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OK, kids....thoughts?
Started by Goro
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still baffled @ how using the word bikini in conjunction with the word swimwear is sexist
Lulz at people who resort to blocking those they disagree with. Actually, probably not that funny that we can’t agree to disagree without resorting to such pettiness.
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I feel like people have a double standard of “doctors are people with lives outside of medicine who should post what they want!” and then saying “they should know not to post things on social media because that stuff lives forever” when someone faces consequences for social media posts. Also, I don’t think retraction should be used except when an article is fraudulent/otherwise grossly inaccurate in its data or presentation (like doctored images, fake data, misreported results that change conclusions, etc)—if an article is simply controversial or problematic in its operational definitions or interpretations (like this one), let discussion occur in the literature.
Some of the “doctors” posting pictures in solidarity (one that was featured in the HuffPost article about this), have Twitter pages filled with explicit sexual material—like nude self pictures and clips of themselves engaging in... certain acts.
Can we at least agree that does not shine well for the profession?
Can we at least agree that does not shine well for the profession?
That paper was badly designed and had a lot of severe problems with its methodology. The fact it got published shows massive problems with the journal and its peer review system
I’ve done a lot of peer review, published a lot of articles, and read a lot of articles. A lot of bad/critically flawed methodology is caught in peer review. Some of it slips through, probably more than we would like. All studies have limitations and considerable flaws because data and research are inherently imperfect—people’s tolerance for what level of limitations constitutes acceptable versus unacceptable flaws and limitations in methodology is usually directly correlated to how much they agree or disagree with the findings of the study, honestly.
Med Twitter and the subsequent media response is borderline pathetic and embarrassing as a future clinician. The article clearly states “provocative” posing in bikini/swimwear photos.
Twitter “doctors” are posting all these photos of themselves in bikinis saying “wow so unprofessional lol.” How could people so vetted and educated be so obtuse and emotionally reactive as to not take into account the word “provocative” (logically this is in contrast to non-provocative) and the word swimwear?
No one said you can’t post a bikini/swimwear pic. They suggested don’t post a provocative one.
With the head researcher redacted the paper, Twitter mobs are canceling anything that triggers them in the slightest, putting their own social media posts over the professional image and respect of possibly one of the most respected professions on earth
Twitter “doctors” are posting all these photos of themselves in bikinis saying “wow so unprofessional lol.” How could people so vetted and educated be so obtuse and emotionally reactive as to not take into account the word “provocative” (logically this is in contrast to non-provocative) and the word swimwear?
No one said you can’t post a bikini/swimwear pic. They suggested don’t post a provocative one.
With the head researcher redacted the paper, Twitter mobs are canceling anything that triggers them in the slightest, putting their own social media posts over the professional image and respect of possibly one of the most respected professions on earth
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Or it’s a realization that in america most people will react to a buzzfeed level article about a study without actually reading the source material. Calling something mansplaining isn’t an argument unless the person is saying the other party doesn’t understand because they are a woman, you are overusing the phrase
I'm glad that after half a dozen low-effort troll posts you finally decide to make your point
This thread went places
Provocative is not an objective measure. They seem to imply only women were talking such provocative photos. This implies they look at women with a different eye than men.
The whole study feels like an epic troll at this point. Titania McGrath would be proud! It would be so easy to provoke outrage on Twitter. Even funnier are those further left on the identity politics front calling out women posting up bikini photos as privileged and out of touch (which they are) for not being outraged that potentially having BLM type posts on social media may have been considered divisive and unprofessional according to the study. Are we so out of touch that we post up bikini photos from our thousand dollar phones and posh physician lifestyles, while claiming to be victims? The irony is astounding. Did we just run out of real stuff to be legitimately outraged about?
#SoBrave
#MedBikini
#SmashThePatriarchy
#Outrage
#BIPOC
#CelebrateVictimStatus
#Slacktivism
#VirtueSignaling
#SoBrave
#MedBikini
#SmashThePatriarchy
#Outrage
#BIPOC
#CelebrateVictimStatus
#Slacktivism
#VirtueSignaling
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Bikini appears once in the paper below:
“Inappropriate attire included pictures in underwear, provocative Halloween costumes, and provocative posing in bikinis/swimwear.“
They seem to imply that you shouldn’t pose provocatively in a bikini or swimwear.
Yes, they used the word bikini first in the phrase “bikini/swimwear” and swimwear sounds like a gender neutral word. Does that really mean to you that the patriarchy is alive and well and the paper is intended to oppress female doctors as another sexist maneuver by that surgical patriarchy?
If the paper had multiple references to bikinis or if the paper otherwise had a tangible written focus on bikinis, then I’d buy that argument. But, the people seemingly most trained in objective rational analysis are blinded by their own knee-jerk emotional outrage to the fact that “bikini” appears once phrased as “bikini/swimwear” and qualified by “provocative posing.”
Not saying that there isnt room for improvement. Yes, the authors could have used the phrase “male and female swimwear” or “swim trunks/bikinis” or something like that. But, the outrage, as in all cases on Twitter and media outlets, was disproportionally large and indicative of behavior based more on emotions than logic, something that at least I hope doctors wouldn’t do.
lastly, you shouldn’t be posting provocative pictures of you in swimwear or bro tanks (Aka pics that scream, “omg look how hot I am”) publicly on the internet if you are a physician. It tarnishes our unparalleled respect in society, and to be honest, comes off as entirely narcissistic, like you care about yourself more than your patients. I personally don’t want to see a doctor that post pics like that.
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Orthopedists and dermatologists around the world disagree 😉
The idea that we're some other class of people is quite frankly ridiculous. We're just people that happen to be doctors, I think you may have let certain classist illusions about the profession persist far too strongly in your own mind.
Actually, I'm not though I agree it is a word that's overused. That poster is allowed to have her opinion of the article, which she posted. To then believe that just because you disagree with her opinion (not you personally), her opinion is reflective of someone who didn't read the article when she is engaging in in-depth discussion about it, is ridiculous. To then go on to back up your own opinion (and yes, it is an opinion) by reiterating nonsense you've been posting over and over again as if it somehow contradicts the poster's opinion or proves the poster can't think for herself is, in fact, condescending and consistent with "mansplaining."
It's SDN, remember?
Booty on fleek, body unique, jhenne aiko
Why even inject gender into the discussion, as if it has anything to do with why you disagree with someone? Stop using group identity as the basis for judging individual behavior. Full stop. Don’t give a damn about your political views. Wrong is wrong and group politics will only beget more resentment and chaos.
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It’s not if the poster simply thinks the person is wrong because they think they are wrong. You aren’t using the word correctly.
and me telling you the word use is wrong isn’t mansplaining because I don’t know, nor care, about your gender because it’s irrelevant
Aren't you the dude who just dismissed liberals BLM and feminists all in the same post
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Aren't you the dude who just dismissed liberals BLM and feminists in all the same post
Yeah, people who tweet stupid, group identity based hashtags are a problem and yes, I will mock those that do mercilessly (as anyone who cares at all about the virtue of western civilization should). Your melanin content, sex chromosomes, or sexual preferences don’t define you. It doesn’t entitle you to special treatment. It doesn’t entitle you to “check someone’s privilege” as a means of shutting down dialogue you don’t agree with.
Aren't you the dude who just dismissed liberals BLM and feminists in all the same post
And how dare you misgender me!!!!
#Reeeeee
Okay lol, if sex or race doesn't matter to you and that these qualities shouldn't define anyone, then I'm sure you'll be receptive to the idea women and black people don't feel they are being treated just like everyone else and want to fix that
Nobody is against that cmon now don’t be obtuse. I hate that argument so damn much. It’s more that if you have any differing opinion at all you’re immediately “cancelled” on both sides. And that’s especially true if you’re a middle class white male. You don’t get to have an opinion unless it’s in line with what the twitter mob wants it to be. There is no measured debate or conversation anymore and it’s insane and unsustainable.
Why do you think stores and private citizens put BLM signs in windows and in front of property that could get vandalized? If they don’t, it’s been shown that it’s an assumption that they’re “against the cause” or whatever and they pay the price. Not to mention all the people getting “cancelled” because they don’t put out statements or whatever. It’s ridiculous.
The majority of people support the premise of the movement for sure. But people take things too far with ineffective and ridiculous tactics
You don’t get there by using verbiage such as “mansplaining”, “toxic masculinity”, “white privilege”, or ignoring obvious double standards that benefit “oppressed” group identities over others.
Thinking someone is wrong is different than telling someone they must not have read it. Telling someone "if that's your opinion, it means you didn't read it" is condescending.
You telling me my word use is wrong (even though it isn't) isn't mansplaining because you're not doing so in a condescending way.
why are we combining cancel culture discussion with garbage research? The study authors used a very flawed and creepy methodology to make their bad conclusions and people responded correctly to slam the study. This isn't cancel culture. It's calling the authors and editors out and severely condemning them for publishing a stupid study.
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maybe one of the reasons doctors are so highly respect in general (yes, I get things are somewhat different with administrators etc etc) is because we conveyed a clean sense of professionalism while savings lives. You can thank prior generations for that. By all means, please use your privilege to post seductive gym and beach photos publicly and tarnish our public image. I hope you get a lot of validation from your likes
Should i thank previous generations for paternalism, tuskeegee and the distrust of minority populations. Or how about the stereotype of greedy doctors, or pushers of pain meds.
If someone wants to post pictures of themselves at the gym or what who gives a ****. Are they clad in seductive banana hammocks and bikini's while treating patients? Are they providing bad care while they are at work because of these pictures on their social media account? Are patients so dumb that they cant discern doctors have personal lives as well and dont go to sleep in their white coats.
People should be cognizant that stuff they say and post online can bite them in the behind and really serves no professional purpose. But ultimately it is their decision to make and their careers.
As an aside its a weird hill to die on considering people like Dr.Oz , Physicians that are covid deniers and vaccine opponents , and programs following around extravagant plastic surgeons probably do a larger disservice to our profession.
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I think it seems like you are trying to make “mansplaining” synonomous with condescending and I think the requirements are more specific than that, but we might not be communicating effectively
Didn't you just start MS 1 like two weeks ago? Maybe lay off lecturing the rest of us on what we're doing to "our public image" until you get a couple of years under your belt.
FWIW, I have no issue with people dressing how ever they want to off the clock and I think we have some lingering, puritanical underpinnings in medicine, but the “I’m an oppressed female physician, I’ll show the patriarchy by taking a bikini selfie” borders on as absurd as the study itself was.
Perhaps there are more nuances to the word. I don't know as I don't tend to use it because like all words that become trendy, they lose meaning after a while. Mansplaining became the norm in popular culture to describe condescending male attitudes toward women, feeling the need to explain things to them that only they (the male) gets, usually based on the assumption the female needs to be explained to. That's the part that's relevant in that particular interaction for me.
ur right. Preserve the clinical hierarchy as much as possible and silence dissent
Maybe those residents on twitter should take ur advice
ur right. Preserve the clinical hierarchy as much as possible and silence dissent
Maybe those residents on twitter should take ur advice
It has nothing to do with the clinical hierarchy. It's about the fact that you literally JUST joined the profession 2 weeks ago and yet, you proclaim to know more and better about it than those of us who've been in the profession for years. I'd say the same for someone just starting law school lecturing lawyers about the profession or a PR major just starting college and lecturing PR professionals on what they're doing wrong or someone starting clown college criticizing professional clowns on what's wrong with them.
Express your opinion all you want, but don't expect us not to point out that someone who literally just finished orientation of MS-1 tells the rest of us we're harming the medical profession. It's ridiculous.
Well....It was senators and hospitals responsible for pushing the opiates.....
lol right bc it takes an md to understand that being professional on social media is good for our public image. that’s on step right?
I didnt realize senators and hospitals had prescription pads, were they holding guns to peoples heads as well. Obviously there were systemic problems contributiing, but you think pill mills were running themselves?
No, but it damn well does take someone actually in the profession to understand the nuances to how casually the word professionalism is tossed around in the profession, what it means, and what it entails and doesn't entail. I wouldn't lecture lawyers on professionalism in their profession any more than I want to be lectured by someone just has started med school yesterday about it.
Bruh keep in mind the poster you're defending isn't some intellectual acting in good faith to "critique" or "debate" any of those movements.
You're vastly oversimplifying the issue. If some some white-bread straight white guy on Twitter thinks he knows better than person of color about a particular issue that applies to that group, then yes they can get shut down. How would you feel that if in your perception and experience that you've experienced racism/sexism, and then all of a sudden some "intellectual" says your observations and feelings aren't valid and best of all refuses to listen?
Your emphasize on the tactics of this movement like cancel culture also suggests that you aren't truly concerned with police brutality, rape etc. Not everyone in the movement supports every single tactic used, but what they do agree on is a need to finally address those issues. I'm guessing you come from a point of privilege in many respects where you aren't from those groups, as do I, so yes it can be difficult to be patient when the same people who aren't even repressed repeat the same talking points and become defensive over the same issues. If your anger is held toward certain subsets of protesters/feminists and not old-school police/misogynists, your anger is misplaced.
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I think I gotta join twitter and be more active on social media. So many trendy terms being used fluently that, well, I’m not fluent in. Or I’m aging at a much faster pace.
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Clearly not everyone in this profession holds the same view on professionalism. It’s not like we all have a group identity. Did I use that right?
yes, you should hold the people who did those things accountable
I was referring to a generation(s) of physicians who didn’t push their “bikini/swimwear that qualified as provocative pictures” into the public sphere, as according to the article, a certain fraction of doctors are doing publicly on social media
True, but when someone who just joined the profession lectures everyone else on it, it has a special flare of ridiculousness. And on this particular subject of professional, sounds like the vast majority is in agreement. As far as I know, even the ones criticizing the hashtag and sexism discussion agree the study was ridiculous and that swimsuit selfies don't equal unprofessional behavior. Seems that only one or two disagree with that and at least one of them is the poster who just joined the profession.
Today’s doctors know far more about cancel culture and microaggressions than medicine, especially after the COVID hiatus. Aren’t you glad you get to have us as residents?
“swimsuit selfies don't equal unprofessional behavior.”
that’s not what the article stated. It stated that bikini/swimwear pix with provocative posing
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