OMFS - right out of residency

[txlonghorn]

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I know there are many figures out about the average income of an OMFS, but I am looking to find out some information about income/salary:

- Right out of residency

- 5 years out

- > 5 years out.

Do most OMFS join existing practices or start their own? For those joining practices, how many years does it generally take to become a partner? What is the usual buy in amount for a partnership?

I am looking to get this information, as I will at earliest be an OMFS at the age of 34 (assuming a 4 year program) and want to make sure that I will be adequately be able to support my family.

 

[buggzzen]

My out going chief is joining a 2person group. He signed a contract for 180g salary with a bonus package depending on production. He will make partner in 2yrs. The 2 senior partners make 500k+

 

[476515678234896]

^wow....i need to match into os asap

 

[txlonghorn]

Anyone have other details, such as buy in requirements, etc?

 

[Regmata]

You will be able to support your family more than adequately...now you should be worrying about getting into dental school and then doing well enough in dental school to get into OS

 

[aphistis]

I know there are many figures out about the average income of an OMFS, but I am looking to find out some information about income/salary:

- Right out of residency

- 5 years out

- > 5 years out.

Do most OMFS join existing practices or start their own? For those joining practices, how many years does it generally take to become a partner? What is the usual buy in amount for a partnership?

I am looking to get this information, as I will at earliest be an OMFS at the age of 34 (assuming a 4 year program) and want to make sure that I will be adequately be able to support my family.

If you cannot support your family adequately as a practicing OMFS, the problem is not your income. If you cannot support your family adequately as any kind of dentist, the problem is not your income.

 

[DMD 4 Me]

According to publications from the ADA:

The mean income for solo practitioner in OMFS is $360k with first quarter making $200k and the third quarter making $470k

These are averages...some make more and some make less. It depends on your business sense and skill etc..

 

[ObviousGuy]

I am going to assume that most high income dentists like to fly under the radar and are not reporting their annual income. Many of these 'surveys' are flawed.

Needless to say, you can do fine in any dental field except oral medicine.

 

[shamrock2006]

I think a bigger question (for me anyway)...is not how much you make right out of residency, or 5 years post residency....but what type of procedure are you doing? Why am I asking this? Well....I've spoken to quite a few oral surgeons lately who tell me that 95% of their livelihood is made working under their dental degree....i.e 3rd molar extractions. We have dentists at my school working as faculty who don't refer ANY extractions b/c they are IV/ACLS, etc. certified. I'm bringing this up because I've spent a good amount of time in the OR watching/helping out w/ cases and found myself wondering......"how much of this would I really do in private practice?". Maybe it depends on if you go 4 or 6 year...maybe it doesnt. Feel free to critique.

 

[Yahtzee]

I think a bigger question (for me anyway)...is not how much you make right out of residency, or 5 years post residency....but what type of procedure are you doing? Why am I asking this? Well....I've spoken to quite a few oral surgeons lately who tell me that 95% of their livelihood is made working under their dental degree....i.e 3rd molar extractions. We have dentists at my school working as faculty who don't refer ANY extractions b/c they are IV/ACLS, etc. certified. I'm bringing this up because I've spent a good amount of time in the OR watching/helping out w/ cases and found myself wondering......"how much of this would I really do in private practice?". Maybe it depends on if you go 4 or 6 year...maybe it doesnt. Feel free to critique.

It's mostly up to the individual practitioner. It's true that most people do make most of their income from dentoalveolar procedures because it's simple, fast and high paying without having to take call or manage sick hospital patients. If you want to do trauma or cancer, etc. there's plenty of need out there for a well trained surgeon who is willing to make certain lifestyle sacrifices.

 

[DMD 4 Me]

Yeah, I was really interested in OMFS until I realized that the most interesting stuff (to me), trauma and cancer, doesn't pay.

(Plus you need to be affiliated with a hospital.)

Therefore, in private practice, 3rds are the bread and butter.

Implants are worth noting too because they are cool and do pay

But yea, on the whole, specializing limits the number of procedures you do on a daily basis...idk if thats a road I want to take myself even if I would make more money on the average.

 

[senpai]

Yeah, I was really interested in OMFS until I realized that the most interesting stuff (to me), trauma and cancer, doesn't pay.

(Plus you need to be affiliated with a hospital.)

Therefore, in private practice, 3rds are the bread and butter.

Implants are worth noting too because they are cool and do pay

But yea, on the whole, specializing limits the number of procedures you do on a daily basis...idk if thats a road I want to take myself even if I would make more money on the average.

So you don't want to go into OMFS because you're not willing to take a pay cut in order to do have more variety and do what you think you would enjoy doing and then you say you don't want to specialize because the money isn't worth sacrificing the variety of being a GP.
The 2 arguments seem to contradict each other...Sounds like you need to do some more thinking about what you want out life...
However, an attendee in the OMFS department at my school once said if you're wishy-washy about going in to OMFS then don't do it, OMFS is too big of a committment to be wishy-washy about. Not trying to discourage you or anyone else in to pursuing a career in OMFS, but just something to think about...

 

[DrBushvine]

I am looking to get this information, as I will at earliest be an OMFS at the age of 34 (assuming a 4 year program) and want to make sure that I will be adequately be able to support my family.[/QUOTE]

34 huh? So how old are you now? It's good that you've got your life's plan laid out like that, but, it'd do you heaps good to concentrate on the studies you have at hand, then try to do your best in dental school to have any hope of getting into OMFS residency. All the best mate. By the way, my question still stands, how old are you? No, seriously, just curious.

 

[nealofgrafton]

Anyone have any numbers on what an OMFS makes that works for a hospital? It may not pay the best but I think putting someone's face back together would be much more interesting/ stimulating than taking out impacted 3rd's.

 

[armorshell]

By the way, my question still stands, how old are you? No, seriously, just curious.

I think you can figure it out based on the information he posted...

 

[DMD 4 Me]

So you don't want to go into OMFS because you're not willing to take a pay cut in order to do have more variety and do what you think you would enjoy doing and then you say you don't want to specialize because the money isn't worth sacrificing the variety of being a GP.
The 2 arguments seem to contradict each other...Sounds like you need to do some more thinking about what you want out life...
However, an attendee in the OMFS department at my school once said if you're wishy-washy about going in to OMFS then don't do it, OMFS is too big of a committment to be wishy-washy about. Not trying to discourage you or anyone else in to pursuing a career in OMFS, but just something to think about...

I'm sorry, but I am having a heard time understanding your post..

Especially the first part..

Anyway maybe you mis-understood me, what I was saying was:

On average..GP makes less than OMFS but they get to do a wider variety of procedures every day.

On average..OMFS makes more than GP but on a day to day basis they do a smaller number of procedures.

Plus it will take an additional 4-6 years to get to OMFS

So personally, I don't know if the potential for extra money is worth doing 1 or 2 types of procedures each day, especially with the extra 4 years at the minimum tacked on.

 

[DMD 4 Me]

Anyone have any numbers on what an OMFS makes that works for a hospital? It may not pay the best but I think putting someone's face back together would be much more interesting/ stimulating than taking out impacted 3rd's.

I am also curious about OMFS that work strictly in the hospital.

The ADA surveys I have only categorize OMFS in private practice.

However, I have shadowed a few different OMFS and they all do rotations in the hospital every other week (I think) and they do surgery there as well. Most of the time they are in private practice though.

I guess it makes sense because their own office is where they can make the most money, but they can still do some trauma a few times a month.

I don't know if this is the norm as I can only speak from the few OMFS that I shadowed.

 

[Yahtzee]

So personally, I don't know if the potential for extra money is worth doing 1 or 2 types of procedures each day, especially with the extra 4 years at the minimum tacked on.

That's terrible logic - today I did a hip graft for a mandible defect, fixed a second mandible and a nose, a bunch of extractions, and a thyroidectomy. Sounds like someone's trying to talk themselves out of residency.

 

[DMD 4 Me]

That's terrible logic - today I did a hip graft for a mandible defect, fixed a second mandible and a nose, a bunch of extractions, and a thyroidectomy. Sounds like someone's trying to talk themselves out of residency.

Is that a typical day? I just would be afraid I would go through all of that and end up doing 3rds all day long.

 

[senpai]

Is that a typical day? I just would be afraid I would go through all of that and end up doing 3rds all day long.

I think you may be under the misconception that a large of number of OMFSers are in private practice mainly doing Dentoalveolar (whizzies & implants) because there aren't opportunities to do the other stuff. Quite the contrary! That is where the competition is bc it's where the big bucks are. Even so, most seem to be doing extremely well...
I don't think anyone would argue that the big hospital cases are alot more fun and bad @$$, but the negative is that you aren't compensated as well and you have to deal with all the bureaucratic BS of a hospital and medicine in general. You will also have to be on call some, which some people enjoy and some do not.

So to simplify it for you, YOUR options are:

-100% hospital based OMFS: (+) Bad @$$ procedures, more fun, etc. (-) Not as much $$$, on-call some, etc.
***My Dad's good friend is chief of the Maxillofacial department at an HMO and absolutely loves it. Works 4 days/week and claims to pull in mid 300k a year...

-Part-time Hospital/Part-time in Private practice or moonlighting: (+) Best of both worlds, fun stuff + the cash-money, (-) difficult to balance
***Know another guy who works 2.5 days private practice (group practice), 1 day in the OR at the Hospital (orthognathic, cancer, etc.), and twice a month doing clefts at the childrens hospital.
Also heard of Surgeons working 3-4 days in a hospital and 1 or 2 days at dentist office pulling whizzies for them...

-100% private practice: (+) Lots of ca$h-money, (-) not as fun, running your own business is a biotch
***Heard of guys making anywhere from $250,000-over a million...
(do the math...$2,500 a case for whizzies, appointments scheduled every 30-90 min with 35-55% overhead, 3-10 cases a day, 1-6 days a week [lots of variability I know])

Any option, you'll end up pulling in more, FOR THE MOST PART, than you will as a GP...

What I was trying to state in my previous post (which I did unsuccessfully 😉) was that your logic was contradicting in that you said Option #1 or 2 above isn't worth it for the pay cut (more variety, less pay), and option #3 isn't worth the money (less variety, more money), and state that general dentistry may be a better option.
In short you say:
More variety, less pay - NOT WORTH IT
Less variety, more pay - NOT WORTH IT

The only other logical options are:
More variety, more pay
Less variety, less pay
This 1st option in reality isn't an option, so I guess you'll just have to stick to the SECOND: LESS VARIETY, LESS PAY...Good luck!!!
hahaha
P.S. I'm totally messing with you, and probably still totally butchering my interpretation of what you were trying to communicate...Hopefully anothers perspective helps!

 

[DMD 4 Me]

Haha no, I get what you're saying, and appreciate your input.

The part-time hospital and part-time private practice seems like a good fit, and that happens to be what all the OMFS' that I have interacted with do.

Makes sense I guess

 

[txlonghorn]

I am looking to get this information, as I will at earliest be an OMFS at the age of 34 (assuming a 4 year program) and want to make sure that I will be adequately be able to support my family.

34 huh? So how old are you now? It's good that you've got your life's plan laid out like that, but, it'd do you heaps good to concentrate on the studies you have at hand, then try to do your best in dental school to have any hope of getting into OMFS residency. All the best mate. By the way, my question still stands, how old are you? No, seriously, just curious.[/QUOTE]

26 now 🙂 (and I typed it in wrong - should be 35)

 

[txlonghorn]

So what are your thoughts on tech advances that made it easier for dentists to do 3rds and implants (there is some software and hardware out there that helps dentist do implants but costs a lot right now. It seems that perio also places many implants (my dentist refers all her implant cases to a perio and some removal of 3rd too) and even do 3rds. Do you all think it will drive OMFS in a similar direction as where endo is headed due to implants becoming more popular?

 

[senpai]

So what are your thoughts on tech advances that made it easier for dentists to do 3rds and implants (there is some software and hardware out there that helps dentist do implants but costs a lot right now. It seems that perio also places many implants (my dentist refers all her implant cases to a perio and some removal of 3rd too) and even do 3rds. Do you all think it will drive OMFS in a similar direction as where endo is headed due to implants becoming more popular?

Everyone is trying to get there hands in on implants because it's good money. Even a few endo guys are trying to get there hands in on it too. There have been advances in placing implants, but for the most part implants require a certain level of training and surgical skills that prevents the majority of GP's from doing them. Also, sometimes people fail to realize that an implant most of the time is alot more involved than just screwing in an implant in to the jaw; many if not most require additional procedures such as sinus lifts, bone grafting, surgical extractions, etc. that no one else is really trained on unless you're an OMFS or a periodontist that was trained at a descent program.
As far as OMFS heading in the direction that endo is right now, from the previous post it should be very obvious that there is a ton of variability in what an OMFS can do, i.e. orthognathic, trauma, cancer, craniofacial, cosmetics, dentoalveolar, reconstructive, pathology, TMJ, etc., etc., etc., etc. An OMFS shouldn't have any problem making a descent living even though competition can come from both ends, dentistry and medicine (plastics, ENT, etc.) as there are enough niches to find and call your own.
Perio on the other, is in real trouble if they lose their hold on implants as Implantology has really re-defined the specialty of perio. The specialty is already suffering and losing a hold on implants would be the final K.O. in my opinion.
As far as 3rd molars, GP's just aren't trained well enough in 3rd molar extractions to make it worth their time. I worked at an OMFS clinic as an assistant and we would get emergency cases all the time of GP's trying to pull 3rd molars and later realizing "I don't know what the hell I'm doing", and sending the patient with a half extracted tooth. These weren't young or inexperienced dentist either, sometimes you just don't know how difficult it is until you get in there.
GP's and Periodontist aren't trained in General Anesthesia as well which makes both 3rd molar extractions and advanced implant cases too difficult to do without.

One last comment, in my opinion, attending a few CE classes in implants/3rd molar extractions or watching a DVD on it does not make one qualified to place implants nor does it replace in any way the training you get in a residency program. I know of a few different places that offer some pretty good CE courses in implants, but I really don't believe that it is equivalent to a good residency program in OMFS or Perio.