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OMM and MDs

Discussion in 'PM&R' started by lj1230, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. lj1230

    lj1230 Member
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    I was wondering if there is any way that MDs are able to learn OMM. I will be going to an MD school next year, Wayne State, but I am also very interested in learning OMM. Do you know of any programs over summers or anything that MDs can be exposed to this? At one point I had heard that MSU-COM offered these classes over the summer to non-DO students, but I can't find much info on it. Thanks
     
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  3. axm397

    axm397 SDN Moderator
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    You're right - there's not much info on the web about this. I don't think this is going to be of much help but...

    Here's an article about NYCOM's course - it seems like MDs learning OMM is a pretty controversial issue... I've also heard that PCOM offers similar courses. (I heard that PAs can take courses at PCOM to become DOs?? I dont' know if that is true.)

    http://www.academyofosteopathy.org/AUGUST%20Newsletter.pdf

    Sorry I can't be of much help...
     
  4. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
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    MDs can learn OMM just fine. I would suggest taking courses through the American Academy of Osteopathy (Note, I did not say the American Osteopathic Association). Courses in all the techniques DOs learn are available year round, and they are generally very good. It will take you some extra time and money to learn OMM as an MD, but you can learn it just as well as any DO if you put time into it and the resources are certainly there for you.

    In my experience, MDs have been *most* welcome at the courses.

    best, Ligament
     
  5. lj1230

    lj1230 Member
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    Thanks so much!!!!! I will look into it!!!
     
  6. normalforce

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    go to harvard med's website and search for the OMM course. It is being offered from Aug 15 - Aug 18. MD's and DO's only, I don't know if they take students.

    Harvard med doing an OMM course. By God, they've seen the light.

    Cheers,

    NF
     
  7. MadPuppy2005

    MadPuppy2005 Member
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    Thanks for the post about MDs and OMM. Im a 3rd yr student who's been practicing OMM regularly since my 1st yr. My opinion is that sure, of course anyone can learn OMM, however, as a MD, you did not have the MS backgroud,hands on skill, and opportunity to practice in your 4 yrs of med school. OMM is a very time consuming skill to learn. Im sure you could spend time learning about the basics and go to CME courses, I just dont see how MDs can make up the lack of practice and hands on skills which we DOs have since we were 1st yr med students. Another way to look at it is like its kinda like swimming or lifting weights, you can read books and have people show you how to do it. However, you just wont make much accomplishments until you put in the time and practice. Like lifting weights, u just can't get stronger, bigger, or more defined unless u do it properly and understand your own body. OMM is similar, but much much harder to master, you can't treat different people using the same techniques; so how do you know how what technique to use, a lot of it come from practice, learning from an OMM expert, your own body size, strength, etc.... I personally just dont think that MDs can take a couple CME courses in OMM and be able to treat people and bill insurance for it. Its not good for your patient and its not ethical. By saying that , I do not want people to get the idea that I have anything against others who want to learn OMM. It would be great for others who are not DOs to learn about it and be familiar with what kind of conditions OMM is good for and make referals, etc...
    And just be realistic too, if you want be an OMM expert , go to a DO school!!!
    A few courses in OMM is not a substitute for the hundreds and thousands of hours that some of We future DOs have put in. And also, do u think patient would think prefer a DO over MD when it comes to OMM or MS problems, yea probably. By the way, I just would like to say that I apologize if I have offended anyone. But I do think that what I've said is very realistic and thats something to think about if you are a MD wanting to learn OMM. I do encourage MDs to learn more about OMM, at the same time, I STRONGLY FEEL THEY ARE NOT QUAliFIED TO LEARN OMM AND TREAT PEOPLE ADEQUATELY. If anyone disagrees with my statements, please pm me or e-mail me. Thanks for reading my reply.
     
  8. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
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    Hi Madpuppy,

    As a 2nd year PMR resident having personally worked with a number of MDs who perform OMM on a daily basis I can tell you that many of them are just as good if not better than many DOs I have worked with. As you say, the bottom line is how much time one puts into manual medicine that makes them good at it. At my institution, we have an MD PM&R doc who does OMM FULL TIME. The only other thing he does is EMGs. He is quite skilled, and did a fellowship in OMM and EMG at Michigan State under Phil Greenman, DO.

    I am saying this because I do not want the MDs on this forum to be discouraged that OMM is out of their grasp. It certainly is WITHIN their grasp, as long as they put the time and entergy into using it.

    Remember, Dr. Still was an MD!

    "as a MD, you did not have the MS backgroud"

    They do, not as focused towards OMM as a DO but it is certainly enough.

    "I just dont see how MDs can make up the lack of practice and hands on skills which we DOs have since we were 1st yr med students."

    Simply because they devote time in their practices to learn it. And when you get out into the real world, you will see that very very few DOs still use OMM.

    "However, you just wont make much accomplishments until you put in the time and practice."
    Very true

    "I personally just dont think that MDs can take a couple CME courses in OMM and be able to treat people and bill insurance for it."
    Well technically MDs CAN bill for OMM WITHOUT taking OMM CME courses. And the good ones take CME course and devote a *lot* of time to developing their skills.

    "And just be realistic too, if you want be an OMM expert , go to a DO school!!!"
    Well, this is true if one knows they want to be an OMM expert from the beginning. However, There are a number of advantages to becoming and MD versus DO as well.

    "And also, do u think patient would think prefer a DO over MD when it comes to OMM or MS problems, yea probably."
    They dont really seem to care. They just want a DO or MD that uses OMM to help them. Being a DO does seem to help guide patients toward you for OMM, however MDs with a reputation in the community for OMM are booked for WEEKS in advance just as DOs.

    "I STRONGLY FEEL THEY ARE NOT QUAliFIED TO LEARN OMM AND TREAT PEOPLE ADEQUATELY."
    I hope you are trolling. They are more than qualified to learn OMM and treat patients assuming they have taken OMM courses and practice OMM. This is like saying DOs are not qualified to learn an allopathic medical specialty, such as PM&R!

    Again, to all the MD forum members...you CAN learn OMM and use it WELL with great results if you practice and develop your hands.

    One of the reasons Osteopathy was created was to change the conventional medical paradigm to learn how to use hands on techniques such as manual medicine. The more MDs learn OMM the better in my opinion. The bottom line will be happier and healthier patients.

    Best, Ligament
     
  9. lj1230

    lj1230 Member
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    Ligament,
    Thank you for the encouragement for learning OMM. I personally am going to an MD school because I feel that Wayne State has a lot to offer in clinical experience, much more then other schools in the area. However I am very interested in OMM and how it works. I personally plan to learn and practice OMM and will dedicate as much time as needed to learn it. Thank you again for your help.
     
  10. MadPuppy2005

    MadPuppy2005 Member
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    Ligament, thanks for the reply. I believe you that there are a few MDs who practice OMM. OMM is a highly demanded specialty, I'm sure if you advertise it, you'll probably get enough patient. I'm sure there are a few MDs out there who are very good, but the best OMM physicians are usually DOs. Even though some MDs are capable of learning OMM if they put in enough time, but is that practical for most of them? I'm getting a feeling that a lot of MDs do want learn OMM because OMM is very useful, however, they are going to start using it on patients when they are not yet adequately trained yet. Currently, there is no rule/standard which dictates how many hours a non-DO should have minimally before they can go out and practice. This can be dangerous. OMM done incorrectly can make the patient worse. It doesnt make much sense if you want practice OMM much of the time but choose to go to a MD school.

    Ligament , are you a D.O? or M.D?

    I'd like to hear more opinions from other osteopathic students and D.Os.
     
  11. axm397

    axm397 SDN Moderator
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    It kind of sounds like a turf war to me. OMM is just one of many tools physicians can use to help patients. I don't think it's an absolute right, or a cure-all. When you dismiss other techniques, specialties, etc.., you really miss-out on the opportunity to enrich yourself and the possibility of adding to your cache of therapeutic modalities. It can also be misinterpreted as a sign of your insecurity, and that can definitely backfire in certain situations. To proclaim the supremacy of Osteopathic or Allopathic Medicine appears a bit arrogant and naive. I have seen both types of posts - and it really doesn't accomplish much but to offend.

    Frankly, this thread is suprising because most of the DO students I have talked to in the past have been very supportive of allopathic physicians and medical students learning OMM. I would think that allopathic docs who truly want to learn OMM are very dedicated to take on the task of learning something new. From what I understand, OMM can be very time consuming, labor intensive, and not necessarily financially rewarding. (Isn't that why many DOs don't practice it?) So, for an allopathic doctor to actually take the time and the money to learn OMM, he/she would really have to be interested, no?? Also, as more allopathic physicians recognize the effectiveness of OMM and become familiar with the philosophy behind it, the more DO physicians will receive consults and referrals. So I would argue that it's a win-win situation. :)
     

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