One more thread on "Dr."

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PhuDdyDaddy

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Hello. Please forgive one more thread on who should have the "right" to be called "Dr."
My son - a veterinarian - recently had an experience in his own clinic where a new client (a 40-something man) introduced himself with the words "Mr. Harrison, I hope you won't mind if I call you "Mr." instead of "Dr." I spent 11 years post-high school becoming an internist and I frankly find it offensive when vets call themselves 'Doctor.'"
My son mentioned that he had actually spent 13 years post-high school on his undergrad, DVM, internship, and surgical residency, but it did not impress the new client.
After my son told me this he suggested that I read some of the "who's a real doctor?" threads on this site. A lot of the comments made me a bit sad.
Personally, I don't find the issue that complicated.
In my son's practice, he's the doctor, yet he would still refer to his allopath client as Dr. Smith rather than Mr. Smith. That's courtesy and custom, not acknowledgement that Dr. Smith is equally qualified in veterinary matters or a broadly-superior human specimen.
If my son would visit Dr. Smith as a patient, I'd expect my son to be called Dr. Harrison out of courtesy and custom, not acknowledgement of any clinical equivalency.
I happen to be a Ph.D. engineer and the president of my company. I'm typically called Dr. Harrison by both staff and clients. It's a useful recognition of my preparation in my field for all the same reasons physicians are called "Dr." in clinical settings.
But when somebody asks me what I do, I never say "I'm a doctor." That would be intentionally misleading, and something I've never actually encountered with any of my colleagues. Similarly, my son would say "I'm a veterinarian." But in those rare NON-CLINICAL circumstances in which a physician would say "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones" rather than "Hi, I'm Steve Jones," I can't imagine why any physician would object to either my son or me introducing ourselves as Dr. Harrison.
Sorry. Catharsis over...
 
This internist must be in a bubble with a fragile ego. Veterinarians are absolutely the experts of veterinary medicine and have earned a "real" doctorate, I will always call them as such. That guy should be more worried about losing patients to actual fake doctors which sprout up by the minute (chiropractors, naturopaths, etc). I'd like to see the internist try to deliver a colt on his own. Sorry your son had to deal with an unprofessional client.
 
That sentiment is extremely uncommon among physicians in my experience. That intern sounds like he has an ego problem, and I'd be willing to bet he has a pretty miserable life if he feels the need to talk down to professionals in other fields.

When I bring my dog into the vet, you bet I'm calling him Dr. Larson. He worked hard for that doctoral degree. Even if he didn't work hard (he did), it is still a doctoral degree and I am in HIS place of practice. Similarly, when I am addressing a PhD while doing research in the lab, I call them "Dr. Smith" (unless we're on a first name basis, but you get the point). This is common sense.

I'm sorry your son had that experience. There are (insert offensive nouns) in all professions... internists not excluded.
 
"Doctor is an academic title that originates from the Latin word of the same spelling and meaning.[1] The word is originally an agentive noun of the Latin verb docēre [dɔˈkeːrɛ] 'to teach'." According to Wikipedia."

Your son has every right to be a called a doctor for the same reason why a person with a Ph.D has every right to be called a doctor. Most of society attributes the title "doctor" to doctors of medicine (MD), and hence the confusion. Although this intern sounds like a D bag. The issue arises about who should be called "a doctor" in the (human) healthcare setting. For example, APRN's call themselves "doctors" and MDs find it upsetting because they did not undergo the same rigor and quality/quantity of education as MD's to attain the same "title". Calling nurses "doctors" can be misleading to patients and subsequently effect their health. Hence why some of us are very upset about it.
 
The internist does not represent all Medical Doctors. Without a doubt you and your son have earned the right to be called Dr. in your own respective fields and it is disrespectful to not call you by your appropriate title.
 
Aside from the whole respect issue with regard to this stuff, that is a really bizarre way for someone to conduct themselves in public. Most people who might privately think that way at least have enough of a sense of social decorum not to act that way around other people. That internist is either totally socially disinhibited or a willful jerk.
 
imtheman25 said:
Calling nurses "doctors" can be misleading to patients and subsequently effect their health. Hence why some of us are very upset about it.
Click to expand...

This is kind of a different issue, but that's not really the reason physicians get annoyed about the nurses being called doctors. Not saying it's unreasonable for them to be offended by it but let's call a spade a spade. That issue is not fundamentally about patient safety.
 
sloop said:
This is kind of a different issue, but that's not really the reason physicians get annoyed about the nurses being called doctors. Not saying it's unreasonable for them to be offended by it but let's call a spade a spade. That issue is not fundamentally about patient safety.
Click to expand...
And encroachment ..... but lets not go off topic before some people get "triggered". And safety is a very large factor. Do not forget nurses are starting to operate in Europe.
 
PhuDdyDaddy said:
Hello. Please forgive one more thread on who should have the "right" to be called "Dr."
My son - a veterinarian - recently had an experience in his own clinic where a new client (a 40-something man) introduced himself with the words "Mr. Harrison, I hope you won't mind if I call you "Mr." instead of "Dr." I spent 11 years post-high school becoming an internist and I frankly find it offensive when vets call themselves 'Doctor.'"
My son mentioned that he had actually spent 13 years post-high school on his undergrad, DVM, internship, and surgical residency, but it did not impress the new client.
After my son told me this he suggested that I read some of the "who's a real doctor?" threads on this site. A lot of the comments made me a bit sad.
Personally, I don't find the issue that complicated.
In my son's practice, he's the doctor, yet he would still refer to his allopath client as Dr. Smith rather than Mr. Smith. That's courtesy and custom, not acknowledgement that Dr. Smith is equally qualified in veterinary matters or a broadly-superior human specimen.
If my son would visit Dr. Smith as a patient, I'd expect my son to be called Dr. Harrison out of courtesy and custom, not acknowledgement of any clinical equivalency.
I happen to be a Ph.D. engineer and the president of my company. I'm typically called Dr. Harrison by both staff and clients. It's a useful recognition of my preparation in my field for all the same reasons physicians are called "Dr." in clinical settings.
But when somebody asks me what I do, I never say "I'm a doctor." That would be intentionally misleading, and something I've never actually encountered with any of my colleagues. Similarly, my son would say "I'm a veterinarian." But in those rare NON-CLINICAL circumstances in which a physician would say "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones" rather than "Hi, I'm Steve Jones," I can't imagine why any physician would object to either my son or me introducing ourselves as Dr. Harrison.
Sorry. Catharsis over...
Click to expand...

I agree. On a related rant, I got told by some VA receptionist that my only option for a provider was a nurse practitioner and that "it was the same thing. She's a doctor of nursing. " I quickly interrupted her and told her that it was not and that I wanted to see an MD or DO. In typical VA fashion, the earliest I could get appointment with this stipulation was mid-December. This was a VA hospital near my work, so I switched to the clinic near my home that gave me an appointment with an MD next week.
 
I think your son should pretend to be confused between the terms "internist" and "intern" and just act like he thinks the client is a brand new resident for the remainder of his dealings with the d bag. That will open up endless possibilities for needling the dude's fragile ego without ever being overtly unpleasant or unfriendly.
 
Does anyone have any issue (clinical reasons or personal reasons) with Pharmacists being referred to as "Dr. X"? I think pretty much every schools gives our pharmDs now but from talking with professors and physicians a surprising amount to me seemed to take issue with it. Mostly the professors took issue because at my schools, and many others, you can get your pharmD is 6 years out of HS while they talk about how long it took for their PhD. Physicians more seem to have an issue with the confusion it could cause rather than the "I worked harder" attitude.

Curious to see what med students/residents think.

Also agree that OPs son's client is a D-bag.
 
I don’t care when people call me dr or mr except in a clinical setting where I would go by Dr so and so.

And to me, if you earned your doctorate (any kind of doctorate) you are to be called dr so and so except if you are in a clinical setting where only dentist, vet and MD/DO should be called doctor so and so.
 
What this internist did, would be the equivalent of an MD taking an MBA course, telling their PhD professor Smith, "Sorry, I don't feel you've earned the 'doctor.' I'll call you Mr. Smith but you should refer to me as Dr. Douchebag."
 
Only miserable people do stuff like this. I did undergrad at a University with a top tier vet program, and many of my basic science classes were taught by DVMs. DVMs are basically leading the way in biomedical research and cloning techniques. If they aren’t “Dr’s” then physicians aren’t either as far as I’m concerned.
 
Doctor
noun
  1. 1.
    a qualified practitioner of medicine; a physician.
Veterinarian

a person qualified to treat diseased or injured animals.

Logic: If a veterinarian can't be called a doctor, then who is?
 
I believe veterinarians have historically always been in the "call them doctor" category, DVM, MD/DO, PhD, even DDS. PsyD and OD are newer but I would still refer them as such out of courtesy, especially if in their setting. I don't think pharmacists have ever been called dr. because of the professions history, same with physical therapists.

Moral of the study, you shouldn't care if the public knows you're a doctor, but they need to know what a physician is. The use of physician has already been subject to term creep, with "chiropractic" physicians, "natruopathic medical" physicians, and "optometric" physicians being used without correction.
 
Last edited:
Fun fact: In the UK, fellows of the Royal College of Surgeons drop the title "Dr" and instead go by "Mr/Mr/Miss/Ms" as an ironic snub to the Royal College of Physicians.
 
PhuDdyDaddy said:
Hello. Please forgive one more thread on who should have the "right" to be called "Dr."
My son - a veterinarian - recently had an experience in his own clinic where a new client (a 40-something man) introduced himself with the words "Mr. Harrison, I hope you won't mind if I call you "Mr." instead of "Dr." I spent 11 years post-high school becoming an internist and I frankly find it offensive when vets call themselves 'Doctor.'"
My son mentioned that he had actually spent 13 years post-high school on his undergrad, DVM, internship, and surgical residency, but it did not impress the new client.
After my son told me this he suggested that I read some of the "who's a real doctor?" threads on this site. A lot of the comments made me a bit sad.
Personally, I don't find the issue that complicated.
In my son's practice, he's the doctor, yet he would still refer to his allopath client as Dr. Smith rather than Mr. Smith. That's courtesy and custom, not acknowledgement that Dr. Smith is equally qualified in veterinary matters or a broadly-superior human specimen.
If my son would visit Dr. Smith as a patient, I'd expect my son to be called Dr. Harrison out of courtesy and custom, not acknowledgement of any clinical equivalency.
I happen to be a Ph.D. engineer and the president of my company. I'm typically called Dr. Harrison by both staff and clients. It's a useful recognition of my preparation in my field for all the same reasons physicians are called "Dr." in clinical settings.
But when somebody asks me what I do, I never say "I'm a doctor." That would be intentionally misleading, and something I've never actually encountered with any of my colleagues. Similarly, my son would say "I'm a veterinarian." But in those rare NON-CLINICAL circumstances in which a physician would say "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones" rather than "Hi, I'm Steve Jones," I can't imagine why any physician would object to either my son or me introducing ourselves as Dr. Harrison.
Sorry. Catharsis over...
Click to expand...
I would have told your son to tell the guy "Dr Jones, get your needy ass out of my office right now, or I'll sic one of my large canine patients on you."
 
If a physician I saw was so concerned about his ego that he felt the need to correct his patient in this manner, I would be concerned that I may not be getting the best care, it appears this internist went into medicine for all the wrong reasons.
 
Looks like you’re doing quite well for yourself, OP. If you could just provide some assistance with these loans, I have no issues with renouncing the title and insisting on using my first name. I was planning on doing so anyway, but help with loans would still be very much appreciated.

P.S. In my entire life I came across only one person who I felt was over-using Dr due to her insecurities. She was studying for MCAT with me but never made it to med school. She really wanted to be a dermatologist but had to give up on her dreams and “settle” for pharmD. And now, after graduating, all her social medial profiles always have Dr. right in front of her name.
 
I would called the internist "Mr. Joe" and said "I won't call you Dr. Joe in a vet clinic because you don't know squat about veterinarian medicine"
 
Call him Doctor...the pretend confusion over intern vs internist is far funnier and sure to be far more infuriating for this guy.
 
WheezyBaby said:
I don't get hung up about being called Dr Wheezy, but if I was your son I'd tell that dude to get ****ed and move on with my day. Not worth dealing with anyone that pompous and lacking in etiquette if you don't have to
Click to expand...

Likewise, I would have fired the client on the spot for bringing his soapbox to my practice. Not on my time.
 
That internist is ******ed.
We don’t usually use the “R” word anymore, but sometimes it is warranted, like this jackhole. He’s got some strange chip in his shoulder and probably insecurity from some tiny gear as well. I bet he leases a Range Rover or S class.
Though as a sub specialist I don’t view internists in high regard either, so ... 😉


--
Il Destriero
 
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