Old Applicants

[oldapplicant]

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As an really old potential applicant I have a wife, mortgage and two kids. If I get accepted is there ANY WAY to cover (borrow) money to support the family while in school without income for at least 4 years??? I am talking lost income, not a set school fee like tuition.

Sell house & live in trailer? Close out all 401K money? I think I am too old for the armed services. Anyone crossed this hurdle? I think this is the biggest challenge to going to school later in life.

 

[Tatastrophy]

As an really old potential applicant I have a wife, mortgage and two kids. If I get accepted is there ANY WAY to cover (borrow) money to support the family while in school without income for at least 4 years??? I am talking lost income, not a set school fee like tuition.

Sell house & live in trailer? Close out all 401K money? I think I am too old for the armed services. Anyone crossed this hurdle? I think this is the biggest challenge to going to school later in life.

you are over 42?
If so..I think you might be looking into bigger issues than paying for school...

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I suggest that you post it in the nontraditional student forum. There are many people there who have gone through similar situations, and I think that you will get much better advice there than from the pre-allo forum, since many of us our kids in are 20s! I wish you luck, though. 🙂 I hope you can find a way to go to med school.

 

[7starmantis]

you are over 42?
If so..I think you might be looking into bigger issues than paying for school...

Not sure what that means.

Plenty of people have done it. I suggest you go check out the Non-traditional forum, you might get better response there. You can take out loans to cover cost of living, but probably not enough to cover your whole family if your wife isn't working (at least not in student loans, private may be another matter completely).

I'll defer to those who have been there already.

 

[Tatastrophy]

Not sure what that means.

Plenty of people have done it. I suggest you go check out the Non-traditional forum, you might get better response there. You can take out loans to cover cost of living, but probably not enough to cover your whole family if your wife isn't working (at least not in student loans, private may be another matter completely).

I'll defer to those who have been there already.

I am sure you can do it...question (for me at least) becomes-is it worth all the money and pain to begin really practicing in your 50s. How many years do you expect to practice? Are you going to work until you drop dead? Then-you are also stuck with huge loans and working tons=not as much time with family. For me, that is an important factor.

OP-if it is worth it to you-by all means go for it. I'd personally have reservations about making a time/money investment that I may never get to reap full benefits of.
I haven't heard of schools providing loans for "lost wages". Does your spouse work? You might just have to get by on that and whatever you get for living expenses. Like someone else said though-the non-trad forum would be a better source...
Best of Luck!

 

[DocMcCoy]

I don't have anything constructive to add other than what previous posters have stated. There has to be many people on the nontrad forum that can help you out. You might want to check out the military thread as well though, especially the national guard which is what I am considering. An officer life is not that bad and I believe they have waivers for the older crowd. Plus max 90 day deployments in country. Just a thought.

 

[sustentacular]

As an really old potential applicant I have a wife, mortgage and two kids. If I get accepted is there ANY WAY to cover (borrow) money to support the family while in school without income for at least 4 years??? I am talking lost income, not a set school fee like tuition.

Sell house & live in trailer? Close out all 401K money? I think I am too old for the armed services. Anyone crossed this hurdle? I think this is the biggest challenge to going to school later in life.

I'm no financial advisor, but I do watch a lot of Suze Orman, don't dip into your 401k.
When you fill out your FAFSA I believe you'll have a place to list dependents. Based on that info you should be awarded more* money (to loan) for cost of living expenses. If that isn't enough you can take out additional private loans.


Edit: * more than a single, independent student.

Edit 2: OK, I found more info from the Federal Student Aid website, this PDF details considerations when determining a student's financial need.
From the second page:
"For a student with dependents, an allowance for costs expected to be incurred for dependent care. This covers care during periods that include, but that are not limited to, class time, study time, field work, internships, and commuting time for the student. The amount of the allowance should be based on the number and age of such dependents and should not exceed reasonable cost in the community for the kind of care provided. "

 

[teenmachinery1]

As an really old potential applicant I have a wife, mortgage and two kids. If I get accepted is there ANY WAY to cover (borrow) money to support the family while in school without income for at least 4 years??? I am talking lost income, not a set school fee like tuition.

Sell house & live in trailer? Close out all 401K money? I think I am too old for the armed services. Anyone crossed this hurdle? I think this is the biggest challenge to going to school later in life.

sounds like fun times...

seriously though, you should post in the non-trad forum. I think there could be useful help there.

Is your wife getting a job out of the question? just curious.

 

[7starmantis]

OP-if it is worth it to you-by all means go for it. I'd personally have reservations about making a time/money investment that I may never get to reap full benefits of.

Not really disagreeing, just clarifying a bit. This is a good reason to post in the non-trad forum. Us "older" crowd tend to view life a bit differently. Its not always about "reaping full benefits of" when it comes to life decisions. If your passion and love is practicing medicine, the money be damned, you are reaping the full benefits of the time/money sacrifice. Doing what you love covers many a financial short failing in my mind.

Its a very personal decision, but follow your dreams, starting med school in your 50's has been done before and I gotta say, I think its awesome. OP, you will be 50 one day anyway, why not be 50 and a physician doing what you love?

 

[Tatastrophy]

Doing what you love covers many a financial short failing in my mind.

Its a very personal decision, but follow your dreams, starting med school in your 50's has been done before and I gotta say, I think its awesome. OP, you will be 50 one day anyway, why not be 50 and a physician doing what you love?

I mean-I absolutely agree that if you got a dream you should go for it (hence the sig). I just think that since you have people who depend on you now and with whom you presumably want to spend enough time as you all grow...it isn't quite so clear cut.
I think if I get to practice one day of medicine-my time investment is completely worth it. Financially...it might not be so easy.

 

[armybound]

there are plenty of loans out there

 

[billw]

As an really old potential applicant I have a wife, mortgage and two kids. If I get accepted is there ANY WAY to cover (borrow) money to support the family while in school without income for at least 4 years??? I am talking lost income, not a set school fee like tuition.

Sell house & live in trailer? Close out all 401K money? I think I am too old for the armed services. Anyone crossed this hurdle? I think this is the biggest challenge to going to school later in life.

While you can almost certainly find a private lender willing to give you supplemental loans, think about the hole you would be digging. You are already talking about taking on probably $200-300K in loans if you finance four years. If you add replacement income to that, you are quickly working yourself up toward half a million dollars. If you are older than 40, consider how long it may take you to pay that off.

I should be able to pay for about half my school bill by emptying my 401k and selling our house. My wife has a pretty small income, but it will still make a big difference to have that extra money coming in. Does your wife work? Is she prepared to fill some of the income gap? What are you prepared to sacrifice? Are you prepared to move into a tiny apartment, put the kids in a single bedroom, and sleep on a hide-a-bed?

If given the choice of pain now or pain later, which do you prefer?

 

[7starmantis]

Live like none other now, so you can live like none other later.

 

[Law2Doc]

Moving to the nontrad board, where you will have a better chance at getting advice from folks similarly situated.

 

[ShyRem]

Do take a look around the non-trad forum as many folks have come up with inventive ways to save money.

However, generally you can borrow your cost of attendance (COA) and no more. This will give you about $20K to live on during the year, from which you must pay your health insurance, rent, food, travel, etc. They do not give you more money to support a family... the COA is for the student and the student alone. Student loan monies are for the student, not the student plus family. Your spouse may have to take a job if you live in an area that has high rent/cost of living.

Welcome to the club. I was 39 when I went to med school, and I have a husband and two children as well. I will graduate on my 43rd birthday in 6 months. 😀

 

[Crelal]

We sold our house (at a loss) prior to coming to medical school. We live in a 2 bedroom apartment with our three children. (Yes, 2 bedrooms for 5 people, you did not read wrong.) Our hope is that within the next 9 months, we will be able to move into one of the three bedroom apartments the U has available to student families- there is a waiting list. We purchased our cars two years before I started applying to medical schools, and will have them paid off before I start second year. We will not be purchasing another vehicle until a few years into residency. Credit cards are not used and we worked hard to pay off that debt prior to matriculation. Extras left our household about a year before I started school.

I was the major breadwinner in our household prior to school, and we are literally below the Federal Poverty Line right now. My husband works ~30 hours/week, we utilize assistance through the U for daycare, and live decently. There are things our children can't have, but they have their basic needs.

It is a trade off. Our children are young, and will be teenagers when I finish with training. But at the end of the training, we will be better off than if I had not gone to school. Do NOT cash in your 401K- there are loans. My caution is that your spouse and children will have to be on board, and willing to sacrifice for several years to achieve your goals. And by on board, I mean 100% on board and supportive, otherwise you could lose your spouse/family and do poorly in classes. It is a delicate balance.

Best of luck!

 

[oldapplicant]

Not really disagreeing, just clarifying a bit. This is a good reason to post in the non-trad forum. Us "older" crowd tend to view life a bit differently. Its not always about "reaping full benefits of" when it comes to life decisions. If your passion and love is practicing medicine, the money be damned, you are reaping the full benefits of the time/money sacrifice. Doing what you love covers many a financial short failing in my mind.

This IS the non trad forum isn't it? Forgot where I originally posted this.

I may set a record at some schools for oldest (turned 52 last week). WHY WOULD I WANT TO DO THIS?

I graduated years ago with an engineering degree from the University of Illinois. So so grades back then, A's B's and C's but the going saying was "what is the differnce bewteen an A and a C average in Engineering? Answer: about $1000 per year. That was true then, and indeed it was a tough curriculum where everyone was in the top 5% of their high school class and all tests were graded on a curve! You could have an 88% and get a C. Still have nightmares about U of I engineering but won a national design competition senior year.

I was accepted to Dental School at U of I but did not want to do it then. Who knew dental incomes would rise 300% comared to medical doctors maybe 25%??? Now I am now a national sales manager at a well known company. Got to travel to Europe (again) in a couple weeks. Seen more than most and had some fun sometimes. BUT.....not happy. I got into what I do ONLY for money. Don't want to travel anymore. Wrong decision in hindsight. You have to be happy.

Took the MCAT last August first time reading bio and chem books on planes a lot. Scored only a 26P. Scored 11 to 13 on those aamc practice tests. Did not apply this year. Maybe OK for DO school (which is fine) but probably not for MD. It was too late this year and I am wrestling over the finances.

The wife works and brings in $50K. Understanding? Hmmm. The kids are teens. I have little concern for paying back loans even if $500,000. I just wish there was a cost of living loss loan out there. To those worried about paying back loans as a doc you have to get real. What do you think non docs earn? You will pay back those loans over the course of say 10 years and still MAKE A LOT OF MONEY! Loan officers do not worry about giving you loans because they know you can pay it back easily. I earn a low 6 figure income (it is a recession) but as any doc specialist, my income will double. I can pay back loans and still live at the standard of living I am acustomed to. My best doc friend is putting in 40 hours a week and earning $400K. I would say he's well above average but some make more. He is not a cardiologist, surgeon, or anethesiologist.

Those who long for retirement really cannot stand what they do. If I work till 75 so be it. Why not? My real question in this forum is are there any loans that you can get to cover expenses for home and family? I have the collateral to cover them. I would rather pay off the loans later than liquidate the assets now. Why sell the family home if I don't have to? I just want my ambitions to least negatively impact everyone else.

 

[NTF]

Alot of this depends on how big your mortgage payment is. The cost of living adjustments are not very generous for dependents (I'm a med student with a wife and daughter). You can borrow for daycare expenses, but can't get any extra money for dependents unless your wife signs a notarized statement saying she won't be working to care for the kids. And the extra money is actually pretty small. For us it amounted to about $275 extra per month/ child. So for you it probably makes more sense for you wife to keep her 50k job. But again this depends on the size of your mortgage because the housing allowance they give you is really designed for a single person not a family dwelling and it only applies to you. They don't increase it because you have kids. So your housing allowance plus your wife's salary will have to cover your mortgage.

They won't allow any loan increases to cover any living expenses or health coverage for your wife (hopefully your wife has good benefits at her job). And many schools either won't cover or only will extend coverage to dependents at exorbitant prices and sometimes the loan increases won't cover the entire difference. Again hopefully you can get on a family plan through your wife's job.

There's always private educational loans but I'd avoid those if at all possible because they don't have any of the safe-guards (debt cancellation in event of death or disability) that federal loans have and you have to start making full payments as soon as you graduate versus the income-based repayment programs for federal loans.

So the short of it is that you're looking at having to live on about $1400-$2200/month (depending on the region that the school is in) plus your wife's salary, which is definitely doable unless you have a large mortgage payment or other outstanding unsecured debt. Hopefully your mortgage approximates the house value because I wouldn't bank on necessarily being able to get into your local med school (you may have to move and sell or rent your house). My wife, daughter, and I live pretty comfortably on $1500/month but we live frugally and don't have a mortgage, car payments, or credit card debt.

So if you can be frugal and haven't amassed a lot of unsecured debt it's definitely doable.

But frankly, I'm more worried about how you are going to field the questions about WHY? I hope you've got an ass-ton of "clinical exploration" on your resume that will demonstrate to an adcom that you've thought this through. The opportunity costs for a 53 year old starting medical school are about near at their maximum as far as I'm concerned and I'd need to see something pretty special and extraordinary about your story other than some long repressed yearning to make me take a chance on you if I were an adcom.

You're going to be have to be able to answer these doubts that if someone doesn't ask you directly will definitely be thinking:

1)Why should I give this guy a spot at our school when the earliest he could be an attending is at 60 years of age? Realistically he'll probably have <10 years of practice when most doctors really only hit their stride after 10-15 years.
2) How does he expect to finance this? Even if he worked 'til 75 he wouldn't be able to pay his loans off.
3) Why doesn't he consider mid-level provider positions? He could be on the units practicing in 3 years and at much less debt.

While technically, age isn't a factor in admissions, the reality is it will color every person's perception of your application. You're going to have to be fighting their doubts and justifying your application in ways that others won't have to. This is a big reason why DO schools should absolutely be a part of your application process. If your goal is to be a med student by 53 years old you absolutely do not have the liberty to leave out options like DO schools.

To be frank, I feel a little guilty being harsh about this cuz as an older non-trad myself I usually encourage older applicants, but >50years of age I do start to seriously wonder whether the opportunity costs don't exceed the benefits.

In any event, good luck to you.

 

[CajunMedic]

Live like none other now, so you can live like none other later.

Dave Ramsey Fan?

 

[dragonfly99]

I think that for someone to dig himself/herself out of the financial hole dug by going to medical school, you need to be able to practice 10-20 years AFTER residency. Med school plus residency is 7-12 years. You will make enough during residency to live, and if no kids or spouse to support then make some minimal/small loan payments, but not enough to make much of a dent, if ANY, in your loans if they are 150k or more. I would have serious doubts about going to med school if not going to start practicing before age 50. It's one thing to be 30 or 35 going in, but I think it's different to be 50. If you are independently wealthy and can afford to pursue this interest, then fine, but just realize that it's going to take a lot more time (day to day and week to week) than the vast majority of other careers. This will start during 3rd year of school, and continue during parts of 4th year, and all of internship, and unless you do some easy specialty (which you may not be able to get into, anyway) then during the rest of residency and potentially into the job you get ultimately. I agree w/the person above who said you better be damn sure that your family is on board and IMHO the spouse really needs to be working, at least part time, to make this work at all. Otherwise you'll have to take out such ridiculous amounts of private loans...if you can even get enough.

 

[7starmantis]

Dave Ramsey Fan?

Meh, a little I guess. Been told to go through his stuff by so many people I started looking into it.

 

[riverjib]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I suggest that you post it in the nontraditional student forum. There are many people there who have gone through similar situations, and I think that you will get much better advice there than from the pre-allo forum, since many of us our kids in are 20s! I wish you luck, though. 🙂 I hope you can find a way to go to med school.

Unless you posted this elsewhere first, I'm assuming some previous posters got lost and didn't realize they were in the non-trad forum? I'll admit that I stopped reading after the first few responses, so I'm not sure how it progressed from here.

Anyway, there are definitely ways to do this. I went back (no kids or husband then) and started from scratch as an undergrad while working full-time. You might have to forgo sleep for a few years if you can't get appropriate aid. If your wife works, that will help. My sister is working on her master's while her husband works on his PhD with two young children at home. They're broke, but they're surviving in Manhattan right now.

I imagine it might be different for parents of older kids. They may have to take out loans for college instead of depending on a college fund. Then again, your tough financial situation may mean they get better loans, grants, and scholarships than they could have gotten without you in med school.

My advice? Hire an accountant or attorney who knows how to assess these things. Keep looking for responses here, because there are some extremely resourceful people (and financial experts) with fantastic advice, but don't wait for it, either. Consult someone who really knows what to tell you.

I'd imagine you are eligible for loans and aid that you can't even imagine exist. As a non-traditional student, I've been awarded scholarships I never applied for, and aid I never heard existed. Once you actually do get into med school, they'll do whatever they can to keep you there, and from what I've heard, this is even truer in private schools.

You're not old, and what you're doing is admirable. It's not going to be an easy road, and you'll have to strike an incredibly difficult balance, but it can be done. Take it from a 30-year-old (non-trad pre-med) who never reaped the *financial* benefits of my mother finally finishing school as I graduated high school, but is unbelievably proud of her accomplishments. Whatever you need to do to be happy and feel productive, your family will fare well as long as you are setting a good example and taking care of them.

 

[jinx520]

Last time I checked, the Army has an age limit if you enlist/become commissioned before you get your MD, but there are no age limits once you earn your degree. Double-check this, though, 'cause things change. This means that if you miss the age cutoff you would have to take loans out to cover your COA but you may be able to negotiate an enlistment bonus of tuition repayment once you do get your degree. Different services might have different deals, as well.

However, think long and hard about this option and don't even consider it if the military lifestyle is something you find distasteful. I've met plenty of people who enlisted for whatever reason not realizing what being in the military really entailed, and they were absolutely miserable. You have to give up a lot, and unless that's okay with you and your family before you sign up you will find yourself in a painful life situation with no other option than to wait out your term.

Don't be discouraged by people who bring up your age, but do take their advice and have good reasons for why you want to do this. Personally, I always smile inside when people bring up their "advanced age" which happens to be younger than my own, and imply that they will be shrivelled and decrepit once they are as old as I am. Age is all in the mind, I say. If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way to make it happen. Good luck!