Online Deg Program thru Accredited Uni

[firemedicrr]

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[message edited to bold one section of test to re-clarify; I feel this better shapes my question for the skimmers out there. Thanks all]

Hi All,

I posted a question related to this yesterday in the "What are my chances" forum, but since ultimately by the time I finish my prereq's and degree with my work schedule, I will be a non-trad I figured I'd ask here where some of you may have personal experience... I got some decent feedback there (call and ask the schools, make sure prereq's are from brink and mortar institution, etc) but I really would like some input from the non-trads as I identify more with this group since I have worked full time for the last 2 years.

I finished my AAS at a local CC. I have been looking into finish my BS in either Interdisciplinary Studies or Emergency Health Services as I am a Paramedic. I cannot find any local uni's that offer courses at times I could take them due to my work schedule, and because I'm a ways out from being done with my prereq's I don't think I'd be wise to quit my job at this point. I'm not in a position where I could do this due to rent/car payment/other financial responsibilities.

There are several reputable schools that offer degree programs online like I am looking for (GW, U Richmond, ODU).

Has anyone here done an online program and applied (successfully accepted or interviewed)? How did it go for you, if so?

To Clarify, I would not be taking my remaining science prereq's online. I can fit one course a semester in at one of my local uni's in the sciences (I have also debated doing a few more of them at the CC and then doing upper level courses at the uni). Again, I am not asking about taking a whole degree program online, but rather finishing the last 2 years of the program online, with all the MD prereq's completed in an accredited, 4 year brick and mortar institution.

As far as my stats go, I have a cGPA of 3.6 and a sGPA of 3.2 currently, which is lower than it would be due to a course mixup where I was registered fully for a class that I had only signed up to audit; no one realized this until after the add/drop date, so technically I failed the class. If I went DO I would have a current sGPA of 3.8.

Thanks for your time!

 

[DrMidlife]

What's missing with online study:
- hands on labs where you have to solve problems in groups with stuff not under your control
- faculty who can get to know you face to face and can then recommend you
- freedom from adcoms who question the rigor of your studies
- freedom from the eventual shock of being in a classroom again during med school

In my view, if you're not military/etc stationed overseas, you don't have an excuse to do online study.

If you can overcome questionable issues while doing online coursework, then own it and move forward. I doubt you can do well without doing at least some classroom coursework (such as one lecture+lab per term).

I suggest that you could complete your (useless, who are we kidding) online bachelors and then take a year-plus to do your premed prereqs in the classroom at a reputable program.

I suggest that you could look into financial aid possibilities to go to school full time.

If your audit story is legit, then go fight for that grade back. Don't give up until your transcript shows it as an audit. If you don't have any documentation to back up your claim, then just accept it and move forward.

Best of luck to you.

 

[typremed]

I can see the importance of taking the science prereqs at a brick and mortar school but I wouldn't think there would be a problem with other courses being online since practicaly every school offers some type of online degree program or courses. I'm not sure why there are still people who frown upon this method. It's a great use of todays technology.

 

[QofQuimica]

I can see the importance of taking the science prereqs at a brick and mortar school but I wouldn't think there would be a problem with other courses being online since practicaly every school offers some type of online degree program or courses. I'm not sure why there are still people who frown upon this method. It's a great use of todays technology.

It's because the vast majority of adcoms went to college long before the widespread use of the internet, and we have no general experience with the rigorousness of online curriculums, let alone any personal experience with having earned online degrees ourselves. I'm including myself in this group, because there wasn't any such thing as online coursework in the early to mid-1990s when I went to college, either.

Would I be biased against an applicant with an online degree? Well, I'd like to think I'd be open-minded enough to assess such an applicant holistically. In general, I'm not one of the adcoms who gets all caught up in what school an applicant has attended, being that I attended all state schools myself. (There are most certainly some people on my school's adcom who do care about what school the applicant attended.) However, I have to say that I do think I'd have some bias against someone with an online degree, especially if it wasn't affiliated with a brick-and-mortar school. I'm talking about giving extra scrutiny to their academic abilities (MCAT, GPA), because there ain't no going to med school (at least not accredited med schools!) over the internet.

There's no doubt in my mind that online college degrees will become more acceptable in the future, as Gen Y folks who are facile and experienced with these kinds of things move into positions of authority. However, at this point, the Gen Yers are my classmates, not the adcoms or the deans of medical schools. No doubt most of you nontrads won't want to wait another few decades for the online generation to take the reins. 😉

 

[FrkyBgStok]

i kind of agree and kind of disagree. if the classes don't indicate online than in theory they would never know. however that being said, if you live in arizona and it says you are currently living in arizona while pursuing a degree from the university of maryland it is going to throw up some red flags. now i am taking online classes through a state school and will eventually get a degree based on online classes, but i am only finishing up the electives (classical mythology, industrial/organizational psychology, classes like this). all hard science and "important" classes are either already completed or i am taking at one of the universities in my town. i work 50 hours a week at job 1, 20 hours a week at the hospital as a patient transporter, i am taking 21 credits including cell biology and physics (retake) at brick and mortar universities (the rest online) and i am an active volunteer in my children's school. I can't really fit in any more classroom classes, but like i said, i don't have important classes left. I will also finish completing hard sciences at local ones.

an issue with it is the state school has extension programs in my hometown as the school is a few hours away, so it easy to argue that i am doing an extension degree. so maybe look into this. fwiw.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I had a friend who got his degree from a certain online school that does heavy advertising and is named after a large city in Arizona. At the time, he was between buying houses and his family spent a few months living in my basement. So I was well acquainted with his class work.

It was a joke.

He was one of the highest scorers in his class, but he could not write a coherent paragraph. He misspelled simple words in his submissions. If I were a high school teacher of a composition class, he would have had a hard time getting a "C-".

But he graduated from this school with honors. I can just imagine what a "science" class from this university would look like: "Online" labs that consist of mixing chemicals and watching predictable and never varying colored solids precipitate.

I've took one class online from my college - Humanities II - and it was very nice. We were required to turn in several researched papers. I earned the A that I got. It wasn't as hard as the honors class I took from the Rhodes scholar, but it wasn't that much easier either.

 

[firemedicrr]

Thanks to everyone who has replied thus far, especially QofQuimica; I wish the GenY'ers were the ones over admissions already!!

I re-edited my original post to clarify my question. I know med schools wouldn't accept online sciences, and most don't look highly upon CC classes. I'm just curious for advice/opinions (especially if anyone has done something similar!) on completing the remaining 2 years of my B.S. online (also from an accredited school thru a distance program). Obviously, I would not be doing it if I didn't have to. I work 40+ hrs/week with a 1 hr commute each way at my one job and my second job varies but figure at least an additional 10hrs/week...

 

[jl lin]

Many universities and colleges (heck just about all of them) now use a combination of online courses and hybrid courses. Some of my courses were mixed like this, and they were VERY writing intensive. Much emphasis is given to research writing and proper support documentation, and a number of other things. They included real time sessions w/ professors and students, which were mandatory. Trust me, the coursework was time-consuming and stressful at times, as research-based writing usually is demanding. The grading rubrics can be rigorous too.

This medium for education has moved ahead and is still moving ahead.

Look, no one here is willing to go back to communicating primarily by way of the Pony Express or notes in bottles in the ocean.

But I will say that pre-medical science courses are best taken on campus--at least the labs should be. Also, you need facetime with the TAs and profs in the science lab courses.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Earning an accredited online degree from a top college or university will ensure that your hard work will be treated with respect by potential employers. Because a phony, non-accredited degree could be considered worthless in the working world, it is critical you are only researching online colleges and universities that have gained accreditation in your educational search.

And "accredited" online degree will not get you into medical school, period.

If your "accredited" online university can point to a single graduate of theirs, one who took all or most of their courses through them, who got accepted to an American medical school ( not the Caribbean ) then I will gladly accepted correction. But you cannot get into medical school by taking courses at the University of Phoenix.

Edit: I'm not referring to a brick-and-mortar school who happens to offer a few courses online. I'm taking a few online courses myself. I'm referring to "online" schools who offer bachelor degrees "online".

If they are advertising "earn your degree online", then the medical schools know about them and they will not accept the courses or the degree.

 

[jl lin]

And "accredited" online degree will not get you into medical school, period.

I'm not at all sure this is true. It would depend on the program and the precise KIND of accreditation—regional, etc., and it would depend upon where the pre-med sciences were taken--preferably brick and mortar—preferably at a university or four-year with strong science departments.

Said well by an anonymous person: 'Degrees are conferred by organizations/institutions of higher education not the Internet.' Know the school. Know the program. Know the faculty.



To the OP: Find graduates and speak with them--and/or those in pursuit. Find out if the school/program is accredited by one of the six regional accrediting organizations under the US Department of Education. Check out the professional accrediting agencies as well.

I'll try to get back later. Have to go to work.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I'm not at all sure this is true. It would depend on the program and the precise KIND of accreditation—regional, etc., and it would depend upon where the pre-med sciences were taken--preferably brick and mortar—preferably at a university or four-year with strong science departments.

Said well by an anonymous person: 'Degrees are conferred by organizations/institutions of higher education not the Internet.' Know the school. Know the program. Know the faculty.



To the OP: Find graduates and speak with them--and/or those in pursuit. Find out if the school/program is accredited by one of the six regional accrediting organizations under the US Department of Education. Check out the professional accrediting agencies as well.

I'll try to get back later. Have to go to work.

Accredited shmaccredited. If you go to a school that everyone knows is online (and the Medical schools DO know the schools - I was shocked when talking to the Yale admissions director one day to find out that he knew about Tulsa's peculiar public university system) then you aren't going to get interviews.

 

[jl lin]

Accredited shmaccredited. If you go to a school that everyone knows is online (and the Medical schools DO know the schools - I was shocked when talking to the Yale admissions director one day to find out that he knew about Tulsa's peculiar public university system) then you aren't going to get interviews.

Regional accreditation through a reputable university DOES make a GREAT difference, as does the school, it's reputation, program development, many factors.

Let's see Penn State knows this as does UC Berkley, Cornell, Rutgers University, UC Irvine, UMUC, Vanderbilt, . . .etc. There are many more. You don't think there is a sound reason for B&M institutions developing very good programs with the use of this delivery?


"Peculiar" is indeed what you should look out for. But one must consider proper regional accreditation and oversight, all program and similar program development and information from the degree-granting institution, including faculty, and deans, and how delivery is used in collaboration with what.



Do you honestly think a necessarily better offering of quality and delivery of education comes from a community college over some of these programs? I'm not at all knocking community colleges mind you. Like all things it depends on a lot of factors.


Don't simply be stuck on what you perceive is the "appearance" of a delivery method w/o looking into all the major details of schools and programs granting the degrees. That is not using objective, critical thinking or even total factual information at all. To me it seems that you are doing what you have oft blamed other of doing. That is, you seem to be using your anecdotal (or what you know of a few "programs" and perhaps a few conversations in your "radar") as the driving force behind your "facts" without doing anywhere near enough research.


Wow.


It's like the misinformation given by those that actually believe a person can become a RN or NP or APN by way of some 100% on line program. It's not going to happen.

There are programs to help advance some education for those that have gone through clinical practicums in nursing as well as all the other requirements and have passed the NCLEX. But no one without licensure and having met NLN and other regional accredited oversight for nursing and allied health is just going to only do some online coursework and become a RN. You can't even sit for the NCLEX unless you attend a school whereby you have met all the didactic and clinical requirements, and with few exception, the standards are the same. No one can just walk in and take the NCLEX, nope, not even LPNs.


In a similar way, your are NOT going to become an advanced practice nurse w/o having met all the academic and clinical requirements to sit before the NCLEX, hopefully pass, and then get licensed. Just like you aren't going to get into an advanced practice program of nursing w/o a BSN. And you are definitely NOT going to become a CRNA, NP of any kind, or an RNFA (surgical first assistant) without the proper academics, on campus requirements, and then all the clinical hours/practicums, which you must pass (separately evaluated), even if you have a GPA of 4.0 in your nursing program.



See your and this kind of misinformation makes my headache.


And trust me, I mean I am by know means a huge supporter of "midlevels" overstepping into medicine, not at all. But when I read some of these posts saying that 'some nurse that gets an NP from an online program (as if it's all or even mostly online) is going to take my job from me,' well, I am flabbergasted.

I mean people really believe it actually works that way???? LOLOLOL NO. It doesn't. If the programs do not meet all the requirements, including the professional well as well as federal and regional oversight, forget it. They are closed down.

So it is true for properly accredited programs through reputable universities and colleges.



Yes, I digressed a bit. I get a littled bugged about misinformation like this.



Ed, I don't know much if anything about University of Phoenix, but truly there are a lot of programs you'd need to comb through thoroughly before you can make such a sweeping statement.

What I do remember about University of Phoenix (besides the fact that people call in U of P, and that annoys me, b/c U of P is the University of Pennsylvania, which to my knowledge is still an ivy league school) was there was a question as to the validity or the KIND of accreditation it had. You betcha your ear lobes that KIND of accreditation, school, and program specifics make a difference. You have to look for proper regional accreditation and oversight as well as number of other things.
You have to investigate all of the specifics. It depends on the who, what, where, how, etc ofthe degree-granting institution.

Details man, details.

 

[MCAT guy]

Online school?

 

[MCAT guy]

Accredited shmaccredited. If you go to a school that everyone knows is online (and the Medical schools DO know the schools - I was shocked when talking to the Yale admissions director one day to find out that he knew about Tulsa's peculiar public university system) then you aren't going to get interviews.

Agreed with Ed.

Do you guys realize how competitive the field is!?

Take advice from people who have applied or been on interviews... ain't no joke!

 

[MCAT guy]

To Clarify, I would not be taking my remaining science prereq's online. I can fit one course a semester in at one of my local uni's in the sciences (I have also debated doing a few more of them at the CC and then doing upper level courses at the uni). Again, I am not asking about taking a whole degree program online, but rather finishing the last 2 years of the program online, with all the MD prereq's completed in an accredited, 4 year brick and mortar institution.

As far as my stats go, I have a cGPA of 3.6 and a sGPA of 3.2 currently, which is lower than it would be due to a course mixup where I was registered fully for a class that I had only signed up to audit; no one realized this until after the add/drop date, so technically I failed the class. If I went DO I would have a current sGPA of 3.8.

Thanks for your time!

You will definitely have a super tough time applying to MDs with 2 years of online coursework.

If there happens to be an MD school that offers an online MD then you will be in luck, but I'm not aware of any! Remember, the school work is to show them you can perform in medical school (which isn't online).

I can't say enough how competitive the field is. Some schools have 10,000 applicants and interview 1,000 people, only to accept 1/3 or sometimes less. Imagine how picky an adcom can be in this scenario. The opinions here matter as some Adcoms have 4th year students who chime in (students understand that online is sub par).

HIGHLY INADVISABLE.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Online school?

I'm digging this one lately...

 

[MCAT guy]

I'm digging this one lately...

awesome. lol, I will have to bookmark this thread when I need this again.

 

[EdLongshanks]

... Don't be simply stuck on what you perceive is the "appearance" of a delivery method w/o looking into all the major details of schools and programs granting the degrees. That is not using objective, critical thinking or even total factual information at all. To me it seems that you are doing what you have oft blamed other of doing. That is, you seem to be using your anecdotal (or what you know of a few "programs" in your "radar" as the driving force of "facts" for your beliefs and bias without doing anywhere near enough research.

Ok, all I have is anecdotal evidence. Do you have any evidence that any graduate of any online school has ever been accepted into any medical school?

Here is my anecdote. I go to interviews. I am from a regional state school (not even one of the state's flagship schools) from a state that is known for poor education. On the day that I am interviewing there is not a single one of my classmates in the room. Not only are there few students from my school, I don't see a single interviewee from a similarly low-ranked school. Even the state school has only a few there. Most of the interviewees are from Harvard, Hopkins, GWU, Rice ....

The fact is that it is hard to get into ANY medical school, even the state schools, with a local degree. You have to have a superior MCAT to even get an interview.

I have yet to hear of one student from an online school even getting an interview. If you have a single example, please let us know.

And... until you are in the process of applying, and you find out how difficult this is, it might be a good idea for you not to give people a low-ball estimate of how they can become a doctor. You've got some good experience on people with nursing backgrounds. Speak from that experience.

 

[jl lin]

Ok, all I have is anecdotal evidence. Do you have any evidence that any graduate of any online school has ever been accepted into any medical school?

Here is my anecdote. I go to interviews. I am from a regional state school (not even one of the state's flagship schools) from a state that is known for poor education. On the day that I am interviewing there is not a single one of my classmates in the room. Not only are there few students from my school, I don't see a single interviewee from a similarly low-ranked school. Even the state school has only a few there. Most of the interviewees are from Harvard, Hopkins, GWU, Rice ....

The fact is that it is hard to get into ANY medical school, even the state schools, with a local degree. You have to have a superior MCAT to even get an interview.

I have yet to hear of one student from an online school even getting an interview. If you have a single example, please let us know.

And... until you are in the process of applying, and you find out how difficult this is, it might be a good idea for you not to give people a low-ball estimate of how they can become a doctor. You've got some good experience on people with nursing backgrounds. Speak from that experience.

Look, do some more research. Competitiveness is an issue, period.
You can count it into age, science course pre-reqs from community college, whether it is harder for a younger, white male to get into medical school as compared with others. You could even say, "Hey, those that majored only in biology or biochemisty have the best shot." You can use any number of factors.

That has nothing to do with many schools degree programs and how acceptable and in a number of cases, exceptional their programs are.

Geez, what was Cornell, Rutgers, Penn State, and so many other I don't have time to name thinking?



Also the OP stated she is taking the pre-med prereqs at a B&M CC. Hey I from the outset stated that is necessary.

But about the degree, NO. It depends on the school and the program.




BTW, Ed, please don't tell me what I should and shouldn't speak from. That's beyond rude and arrogant. You have no idea of what my overall base of knowledge is, and I contend that yours with re: to degree completion with highly respected schools --all B&M mind you, through online delivery systems--s very weak and biased.

I know people enjoy arguing, but one can only waste so much time on things.


Bottom line: There are many excellent degree-completion programs that use online delivery systems, both synchronous and asynchronous as well other aspects to the programs that are NOT University of Phoenix or are like it, which grant accepted/acceptable degrees--the coursework is the same and in line with those taking courses on campus.

Like I said details.



BTW, when did we bring MCAT into this discussion? That is a given. OP wasn't talking about that. Oy and veh!

 

[Pons Asinorum]

...Oy and veh!

Too much talking-past-your-interlocutor in this thread for me.

OP - get an online degree if you live in the Northwest Territories, but somehow still have internet access. Otherwise, you would be wise to take classes at the most competitive and rigorous program you can possibly make work for you income/time. There will be hundreds of other applicants who will have your same stats, applying for the same seats, that won't have an online-program asterisk next to their GPA, which will exist for the reasons Q eloquently laid out. I've said it a thousand times, until someone can make a credible argument that [insert your "different" way of doing it here] is in fact PREFERABLE to the proven, conventional way of applying for and receiving acceptances to MD programs, I'm going to go ahead an make a strong recommendation to just do it the old-fashioned way. It works. Why add doubt to your application, when as a non-trad you'll already have enough build-in questions of whether or not you can cut it.

 

[jl lin]

Also Ed, I see by your profile that you have applied to about 6 schools. I noticed none of them is DO . So, like 4 out of the 6 are top-tiered allopathic? And certainly that is totally your business, and I wish you the best. Still
it causes me wonder about a few things. Not everyone cares about such things. At the end of the day, they want to get into medical school. It's nice to shoot for the stars, but as a non-trad especially, the goal is to get into a decent medical school program, work hard and grow, continue to bust your butt through residency and all the steps before and after, and then work hard for several years as one moves from novice to expert--so that one can provide the best care one is cabable of providing.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Also Ed, I see by your profile that you have applied to about 6 schools. I noticed none of them is DO . So, like 4 out of the 6 are top-tiered allopathic? And certainly that is totally your business, and I wish you the best. Still
it causes me wonder about a few things. Not everyone cares about such things. At the end of the day, they want to get into medical school. It's nice to shoot for the stars, but as a non-trad especially, the goal is to get into a decent medical school program, work hard and grow, continue to bust your butt through residency and all the steps before and after, and then work hard for several years as one moves from novice to expert--so that one can provide the best care one is cabable of providing.

Is there a question in that or is this just meant as a catty comment? Do you mean to criticize Ed's school application list specifically or to criticize everyone who chooses to only apply to MD programs? Me = Confused.

 

[MCAT guy]

Well, now that we've settled this let's celebrate!

 

[jl lin]

Is there a question in that or is this just meant as a catty comment? Do you mean to criticize Ed's school application list specifically or to criticize everyone who chooses to only apply to MD programs? Me = Confused.

No. It means applying to six schools where four are top tiered hardly makes one an expert on the value of a number of things. . .

and that would include unfair bias on schools that, as a matter of fact, are B&M, well established, highly respected, and have excellent online programs for course completion.

It was NOT a tit-for-tat re: Ed's rude and condescending final reply to me.

If you noticed, I wished him well, as I always have.



No more of this back and forth.


The OP should consider all her options. Now I don't know anything, admittedly, about the programs she was initially referring--but I do have some knowledge about some very excellent schools that are directly part of some fine B&M institutions of higher learning that are worthy of consideration.


This is strikingly similar to the arguments about how CC's course or pre-req's will kill a person's application and chances. Maybe they will, and maybe they won't. It ALL DEPENDS on a number of things--including looking at one's WHOLE application.

If the person wants to move forward, she will have to choose a path that works right for her life and situatution.

Each person has to take the approach that best suits them, just as Ed chose the path and the number and type of applications that best suits him. Granted, he, they, she, any of us may have to change some things in our approach. Eg., Ed may have consider applying to more schools, perhaps including a DO program, or he may have to consider a SMP--whatever it takes to up his overall chances. That will be for him to know and find out, just as it is for each one of us. The path is a personal one in which you do the best you can to get to the particular goal. So, if the OP goes such a route as a sound B&M with a strong online completion program and ends up having to do a SMP or appy more broadly, or even consider St George or a similar program, so be it. The end game is still the same. You can say we are all sitting at a poker table, and to some degree that's true. But in the end it makes no difference IF a supposedly "traditional" path causes the person to bottom out in other ways and thus further decrease their chances.


[OT and BTW, I know more than six physicians that attended schools out of the country and SG's, and a few in particular immediately got a residency in Newark. One fellow I know personally completed it with flying colors, and is part of a booming family practice in a very nice area making >$200,000/year and loving where he lives and what he is doing. So it is doable. Maybe not the best path to take, but it worked for him and it has worked for others. It is not necessarily the kiss of death. What seemed to pay off most for these folks is PERSISTENCE.]


I do, with absolutely good reason, take exception to Ed's sweeping generalizations--and have listed some excellent schools and there are others. The degrees that are granted in these programs are the exact same degree granted if one were to attend their courses on their campuses. The professors and such that teach async or sync teach the same courses on campus.

Again, the GLARING exception overall here is with re: to pre-med science pre-reqs and course with labs, or courses that require clinical practicums, or say in teaching, direct observation of teaching, etc. I have already noted this, and the OP already stated that at least for her pre-med prereqs, she is taking them at a B&M. How many times does one have to say something.

(And there is NO question that MCAT scores will make a difference.)

Since the schools to which I am referring are offering the same degree as what they have on campus, it will be required that any course requirements that involve clinical practicum or teaching presentations, etc be done on the approved clinical sites and on campus sites.

Again, these offer the SAME degree as what one obtains on campus.

Labs and practicums must be completed on sites and campus. No way around that.

These are not correspondence courses or simply ppt programs. The online work has a certain amount in real time, and there can be tons of writing and research, and b/c of people with silly biases like some folks, the professors can and often do up the demands of the grading rubrics for a number of online courses. This is definitely one reason why such programs ARE NOT for everyone.


I'm sorry. I'm am just not getting how there is a place for such bias and ignorance with re: to such things. If you don't know the many schools, the degree programs, all the details and requirements, how it the world can you make a sweeping generalization in an informed, intelligent way? Study some excellent B&M schools with great online completion programs. You may be quite amazed.


How each person works the numbers in their favor in order to make the best application possible is a personal plan that requires some intensive research, not presumptions and bias.

MY point? If you only apply to six programs, four of which are top tier, you limit your chances and pershaps your perspective on the big picture as well.

Hope that answers you question.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Is there a question in that or is this just meant as a catty comment? Do you mean to criticize Ed's school application list specifically or to criticize everyone who chooses to only apply to MD programs? Me = Confused.

I started it by telling her to not advise people on the application process. So, I'm to blame for the claws.

Jil, my state school is by no means "top tier" allopathic. Nevertheless, the people in the first set of interviews there (the only ones with a really good chance of getting in) were all either from one of the state flagship schools (a few) the local highly rated private school (a few) or ivy-league (most).

As far as I know, I was the only one who came from a no name school in the early interviews. I was at the pre-med club at my school this week, and no one there had gotten an interview yet.

No one from an online school was invited, nor, I will confidently say, will they be. And this school is not terribly hard on applicants. In order to get a less selective school, you would have to be a resident of one of the states that is hurting for qualified doctors even more than my state is.

 

[jl lin]

I started it by telling her to not advise people on the application process. So, I'm to blame for the claws.

Jil, my state school is by no means "top tier" allopathic. Nevertheless, the people in the first set of interviews there (the only ones with a really good chance of getting in) were all either from one of the state flagship schools (a few) the local highly rated private school (a few) or ivy-league (most).

As far as I know, I was the only one who came from a no name school in the early interviews. I was at the pre-med club at my school this week, and no one there had gotten an interview yet.

No one from an online school was invited, nor, I will confidently say, will they be. And this school is not terribly hard on applicants. In order to get a less selective school, you would have to be a resident of one of the states that is hurting for qualified doctors even more than my state is.

I know your state school is not, that is why I mentioned the other four. Nevertheless, how do you KNOW THIS?

Why do I ask and say this? The DEGREE granted from these B&M schools for this delivery system is the same given from the B&M with the on-campus program--at least with re: to reputable programs to which I speak.

Again, I too have problems with University of Phoenix, and I can't speak to the OP's programs she mentioned.

I would recommend if she goes this route that she finds a program that comes out of a reputable B&M university or four year and that she does a lot of research and direct evaluation and on campus visit and discussiong with program coordinators and deans etc. I continue to recommend that she takes labs and practicums on campus and on the approved sites, kills the MCAT, and get loads of clinical experience.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

...I continue to recommend that she takes labs and practicums on campus and on the approved sites, kills the MCAT, and get loads of clinical experience.

Agreed. I just think that the OP should take online coursework if it is absolutely the ONLY POSSIBLE way what that they can. I won't argue with you over the quality of certain online programs; you pass my knowledge smell test. I just strongly agree with Q's comments above re: setting up unnecessary hurdles in the process of proving your bona fides to adcoms. Like you said, this same type of argument comes up in a number of areas, CC vs. 4-year primarily. I'm not aiming to quixotically chase after everyone's confirmation biases. I just recommend that non-trads try to "non-tradify" themselves as much as possible with regards to the standard MD application requirements. Let your unique story be what's unique; don't stack on top of your interesting background the need to also explain why you decided to meet the different MD prerequisites in a way that will be most likely foreign to the people who will decide your fate. Make it easy for them to accept you and feel good that they are adding incoming class age- and experience-diversity in the most risk-free way possible. Does that not seem broadly reasonable, regardless of what the anecdotal evidence seems to reveal?

 

[jl lin]

Agreed. I just think that the OP should take online coursework if it is absolutely the ONLY POSSIBLE way what that they can. I won't argue with you over the quality of certain online programs; you pass my knowledge smell test. I just strongly agree with Q's comments above re: setting up unnecessary hurdles in the process of proving your bona fides to adcoms. Like you said, this same type of argument comes up in a number of areas, CC vs. 4-year primarily. I'm not aiming to quixotically chase after everyone's confirmation biases. I just recommend that non-trads try to "non-tradify" themselves as much as possible with regards to the standard MD application requirements. Let your unique story be what's unique; don't stack on top of your interesting background the need to also explain why you decided to meet the different MD prerequisites in a way that will be most likely foreign to the people who will decide your fate. Make it easy for them to accept you and feel good that they are adding incoming class age- and experience-diversity in the most risk-free way possible. Does that not seem broadly reasonable, regardless of what the anecdotal evidence seems to reveal?

I agree. But as pointed out before, the OP stated that she is taking her sci pre-reqs not online but through a CC.
I mean she was saying how she was struggling with how she had things set up. It wasn't working for her, so she has to move ahead and find out some legit approach that works for her.

I too could not recommend taking the sci pre-reqs online, since for certain courses this approach is fraught with what seems like obvious problems. I mean that is like trying to get a nursing degree all online without first being a nurse. It will not work b/c of the clinicals and b/c of all the approval and accreditation requirments--and that's a good thing. Certain courses require direct, physical, mental, and emotional application and interactions. It is just as someone was saying about obtaining a medical degree online. Sure you could do a hybrid approach and get a lot of didactic through some good online learning, but you will never be able to meet or be evaluated in RL application via an all online delivery system. I mean this seems so obvious to me. And that's why when I hear people go on about people becoming NPs or RNs online, it amazes me. It can't be done, and it shouldn't be done.


It is interesting that interactive video-conferencing lectures at multiple sites are becoming quite a thing in schools and med schools. Where such technologies can be used well, they should be used. Obviously that doesn't mean they take the place of all other forms of learning and evaluation of learning.

Still, these technological delivery mediums will continue to grow in usage everywhere. (Sort of like how I envision people walking around using their IPADs as they go through their work day. God, I do love my IPAD. 🙂 )


But I admit, the whole deal about how things look on the surface of things is problematic to me. And that has always been my position with education. I contend that simply because a person holds a degree or title, it does not necessarily mean they are educated. Conversely, simply b/c one does not hold a degree and title does not mean that they are NOT educated. And in truth, just about all educational mediums can give a student an outline of things, but ultimately it up to the student to really flesh out the information. The degree to which that is done will depend upon the mind, soul, and motivation of the individual learner. No one can MAKE anyone learn anything. Internal motivation and an open, inquisitive mind can make up for a lot of dry or boring or sketchy information.

Anyway, the OP has gotten a number of insights here, and I wish her the best.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I contend that simply because a person holds a degree or title, it does not necessarily mean they are educated.

True. Today's undergraduate system is more about credentialing than educating, which is unfortunate.

Anyway, the OP has gotten a number of insights here, and I wish her the best.

Same.

 

[DPT2DO]

Not taking sides, but I had to throw this out there. I have yet to see anyone in my situation so here goes the first "case study" on the online course-taker.

I've taken 2 science pre-req's online (8 credits) and have thus far received interviews at both MD/DO. A couple of schools did reject me outright for this reason and I really don't blame them, but most schools have seemed fairly neutral to my taking online courses. Keep in mind that I have a graduate degree (DPT), so my situation may be somewhat different than others. I took these online courses while simultaneously taking other pre-req's at a different B & M institution, while working > full-time, while volunteering, etc etc. so I think the schools understood my particular situation. The online courses also included virtual laboratories.

Still awaiting the final outcome though . I intend on posting some specifics when the app season is finalized.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Depends what type of "online" classes you are taking. I'm taking an elective "Medical Terminology" class. I also took some Biology survey when I was an undergrad (currently post-bacc) that didn't count toward the prerequisite courses. I think neither of these will affect my chances to medical school since they aren't very important courses. However, if you're have a great percentage of courses online, it may be viewed negatively.

On a side note to what EdLongshanks said about online degrees, I agree with him. I personally know a guy that has a 98% average in his masters of Biomedical Engineering Technology from DeVry who cannot, after 3 attempts, pass general chemistry 1 at a community college.

 

[jl lin]

Depends what type of "online" classes you are taking. I'm taking an elective "Medical Terminology" class. I also took some Biology survey when I was an undergrad (currently post-bacc) that didn't count toward the prerequisite courses. I think neither of these will affect my chances to medical school since they aren't very important courses. However, if you're have a great percentage of courses online, it may be viewed negatively.

On a side note to what EdLongshanks said about online degrees, I agree with him. I personally know a guy that has a 98% average in his masters of Biomedical Engineering Technology from DeVry who cannot, after 3 attempts, pass general chemistry 1 at a community college.

Once more, it all depends on the program. You really have to do a ton of indirect as well as direct research if it's about degree completion. It's a real educational process. Any school, even if it is out of a reputable B&M university, that offers full programs online from start to finish--credit 1 to say credit 120 or so w/o any work that goes beyond online is PROBABLY going to be a problem.

Again, there is a lot more to it, and you have to do your research.

Beyond any of this I will say for strong, reputable programs that use a lot of online for educational delivery, well if you are not prepared to research and write your butt off forget it. If you have trouble getting at the work of researching, writing, formating and following rigid documentation guidelines and doing so w/o external prompting, forget it. If you aren't prepared to reach out to the professors or APs on your own, forget it. If you are afraid to participate in writing or have your peers review your work, forget it. Basically, if you aren't into reading and writing intensive stuff, you can forget them, even if they are solid, reputable programs. If you just want to hear lectures and take a quiz or test every once in a while, and have to hand in an occasional write up or thesis work, well it's not for you. You can actually have some excellent interactions writing back and forth with profs and others. The expectation to function is more along the lines of upper level to grad level in really good programs, and they don't easily dole out the top grades on your work.

In fact, you will hear students complain at times about not getting top grades--b/c in writing intensive courses and such there will always be some uncomfortable level of subjective evaluation. I mean even with pretty clear rubrics and review of standards for grades, it can be tough with some professors to get to, for example, a top score of 5 in terms of the criteria. You can go through your work and have plenty of others go through it. At the end of the day it still comes down to what the professor will pick apart. And you may have to have a ton of interactions with the prof via online, phone, VC, or in person before you get what they are looking for in your work. Writing for what course is calling for can be quite a challenge, even if you are a good writer. Even if you and others see the logic in the research you cited, they can still pick it apart. It's kind of painstaking at times; but it is a stretching sort of work. Good programs don't make it easy, and really they shouldn't.



I am sorry but I still feel it is beyond ill-considered to pass unfair judgement on a number of good programs that run along side of their school's B&M w/o giving them the due diligence of solid, balanced research.

And now let's get serious. Whether it be U of Phoenix, DeVry, whatever, if the school and program do not have a solid reputation and the flagships to them seem questionable as well, you are wasting some serious time and money. And isn't Devry primarily more of a "business" paraprofessional school? Again, people really have to do their research and due diligence. You can't just jump on the first program that puts a "pop-up" on your computer screen for heaven's sake.

Of course it's going to be a problem if a school and/or program has issues with many of things I spoke about earlier in this thread regarding sound oversight, etc, or if it is viewed in general as say the 'South Hampton Institute of Technology'😱--remember that one from the movie "Accepted?" (That was clearly a ridicuous movie. But hey, every once in a while we sit through something completely idiotic.) I still can't get over the "Glen wads."

 

[CookDeRosa]

OP- your answer will not be found in this forum, simply there are too many opinions and not enough experience or knowledge about this topic to provide helpful direction.

(Longshanks wanted to know if anyone with online degrees got into med school- do an MDapps search, in <5 minutes I found 4 admissions with online degrees. Maybe they all lied? Maybe there are more.)

In 2001 (almost a decade ago!) 89% of public 4 year universities were already offering online courses, higher for 2 year colleges. These are NOT private for profits, these are B&M universities.
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/peqis/publications/2003017/
The numbers now are...lower? Yeah.

Here are the facts. If you are attending a regionally accredited B&M university, you can simply contact the registrar and ASK if your transcript will designate distance learning. Usually it doesn't. In other words MAT121 is MAT121 is college algebra. So, if you graduate from University of Iowa, your transcript doesn't make a distinction. So, within the college of a university, you can pepper your degree with online classes and it is indistinguishable.

**If you start an entire degree and finish an entire degree through the continuing education/adult education/extension college, this will likely not be the same - so check.

The short version is that you are in a forum of intensely competitive people who are fighting like hell for a seat. The likelihood of someone here helping you find a way to cut in front of them in line?..well...what do you expect? Dog eat dog.

 

[CookDeRosa]

I personally know a guy that has a 98% average in his masters of Biomedical Engineering Technology from DeVry who cannot, after 3 attempts, pass general chemistry 1 at a community college.

I think your friend might be fibbing, DeVry doesn't appear to offer any such degree. 😱 www.devry.edu

 

[jl lin]

OP- your answer will not be found in this forum, simply there are too many opinions and not enough experience or knowledge about this topic to provide helpful direction.

(Longshanks wanted to know if anyone with online degrees got into med school- do an MDapps search, in <5 minutes I found 4 admissions with online degrees. Maybe they all lied? Maybe there are more.)

In 2001 (almost a decade ago!) 89% of public 4 year universities were already offering online courses, higher for 2 year colleges. These are NOT private for profits, these are B&M universities.
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/peqis/publications/2003017/
The numbers now are...lower? Yeah.

Here are the facts. If you are attending a regionally accredited B&M university, you can simply contact the registrar and ASK if your transcript will designate distance learning. Usually it doesn't. In other words MAT121 is MAT121 is college algebra. So, if you graduate from University of Iowa, your transcript doesn't make a distinction. So, within the college of a university, you can pepper your degree with online classes and it is indistinguishable.

**If you start an entire degree and finish an entire degree through the continuing education/adult education/extension college, this will likely not be the same - so check.

The short version is that you are in a forum of intensely competitive people who are fighting like hell for a seat. The likelihood of someone here helping you find a way to cut in front of them in line?..well...what do you expect? Dog eat dog.

It's good to see more perspectives. Thanks for posting this. I did try to give some help to the OP, since her particular situation wasn't working out, and I have done some research on this issue. I also hate unfair bias and generalization. But the pro-arguments, and you also pointed out, have some caveats worthy of a good amount of consideration--and again research.


But I don't think anyone was necessarily trying to limit the OP or NOT help her. I think that people have run to imbalanced conclusion mostly based on bias. So how to try to help that? Well, you try to share sound information, and you try to get them to explore the issue/s more fully.

And then some folks will just continue to believe what they want to believe w/o further and fuller exploration. And that is how biases take over and influence groups of people in wrong ways.



Also I think what we are saying is getting a full degree (from start--> credit 1) to finish (credit 120 or 130 or whatever) all online is going to be problematic, unless as was stated earlier, you are in the military or have a really good reason. You have do all of the research and consider things carefully. But there are some great degree completion programs and such that come out of reputable B&M institutions that use a good part of this delivery system to help a person complete her/his degree. If they do their work and it's a solid program, well then what can you say? They have done the work and have thus earned the conferred degree. A lot of it is like transfer students coming into the B&M but using Internet delivery system to help them complete the work for a lot of it.

 

[CookDeRosa]

It's good to see more perspectives. Thanks for posting this. I did try to give some help to the OP, since her particular situation wasn't working out, and I have done some research on this issue. I also hate unfair bias and generalization. But the pro-arguments, and you also pointed out, have some caveats worthy of a good amount of consideration--and again research.


But I don't think anyone was necessarily trying to limit the OP or NOT help her. I think that people have run to imbalanced conclusion mostly based on bias. So how to try to help that? Well, you try to share sound information, and you try to get them to explore the issue/s more fully.

And then some folks will just continue to believe what they want to believe w/o further and fuller exploration. And that is how biases take over and influence groups of people in wrong ways.



Also I think what we are saying is getting a full degree (from start--> credit 1) to finish (credit 120 or 130 or whatever) all online is going to be problematic, unless as was stated earlier, you are in the military or have a really good reason. You have do all of the research and consider things carefully. But there are some great degree completion programs and such that come out of reputable B&M institutions that use a good part of this delivery system to help a person complete her/his degree. If they do their work and it's a solid program, well then what can you say? They have done the work and have thus earned the conferred degree. A lot of it is like transfer students coming into the B&M but using Internet delivery system to help them complete the work for a lot of it.

I don't think you and I disagree. The thing is, that online learning is here. The problem is, that it's riddle with problems. The problems are what shape the reputation and stereotypes. My suggestion for someone who wants to use distance learning would be to enroll in a traditional regionally accredited B&M university earning a traditional degree and from there, choose distance options. Even in conservative schools, you'd likely be able to take DL courses off-major. Also, any community college -correction EVERY community college, will have one or more articulation agreements with a university in your state. Per those agreements, anything you take a the cc level will be accepted as "block credit" toward your 4 year degree. So technically, it's easier and more likely that your first two years could be online and the last 2 as face to face.

True story- 11 years ago my husband and I sat in the office of a title company to close on our home. The seller and their very mature lawyer sat across the table from us. Upon signing the mortgage papers, the seller's lawyer said he didn't recognize the name of the bank we were using. I said they were an out of state bank. He was confused. He asked why we would drive out of state to get a loan. I explained that we didn't drive out of state, we rate-shopped and got the loan online. He GOT UP AND WALKED OUT of the closing. He refused to "allow" his client to sell to anyone using "the internet" for something as serious as a loan. He was sure that we were being scammed, and he didn't want any part of it. Fast forward- it all worked out and we lived in that home for many years.

My point is, ideas evolve, and accepted standards change. Education is changing - it is up to the student to a) know what they need b) be sure they are actually getting what they think they are buying.

 

[EdLongshanks]

The short version is that you are in a forum of intensely competitive people who are fighting like hell for a seat. The likelihood of someone here helping you find a way to cut in front of them in line?..well...what do you expect? Dog eat dog.

Nonsense, this forum is about helping people succeed and an online "degree" is a path to failure.

Note; We are not talking about online "courses" almost everybody has taken those - including me. I am taking a "blended" course now and one of my 4000 level science courses next semester is entirely online.

Secondly, of course the online courses the military offers for deployed troops are an exception - duh. Being deployed is not an "easy way out" and is not treated that way.

There are no ways to "cut" in line for medical school. If there were, then the new "cut" would develop its own line. The advice in this forum tries to inform these newcomers of how competitive the process is. Those who have not gone through it sometimes try to misinform them that it isn't that hard. It is.

The advice in this thread is pretty clearly divided into two groups. Those who haven't yet applied, and those who have.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I think your friend might be fibbing, DeVry doesn't appear to offer any such degree. 😱 www.devry.edu

Could be that he's full of it, although maybe he meant the bachelors of it. I see they have a Biomedical Engineering Technology one. He told me he has severe PTSD from when he was in the service (and it is noticeable because he shakes like crazy when he feels challenged).

 

[MCAT guy]

Nonsense, this forum is about helping people succeed and an online "degree" is a path to failure.

Note; We are not talking about online "courses" almost everybody has taken those - including me. I am taking a "blended" course now and one of my 4000 level science courses next semester is entirely online.

Secondly, of course the online courses the military offers for deployed troops are an exception - duh. Being deployed is not an "easy way out" and is not treated that way.

There are no ways to "cut" in line for medical school. If there were, then the new "cut" would develop its own line. The advice in this forum tries to inform these newcomers of how competitive the process is. Those who have not gone through it sometimes try to misinform them that it isn't that hard. It is.

The advice in this thread is pretty clearly divided into two groups. Those who haven't yet applied, and those who have.

Although Ed has been blunt, I completely agree with him.

No one is saying "if you take a single online course you will never get in!", obviously adcoms want to know you can succeed and if 90% of your science classes are challenging and NOT online, you would likely be fine. Also if you have a few online pre-reqs followed by a graduate degree, this is again obviously different from only have online courses.

I agree what Ed has said, those of us who have filled out apps, applied, been on the interview trail, and those who have been fortunate enough to get in, will tell you to avoid online at all costs.

The medical community is a very conservative bunch. fyi. (I should mention I've been referring to MD admissions, I don't know as much about DO admissions).

 

[jl lin]

I don't think you and I disagree. The thing is, that online learning is here. The problem is, that it's riddle with problems. The problems are what shape the reputation and stereotypes. My suggestion for someone who wants to use distance learning would be to enroll in a traditional regionally accredited B&M university earning a traditional degree and from there, choose distance options. Even in conservative schools, you'd likely be able to take DL courses off-major. Also, any community college -correction EVERY community college, will have one or more articulation agreements with a university in your state. Per those agreements, anything you take a the cc level will be accepted as "block credit" toward your 4 year degree. So technically, it's easier and more likely that your first two years could be online and the last 2 as face to face.

True story- 11 years ago my husband and I sat in the office of a title company to close on our home. The seller and their very mature lawyer sat across the table from us. Upon signing the mortgage papers, the seller's lawyer said he didn't recognize the name of the bank we were using. I said they were an out of state bank. He was confused. He asked why we would drive out of state to get a loan. I explained that we didn't drive out of state, we rate-shopped and got the loan online. He GOT UP AND WALKED OUT of the closing. He refused to "allow" his client to sell to anyone using "the internet" for something as serious as a loan. He was sure that we were being scammed, and he didn't want any part of it. Fast forward- it all worked out and we lived in that home for many years.

My point is, ideas evolve, and accepted standards change. Education is changing - it is up to the student to a) know what they need b) be sure they are actually getting what they think they are buying.

Wow Cook. So true. That story really drives the point home. It seems that people on either coast are often a little more open to changing things, like evolving technologies. Even the older folks. My dad was awesome with his computers and what he could do. Jumped right into it w/o intimidation. But he was ALWAYS so young mentally and physically. My mom is open to, but she takes a bit longer compared with dad.

People getting stuck on geography really is funny to me.

 

[jl lin]

Nonsense, this forum is about helping people succeed and an online "degree" is a path to failure.

Note; We are not talking about online "courses" almost everybody has taken those - including me. I am taking a "blended" course now and one of my 4000 level science courses next semester is entirely online.

Secondly, of course the online courses the military offers for deployed troops are an exception - duh. Being deployed is not an "easy way out" and is not treated that way.

There are no ways to "cut" in line for medical school. If there were, then the new "cut" would develop its own line. The advice in this forum tries to inform these newcomers of how competitive the process is. Those who have not gone through it sometimes try to misinform them that it isn't that hard. It is.

The advice in this thread is pretty clearly divided into two groups. Those who haven't yet applied, and those who have.

For the love of San Pedro. We are not talking about any cheesy school or program that puts "online" degree on the degree or paperwork.
Golly! If the program meets all the same requirements as it's on campus counterpart, it's a freaking earned degree. Please stop saying things that just aren't true and open yourself up to do more neutral, unbiased research. OMG. Dude your are killing me here.


This reminds me of the days when people were afraid to touch HIV pts with gloves, a mask, gown, bubble suit. And look how long it took to change that mentality.
Probably some people still have that mentality.

 

[QofQuimica]

The short version is that you are in a forum of intensely competitive people who are fighting like hell for a seat. The likelihood of someone here helping you find a way to cut in front of them in line?..well...what do you expect? Dog eat dog.

I have to agree that this is a pretty uncharitable assessment of the forum regulars here. People can passionately disagree about various things, and that doesn't mean we're out to undercut one another. In my case, I've about had all the med school I could ever want by this point, and I'm certainly not looking to hurt any of you period, let alone for my own gain.

FWIW, I agree that a few online classes through a brick and mortar university are likely to be fine. An entire online degree is going to be tougher to sell. An unaccredited online degree....well, med school ain't for everyone.

 

[jl lin]

Although Ed has been blunt, I completely agree with him.

No one is saying "if you take a single online course you will never get in!", obviously adcoms want to know you can succeed and if 90% of your science classes are challenging and NOT online, you would likely be fine. Also if you have a few online pre-reqs followed by a graduate degree, this is again obviously different from only have online courses.

I agree what Ed has said, those of us who have filled out apps, applied, been on the interview trail, and those who have been fortunate enough to get in, will tell you to avoid online at all costs.

The medical community is a very conservative bunch. fyi. (I should mention I've been referring to MD admissions, I don't know as much about DO admissions).

No offense MCAT, but a good part of your position holds as much water as a butterfly net. Again, do more research before you are fast and furious to agree or disagree.

The coursework requirements are the coursework requirements. If they are the exact same as those schlepping to each and every class w/ azz in seat and both students do the required coursework, that is exactly the same, based on curriculum and program requirements, it's the same DAMN degree.

If you are starting from jump street, NO. The reputable online degree completion programs offered by the B&M schools aren't going to work. They are NOT going to let you in anyway.

Look at the examples I spoke of earlier with regard to becoming a RN or a NP. You can't start from zilch for either of those with an online program. Even these completion programs have some campus and clinical and presentation practice requirements for those that have already passed their boards and have worked as RNs!!!!!!!!!
You aren't gonna get in with zilch!!!! That's not what the good B&M schools designed these programs for.


OMG, now I'm getting such a H/A.

 

[StudyShy]

"Secondly, of course the online courses the military offers for deployed troops are an exception - duh. Being deployed is not an "easy way out" and is not treated that way."

I go to an accredited military online university for my masters in European history since I work 40 hours a week and attend my premed classes at a regular school. I often find that many of the other students produce strikingly well written material and are extremely dedicated to their studies. Although at first I was skeptical about online education, the academic calibre of my fellow students kicks my B&M school out of the water. This is just my experience, however. I completed my bachelor's degree at a regular 4-year university so I'm not that concerned about questions about the validity of my education. At least I can say that my general courses were the same as other hard core premeds.

My other school for my CNM degree is almost entirely online other than a couple courses before clinical rotations and clinical time itself. Specifically for nurses, this mode of teaching was started by Kitty Ernst (president of the ACNM back in the day) and popularized under the term CNEP in the early 90s. Probably the majority of certified nurse-midwives in the United States have received their education for advanced nursing degrees in this way. A lot of my professors are big shots in the nursing community (not like premeds care), but at least I get to talk to some of the smartest ladies that nursing has to offer whenever I want. Online education is not as solitary as what people think also. Lectures are Skyped and put on Eluminate. It's kind of like being in a regular classroom except that the prof is in NY while you are in MI. You can still get yelled at too for disrupting the class which I think is great fun! I've heard of med schools podcasting their lectures so I know that this should not be a new idea to anyone.

Like it or not, online education is here to stay. Hopefully, I will be one of the few who can say that they got into medical school after completing an online program. We will see. It must upset people that students can learn without setting foot anywhere near the university holy ground.

 

[jl lin]

I have to agree that this is a pretty uncharitable assessment of the forum regulars here. People can passionately disagree about various things, and that doesn't mean we're out to undercut one another. In my case, I've about had all the med school I could ever want by this point, and I'm certainly not looking to hurt any of you period, let alone for my own gain.

FWIW, I agree that a few online classes through a brick and mortar university are likely to be fine. An entire online degree is going to be tougher to sell. An unaccredited online degree....well, med school ain't for everyone.

Q, seriously, to me your two cents are worth it, but I have to say this. Please at least see my post, 42.


Meanwhile, my techy neighbors thought the IPAD wasn't all that until I showed them how much it can do, how lightweight it is--beats lap tops, zooms in and out great. People make quick decisions on things before they try them or find out more about them FOR THEMSELVES.

More and more people are using tablets like IPAD at work. And the new app's for even multi-use (multiple screens, etc) for IPAD are coming out soon. This is the wave. It beats awkward/cumbersome laptops. Typing is different, but they have accessories for that. I'm trying out the voice-activated software too.

When things improve we need to be open to them.

Man I love how I went to my FP earlier, and he just flipped info into his computer and it went directly to my pharmacy in two seconds.

It's like people that still have to fax eveything. OMG scan it to a file and upload it in email. But one of my agency job's offices (not all of them) still require that we fax stuff into them rather than uploading in email. It's like, are you freaking kiddiing me?

 

[QofQuimica]

Q, seriously, to me your two cents are worth it, but I have to say this. Please at least see my post, 42.

I did actually read that one, because it was mercifully short. 😉

All kidding aside, I was responding to the part of Cook's post that I quoted, and then giving my opinion in general, not making a response to any of your posts. Actually, your position that taking some coursework online from a brick and mortar school but taking at minimum all labs and practicums on campus isn't much different than my view. I don't think most adcoms would object to a student taking some classes online here and there through their university. Or at least, I wouldn't. It's doing an entire degree online that's a sticking point, especially if people do virtual labs (which I'm adamantly opposed to), and even moreso if the online coursework is not done through an accredited school. I think my position on this is fairly moderate.

Meanwhile, my techy neighbors thought the IPAD wasn't all that until I showed them how much it can do, how lightweight it is--beats lap tops, zooms in and out great. People make quick decisions on things before they try them or find out more about them FOR THEMSELVES.

Again, it's a familiarity thing. Not everyone is as facile with technology as you are, which your anecdote here demonstrates perfectly. I have never used an Ipad, and yes, it's a little intimidating to the uninitiated. Not because I don't think it can do great things, but I just don't know how to use one. No doubt if and when I try one, I'll like it and want my own--at this point, I love my blackberry and can't understand how I ever lived without it. That wasn't always the case, though.

This is a common issue for people who aren't techies--you should have heard all the moaning and groaning from several of the adcom members when my school moved to having us fill out interview evals online instead of on paper. Ultimately it makes the adcom meetings more efficient (and saves a ton of paper), and it was a good idea. But it takes people time to get used to it. Considering that not all of us went to college in the internet age, all I'm saying is, try to have a little empathy for those of us who are still working to catch up--which includes many adcoms. Being hostile toward people who aren't immediately embracing online learning isn't a very helpful or effective way to bring them around to your point of view. (Not saying that you specifically are doing this, jl lin--I'm talking in general.)

As med schools get more experience with evaluating applicants who have online coursework, it will become more acceptable. No doubt ten years from now, we'll all look back on this thread and wonder how anyone ever went to college without taking online courses. 🙂

 

[zenlike]

I took inorganic chem II, bio I & bio II online at a community college. I received a box filled with lab supplies every semester--including preserved specimens for dissection.

The bio I took at CC was the only bio experience I'd ever had and I managed a 14 on the bio section of the MCAT and I was accepted into my top choice school. That being said, my transcript from CC did not indicate which classes I took were online and which were B&M.

Furthermore, and on to a bit of my opinion, a stud student is a stud student no matter if he's studying in a classroom or in his basement in his fruit-of-the-looms.

 

[QofQuimica]

The one thing not being discussed here is if the student that's taking the online class is really taking the class. I know of people that offer a certain grade for online courses for certain compensation. This is probably the ADCOMS true worry.

That's a good point. Considering the lengths we had to go to in order to prevent our premed chem students from cheating on tests even while we were physically proctoring them, I can see this being an issue.

For those of you who have taken online courses, how does the school ensure that it's really you taking your tests and completing your assignments? Like, what's to stop one of you from paying someone like me to take your organic chem tests (or even the entire class) online for you besides the fact that we're ethical people here?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Even though it's okay to take some classes online from some schools (for ****s sake, even Berkeley and MIT have them), the consensus is to avoid if possible. See, that's the thing that nobody ever gets when discussing things. If you can go to Harvard, go to Harvard. If not, go to Brown. If not, go U of Wisconsin. Etc. Same thing applied to online classes. Can you avoid them? Avoid them then.

I think this sums up what most are trying to say quite succinctly. Well said.

 

[eablackwell]

My husband is currently taking online courses through a cc to earn his AA before transferring to a 4 year. There are no proctored tests for any of his classes. The only thing keeping him from cheating is his sense of honor. So I see why some schools might worry about this.