Old vs. New Schools

[JamesLMT]

There is always so much debate stating that older schools are better. Older schools have a better established reputation, more rotation sites, and thier "kinks" worked out.

New schools have more kinks, no reputation, and may have some difficulty with rotations, but nothing that will break your education. I mean, how did the great schools become great? It was the pioneers that went before us that made that school what it is.

I have a friend that took an offer from a more established school just becuase it was more established. He didn't like the location, or the setting. I personally just don't get it. What are your thoughts?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

More established school have many benefits for attending. Think of it this way, Stanford & public university 1 accepts you. Which one will you probably want to go to? Also more established schools are also a plus on residency placements.

 

[Atom bum]

More established school have many benefits for attending. Think of it this way, Stanford & public university 1 accepts you. Which one will you probably want to go to? Also more established schools are also a plus on residency placements.

I would say this is very debatable. Personally I don't think it matters, it's all what you make of yourself while you are in school. A colleague of a Dr I shadowed went to a public University in Texas for med school but completed her residency at Harvard. I doubt the fact that just because you attended Stanford you have a better shot at some fancy residency. Of course I'm no expert so feel free to disprove my assumption with facts.

The biggest benefit I can think of are rotation sites that don't require moving away from the school, but that's just a personal preference of mine.

 

[MightyMoose]

I would say this is very debatable. Personally I don't think it matters, it's all what you make of yourself while you are in school. A colleague of a Dr I shadowed went to a public University in Texas for med school but completed her residency at Harvard. I doubt the fact that just because you attended Stanford you have a better shot at some fancy residency. Of course I'm no expert so feel free to disprove my assumption with facts.

The biggest benefit I can think of are rotation sites that don't require moving away from the school, but that's just a personal preference of mine.

I disagree. I'll preface that by saying that I am strongly considering attending a new university, but some new schools have great rotation sites (Touro - NV).

Now you guys are both diverging... This thread is new vs. old, not Ivy vs. public. Realistically, old schools are better in some regards and worse in others.

The real benefits of going to an old vs. new school as I see them are:

Pros Old:
1) Networking connections with alumni (this is huuuuuge btw)
2) A tried an true method for the curriculum that usually works
3) More scholarships, typically donated by alumni.
4) Name recognition. It takes a while to brand a product.

Pros New:
1) More dynamic curriculum (this can be good or bad).
2) Could be in a more favorable location for you.


Overall, I believe the #1 for old schools is worth it's weight in gold and is the only reason I'm not 100% committed to going to a new school quite yet.

 

[DrYoda]

It's probably not true across the board... but some of the new schools give nice financial aid to entice people to matriculate.

 

[CunningCaregivr]

I disagree. I'll preface that by saying that I am strongly considering attending a new university, but some new schools have great rotation sites (Touro - NV).

Now you guys are both diverging... This thread is new vs. old, not Ivy vs. public. Realistically, old schools are better in some regards and worse in others.

The real benefits of going to an old vs. new school as I see them are:

Pros Old:
1) Networking connections with alumni (this is huuuuuge btw)
2) A tried an true method for the curriculum that usually works
3) More scholarships, typically donated by alumni.
4) Name recognition. It takes a while to brand a product.

Pros New:
1) More dynamic curriculum (this can be good or bad).
2) Could be in a more favorable location for you.


Overall, I believe the #1 for old schools is worth it's weight in gold and is the only reason I'm not 100% committed to going to a new school quite yet.

+1 OLD: MS CLINICAL ROTATIONS - Clinical rotation sites are established in quantity and quality. I currently work in a clinical rotation site for PNWU (3rd year of existence). I have talked with the MS-3's in the inaugural class, who are facing issues of minimal options and the occaisional sub-par preceptor. It seems like the wheels need a few years of greasing for comparable clinical experiences.

+1 NEW: SMARTER START-UPS - @ PNWU, they have designed curriculum based on other programs that have had the most successful board pass rates. Their clinical rotations are also under a "community based model", where students' rotations are based out of a particular community (~14 options throughout NW), rather than scattered about like some traditional programs.

 

[crazynate]

quick question....what are the new schools and what are the old schools? I understand the really old vs. really new such as:

the old schools: KCOM,CCOM,PCOM, NYCOM
The New schools: RVUCOM, PNWU, Touros,

What about NSU,AZCOM, Western etc. where do they stand?

 

[MightyMoose]

quick question....what are the new schools and what are the old schools? I understand the really old vs. really new such as:

the old schools: KCOM,CCOM,PCOM, NYCOM
The New schools: RVUCOM, PNWU, Touros,

What about NSU,AZCOM, Western etc. where do they stand?

Here is a list that you can sort by est. date and degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States

 

[jslo85]

Going to an established medical school as opposed to a new one obviously have positives and negatives with the more "practical" positives being associated with an older and "established" school.

For instance, if you attend a reputable "established" school (ie. KCOM or CCOM) you have a pretty solid idea of what you are "getting into" based off of the performance of many classes prior. You have many match lists to go off of as well as pass rates and average board scores. You also are more likely to find solid rotation sites (KCOM has theirs set up where you will only need to move once) and rotation sites at larger hospitals and medical centers as opposed to smaller community hospitals/clinics that many of the newer schools have secured. You will also have the confidence that you have a curriculum that has stood the test of time and staff that will assist you throughout the clinical rotation sites. As for residency programs, that is mostly based off of your own board scores, evaluations obtained from preceptors, and your own CV (publications, research, etc).

But are all new schools lacking in those regards? Absolutely not. The few names tossed around in here such as RVU will most likely have other issues, namely the negative stigma surrounding their for-profit status as well as their unfavorable financial aid/loans plan. Other new schools like LMU-DCOM have a reputation for being the most technologically advanced school that integrates simulations into educating their medical students which is a plus in my eyes. The downside as with most other provisionally accredited schools would be you don't have a match list to see where most of their students place into. (sorry sort of rambling now) Another thing to keep in mind are most newer schools have lower board scores (generalizing). If I remember correctly, Touro NY's first class had a 76% pass rate for the COMLEX compared to say, an established school like LECOM-E which has a 98% rate or their branch campus in Florida which had a 100% pass rate. I will say though that many of the newer osteopathic schools are in favorable locations like Touro NY in Harlem, Touro NV in Henderson Nevada, RVU in a nice suburban area in Colorado, etc. as opposed to say KCOM in Kirksville Missouri or KCUMB in Kansas City.

 

[Skippygonenuts]

Going to an established medical school as opposed to a new one obviously have positives and negatives with the more "practical" positives being associated with an older and "established" school.

For instance, if you attend a reputable "established" school (ie. KCOM or CCOM) you have a pretty solid idea of what you are "getting into" based off of the performance of many classes prior. You have many match lists to go off of as well as pass rates and average board scores. You also are more likely to find solid rotation sites (KCOM has theirs set up where you will only need to move once) and rotation sites at larger hospitals and medical centers as opposed to smaller community hospitals/clinics that many of the newer schools have secured. You will also have the confidence that you have a curriculum that has stood the test of time and staff that will assist you throughout the clinical rotation sites. As for residency programs, that is mostly based off of your own board scores, evaluations obtained from preceptors, and your own CV (publications, research, etc).

But are all new schools lacking in those regards? Absolutely not. The few names tossed around in here such as RVU will most likely have other issues, namely the negative stigma surrounding their for-profit status as well as their unfavorable financial aid/loans plan. Other new schools like LMU-DCOM have a reputation for being the most technologically advanced school that integrates simulations into educating their medical students which is a plus in my eyes. The downside as with most other provisionally accredited schools would be you don't have a match list to see where most of their students place into. (sorry sort of rambling now) Another thing to keep in mind are most newer schools have lower board scores (generalizing). If I remember correctly, Touro NY's first class had a 76% pass rate for the COMLEX compared to say, an established school like LECOM-E which has a 98% rate or their branch campus in Florida which had a 100% pass rate. I will say though that many of the newer osteopathic schools are in favorable locations like Touro NY in Harlem, Touro NV in Henderson Nevada, RVU in a nice suburban area in Colorado, etc. as opposed to say KCOM in Kirksville Missouri or KCUMB in Kansas City.

my hat goes off to u

 

[group_theory]

I would say this is very debatable. Personally I don't think it matters, it's all what you make of yourself while you are in school. A colleague of a Dr I shadowed went to a public University in Texas for med school but completed her residency at Harvard. I doubt the fact that just because you attended Stanford you have a better shot at some fancy residency. Of course I'm no expert so feel free to disprove my assumption with facts.

The biggest benefit I can think of are rotation sites that don't require moving away from the school, but that's just a personal preference of mine.

I always wondered why on SDN do premeds and preclinical med students continue to believe this, despite the numerous postings by residents, fellows, and attendings who have gone through the process.
Is there something you guys know that we don't?

 

[Rollo]

You guys need to listen to people ahead of you like us medical students, residents, and attendings when we say that what matters at the end of the day is, not what you know but who you know.

 

[JamesLMT]

You guys need to listen to people ahead of you like us medical students, residents, and attendings when we say that what matters at the end of the day is, not what you know but who you know.

kay, I'm going to barely pass all my classes fail my steps a few times before i pass and hurt my patients on accident. Then I am gonna get to know a guy at mayo and they are going to take me cuz i know that guy at mayo.....


Its very important but not everything...

 

[Rollo]

kay, I'm going to barely pass all my classes fail my steps a few times before i pass and hurt my patients on accident. Then I am gonna get to know a guy at mayo and they are going to take me cuz i know that guy at mayo.....


Its very important but not everything...

Quit being a smartass and pay attention.

Obviously, you got to be competent. Average board scores + knowing the guy at mayo will get you the spot over someone who is unknown + great board scores.

Do your research: http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2010v3.pdf

 

[wolverinepwns]

So I have a question, I am very intersteding in Lecom-B's all PBL curriculum, however if I am accepted to KCOM lets say, location/tuition/... not being an issue based on what I've read from the older and experienced members I should be going to KCOM. As I'm going through interviews I have been thinking alot about this issue. I'd appreciate any advice from the 3rd and 4th year MS and residents and attendings. thank you

 

[JamesLMT]

Quit being a smartass and pay attention.

Obviously, you got to be competent. Average board scores + knowing the guy at mayo will get you the spot over someone who is unknown + great board scores.

Do your research: http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2010v3.pdf

So what you are saying for everyone here is, do well in school but focus on making connections above all else. Also, this is the BIGGEST argument for attending a well established school i guess. yes?

 

[Atom bum]

I always wondered why on SDN do premeds and preclinical med students continue to believe this, despite the numerous postings by residents, fellows, and attendings who have gone through the process.
Is there something you guys know that we don't?

I'm not sure what the crap you are talking about. I have not seen a single post from a resident, attending, or fellow that has said anything about anything relating to this matter. As far as I am concerned hard work is just as important as networking. So thanks for jumping to the conclusion that I am ignoring information that I have never been given and thanks for the condescending response.

I will continue to believe it. I refuse to believe that its All about networking.


I must be having a bad day because your post is really bothering me. I read a lot on this pre-DO forum and I do not recall a single post by a resident, fellow, or attending regarding this matter. I have spoken with physicians at great length regarding how they got into their positions and not a single one has mentioned how important it is to network. If you are trying to point out some other flaw in my logic than you will have to be more specific because I don't see it.

 

[Rollo]

So what you are saying for everyone here is, do well in school but focus on making connections above all else. Also, this is the BIGGEST argument for attending a well established school i guess. yes?

Precisely.

It is priceless to make valuable connections with attendings and program directors while in medical school. Think about it. Residency is a job, that means that the current residents and the residency director will have to work with you for the next, at least, 3 years. Do you think they will pick you if they've known you for awhile and are aware that you're a hard-working, easy-going individual? Or will they pick somebody who may be slightly more qualified than you on paper (boards, grades) but they know very little of who that person is?

Having an established school has advantages in this aspect in the following ways:

- Large alumni network. This means that you can track down these graduates, shadow them, let them know you're interested in their field, and they will be more than happy to help you out.

- Reputation. Surrounding hospitals and physicians will have experience working with students from the school and think highly of its students. Of course, there are exceptions though.

- Residency programs. Established schools will have many of their own residency programs and affiliate hospitals with residency programs. I cannot emphasize how important it is to have a home residency program! The exposure you will get to the field, opportunities you will have to form relationships with current residents and attendings, research opportunities, etc. Not to mention, during interview season, home students will be the first group of students the programs will interview (granted they have been good students).

So yes, it will be to your benefit down the road if you decide to go to an established school.

I'm aware of the paradox of "newer schools need time and students to grow" but why take the chance? Why make your life as a medical student harder than it needs to be?

 

[group_theory]

I'm not sure what the crap you are talking about. I have not seen a single post from a resident, attending, or fellow that has said anything about anything relating to this matter. As far as I am concerned hard work is just as important as networking. So thanks for jumping to the conclusion that I am ignoring information that I have never been given and thanks for the condescending response.

I will continue to believe it. I refuse to believe that its All about networking.


I must be having a bad day because your post is really bothering me. I read a lot on this pre-DO forum and I do not recall a single post by a resident, fellow, or attending regarding this matter. I have spoken with physicians at great length regarding how they got into their positions and not a single one has mentioned how important it is to network. If you are trying to point out some other flaw in my logic than you will have to be more specific because I don't see it.

Not sure where people got the idea that getting a residency position is all about networking. If you read my original post, I underline the part "it's all what you make of yourself while you are in school" that I disagree with.

My original post wasn't directed at you per se (probably why you took such great offense) but more at the general comments that I've seen lately on SDN that board scores and grades are all that matters.

If you read the DO forum, you will see in some threads people claiming that board scores and grades are the great equalizer and that everything else doesn't matter. That simply isn't true (from my experience going through the residency app many years ago, and my experience in helping my program with the rank list). There are a few posts (in various threads in the DO forum) from other residents/fellows/attendings that have supported my position.

Now does that mean grades, class rank, board scores, clinical rotations doesn't matter? Of course not - they matter a great deal. But they are not the great equalizer that some people would like to believe. Someone who barely passes Step 1 and does OK on the wards will not match into Internal Medicine at Mayo or Mass Gen or UCSF, even if they have connections.

But someone who scores 90 (double digit score) on Step 1, attends a highly rank school, and has a letter of recommendation from a medicine attending who holds an academic appointment (ie associate professor of medicine at Famous Medical School), along with a Chairman Letter ... will more than likely be ranked higher than someone who scores 99 (double digit score), attending a brand new no-name school, and has LORs from a medicine attending from some unknown community hospital

Class Rank, Grades, and Board Scores are important, but so are other intangibles (not just networking) such as quality (and prestige) of rotation, the preceived "academic rigors" of your school and rotations, extra-curricular activities, etc.


When it comes to resident selections, I want someone who is knowledgeble but also reliable and fun to work with. What good is having a fellow resident who knows all of Harrison/Robbins but can't apply it to clinical situation, or shows up late, or has a personality disorder that conflicts with fellow residents/attendings/nursing staff?

I have seen applicants who are ranked high on the rank list (above other applicants who have higher board scores/class rank) due to feedback from other residents who have worked with the applicants. I have also seen applicants removed from the rank list due to negative feedbacks from residents (i'm lucky that my program director as well as other faculty members highly respect and seek our opinions on applicants since "you guys will have to work with them" and why residents participate in creating the rank list)

If you check out that nrmp link posted earlier, you will see that board scores/class rank matters, but other things like LORs and previous experiences with the applicants holds a lot of weight too.



**Oh, and with all the new DO schools - it's hard for ACGME PDs to know which one is which. So what some are doing is sticking with applicants from known schools (where PDs have had experience with their alumni as residents) and avoiding new schools (or more accurately, schools they don't recognize). With residency spots remaining fixed, and the huge influx of applicants, residency programs can afford to be more selective.

 

[jslo85]

So I have a question, I am very intersteding in Lecom-B's all PBL curriculum, however if I am accepted to KCOM lets say, location/tuition/... not being an issue based on what I've read from the older and experienced members I should be going to KCOM. As I'm going through interviews I have been thinking alot about this issue. I'd appreciate any advice from the 3rd and 4th year MS and residents and attendings. thank you

First off, I'm definitely not a 3rd or fourth year medical student or any of the above. So with that disclaimer:

Older schools don't offer PBL curriculums because they have been following the traditional lecture based pathway focusing on systems. If you wanted a PBL style curriculum yet wanted to attend a more "established" school you can choose something like Nova which has a hybrid curriculum of both pathways though traditional lecture is more heavily emphasized.

People say that PBL prepares you for the boards better than a traditional lecture pathway which is true and kind of subjective at the same time in my opinion. It's alot more on the individual and how he/she is able to time manage which gives the more significant advantage. Yes you will be introduced to using differential diagnosis far earlier than a systems based lecture pathway, and yes you will learn to approach clinical questions far earlier because of your PBL sessions and case studies that you need to tackle. Yes you will also have a more comprehensive knowledge of subject matter because you learn from reading the textbook and cross referencing multiple sources rather than excerpts from ppt slides. But to me, the main advantage is instead of sitting in lecture for 6-8 hours a day, you can use your time far more efficiently (again up to the individual) if you're a better independent studier and therefore have far more time for other things.

Again, just my opinion, but if you were to choose between LECOM-B and KCOM ignoring all those things you listed above, you're comparing two very comparable institutions for board scores and pass rates (bradenton was 100% last year and KCOM is always up there). KCOM has far more clinical sites to choose from whereas LECOM-B has most of theirs in Florida, Georgia and shares many of those that Erie has as well. KCOM will focus alot more on OMM (their lab is simply amazing) and you will be actually dissecting (from the very beginning to the end, fat, fascia, etc.) under Dr. Uray's watch whereas PBL curriculums use a 3D imaging software instead for anatomy.

Of course you're not limited to just LECOM for PBL even though they're probably the first osteopathic school to have it (talking about Erie). ATSU-SOMA is also an all PBL school with Touro-NV and Nova trying to integrate it into their traditional curriculum.

 

[wolverinepwns]

First off, I'm definitely not a 3rd or fourth year medical student or any of the above. So with that disclaimer:

Older schools don't offer PBL curriculums because they have been following the traditional lecture based pathway focusing on systems. If you wanted a PBL style curriculum yet wanted to attend a more "established" school you can choose something like Nova which has a hybrid curriculum of both pathways though traditional lecture is more heavily emphasized.

People say that PBL prepares you for the boards better than a traditional lecture pathway which is true and kind of subjective at the same time in my opinion. It's alot more on the individual and how he/she is able to time manage which gives the more significant advantage. Yes you will be introduced to using differential diagnosis far earlier than a systems based lecture pathway, and yes you will learn to approach clinical questions far earlier because of your PBL sessions and case studies that you need to tackle. Yes you will also have a more comprehensive knowledge of subject matter because you learn from reading the textbook and cross referencing multiple sources rather than excerpts from ppt slides. But to me, the main advantage is instead of sitting in lecture for 6-8 hours a day, you can use your time far more efficiently (again up to the individual) if you're a better independent studier and therefore have far more time for other things.

Again, just my opinion, but if you were to choose between LECOM-B and KCOM ignoring all those things you listed above, you're comparing two very comparable institutions for board scores and pass rates (bradenton was 100% last year and KCOM is always up there). KCOM has far more clinical sites to choose from whereas LECOM-B has most of theirs in Florida, Georgia and shares many of those that Erie has as well. KCOM will focus alot more on OMM (their lab is simply amazing) and you will be actually dissecting (from the very beginning to the end, fat, fascia, etc.) under Dr. Uray's watch whereas PBL curriculums use a 3D imaging software instead for anatomy.

Of course you're not limited to just LECOM for PBL even though they're probably the first osteopathic school to have it (talking about Erie). ATSU-SOMA is also an all PBL school with Touro-NV and Nova trying to integrate it into their traditional curriculum.

yeah thank for that info! I definately feel that a PBL system will benefit me greatly as it fits my learning style and the idea of 5-8 hrs of lecture and ppts doesn't sound too great frankly. So I am sitting here debating whether I should attend a school like Western or DMU or should I go with a school that is more pbl based such as lecom or nova. and as group_theory mentioned with residency programs becoming more picky I wonder what the smart choice would be.

 

[jslo85]

Honestly speaking, go with what you feel most comfortable in and that suits you. As I said, I'm not a medical student but I'm in the SMP at LECOM and I can tell you that sitting in the lecture hall listening to the basic core faculty the entire day is really tough sometimes. You find professors who you think lecture well and others who do not. With the latter, things start becoming painful really quickly and you can't wait to get back home to start looking through Guyton and Hall or your BRS book for clarification.

I'm not going to come out and start slandering other schools but even at established institutions, you aren't necessarily going to enjoy all the professors. I have 3 friends going to Western as first years and in their own words, there are some parts of their academic curriculum that they feel is not adequate with regards to the professors. Now I have never heard that yet about KCOM nor do I have any knowledge of DMU but this is just an example that I bring up because I hear it from those that I personally know and trust.

As Rollo mentioned above, residency programs care mostly about your clinical evaluations from your preceptors, class rank, board scores, CV, and who you know. All the schools you cited above are quality and I doubt you can go wrong looking at it on paper. I honestly believe that location and how well you connected (that "click" feeling that you get when you visit the campus during your interview and talk with the students/staff and see the school) and your learning style (in regards to pathways) should be what determines where you should attend. Going to LECOM-B as opposed to going to DMU in itself is not going to limit where you are going to be for residency, your own efforts/merit in the next four years will.

 

[Aaron Earles]

There is always so much debate stating that older schools are better. Older schools have a better established reputation, more rotation sites, and thier "kinks" worked out.

New schools have more kinks, no reputation, and may have some difficulty with rotations, but nothing that will break your education. I mean, how did the great schools become great? It was the pioneers that went before us that made that school what it is.

I have a friend that took an offer from a more established school just becuase it was more established. He didn't like the location, or the setting. I personally just don't get it. What are your thoughts?

I would agree that older schools have better established reputation, whether it be good or bad. I attended PCSOM and started in 2004, seven years after the first class matriculated. Honestly, most people (including physicians, patients, and medical school applicants) have never heard of my medical school. During my interviews for fellowship, some of the people interviewing me would say, "Pikeville has a medical school?"

I think your friend made a big mistake going to a place that he/she did not like. You have to live in that area for the next 2 to 4 years and if you are not happy, you will not be as successful in your endeavor. Having said that, it also depends on what your friend has decided to do after medical school. Some residency programs are much more competitive than others. You also have to consider if you think you may do a fellowship after residency.

I would say this is very debatable. Personally I don't think it matters, it's all what you make of yourself while you are in school. A colleague of a Dr I shadowed went to a public University in Texas for med school but completed her residency at Harvard. I doubt the fact that just because you attended Stanford you have a better shot at some fancy residency. Of course I'm no expert so feel free to disprove my assumption with facts.

The biggest benefit I can think of are rotation sites that don't require moving away from the school, but that's just a personal preference of mine.

With all due respect, I tend to agree and disagree with this post. I agree that you absolutely must apply yourself during medical school regardless of where you train. The more active you are and the more leadership positions you hold the greater your potential will be. You also need to maintain good academic standing. During my recent interviews, I have been asked about my leadership opportunities in both medical school and in residency. I have not been asked about my grades so much, or my board scores.

Precisely.

It is priceless to make valuable connections with attendings and program directors while in medical school. Think about it. Residency is a job, that means that the current residents and the residency director will have to work with you for the next, at least, 3 years. Do you think they will pick you if they've known you for awhile and are aware that you're a hard-working, easy-going individual? Or will they pick somebody who may be slightly more qualified than you on paper (boards, grades) but they know very little of who that person is?

Having an established school has advantages in this aspect in the following ways:

- Large alumni network. This means that you can track down these graduates, shadow them, let them know you're interested in their field, and they will be more than happy to help you out.

- Reputation. Surrounding hospitals and physicians will have experience working with students from the school and think highly of its students. Of course, there are exceptions though.

- Residency programs. Established schools will have many of their own residency programs and affiliate hospitals with residency programs. I cannot emphasize how important it is to have a home residency program! The exposure you will get to the field, opportunities you will have to form relationships with current residents and attendings, research opportunities, etc. Not to mention, during interview season, home students will be the first group of students the programs will interview (granted they have been good students).

So yes, it will be to your benefit down the road if you decide to go to an established school.

I'm aware of the paradox of "newer schools need time and students to grow" but why take the chance? Why make your life as a medical student harder than it needs to be?

I have to agree with some of what Rollo said. I think a lot of people downscale the importance of "knowing" a person they are interviewing. The last person I want to work with in residency is a snot-nosed know it all only interested in playing doctor. I also think people underestimate the importance of knowing influential people. I have had numerous attendings at my residency spot offer "to make a few calls" to the programs I am applying to. Especially in Osteopathic Medicine, your connections are vital.

My program started the year I was an intern. My two colleagues and I were the first residents in our entire hospital. That was very intimidating. It has been very difficult as well because we are the ones establishing the program's reputation. We now have 12 residents in our program. We were the first internal medicine (AOA) program in Mississippi. I have been asked multiple times about our program because it is not well known. The one benefit is my exposure to procedures and the fact we are treated like attendings in many regards. I think the only reason I have been given interviews is because of my LORs and because I have scrubbed in as first assist on multiple cath lab cases. It absolutely is vital to know people, especially if you want to do a fellowship or a competitive residency.

Feel free to PM with questions.

 

[JamesLMT]

What about new campuses that are opened up in different locations by schools that are well established? Where do they fall in line? Are they considered part of the network of the home school or are they considered untested waters?

 

[Kateb4]

So I have a question, I am very intersteding in Lecom-B's all PBL curriculum, however if I am accepted to KCOM lets say, location/tuition/... not being an issue based on what I've read from the older and experienced members I should be going to KCOM. As I'm going through interviews I have been thinking alot about this issue. I'd appreciate any advice from the 3rd and 4th year MS and residents and attendings. thank you

I am a 3rd year at LECOM-B right now and I have to say I loved PBL. However, I am paying for it now because we have such a lack of rotation sites that I have to waste hours every month cold calling physicians to see if they'll take me. Our core sites are very limited at Bradenton, and I've been dropped from mine a few times already because they change their availability. Not to mention that we are competing with students from several other area schools and all of the Carribean schools who all pay for their rotation sites. I believe it is better in Erie as far as rotations go, but then you're in Erie (very limited number of PBL spots). We are able to take Erie sites, but we only get to apply for those slots after all of the Erie students take their pick.

whereas PBL curriculums use a 3D imaging software instead for anatomy.

We have cadaver labs, but there are only 4 cadavers and they are mostly prosected or dissected by the anatomists during lab. Not a strong point for LECOM in my opinion.

What about new campuses that are opened up in different locations by schools that are well established? Where do they fall in line? Are they considered part of the network of the home school or are they considered untested waters?

I'm not sure how other schools do it, but with LECOM, most of the general stuff is handled through the main campus, like financials and records. Each school has it's own interviewing process, although they do share records so if you are waitlisted at one and accepted at another you cannot hold your waitlist spot if you put a deposit on the acceptance. I know that the new LECOM at Seton Hill is basing it's program on Bradenton, so I would think that alot of the kinks would be worked out. However, there is always a settling time for faculty to really get with the program. Also, I don't know what they're going to do for their rotations. We have our own core sites, but are allowed access to Erie's once they've had their pick. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be in the first few years classes of any new school. Just my opinion though, I may be a little jaded after my rotation experiences this year.

 

[g8orlife]

I am a 3rd year at LECOM-B right now and I have to say I loved PBL. However, I am paying for it now because we have such a lack of rotation sites that I have to waste hours every month cold calling physicians to see if they'll take me.

Thank you for your honesty Kate. After reading previous posts on SDN, I asked soooo many questions to the faculty/staff during my interview about the 3rd/4th years, but never got a straight answer (the students tried to answer but they were limited since they were only in their second year)

Granted, I love love love PBL and think that anyone going to lecom-b will maximize his/her board score potential, but the rotations scare the living crap out of me. This honesty was exactly what I was looking for to help me make a much more informed decision later on.

Thank you.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Thank you for your honesty Kate. After reading previous posts on SDN, I asked soooo many questions to the faculty/staff during my interview about the 3rd/4th years, but never got a straight answer (the students tried to answer but they were limited since they were only in their second year)

Granted, I love love love PBL and think that anyone going to lecom-b will maximize his/her board score potential, but the rotations scare the living crap out of me. This honesty was exactly what I was looking for to help me make a much more informed decision later on.

Thank you.

UMDNJ, OUCOM, and NYCOM also have PBL (with limited spots), you might want to check them out as well.

 

[g8orlife]

UMDNJ, OUCOM, and NYCOM also have PBL (with limited spots), you might want to check them out as well.

Thanks a bunch, Punk!
(Usually shortened username nicknames work better )

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Thanks a bunch, Punk!
(Usually shortened username nicknames work better )

LOL..No problem.