On doing things cheaply...

[Nasrudin]

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This post comprises months of "Strategery" meetings with my advisers and staff--you guys and the adcomms whom visit this board. It comprises a meta-analysis of the options available to the reformed idiots among us, myself included, who are repairing a lower gpa.

Recently a discussion on the lack of patience or reapplying without improvement helped to solidify my confidence in my homespun, jerry-rigged, redneck approach to this process.

If you are fabulously wealthy and are not predisposed to a more patient approach this post is not for you. If however, you are like me, working full-time and are in the middle range of screw-ups--2.4 or so and up--then this is for you.

There is an entire paramedical economy out there designed specifically to entrap you into the mind-state of desperation--that in order to prove the efficacy of your application you must invest 10's of thousands of dollars into their exhorbitant programs with fancy amenities like "advising." As if advising were some hocus-pocus you can't do on your own. Our culture has lost its sense of self-education. You can learn almost anything on this level on your own by reading books and seeking the right sources of advice. Thank you. That will be $40,000. I'll put it on your tab. Seriously though. I would like to take this opportunity to tell all those out there trying to scoop up the desperate with high cost options to kindly go F^ck yourselves. Pretty unprofessional. I know. But they need to hear it to remind them that their fluffy, vague justifications for their programs are tenuous at best at least from an ethical standpoint if not an economic one.

So back to "strategery." The main point of the redneck approach is not to polish a turd but to make fertilizer out it. Our weakness is the low u-grad gpa. It also one of the absolute measures for med-school admissions. So attack that weakness with a prolonged but cheap campaign at the u-grad level. A 2nd degree. A prolonged postbac. You can work to pay your expenses and fund your education with low-interest federal loan programs. The tuition for your state university will be quite affordable in most cases and won't drive you into other types of debt like credit-cards or high interest private loans while you navigate the process, making positive income.

If done correctly you can add 2-4 years of near 4.0 to your sorry old gpa and have at least an acceptable range for a cumulative gpa--3.3-3.5. Additionally you will have demonstrated recent work in science and u-grad gpa which make you directly comparable to the applicant pool at large.

My last point is that the MCAT is your cheapest best option to increase your chances for success. I've actually seen kids just out of college with a 3.3-3.5 range gpa talking about paying for an SMP because they have an MCAT in the 20's. This is an altogether ludicrous proposition from my perspective because for a fraction of that price they could hunker down in the library to increase their MCAT score.

Just some thoughts from the trenches of gpa reconstruction.....

Any thoughts?--Thanks.

 

[glamqueen]

It depends on what your GPA is to how much you can increase it...I'm doing a second undergrad, and the most I can raise my over 3.5 GPA is maybe a tenth of a point or a .15 if I'm really lucky (in two additional years of classes). So don't assume it will help - do some math before you decide a second undergrad is the solution to your GPA problems..

 

[Nasrudin]

It depends on what your GPA is to how much you can increase it...I'm doing a second undergrad, and the most I can raise my over 3.5 GPA is maybe a tenth of a point or a .15 if I'm really lucky (in two additional years of classes). So don't assume it will help - do some math before you decide a second undergrad is the solution to your GPA problems..

Math and economic concerns. That's what I advocate partly by necessity, partly by design.

The oft repeated "its just a drop in the bucket refrain" is a justification that I don't think holds up given that there are options.


So given the law of diminishing returns I would still spend 4 years to get a 3.3 than 1.5 years + SMP to get to 3.0 cum + grad gpa + -75 G's.

Let's get some serious rebuttals here that just don't reiterate the obvious.

 

[QofQuimica]

Math and economic concerns. That's what I advocate partly by necessity, partly by design.

The oft repeated "its just a drop in the bucket refrain" is a justification that I don't think holds up given that there are options.


So given the law of diminishing returns I would still spend 4 years to get a 3.3 than 1.5 years + SMP to get to 3.0 cum + grad gpa + -75 G's.

Let's get some serious rebuttals here that just don't reiterate the obvious.

I can't see much to rebut. I agree that professional advisors tend to be a waste of money. I agree that if you have bad grades, the way you do repair work is by taking more UG level classes. I agree that you apply when you're competitive and when you're ready, not after some pre-determined set amount of time. For whatever you think it's worth, my scot-free advice is that you're thinking the way I'd be thinking if I were in your shoes. to you. 🙂

 

[Nasrudin]

I can't see much to rebut. I agree that professional advisors tend to be a waste of money. I agree that if you have bad grades, the way you do repair work is by taking more UG level classes. I agree that you apply when you're competitive and when you're ready, not after some pre-determined set amount of time. For whatever you think it's worth, my scot-free advice is that you're thinking the way I'd be thinking if I were in your shoes. to you. 🙂

Cool. Thanks. It just took me a long time to weed through my own insecurities and the influences of others to arrive confidently at this low cost plan.

I am seeking only to talk to me--someone like me rather-- in my shoes 3 years ago. Dang come to think of it I'll have put in 5 years at the U-grad level in addition to my first 3 year floundering.

In any case, I am satisfied with the cost-effectiveness of my investment, but only after overcoming much doubt.

And I still welcome opposing arguments for the assistance of all those deciding on how they will approach this mammoth task.

 

[QofQuimica]

Cool. Thanks. It just took me a long time to weed through my own insecurities and the influences of others to arrive confidently at this low cost plan.

I am seeking only to talk to me--someone like me rather-- in my shoes 3 years ago. Dang come to think of it I'll have put it 5 years at the U-grad level in addition to my first 3 year floundering.

In any case, I am satisfied with the cost-effectiveness of my investment, but only after overcoming much doubt.

And I still welcome opposing arguments for the assistance of all those deciding on how they will approach this mammoth task.

I think the only possible quagmire you could run into is of possibly thinking that one path is optimal for everyone. Everyone has to have a strong enough academic background to apply successfully, but there are many ways to get yourself to that point. Not everyone cares as much about saving money as you and I apparently do. 🙂

 

[montessori2md]

glamqueen, why would you want to raise your 3.5+ gpa?

I'm following the ordinary ugrad plan, though my gpa is a-ok with me, because I needed the prereqs. I can't compare that to a post-bacc program, since I haven't done one, but I will say that if a post-bacc in my area would have guaranteed me admissions to a local md school, I would have seriously considered shelling out the dough, just to be saved the hassle of running the AMCAS gauntlet.

 

[Nasrudin]

I think the only possible quagmire you could run into is of possibly thinking that one path is optimal for everyone. Everyone has to have a strong enough academic background to apply successfully, but there are many ways to get yourself to that point. Not everyone cares as much about saving money as you and I apparently do. 🙂

Right. I tried to narrow my focus. If you've got the cash flow or resources not to be concerned with it then the world is your oyster and the my piquant little ramblings matter not anyway.

 

[mommy2three]

Math and economic concerns. That's what I advocate partly by necessity, partly by design.

The oft repeated "its just a drop in the bucket refrain" is a justification that I don't think holds up given that there are options.


So given the law of diminishing returns I would still spend 4 years to get a 3.3 than 1.5 years + SMP to get to 3.0 cum + grad gpa + -75 G's.

Let's get some serious rebuttals here that just don't reiterate the obvious.

yes but in my case it is just a drop in the bucket.....literally. trying to take any more undergrad classes and getting straight a's in them to see a semi-decent gpa rise would be like expecting to drop a pebble in lake michigan and see it rise 5 ft as a result.
in my case i have close to (if not over i have not calculated recently) 200 credit hours 😱 NO amount of undergrad work will raise my gpa...none zip zilch zero.

 

[Think Big]

This is all assuming that you have to actually raise your GPA to an acceptable range. However, adcoms are well aware that you can't raise Lake Michigan with a pebble. I came out of undergrad with a 2.3 cumulative GPA and an even lower BCPM. I took part-time post bac classes for two years (including summers) and paid for it with my tuition benefits from work. I then went to grad school full time because I knew that I definitly wanted to work in public health, regardless of whether I ever made it into med school or not.

In my case, what convinced the adcoms was the fact that I did a complete 180 from undergrad. I went from straight C's (and D's and F's) to straight A's. It probably helps that the bad grades are ten years old. I did pretty decent on the MCAT too.

So after all was said and done:

Two years of part time post-bac classes: $0
Graduate Degree in Public Health: $30,000
Getting multiple allo acceptances with an AMCAS-calculated undergrad cumulative GPA of 2.60 and an undergrad BCPM of 2.33: PRICELESS!!!

Oh yeah, and because I'm sure someone is going to ask, I'm not URM.

 

[Nasrudin]

You guys present good counterpoints. So that a person must look seriously at what point the gpa becomes immovable.

Interesting that the previous poster did the opposite of conventional advice in terms of the MPH not being generally considered the best route for low gpa applicants. But it appears that in conjunction with other things was quite effective. Still too expensive for me.

Why do you suppose low cost mass health solutions training is outrageously expensive and has no funding for students and small industry fed technical science fields can be more easily funded at the graduate level. That's the reason why I don't play expensive reindeer games with these M@therF@ckers.

 

[jadelxq]

Your story is really encouraging. I'd really like to hear more about. I am a public health student that is considering med school and needs some advice about combating the low gpa. PM me if you have the time.

 

[MissIntrigued]

Your story is really encouraging. I'd really like to hear more about. I am a public health student that is considering med school and needs some advice about combating the low gpa. PM me if you have the time.

In my experience, a low to average GPA from undergrad can be improved upon not in the sense of your overall GPA being raised by a good post-bacc set of grades, but by showing that you are capable of improvements. As well, the MCAT is a BIG dealbreaker (or maker). I found a little tool that assesses your chances of getting into a med school based on your GPA, science GPA, and MCATS as compared to those school's last year acceptance and matriculation stats. I havent taken the MCAT yet (will in April 2009) but I put in my GPA's, and then put in different MCAT scores to see how my MCAT would affect my feasibility with admissions. with a 30 MCAT, i had an OK chance with some schools, and a good chance with some schools, but most of the top schools were listed as "longshots". Mind you, my undergrad GPA is 3.1, and post bacc science is around 3.7. When I raised the MCAT on this tool by 2 points in each section, raising my potentional MCAT score to 35-36, it said I had a hopeful chance of acceptance to nearly every school that I am interested in.

So , suffice to say, MCAT score matters. Alot.

As to the money issue, it's all BS. You don't need to invest in fancy advisors and 2000 dollar Kaplan or Princeton Review courses. My job's tuition program paid for all my post-bacc science courses. I bought the exam crackers complete set of study guides and plan to take as many practice MCATs as I can get my hands on (you can buy a bunch from AAMCAS website). I might pick up some other review books too, all of which will still cost me less than the Kaplan type courses.

I have always been a good test taker. I studied maybe a couple days for each Organic chem exam I had and I still got a B+ while other people (regular 20 year old undergrads) stressed out and studied for weeks on end and most ended up doing worse than me. Stress and maturity play a big part in how you do in both school and the real world, and this is what alot of younger students don't realize. If I had known what I know at 18 years old, what I know now at 26 years old, being out in the real world from college for a few years, wow. Amazing what a few years can do for a persons maturity and focus.


Medical school is not as scary as people make it out to be. People ask me "arent you worried about all the work in med school?" and i tell them, hell no. It'll be the first time since I've been 14 years old that I could go to school and not have to work at the same time! My family never had alot of money. Ive always worked worked worked in jobs and honestly have never studied very much. I went to classes and I have a fabulous memory and ability to retain information, which I thank my lucky stars for. My grades got better as the years went (from a 2.3 first semester freshman year, to a 3.8 senior year) not because I studied more, or because some advisor helped me (in fact, the advisor at my undergrad told me that id never get the GPA needed for med school. She can now suck it as I WILL get into med school), but because I focused more on the important things and didnt let anyone tell me I couldnt do something.

Success is 90% belief in your abilities and 10% actual physical effort. At least, that's how it's been in my case.