complexity that we see; not to mention the fine tuning of the PHYSICAL constants (we are not talking about biological examples and mutations, we are talking about proton charge, fine structure constant, etc.), is perfectly set for life as we know it - the earth is *just* so far away from the sun to enable life as we know it, etc.

And those who start blabbing about multiple worlds and universes need to get off the 'shrooms - you've got more babbling faith in you than the most ardent creationist. Believing in God is "unscientific," yet believing in multiple universes/parallel universes for which we have NO evidence is very scientific.

Feh....
 
liverotcod said:
SocialistMD, I absolutely love your sig. Reminds me a little of the standard postscript to fortune cookies: "...in bed." Works every time.

Thanks. I can't remember where I found it. I like your buff histone. It makes me laugh. :)
 
mercaptovizadeh said:
I think it takes a lot of arrogance....and impudence ... to put such a LIE on webpage! You are WELL aware that Newtonian mechanics, even with it's errors w/ respect to relativity and quantum mechanics, is infinitely more airtight and self-consistent than that evolution bogus bs that's peddled. Btw, when it's problems cropped up, physicists established NEW theories, didn't try to patch up that old beaten up piece of junk theory - like Gould's punctuated equilibrium to explain away the lack of missing links...

Uhh, I say it, and state it again, evolution and the origins of life are NOT a subjective topic. My main beef with creationism is that it is not falsifiable. Any other scientific theory can be disproven. Creationism cannot be, which indicates that it does NOT belong in a science classroom.
 
Attentive said:
Sorry if I'm misreading prior posts(former Christian, now hopeful agnostic) but I thought the discussion was about religion jumping into science classrooms(ID), portraying itself as science, causing a backlash of science needing to contradict religion to keep it out. So there is a need to see science as contradicting religion to keep it out of a 'science' classroom.

Personally, my main problem with ID is that people on this thread seem to associate religion with Christianity alone, hence ID is by Judeo-Christian-Islamic God only. I'm curious as to what people who advocate ID would say to then attributing the 'intelligence' part of of ID to the Raelian's aliens, Greek/Roman Gods, Hindu Gods, etc.

Exactly... the reason intelligent design is even an issue - both in this forum and in this country - is that creationists want creationism to accompany or even supplant the teaching of evolution in science classrooms. If creationists wanted to keep creationism a religious belief, then there'd be no discussion.
If my next door neighbor was a literalist Greco-Roman pagan revivalist, who believed that Zeus was really creating thunderstorms, I wouldn't try to contradict him. But as soon as he says he wants his "theory" to be taught in a science classroom, in addition to or instead of meteorology, then I'd have a problem. Come to think of it, this meteorology analogy is a good one. There are plenty of things in meteorology that have yet to be explained (otherwise weathermen would be better able to predict or even control weather). But that doesn't mean that current meteorology is all bogus, or that we need to completely abandon the scientific method and say Zeus did it all.
 
ajt2003 said:
Totally agree...I wish the mods would just close it. :sleep:

Yeah, I think this thread should be closed too. Whatever our beliefs of the origin of the universe are won't make much difference for med school.
 
leechy said:
Uhh, I say it, and state it again, evolution and the origins of life are NOT a subjective topic. My main beef with creationism is that it is not falsifiable. Any other scientific theory can be disproven. Creationism cannot be, which indicates that it does NOT belong in a science classroom.

There are many claims that creationism makes that are falsifiable. IF you were to falsify them, THEN creation should not be taught in a classroom.
 
You would think that the theory of evolution, disproven, invalidated, and generally contradicting modern science, should be restricted to a philosophy class, but noooooooooo... some people like to hang on to what they see as being true.
 
if you are, by any chance, a christian, I would advice you to go to the most "christian un-friendly" school and tell your friends the good news. aite?
 
oh and for other posters..

i think we all shouldnt get worked up over this kinda thread, because we are supposed to be tolerant right? even tolerant of those who are not tolerant..that's...unconditional tolerance..i guess..
 
To sit here and argue over creationism and evolution is just a waste of time. each one belongs in a different discipline but do overlap somewhat. Religion is about asking why, Science is about asking how. I believe that God created the material needed to start this big crapshoot we call life and threw in a few catalysts over time (from very, very early to maybe yesterday) to help people or put up tests..who knows.

Science need not be about rejecting god, nor embracing god. Anyone who tries to "prove" god does or does not exist is wasting there time.

For the record I am a practicing catholic evolutionist.. :D

dxu
 
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