Old(er) non-trad advice please

[OldTwisted]

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Hi y'all, I was hoping to get some advice, good, bad or otherwise.
I'm currently 38, moved to the US 14 years ago. Foreign military medic, now a civilian EMT.
in 2015, I decided sitting on my laurels wasn't getting me anywhere, US schools told me to be able to attend uni I needed at least a GED, ACT/SAT. Went to the local community college and asked to sit the GED, was told since I didn't take the class I would fail. Sat it regardless, and passed. Took the ACT the next month. Not a terrific score (26) but kept me out of trouble.
Applied to the university we lived near, started B Science majoring in Biology in 2016. Got through a few classes and had to withdraw due to overwhelming personal reasons.
I just finished my first year of undergrad, with a 3.7. The only science class was Cell & Molecular Biology for which I earned a B. I haven't been able to take a math class yet. We have since moved and I'm applying to the local university.
I have worked in clinics with some amazing doctors that have pushed me toward MD/DO. I would love to but I'm worried about several things:
My age. By the time I finish undergrad I will be 41. I figure by the time I'm able to practice I'll be closer to 50. Then working until I'm 80 ish to pay off loans.
I am absolutely terrible at math. Horrific even. As in if calculators didn't exist, I would never be able to do any problem that required more than 10 digits (or 20 if I used my toes to help count).
I've been told that since I have a GED, that disqualifies me immediately.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

A GED does not disqualify you. Most (with exception of some schools) require a BA. So get the BA, and go for it if you have a passion for medicine. Don't let age be a dissuading factor.

You won't be the oldest to ever attend medical school. Read this thread for inspiration: ~NonTraditionals~: Ages

 

[star.buck]

You're gonna be 50 no matter what you do... do you want to do it sitting on those laurels (as you said), or walking into a hospital/clinic wearing your white coat. What would your 85 year old self tell you to do?

I hate math too, med school isn't bad with it, but there are some calculations you'll need to do - but with a bit of practice it's not bad at all. Take a stat's class while you work on the pre-reqs, that'll help.

I don't see that a GED would disqualify you, when you have the undergrad and the grades to prove yourself; as well as being a nontraditional student - hiccups along the way are almost expected.

 

[OldTwisted]

Thank you for the replies! I was definitely expecting harsher responses like "stick to the booboo bus."
Whenever I'm asked why I haven't chosen it, I always answer because I'm too old.
I love medicine, I love how it works, and I love helping people. Don't love the politics (who does?)
I did have a period of burn out while I was working on a large inner city 911 truck, after a horrific call. I took 6 months off and started working in ERs as a tech. I try to do other things but keep coming back to medicine.
In fact, earlier this year, that morning I had decided I absolutely did not want to stay in the medical field, I was running on a treadmill in the gym, and the kid in front of me had a seizure and face planted. Of course, like most medical types, I saw something that didn't sit quite right before he seized and I had already started his way. I took care of him and the scene until the truck showed up, and kind of chuckled. Not at him, but at the universe mail, I guess.

Guess I need a math tutor.

 

[Catsfordays]

Maybe something to consider if you are deterred because of the loans/time is PA school. You can still be a provider. It seems to be a common route for non-trads in the ER I work at.

 

[Johnrawlsneuro]

MD/DO or NP/PA - you’ll be that age regardless. Go be a clinician or physician. You’re definitely not too old.

 

[Deleted member 750603]

By the time you become established in any field you will be in your late 40's early 50's so med school is no different.

You don't get to do it over. Go for it.

Don't make excuses. If you are not good at something then do everything within your means to become good.

You simply lack foundations so higher mathematics escapes you. Start at remedial math if you have to but don't make excuses.

You can be doing calculus within two 2-3 years.

I finished high school at a calculus level and had no clue how to do fractions when I went to college. I was just monkeying the teachers in high school but lacked foundational knowledge. I started with remedial math and ended up with a Math Minor.

 

[Goro]

Hi y'all, I was hoping to get some advice, good, bad or otherwise.
I'm currently 38, moved to the US 14 years ago. Foreign military medic, now a civilian EMT.
in 2015, I decided sitting on my laurels wasn't getting me anywhere, US schools told me to be able to attend uni I needed at least a GED, ACT/SAT. Went to the local community college and asked to sit the GED, was told since I didn't take the class I would fail. Sat it regardless, and passed. Took the ACT the next month. Not a terrific score (26) but kept me out of trouble.
Applied to the university we lived near, started B Science majoring in Biology in 2016. Got through a few classes and had to withdraw due to overwhelming personal reasons.
I just finished my first year of undergrad, with a 3.7. The only science class was Cell & Molecular Biology for which I earned a B. I haven't been able to take a math class yet. We have since moved and I'm applying to the local university.
I have worked in clinics with some amazing doctors that have pushed me toward MD/DO. I would love to but I'm worried about several things:
My age. By the time I finish undergrad I will be 41. I figure by the time I'm able to practice I'll be closer to 50. Then working until I'm 80 ish to pay off loans.
I am absolutely terrible at math. Horrific even. As in if calculators didn't exist, I would never be able to do any problem that required more than 10 digits (or 20 if I used my toes to help count).
I've been told that since I have a GED, that disqualifies me immediately.

Any advice is appreciated.

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. One is now a PGY3 in So Cal at 53.

 

[DSM_302.0]

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. One is now a PGY3 in So Cal at 53.

Goro, if I end up at your school, will you let me know? Or are you anonymous to all your students too?

Anyway, OP, if you want it, go for it! Lots of us older students here. Keep reading the forums and you'll get a sense for what it takes to get in: good grades, especially in science courses, and a high MCAT score (and thankfully not a ton of math required).

 

[astrostellar]

I will be almost 32 by the time I finish undergrad. I also was very, very bad at math. I had no real foundation in math beyond about fifth or sixth grade. I started with remedial-level math classes at my college (think division, fractions, etc up to pre-algebra). When I'd passed that class, I took an intro math class and went from there. Don't be afraid to start from the very bottom.

 

[parabellum]

I'm in a similar situation. 38, finishing my UG next year but with no sciences, so I'll be doing some kind of post-bac putting me on a similar timeline as you. You are absolutely not too old, and math can be learned whether you're good at it or not. Your timeline can be compressed to a certain degree by summer sessions and taking an extra class or two per semester, or online classes. I was happy to receive a 4.0 for 18 credits today for the spring, done while working full time and volunteering/shadowing... I was the worst student, so if I can do that, anything is possible. No one is going to tell you there's plenty of time at this point, but you definitely have time to make it work.

 

[OldTwisted]

Thanks all!

Definitely not afraid to start at the bottom. Kahn Academy has been great so far, I literally started at the first grade math class lol. My math teachers in primary and high schools hated me.

 

[OldTwisted]

Don't make excuses. If you are not good at something then do everything within your means to become good.

This is funny. One of my favorite clinicians, who interestingly trained at Mayo (which I think is outrageously cool) asked me why I wasn't on the path to med school. I said "I'm too old, not smart enough." He looked at me, said a cuss word, told me to stop making excuses, and said I needed to get it done.

I think I'm afraid. I want to do it, I believe I can do it, I'm afraid of screwing it all up.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

You're located in TX. Great because TX schools love older nontraditionals with life experiences.

Also, if that is you and the cute baby in your avatar, I would change it for anonymity.

 

[Deleted member 750603]

This is funny. One of my favorite clinicians, who interestingly trained at Mayo (which I think is outrageously cool) asked me why I wasn't on the path to med school. I said "I'm too old, not smart enough." He looked at me, said a cuss word, told me to stop making excuses, and said I needed to get it done.

I think I'm afraid. I want to do it, I believe I can do it, I'm afraid of screwing it all up.

You cannot be afraid to fail. There will be plenty of things you will fail at as does everyone but that's how we learn.

It will cripple you from doing anything in life. If you fail then you fail but better that than sitting frozen in fear.

 

[star.buck]

This is funny. One of my favorite clinicians, who interestingly trained at Mayo (which I think is outrageously cool) asked me why I wasn't on the path to med school. I said "I'm too old, not smart enough." He looked at me, said a cuss word, told me to stop making excuses, and said I needed to get it done.

I think I'm afraid. I want to do it, I believe I can do it, I'm afraid of screwing it all up.

The only screw up you can do is not try. If you fail, learn and grow... failure is only true failure if it breaks you and stops you - which it shouldn’t.

I say this... knowing how it feels to stand in your shoes, knowing the terror, and knowing how deeply failure hurts. However, now I sass failure, I smack it around and use it to my advantage to teach me new things - it doesn’t mold me and tell me what to do anymore... most of the time... I’ll admit sometimes I still get scared (especially now, studying for my first board exam).

I really glad people told me 5 years ago to quit lolligagging and go get my dream. I start 3rd of med school in 2 months. I’m 35 this year.

So.. quit lolligagging, quit being afraid... you’ll only truly fail if you don’t try!!

 

[OldTwisted]

You're located in TX. Great because TX schools love older nontraditionals with life experiences.

your avatar, I would change it for anonymity.

Fixed! And that is good news about TX schools.

 

[OldTwisted]

The only screw up you can do is not try. If you fail, learn and grow... failure is only true failure if it breaks you and stops you - which it shouldn’t.

I say this... knowing how it feels to stand in your shoes, knowing the terror, and knowing how deeply failure hurts. However, now I sass failure, I smack it around and use it to my advantage to teach me new things - it doesn’t mold me and tell me what to do anymore... most of the time... I’ll admit sometimes I still get scared (especially now, studying for my first board exam).

I really glad people told me 5 years ago to quit lolligagging and go get my dream. I start 3rd of med school in 2 months. I’m 35 this year.

So.. quit lolligagging, quit being afraid... you’ll only truly fail if you don’t try!!

I love this. I think I'm going to save it. I need to read it a hundred times lol.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

From an earnings perspective at 38 with 3 years left of undergrad, PA is a better route even without discounting future earnings or admissions odds.

If you're still in favor of MD/DO, it can be done, but it won't be easy. Also, ZERO additional C's in science courses, sprinkling of B's with the aggressive deflators only...if the grading is fair, you should make A's only.

You'll also need thick skin. Not everyone views nontraditionals favorably, a few are openly derisive.

 

[star.buck]

From an earnings perspective at 38 with 3 years left of undergrad, PA is a better route even without discounting future earnings or admissions odds.

If you're still in favor of MD/DO, it can be done, but it won't be easy. Also, ZERO additional C's in science courses, sprinkling of B's with the aggressive deflators only...if the grading is fair, you should make A's only.

You'll also need thick skin. Not everyone views nontraditionals favorably, a few are openly derisive.

Sure, if you’re only about the paycheck... but then if that’s the case medicine isn’t usually the way to go anyway.

And the grades are not the only determinant of acceptance, your comments are based on trends - which at the end of the day don’t matter at all to the individual.

Trends say (via the LizzyM, other data, and advice from your cohorts) I personally had an 11% or less chance of acceptance. I ignored, I applied, I’m going to be an M3 in a couple months.

More and more schools are looking at the applicants as a whole person, not just the grades or the research experience. Sure the grades help... but they are by no means the be all and end all.

 

[Johnrawlsneuro]

Sure, if you’re only about the paycheck... but then if that’s the case medicine isn’t usually the way to go anyway.

And the grades are not the only determinant of acceptance, your comments are based on trends - which at the end of the day don’t matter at all to the individual.

Trends say (via the LizzyM, other data, and advice from your cohorts) I personally had an 11% or less chance of acceptance. I ignored, I applied, I’m going to be an M3 in a couple months.

More and more schools are looking at the applicants as a whole person, not just the grades or the research experience. Sure the grades help... but they are by no means the be all and end all.

This is spot on with one caveat: PAs aren’t just for money. Clinicians do a lot of valuable and worthwhile medical work that someone could find a lot of satisfaction from.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Sure, if you’re only about the paycheck... but then if that’s the case medicine isn’t usually the way to go anyway.

And the grades are not the only determinant of acceptance, your comments are based on trends - which at the end of the day don’t matter at all to the individual.

Trends say (via the LizzyM, other data, and advice from your cohorts) I personally had an 11% or less chance of acceptance. I ignored, I applied, I’m going to be an M3 in a couple months.

More and more schools are looking at the applicants as a whole person, not just the grades or the research experience. Sure the grades help... but they are by no means the be all and end all.

Trolls always find a way to make something into a negative. Nowhere did remotely imply that money was the only motivation.

C's in science courses do not help a candidate get into med school. B's don't. A's do.

 

[Deleted member 750603]

Trolls always find a way to make something into a negative. Nowhere did remotely imply that money was the only motivation.

C's in science courses do not help a candidate get into med school. B's don't. A's do.

Don't think star.buck is trolling you. Besides you turned age into a negative with your comments.

OP is looking for MD advice, not secondary or tertiary profession options.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Don't think star.buck is trolling you. Besides you turned age into a negative with your comments.

OP is looking for MD advice, not secondary or tertiary profession options.

Being a nontrad is not something wholeheartedly accepted by every adcom member. Goro is the biggest advocate of nontrads of any adcom member I've known or met.

A large number of adcoms consider it a weak plus, a handful a big plus. Most see it in context. Some don't like it, a few are openly derisive of it.

 

[star.buck]

Being a nontrad is not something wholeheartedly accepted by every adcom member. Goro is the biggest advocate of nontrads of any adcom member I've known or met.

A large number of adcoms consider it a weak plus, a handful a big plus. Most see it in context. Some don't like it, a few are openly derisive of it.

I don’t think you belong in the non-trad forum.. unless you’re a troll, of course. Then continue to spread your negatives and discouragements...

 

[OldTwisted]

Yikes I haven't received a C grade in any class, even math. Ever. Thank God. I’d have a cow. I am that kind of a perfectionist sadly.

But realistic advice is what I asked for.

I have considered PA. A lot. Especially since I know a lot of really good mid-levels. And most people with my background seem to go that way.
But then I have that conversation in my head about the interview: “So why PA?”
“Because I love medicine but I’m old, I don’t want to still pay off school loans when I’m 80.” And I would be willing to bet that won’t fly.

 

[curbsideconsult]

Yikes I haven't received a C grade in any class, even math. Ever. Thank God. I’d have a cow. I am that kind of a perfectionist sadly.

But realistic advice is what I asked for.

I have considered PA. A lot. Especially since I know a lot of really good mid-levels. And most people with my background seem to go that way.
But then I have that conversation in my head about the interview: “So why PA?”
“Because I love medicine but I’m old, I don’t want to still pay off school loans when I’m 80.” And I would be willing to bet that won’t fly.

Honesty is the best policy, but you don't always have to be THAT honest. You can say something like "I love medicine and at this point in my life, at my age, I'm eager to increase my clinical knowledge and skills in order to treat patients more effectively than I'm doing now as an EMT." It's 100% honest and those savvy enough will read between the lines.

Regarding your bachelor's: is there any way you can speed up the timeline by taking classes over the summer and/or winter sessions? You might be able to shave off a year. As an older non-trad myself (currently MD2) I completely understand the value of saving a year at this stage in the game.

 

[parabellum]

I think you'd be on a respectable timeline going 18-21 credits a semester and summer sessions. You can also look into if it would be faster to do a non-science undergrad with the intention of going for a 12-18 month post-bac with potential linkages. I mean don't go any faster than you can keep up with, but there are options.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Yikes I haven't received a C grade in any class, even math. Ever. Thank God. I’d have a cow. I am that kind of a perfectionist sadly.

But realistic advice is what I asked for.

I have considered PA. A lot. Especially since I know a lot of really good mid-levels. And most people with my background seem to go that way.
But then I have that conversation in my head about the interview: “So why PA?”
“Because I love medicine but I’m old, I don’t want to still pay off school loans when I’m 80.” And I would be willing to bet that won’t fly.

If you think you can maintain a 3.7+ in both science and non-science coursework, get an 80th percentile or better on the MCAT, find shadowing and volunteering, and interview well, then I think MD/DO remains a viable option, with a few caveats:

1. You'll be 51-53 when you start earning. Debt free at 57-58 if payback is aggressive, 65 if you spend like most people. Probably not retiring before late 70s.
2. This may impose hardship on your family if you already have one, or significantly impact the ability to form one if you don't.
3. Narrow people inside and outside of medicine will judge you as being out of place, some will actively discriminate. So thick skin is required.

I don't deny that medicine is an incredibly rewarding path....going into the field is the best thing I ever did...but its a very long and sometimes steep climb. Go in with eyes open, and don't throw PA away on account of the fact that it'd be an awkward interview...the MD/DO interviews will also be awkward.

 

[OldTwisted]

Honesty is the best policy, but you don't always have to be THAT honest. You can say something like "I love medicine and at this point in my life, at my age, I'm eager to increase my clinical knowledge and skills in order to treat patients more effectively than I'm doing now as an EMT." It's 100% honest and those savvy enough will read between the lines.

Regarding your bachelor's: is there any way you can speed up the timeline by taking classes over the summer and/or winter sessions? You might be able to shave off a year. As an older non-trad myself (currently MD2) I completely understand the value of saving a year at this stage in the game.

I have zero qualms about doing extra classes and going over summer and winter terms. I may not be able to do anything this summer because I am attempting to transfer to a local university for this Fall. There's not much more I can do online through my current university on a science track, and I've got *most* of my gen eds out of the way. The university I really, very much want to go to is sadly 3 hours away and we simply can't move until 11/2019. The transfer advisor at that university said to keep in touch with him until I can move. Though I'm sure that was just being nice. But boy getting into that school for undergrad I feel would seriously help my case to getting into their next school, since they offer both MD and PA.

My second choice for local university is an hour away and doesn't do Fall transfers, and if I read their transfer requirements, I'd need 45 hours. That's kind of nuts. My third choice is half an hour away and trying to get communication out of them is like waiting for Godot.

I can't imagine not doing a science degree for my undergrad.

 

[Deleted member 750603]

Here's the thing.

Unless you are non-traditional student yourself your advise is absolutely useless (most of the time). I'm sorry if that sounds mean but it is true.

Here's why. You have ZERO frame of reference from which to understand where people come from to be at a point to go to med school in their 30's or 40's. To be in that position and reconcile with the decision to finally go for it means a lot more than finances. It mean so much more than finances and the mere mention of the subject is quite trite, myopic, and provides zero foundation to make a decision. EVERYBODY and their grandma understands med school debt, so that is not some insight you're providing.

Adoms value young students and adcoms value older students. Adcoms don't like young students and adcoms don't like older students. Again, this is not insight, it's just distribution. You will find every possibility in life and so what? Now what? Freeze? Do nothing? Take advise from strangers? Get younger?

It's quite simple. If you want to become a physician then do everything within your means to become one. I assume since you are here that is your goal. WHY on earth would you take anyone else's opinion about what your life should be like. You don't fit some traditional mold that most people are used to and so what? If everything was followed to some formula we would all be driving the same gray car, living in identical towns and in identical buildings.

What if you die with debt loving what you do? Is that the worst thing to have happened in life? People die hating what they do AND in debt. Is it an automatic thing that you will become so much more successful if you don't pursue medicine? Seriously now.

 

[Deleted member 750603]

You are older yes. No one will say "no no no you're young don't worry about it". It doesn't matter though, facts are facts and you can't change that but now is time to act not worry about what people tell you.

You will either get accepted or not and you can make that decision then or it will be made for you. But don't let other people make your decisions for you before you even start.

 

[star.buck]

Here's the thing.

Unless you are non-traditional student yourself your advise is absolutely useless (most of the time). I'm sorry if that sounds mean but it is true.

Here's why. You have ZERO frame of reference from which to understand where people come from to be at a point to go to med school in their 30's or 40's. To be in that position and reconcile with the decision to finally go for it means a lot more than finances. It mean so much more than finances and the mere mention of the subject is quite trite, myopic, and provides zero foundation to make a decision. EVERYBODY and their grandma understands med school debt, so that is not some insight you're providing.

Adoms value young students and adcoms value older students. Adcoms don't like young students and adcoms don't like older students. Again, this is not insight, it's just distribution. You will find every possibility in life and so what? Now what? Freeze? Do nothing? Take advise from strangers? Get younger?

It's quite simple. If you want to become a physician then do everything within your means to become one. I assume since you are here that is your goal. WHY on earth would you take anyone else's opinion about what your life should be like. You don't fit some traditional mold that most people are used to and so what? If everything was followed to some formula we would all be driving the same gray car, living in identical towns and in identical buildings.

What if you die with debt loving what you do? Is that the worst thing to have happened in life? People die hating what they do AND in debt. Is it an automatic thing that you will become so much more successful if you don't pursue medicine? Seriously now.

I’d love to know YOUR story...

 

[Deleted member 750603]

Suffice it say that not everyone has the opportunity to be born in this country and into a family that went to college, that values education, that can provide guidance and opportunities in life to pursue your interests. Not until you are in position to that for yourself can your own dreams an aspirations be actualized.

It is what it is but to have come from absolute poverty and to let interest rates, loan to debt ratios, and whatever other financial term that is as absurd as the green piece of paper this world revolves around stand in your way of your dreams is as insignificant as the specks of dust we are the entire galaxy.

If you are position to follow your dreams then you are in a position of privilege and to not follow through is a waste.

 

[LUCPM]

I started med school in my early 40s and I will be PGY3 in a couple of months. One thing that has helped me the most during this journey was definitely not my age but my work/life experience usually gave me a different perspective when things got rough. Evetually we all cross the same finish line.

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk

 

[OldTwisted]

Suffice it say that not everyone has the opportunity to be born in this country and into a family that went to college, that values education, that can provide guidance and opportunities in life to pursue your interests. Not until you are in position to that for yourself can your own dreams an aspirations be actualized.

It is what it is but to have come from absolute poverty and to let interest rates, loan to debt ratios, and whatever other financial term that is as absurd as the green piece of paper this world revolves around stand in your way of your dreams is as insignificant as the specks of dust we are the entire galaxy.

If you are position to follow your dreams then you are in a position of privilege and to not follow through is a waste.

Bravo! Unfortunately, I know from experience what it's like to come from absolute poverty. My perspective is slightly different from most. And that's one of the things that is intimidating me. I will be competing against young adults that have been groomed for medical school.
I generally don't take no for an answer, if I'm told no, I want to know why and what I can do to turn it into a yes.

You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Here's the thing.

Unless you are bleedy and boundary-less in announcing your status as a non-traditional student yourself your advice is absolutely useless (most of the time). I'm sorry if that sounds mean but it is true.

In midst of a lot of really great people here, there are some level 9000, cluster b weirdos on this site who seem to be easily inadvertently injured during the course of simple conversation. I personally prefer to keep my identity at "totally paranoid" levels.

It's quite simple. If you want to become a physician then do everything within your means to become one. I assume since you are here that is your goal. WHY on earth would you take anyone else's opinion about what your life should be like. You don't fit some traditional mold that most people are used to and so what? If everything was followed to some formula we would all be driving the same gray car, living in identical towns and in identical buildings.

While I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, I would point out that there are a lot of emotions here.

Some people make good emotional decisions, many do not. Most I think make the best decisions by balancing a mix of facts, analysis, and feelings.

Does the OP have or want a family? If so, this probably deserves to be weighed. Does the OP have hopes to retire at 65 or similar? If so, this also probably deserves some consideration.

By no means am I saying that they shouldn't go for it on account of age. Indeed, that would be silly in the face of so many successful nontrads. I simply think the OP should bring a realistic basket of expectations to the process.

 

[star.buck]

Who defines these "expectations"? Others, who have different life experiences. Expectations are simply interpretations, based on one person's opinion. To live a live of expectations (synonyms: suppositions, assumptions, presumptions, conjectures, surmises, calculations, predictions, hopes) is to live a life that impedes actions.

In all truth, most did not "expect" me to get into medical school. Most "expected" me to fail the MCAT, then the first round of applications, most "expected" me to live a very different life, everyone "expected" I'd have a plan B. This will be the same with many people in the OP's life. She doesn't need more "expectations" thrown at her, there are enough of them from every angle and every tone of voice. If she has the heart, gumption, the grit, and the determination to be a physician - she can over come "expectations" and achieve what ever the heck she wants to.

I'd suggest anyone and everyone to never be the person who throws "expectations" on other people in an attempt to slow them down and give them a reality check that will impede their future. Life does enough of that fecal material already. We need more physicians, with hearts and minds who want to serve and give their lives to the profession - and the non-traditionals with stories and profound depth are the some of the greatest ones who will not only serve, but will make a deep impact on the lives they touch. These non-traditionals also aren't usually the people who want a nice cozy 401k and a retirement package by the time they're 65.

Be a builder. Not a breaker.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Who defines these "expectations"? Others, who have different life experiences. Expectations are simply interpretations, based on one person's opinion. To live a live of expectations (synonyms: suppositions, assumptions, presumptions, conjectures, surmises, calculations, predictions, hopes) is to live a life that impedes actions.

In all truth, most did not "expect" me to get into medical school. Most "expected" me to fail the MCAT, then the first round of applications, most "expected" me to live a very different life, everyone "expected" I'd have a plan B. This will be the same with many people in the OP's life. She doesn't need more stupid "expectations" thrown at her, there are enough of them from every angle and every tone of voice. If she has the heart, gumption, the grit, and the determination to be a physician - she can over come "expectations" and achieve what ever the heck she wants to. One of the most amazing women in my own class is nearing a decade older than me, and I'm mid 30's - and she's going to change the world.

I'd suggest anyone and everyone to never be the person who throws "expectations" on other people in an attempt to slow them down and give them a reality check that will impede their future. Life does enough of that fecal material already. We need more physicians, with hearts and minds who want to serve and give their lives to the profession - and the non-traditionals with stories and profound depth are the some of the greatest ones who will not only serve, but will make a deep impact on the lives they touch. These non-traditionals also aren't usually the people who want a nice cozy 401k and a retirement package by the time they're 65.

Be a builder. Not a breaker.

You're displacing onto me, and frankly the level of emotionality here is bordering on inappropriate.

Saying "go in with reasonable expectations about the challenges and opportunity costs" is not the same thing as telling someone not to live the life they want or to let their lives be governed by the opinions of other people.

 

[star.buck]

You're displacing onto me, and frankly the level of emotionality here is bordering on inappropriate.

Saying "go in with reasonable expectations about the challenges and opportunity costs" is not the same thing as telling someone not to live the life they want.

It's sad you feel emotions are inappropriate - oops, there I was being emotional again...

I see what you're saying on the displacement though... interesting. I shall ponder that, perhaps after a period of suppression.

However, I did not quote you - so there is no proof of intention that I was displacing onto anyone in particular... perhaps I was musing on the word "expectation". Could it be, that you are displacing my potential displacement?

I will agree with you, on a few things. It’s always good to know what one is getting into, based on trends and the experiences of others. So, yes, medical school can be extremely difficult and demanding, it will take time away from loved ones. Yes, there is an immense amount of debt (which can be truncated with repayment programs, sign on bonuses, scholarships, etc). Yes, perhaps worst, there is a very large consumption of time to just get to the point of practicing medicine as a physician.

There is also the uphill battle most older applicants face, and there will be some descrimination. These are facts that cannot be escaped. However, used wisely, the non traditional perspective can be a great asset both to get into medical school and as a physician.

That said, I don’t think anyone can wisely walk into this profession not realizing these costs - and I think the usual non traditional students are even more keenly aware of these life costs than the average traditional student in their 20’s.

We do agree on some things, and I do think your points have some value... but I also think they come with some naivety. You may be a non traditional, and I respect your desire for anonymity. However, you speak as one who is young, extremely intelligent, and slightly jaded. Time will tell, and I do wish you the best in your endeavors, this being said with genuine emotion... which I never feel is inappropriate.