Oncology? What school is best?

[Markemus]

Are certain schools better for specific specialties than others. I want to go into pediatric oncology, and was wondering if my state school would be fine. I am incredibly interested in going to Stanford, as I have always been infatuated with the research opportunites they seem to recieve. On the "slight" chance I don't get into Big Red do all medical schools offer the same opportunities, surgical, hematology, etc...

Thanks again for all of the help guys.

MarkemUs

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

Are certain schools better for specific specialties than others. I want to go into pediatric oncology, and was wondering if my state school would be fine. I am incredibly interested in going to Stanford, as I have always been infatuated with the research opportunites they seem to recieve. On the "slight" chance I don't get into Big Red do all medical schools offer the same opportunities, surgical, hematology, etc...

Thanks again for all of the help guys.

MarkemUs

Not really an advantage for specific specialties since medical schools teach you how to be a doctor, while residency is for learning your specific trade. However, I would get the most recent match list from the schools you're interested in and see how many people have managed to land spots in Oncology from said school. I would also tend to think that the more "prestigious" the school from which you get the MD on your lab coat, the better the chance you have of matching in Oncology/other very competitive programs. Good Luck!

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

You're way ahead of yourself if you haven't completed your pre-req's yet.

There's nothing wrong with having career ambition, goals, dreams etc.

 

[J1515]

Pediatric Oncology? Why? You haven't even graduated college yet. Maybe you should let yourself be exposed to the 50 other specialties first before you decide on the one you like.

 

[154465]

If you don't have any input then don't scold him for asking. It's just like SDN to make someone feel like **** for having a career goal in mind, you don't know this guys background or his experiences, so don't treat him like an idiot. The guy doesn't want advice on how far into the future he should plan, he asked a simple question.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

It's unreasonable to pick a med school based on a future PGY fellowship. That would be like asking what high school you should go to if you want to be a doctor someday. This poster hasn't even taken the MCAT yet. Small steps.

that's a pretty weak analogy...going to medical school prepares you for a career in a much smaller field than what going to high school or college can prepare you for. Therefore, his question is not so unreasonable.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

where did his posts go? I see he definitely put his foot in his mouth on this one. What a jerk.

 

[MystA RavE]

where did his posts go? I see he definitely put his foot in his mouth on this one. What a jerk.

Big brother is watching

 

[Arjunsi]

I'm not scolding. I'm saying that the best way to keep your options open and "aim for your dreams" or whatever is to smoke the MCAT first.

I agree, the MCAT is the first step. However, this doesn't mean that there is no room for other preparation and career goals. I think its perfectly fine to have a specialty as a long-term goal, as long as you approach it with an open mind. Being driven towards one passion is great, just be careful that an attachment to an idea doesn’t prevent you from pursuing a different preference somewhere down the road.

 

[Markemus]

Pediatric Oncology? Why? You haven't even graduated college yet. Maybe you should let yourself be exposed to the 50 other specialties first before you decide on the one you like.

Because I had T-Cell Lymphoma as a child and grew up around dieing kids. I have a very strong interest in it research and practice wise, and really want to help people who are having their children taken from them.

It is a major reason I am going to medical school. I would really like to help people who have financial troubles, under priv etc... and work toward developing better treatments, than adriamyicin which damages heart tissue, as in my case.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Markemus]

so med school and then your residency you decide hey this is what I want to do for my career, correct? Which could likely be for me, pediatric oncology.

 

[rickthetwinkie]

Considering how far along going into oncology is for you, I would work toward getting into medical school first. You may not be lucky enough to have a choice on where you want to go, and, arguably, whether or not the medical school you go to has a strong oncology program will in all likelihood not get you kudos.

Also, while I understand your passion, please keep an open mind. Because this is far far far into the future, and you might envision yourself to be the same person 5, 6, 7 years down the road does not mean it will be so.

 

[Markemus]

I understand, thanks for the advice. BTW nice quote, funny.

 

[rickthetwinkie]

so med school and then your residency you decide hey this is what I want to do for my career, correct? Which could likely be for me, pediatric oncology.

From what I understand, pediatric oncology is not a specific residency. During fourth year, you will have to apply to pediatric residencies which are three years. To pursue hematology/oncology, you will have to match into pediatric hematology/oncology fellowship after residency, which after a surface google search looks like it is another three years. Oncology is waaaaaaaaay down the road from where you are at.

And this is not to sound insulting by the way. Its just that an oncology fellowship is about 2 orders removed from the medical school you will be attending, and most likely the only "prestige" that will matter is perhaps the quality of your residency. Of course, I'm talking out of my a$$, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[drizzt3117]

You can also go into pediatric oncology through medicine, with oncology fellowship and pediatric fellowship correct? Are there fellowships specifically for pediatric oncology?

 

[XerxesMD]

I am sorry to hear about your illness as a child and am happy you're better now 🙂. I think it's great when people who've personally dealt with illness decide to become physicians. Going through what you did will help you tremendously in being an effective and empathetic pediatric oncologist. It's impossible to fully appreciate what patients and their families are going through unless you or a loved one have been in a similar situation.

In general, I think it's very good to have a specialty choice in mind, even if we haven't been exposed to all of the specialties yet. It might just help in getting through O-chem and the MCATs if you are able to picture yourself as a (fill in the blank)-ologist doing whatever it is that those physicians do on a day to day basis. It also isn't bad to know you are strongly predisposed to a particular specialty as you can plan for it earlier in your medschool years.

Regarding the OP: I don't think it matters where you goto medical school in this instance. It is obviously best to goto one of the well-known medical schools since you will likely be more competitive once you're applying to residency programs, so anyone would ideally like to goto a 'top' school for this reason. I am not sure what the process is to become a pediatric oncologist, though I imagine it would entail a 3 year peds residency followed by a 2 or 3 year oncology fellowship. Peds isn't terribly competitive (compared to derm or radiology), but I'm reasonably certain that getting into an oncology fellowship will be rather difficult, so the best thing you could probably do to maximize your chances is to get into a 'top' medschool that will allow you to get a spot in a 'top' residency, and hope for the best from there.

That said, I think you train in whatever specialty you want from whatever medical school you choose, regardless of its reputation. In fact, I was looking at some Caribbean school match lists a few days ago and noticed one student who matched into dermatology and a few who matched into radiology programs. I highly doubt they are the 'top' residency programs, but hey...that's pretty impressive in my book. Nevertheless, going to any of the 'top' schools/programs would certainly help you reach your goal.

 

[blurry]

Are certain schools better for specific specialties than others. I want to go into pediatric oncology, and was wondering if my state school would be fine. I am incredibly interested in going to Stanford, as I have always been infatuated with the research opportunites they seem to recieve. On the "slight" chance I don't get into Big Red do all medical schools offer the same opportunities, surgical, hematology, etc...

Thanks again for all of the help guys.

MarkemUs

Cornell also has an abundance of research opportunities and if you're interested especially in cancer, they have a unique affiliation with the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, one of the leaders in cancer research.

 

[enigma85]

I agree with everyone else's sentiments about focusing on getting into med school first. Applying for hem/onc fellowship is at least 7 years down the road for you.

You would need to look at either programs strong in oncology, pediatrics, or both. I can't really give you a list of schools in your range without knowing your MCAT/GPA/extracurriculars. The medical school you go to will not prevent you from getting a peds hem/onc fellowship. Your state school would be fine.

 

[IHeartNerds]

There's a difference between saying you want to go into peds onc and saying you want to go into the absolute best (however you define that) peds onc program in the nation. If you want to go into private practice somewhere in middle america, any medical school and any residency/fellowship will do fine. If you want to be an attending at Mayo, you might want to crank it up a bit and try for a heavily academic medical school and competitive med or peds residency. It's really up to you.

Ignore haters that say "OMG HOW COULD YOU CHOOSE A SPECIALTY YET???". I hate interviewees that say they are totally undecided. Medicine is one of the most amazingly broad fields I could imagine. I mean, compare and contrast the daily work of someone in PM&R vs someone in neurosurgery. Then compare academia vs private practice. There are gigantic differences and to say you have NO idea, in my opinion, means you haven't had nearly enough exposure to medicine. So kudos for actually having clear-cut goals, I hope they work out.

 

[etf]

There's a difference between saying you want to go into peds onc and saying you want to go into the absolute best (however you define that) peds onc program in the nation. If you want to go into private practice somewhere in middle america, any medical school and any residency/fellowship will do fine. If you want to be an attending at Mayo, you might want to crank it up a bit and try for a heavily academic medical school and competitive med or peds residency. It's really up to you.

Ignore haters that say "OMG HOW COULD YOU CHOOSE A SPECIALTY YET???". I hate interviewees that say they are totally undecided. Medicine is one of the most amazingly broad fields I could imagine. I mean, compare and contrast the daily work of someone in PM&R vs someone in neurosurgery. Then compare academia vs private practice. There are gigantic differences and to say you have NO idea, in my opinion, means you haven't had nearly enough exposure to medicine. So kudos for actually having clear-cut goals, I hope they work out.

having lofty goals is fine, but you should keep them to yourselves. in fact, i think saying that i wanted to be a neurosurgeon to one of my student interviewers and her resultant look of incredulity is (one of) the reason i'm reapplying

p.s. check out ucsf. the cancer center is top notch.

 

[smq123]

Are certain schools better for specific specialties than others. I want to go into pediatric oncology, and was wondering if my state school would be fine. I am incredibly interested in going to Stanford, as I have always been infatuated with the research opportunites they seem to recieve. On the "slight" chance I don't get into Big Red do all medical schools offer the same opportunities, surgical, hematology, etc...

GO TO YOUR STATE SCHOOL!!! You'll thank me later when you have substantially less debt.

All schools in the US will teach you how to be a good doctor. The rest is up to you.

By the way, since no one has laid this out for you, this is the (usual) path that you take to become a pediatric oncologist:

• Med school (ANYWHERE in the US.)
• Pediatrics residency (3 years) - preferably at a university hospital, not a community hospital.
• Pediatric Oncology fellowship (3 years).

If you want to be an attending at Mayo, you might want to crank it up a bit and try for a heavily academic medical school and competitive med or peds residency. It's really up to you.

The med school that you go to is pretty unimportant. What really matters is your Step 1 scores and, ultimately, the reputation of the residency that you go to.

Ignore haters that say "OMG HOW COULD YOU CHOOSE A SPECIALTY YET???". I hate interviewees that say they are totally undecided. Medicine is one of the most amazingly broad fields I could imagine. I mean, compare and contrast the daily work of someone in PM&R vs someone in neurosurgery. Then compare academia vs private practice. There are gigantic differences and to say you have NO idea, in my opinion, means you haven't had nearly enough exposure to medicine. So kudos for actually having clear-cut goals, I hope they work out.

See - a lot of MS1s and pre-meds say this, and it drives me crazy. It's fine to have a goal. But the downside to having a goal is that you don't have enough input to make an informed decision.

For YEARS, I swore I wanted to do Family Med. Then, 2nd year of med school, I decided to do med-peds and then infectious disease, because I wanted to take care of HIV patients. Now, in my 3rd year, I have totally fallen in love with OB/gyn. And now I have to totally re-arrange my future plans, goals, and what I had envisioned for my future. Which kind of sucks.

Having a goal in mind is fine. But not realizing that there are so many other specialties around, and not being open to them, is terrible.

However, I would get the most recent match list from the schools you're interested in and see how many people have managed to land spots in Oncology from said school. I would also tend to think that the more "prestigious" the school from which you get the MD on your lab coat, the better the chance you have of matching in Oncology/other very competitive programs.

a) The "prestige" of your med school DOES NOT MATTER. The "prestige" of your Step 1 score matters infinitely more.

b) This is why asking pre-meds for advice is risky. Nobody matches in oncology straight out of med school. Oncology fellowships will only take people who have completed a residency (usually in internal medicine). So looking at a school's match list is a waste of time.

From what I understand, pediatric oncology is not a specific residency.

You're right - it is not. It's a fellowship.

 

[smq123]

Regarding the OP: I don't think it matters where you goto medical school in this instance. It is obviously best to goto one of the well-known medical schools since you will likely be more competitive once you're applying to residency programs, so anyone would ideally like to goto a 'top' school for this reason.

There's a misconception that going to a top school will maximize your residency chances. This is usually not true. If the OP studies hard and rocks Step 1 (> 230), he can get a pediatric residency anywhere he wants - CHOP, Boston Children's, Pittsburgh, etc. [Note: You should rock Step 1, but do NOT start studying for it as a pre-med!!! 😉 Just to head off any overly ambitious people....]

What is actually very important, and must be taken into consideration, is the fact that the well-known med schools tend to be extremely expensive. Going into so much debt, for a dubious benefit, is not a wise choice. If the OP likes his state school, feels comfortable there, and it is cheap, he should strongly consider going there.

If the OP has a top peds program in mind, he can do an away rotation there as a 4th year med student. Even if he didn't go there for school, he'll get "face time" with the program directors and some of the big-shot names who work there. And that's very useful - more useful than just being a student there, sometimes.

 

[Gut Shot]

Are certain schools better for specific specialties than others. I want to go into pediatric oncology, and was wondering if my state school would be fine.

Yes, your state school will be fine. Pediatrics is not a very competitive field, and if you perform reasonably well in medical school you should have no problem matching into a solid residency program. If you target programs that have existing peds onc fellowships you will be well positioned.

There are quite a few peds onc fellowships in existence, and I doubt they are highly competitive, overall. You can search for them using FRIEDA (under Subspecialty/fellowship: Pediatric Hematology/Oncology).

Pediatric Hematology/Oncology (PD):

University of Alabama Medical Center Program
Childrens Hospital Los Angeles Program
UCLA Medical Center Program
Children's Hospital-Oakland Program
Children's Hospital of Orange County Program
Stanford University Program
University of California (Davis) Health System Program
University of California (San Diego) Program
University of California (San Francisco) Program
University of Colorado Program
Yale-New Haven Medical Center Program
Children's National Medical Center/George Washington University Program
National Capital Consortium Program
University of Florida Program
Emory University Program
McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University Program
University of Chicago Program
Indiana University School of Medicine Program
University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics Program
Louisiana State University Program
Johns Hopkins University Program
Children's Hospital/Boston Medical Center Program
University of Michigan Program
Children's Hospital of Michigan Program
Grand Rapids Medical Education and Research Center/Michigan State University Program
University of Minnesota Program
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education (Rochester) Program
University of Mississippi Medical Center Program
University of Missouri at Kansas City Program
Washington University/B-JH/SLCH Consortium Program
UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School Program
University of New Mexico Program
Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program
University at Buffalo Program
NSLIJHS-Schneider Children's Hospital Program
New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus) Program
New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) Program
New York University School of Medicine Program
University of Rochester Program
University of North Carolina Hospitals Program
Duke University Hospital Program
Children's Hospital Medical Center of Akron/NEOUCOM Program
Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center/University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Program
Case Western Reserve University/University Hospitals of Cleveland Program
Cleveland Clinic Foundation Program
Children's Hospital/Ohio State University Program
Oregon Health & Science University Program
Penn State University/Milton S Hershey Medical Center Program
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia Program
St Christopher's Hospital for Children Program
University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Medical Education Program
University of Puerto Rico Program
Brown University Program
Medical University of South Carolina Program
University of Tennessee Program
Vanderbilt University Program
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School Program
Baylor College of Medicine Program
University of Texas at Houston Program
University of Utah Program
Virginia Commonwealth University Health System Program
University of Washington Program
University of Wisconsin Program
Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals Program

 

[Depakote]

If you want to go into pediatric oncology, the path is...

Pediatrics residency
Pediatric Oncology fellowship

I would say the odds of you changing your mind during the next few years are pretty high. Now don't sweat it. You can get a great residency coming from pretty much any school... a lot of it has to do with your USMLE step one scores and your evaluations. You can always do an away rotation at a site you're looking at for your residency if you decide "I want to go into X field where Y sub-specialty is really top-notch".

If you know absolutely 100% that you want peds onc, look at schools that are known for great peds programs. You'll want to do a great peds peds rotation and then get a great peds residency. Then you can worry about an oncology fellowship.

The same goes for any of the medicine or surgical sub-specialties. Worry about what you need to do for the residency before the sub-specialty.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Whether you end up doing pediatric oncology or something else is completely meaningless at this point. Your path is essentially going to be the same.

You're in college now. You need to focus on getting killer grades and preparing to get an awesome MCAT score. Aside from that, you need to focus on some Extracurricular activities. Since I'm assuming you're going to use your childhood illness in your personal statement for applying to med school (I think this is a good idea) I'd suggest some clinical exposure with ill chidlren in a volunteering capacity and some lab research (it's hard to find a lab who's research ISN'T focused on some kind of cancer these days).

Applying to medical schools, really, any school will do. Cost is something students always appreciate later, but pick a school where you think you will be happy. This is an intangible network of philosopy, location, and personal preference so no help here. But ANY SCHOOL WILL ALLOW YOU TO MATCH INTO ANY RESIDENCY.

When you get into medical school, work as hard as you possibly can. You have some leeway here because pediatric residency is pretty noncompetitive. However, if you change your mind and decide you want to be a dermatologist, it's nice to have that high class rank and huge step 1 score in the bank. This will get you to the apply for residency part, and that's where you career choice DOES become important so we'll stop for now.

 

[XerxesMD]

There's a misconception that going to a top school will maximize your residency chances. This is usually not true. If the OP studies hard and rocks Step 1 (> 230), he can get a pediatric residency anywhere he wants - CHOP, Boston Children's, Pittsburgh, etc. [Note: You should rock Step 1, but do NOT start studying for it as a pre-med!!! 😉 Just to head off any overly ambitious people....]

I agree that you may be able to get into a top residency with very high board scores from another school, but the fact is that certain competitive residency programs heavily favor graduates from the top schools.

Take a look at this to see my point: http://www.doheny.org/education/opthamology/2003residents.html

This is a list of residents from USC's Doheny Eye Insititue, one of the most highly regarded places to do ophthalmology training in the country. Although there are two or three people in there who aren't from the top tier, the vast majority are. It's probably fair to assume that the one's who aren't from the top schools probably did really well on their boards (actually, the same probably applies to everyone on the list since ophtho is one of the most competitive specialists).

My point simply is that although you can do anything you want from any medical school you want, going to a top tier school will significantly help you in landing a more competitive residency program. I think this is undeniable.

 

[45408]

The med school won't really matter. What you do in med school is going to matter more and what you do in your peds residency (which almost any US medical grad can obtain) is going to matter even more.

 

[enigma85]

I agree that you may be able to get into a top residency with very high board scores from another school, but the fact is that certain competitive residency programs heavily favor graduates from the top schools.

Take a look at this to see my point: http://www.doheny.org/education/opthamology/2003residents.html

This is a list of residents from USC's Doheny Eye Insititue, one of the most highly regarded places to do ophthalmology training in the country. Although there are two or three people in there who aren't from the top tier, the vast majority are. It's probably fair to assume that the one's who aren't from the top schools probably did really well on their boards (actually, the same probably applies to everyone on the list since ophtho is one of the most competitive specialists).

My point simply is that although you can do anything you want from any medical school you want, going to a top tier school will significantly help you in landing a more competitive residency program. I think this is undeniable.

Perhaps, but part of the reason grads from schools like Harvard or JHU represent a large # of positions in the competitive residencies is that kids who go there are generally smarter, more accomplished, and/or more interested in academic medicine and research than kids at UMass or University of Maryland.
Who would you predict is more likely to match at Doheny: the average Hopkins student who came in with a 3.85 undergrad GPA, 35 MCAT, and strong interest in research, or the University of Maryland student who comes in with a 3.67 undergrad GPA, 31 MCAT, and no interest in academic medicine? But a kid with a 3.85 undergrad GPA and 35 MCAT and strong interest in research who chooses to go to Maryland would probably stand a similar chance at a competitive residency and save quite a bit of $. One medical school dean told me that the reason their students do so well on the boards is because they take kids with high MCAT scores so they are very good test-takers to begin with.

 

[smq123]

I agree that you may be able to get into a top residency with very high board scores from another school, but the fact is that certain competitive residency programs heavily favor graduates from the top schools.

Take a look at this to see my point: http://www.doheny.org/education/opthamology/2003residents.html

This is a list of residents from USC's Doheny Eye Insititue, one of the most highly regarded places to do ophthalmology training in the country. Although there are two or three people in there who aren't from the top tier, the vast majority are. It's probably fair to assume that the one's who aren't from the top schools probably did really well on their boards (actually, the same probably applies to everyone on the list since ophtho is one of the most competitive specialists).

My point simply is that although you can do anything you want from any medical school you want, going to a top tier school will significantly help you in landing a more competitive residency program. I think this is undeniable.

Seeing as most med school deans, and many program directors tell us the exact OPPOSITE, I hardly would label it as "undeniable." 🙄

The residents at Wills Eye - one of the best ophtho hospitals in the world - come from many different schools in the country. Some were from Yale, others went to med school in Oklahoma. Your example is nice, but doesn't prove much.

My school is not in the top tier, but we have had people match at Harvard, Yale, Brown, NYU, Cornell - in things like ortho, ophtho, derm.

Step 1 really is the great equalizer. Is it a coincidence that people at very prestigious med schools get high Step 1 scores? Maybe not - they're obviously smart, studious, and good test-takers. But you'll find smart and studious people at schools all over the country, so it makes no difference where you go to school.

This debate pops up on SDN every year - No, you do NOT have to go to a top school in order to match well. You DO have to study hard for Step 1, no matter where you go. No, the school's average Step 1 score doesn't mean squat to you as an individual student.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Ignore haters that say "OMG HOW COULD YOU CHOOSE A SPECIALTY YET???". I hate interviewees that say they are totally undecided. To say you have NO idea, in my opinion, means you haven't had nearly enough exposure to medicine.

Personally, I respect people who have narrowed down the field but still are unsure. That shows that they have exposure to different fields and have thought about the process. However, most people, esp premeds, who come out and say, "I want to be a X" have such little exposure to anything else they really cant make that decision. To me it seems like a sign of immaturity and naiveté.

Granted this doesnt apply to the OP but it seems like so many kids on SDN say that they have to be a cardiologist or a neurosurgeon without actually doing some research or finding out about the lifestyle. I laugh and shake my head.

I agree that you may be able to get into a top residency with very high board scores from another school, but the fact is that certain competitive residency programs heavily favor graduates from the top schools.

Correlation is not causation. These people didnt get the good residencies because they went to harvard. They got into harvard and subsequently got nice residencies b/c they are good students.

If residencies really cared about where people went to school, my school wouldnt consistently match people into the top residencies. This past year 3 integrated plastics, 2 uro, 3 ENT, 3 ophtho, multiple in each of derm, ortho rads, etc.

To the OP
Since you know you want to go into oncology, perhaps you should focus on NCI designated cancer centers. These centers should have a good amt of cancer research going on which will grease the wheels for residency.

It is not going to matter where you go to school. Med/Peds is pretty easy to match into.

 

[VinDiesel]

It seems like it is the same deal when everybody applied to college. I remember when I was in high school thinking that where you went to college meant everything in terms of job opportunities, grad school acceptance, etc. I ended up going to a competitive college and now applying to medical school it is quite obvious that it does not matter at all what college you went to as long as you worked hard and did well. Now I am stressed out about getting into a great medical school because it seems like it means everything in terms of residency match. I am hoping that I will have the same experience and realize that it does not matter where you went to medical school as much as how hard you worked during. Is this a logical conclusion?

 

[Gut Shot]

Now I am stressed out about getting into a great medical school because it seems like it means everything in terms of residency match.

It's actually very little in terms of residency match. The cream will rise no matter the vessel.

 

[VinDiesel]

It's actually very little in terms of residency match. The cream will rise no matter the vessel.

Well, that's very encouraging to hear. Thank you.

 

[IHeartNerds]

Personally, I respect people who have narrowed down the field but still are unsure. That shows that they have exposure to different fields and have thought about the process. However, most people, esp premeds, who come out and say, "I want to be a X" have such little exposure to anything else they really cant make that decision. To me it seems like a sign of immaturity and naiveté.

I agree, I didn't say that everyone should be TOTALLY set on something. But to just say "I want to be a DOCTOR" is as ignorant as saying "I want to be an ER doctor because it looks cool on TV."

And to the people claiming that coming from a top school doesn't help you in residency ... it does help self-matching quite a bit when your LORs are coming from the same people directing the residency program...

 

[XerxesMD]

Perhaps, but part of the reason grads from schools like Harvard or JHU represent a large # of positions in the competitive residencies is that kids who go there are generally smarter, more accomplished, and/or more interested in academic medicine and research than kids at UMass or University of Maryland.
Who would you predict is more likely to match at Doheny: the average Hopkins student who came in with a 3.85 undergrad GPA, 35 MCAT, and strong interest in research, or the University of Maryland student who comes in with a 3.67 undergrad GPA, 31 MCAT, and no interest in academic medicine? But a kid with a 3.85 undergrad GPA and 35 MCAT and strong interest in research who chooses to go to Maryland would probably stand a similar chance at a competitive residency and save quite a bit of $. One medical school dean told me that the reason their students do so well on the boards is because they take kids with high MCAT scores so they are very good test-takers to begin with.

You make a valid observation and I agree completely. The different natures and dispositions of the student populations definitely plays a role.

Seeing as most med school deans, and many program directors tell us the exact OPPOSITE, I hardly would label it as "undeniable." 🙄

The residents at Wills Eye - one of the best ophtho hospitals in the world - come from many different schools in the country. Some were from Yale, others went to med school in Oklahoma. Your example is nice, but doesn't prove much.

My school is not in the top tier, but we have had people match at Harvard, Yale, Brown, NYU, Cornell - in things like ortho, ophtho, derm.

Step 1 really is the great equalizer. Is it a coincidence that people at very prestigious med schools get high Step 1 scores? Maybe not - they're obviously smart, studious, and good test-takers. But you'll find smart and studious people at schools all over the country, so it makes no difference where you go to school.

This debate pops up on SDN every year - No, you do NOT have to go to a top school in order to match well. You DO have to study hard for Step 1, no matter where you go. No, the school's average Step 1 score doesn't mean squat to you as an individual student.

I appreciate your point and agree that you will find highly competitive students at any school. It is not my intention to denigrate any school who is not in the so-called top tier. In fact, if you look at my first post on this thread you'll notice that I put 'top' in quotation marks throughout because an argument can be made that this designation doesn't mean very much in terms of the quality of education you'll actually receive, etc. I just stopped with the quotation marks because it was getting a bit tiresome 😉.

Again, I think you can go into whatever specialty you like irrespective of what medical school you attended. But I do think it is undeniable that going to a top-tier school will help significantly in landing a spot at a competitive residency program. Not guarantee you anything, but help.

Picture this hypothetical scenario: Two medstudents competing for the same residency are identical in every way (Step 1, Class Rank, Research, Personality Traits...everything). Now one student is from a top-tier school and the other is from a less well known school. In this hypothetical situation, I think chances are that the student from the more well known school will be the one to get the spot. Of course, no two people are identical. But I reiterate my original advice to the OP, which is that going to a top tier school would help him reach his goal. It isn't a prerequisite, but if he can do it then it might just help him land a more competitive peds residency, which in turn would help him land a more competitive oncology fellowship which would help him along the way.

 

[Markemus]

There's a misconception that going to a top school will maximize your residency chances. This is usually not true. If the OP studies hard and rocks Step 1 (> 230), he can get a pediatric residency anywhere he wants - CHOP, Boston Children's, Pittsburgh, etc. [Note: You should rock Step 1, but do NOT start studying for it as a pre-med!!! 😉 Just to head off any overly ambitious people....]

What is actually very important, and must be taken into consideration, is the fact that the well-known med schools tend to be extremely expensive. Going into so much debt, for a dubious benefit, is not a wise choice. If the OP likes his state school, feels comfortable there, and it is cheap, he should strongly consider going there.

If the OP has a top peds program in mind, he can do an away rotation there as a 4th year med student. Even if he didn't go there for school, he'll get "face time" with the program directors and some of the big-shot names who work there. And that's very useful - more useful than just being a student there, sometimes.

Thank you, I really mean that I do. Best advice/insight I have gotten on this forum. Thank you.

 

[Markemus]

😴

Whether you end up doing pediatric oncology or something else is completely meaningless at this point. Your path is essentially going to be the same.

You're in college now. You need to focus on getting killer grades and preparing to get an awesome MCAT score. Aside from that, you need to focus on some Extracurricular activities. Since I'm assuming you're going to use your childhood illness in your personal statement for applying to med school (I think this is a good idea) I'd suggest some clinical exposure with ill chidlren in a volunteering capacity and some lab research (it's hard to find a lab who's research ISN'T focused on some kind of cancer these days).

Applying to medical schools, really, any school will do. Cost is something students always appreciate later, but pick a school where you think you will be happy. This is an intangible network of philosopy, location, and personal preference so no help here. But ANY SCHOOL WILL ALLOW YOU TO MATCH INTO ANY RESIDENCY.

When you get into medical school, work as hard as you possibly can. You have some leeway here because pediatric residency is pretty noncompetitive. However, if you change your mind and decide you want to be a dermatologist, it's nice to have that high class rank and huge step 1 score in the bank. This will get you to the apply for residency part, and that's where you career choice DOES become important so we'll stop for now.

More good advice from good people. Thank you for taking the time to help out.

 

[smq123]

And to the people claiming that coming from a top school doesn't help you in residency ... it does help self-matching quite a bit when your LORs are coming from the same people directing the residency program...

This is why people do away rotations - to audition, and to make connections with people with great reputations.

Again, going to a "top" school has dubious benefits when it comes to matching. As Gut Shot said, cream rises to the top.

Picture this hypothetical scenario: Two medstudents competing for the same residency are identical in every way (Step 1, Class Rank, Research, Personality Traits...everything). Now one student is from a top-tier school and the other is from a less well known school. In this hypothetical situation, I think chances are that the student from the more well known school will be the one to get the spot.

This scenario is not very helpful, because the match just doesn't work that way. It's not like med school admissions, where you worry about getting "slots." In the case of the match, the residency director would probably rank those two students highly in his list. Given that both students rank that program highly, they'll probably both match there.

It's really not a big deal. I wouldn't even say that it would "help" at all. It just lands you in more debt. If you really like Harvard, and manage to get in, and can swing the heavy tuition - go there! But if you like your state school better, then you shouldn't worry that its "reputation" will hold you back.

I don't understand when pre-meds keep insisting that the school's reputation will help you in the match.

a) It's been proven not to be true by hundreds of fourth year students who manage to match very well.

b) More importantly - doesn't it reduce stress for you guys? You don't have to obsess that not getting into Harvard or UCLA isn't going to prevent you from getting the residency of your dreams.

 

[XerxesMD]

b) More importantly - doesn't it reduce stress for you guys? You don't have to obsess that not getting into Harvard or UCLA isn't going to prevent you from getting the residency of your dreams.

I don't think you understood me correctly. Not getting into Harvard or UCLA won't prevent anyone from doing anything. And nobody should stress about this. It isn't that huge of a deal, and not going to Harvard or UCLA won't necessarily keep you out of a competitive residency program. However, I think that going to Harvard or UCLA will certainly help in getting into a competitive residency. To say otherwise is to ignore something I believe is well known by academic physicians everywhere, and especially well known by residency directors at top ranked specialty programs. In fact, I think much of the appeal of going to these schools lies in the fact that their reputations can help your career prospects through residency and beyond, especially in academic medicine.

I don't think I'm going to change your mind about this, so I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this point. 🙂

 

[Gut Shot]

It isn't that huge of a deal, and not going to Harvard or UCLA won't necessarily keep you out of a competitive residency program. However, I think that going to Harvard or UCLA will certainly help in getting into a competitive residency.

Having been through the process, the benefit of med school reputation is both slight and unevenly distributed. Program directors select people, not diplomas. I'm not saying it's without value, but if nobody can quantify it, why spend tens of thousands of dollars on it?

The prevailing assumption about top tier schools is that, by virtue of being top tier, their clinical departments are likewise top notch. This presumably translates into superior education and LOR's from big names. Rubbish and rubbish. Top academic departments live on research rather than teaching or even clinical acumen, and the big names would often just as soon spit on you as they would show you anything useful.