Online Glasses Vendors

[Oogilily]

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So, I searched around the forums and didn't find much on this topic. Recently I have had several people ask me about places like zennioptical.com and goggles4u.com. They offer $10 glasses with $5 shipping no matter how many glasses you ordered. I had one friend order glasses for her entire family on the cheap and they all love their glasses and can't believe they were paying more for them at optometrist's offices and are now recommending it to all of their friends.

So, I know why this is problematic on a lot of levels. Quality of optics, bad pd/oc measurements, low quality frames, breakage problems, etc. But, these people don't care about the quality of the frame or the chance of them breaking. All they know is when they put on the frame they can see just as well as with more expensive glasses. I can tell them all day about how bad the frames and lenses will be, but they disagree with me by telling me they can see just fine and if the frame breaks they can just buy another $9 pair and it is still cheaper than frames from stores.

Anyways, I guess my question is, how do I answer their questions about these online dispensaries? When people ask me about them I don't know what to say, especially if they don't care that the hardware is cheap. I figure I will probably have to deal with stuff like this for the rest of my career, so any help would be great. Thanks!

 

[Commando303]

I'm sure you'll get more-informed suggestions, but mine is, talk with people, as you indicate you've been doing, then leave it to them to make their decisions. I feel your duty, as a doctor, is to share your knowledge for the benefit of your patients, but not to be dissatisfied until you've gotten them to agree with your position.

 

[lnh]

Wow, I think my blood pressure actually went up a bit when I read your post. 🙂

The reason why they are cheap is not only because the product quality is very likely lower, but because they are "do it yourself" products. "Read our guide and choose your own lenses and coatings, take your own measurements, input your own rx (probably expired), do your own adjusting and troubleshooting!" Personally, if they like this IKEA style vision correction, then they can do whatever they want.

Unfortuantely they never do it "themselves" but instead manage to drag the rest of us into their little online optical endeavour. They will shop around at brick-and-mortar stores and waste your time to figure out which lenses and coatings they want. Then they will demand that the OD include their PD on their rx, or hassle your poor optician to take one for them. Or even better, they will stand in front of a mirror with a plastic ruler they dug out of their drawer and attempt to measure their own PD. Then if they need adjustments and repairs they will have the audacity to come back to you and see if you can fix/adjust them. All of which will put you in a fine mood to show them the door. 👍 Unfortuantely, you also have a conscience.

This is really an optician's battle, but props to you for doing what you can. If quality is not even an argument for them, then there's no point in turning blue in the face trying to convince them otherwise --especially if they are satisfied. As an OD, your focus should be on the accuracy and potential hazards to the health of their eyes.

A crucial measurement these sites don't ask for is the OC/Seg height. That's because it is impossible to take this measurement without the frame on the face. My guess is they just half the B-measurement of the frame and call it a day. This usually works okay for single vision and weak rx's. But the stronger the rx, the more prism that can be induced by a lens not centered properly. Warn them that even though they may not notice a huge vision difference initially, over time that little bit of prism could seriously mess up their vision in the long run. I had a woman once who walked around for 4 years with 3 diopters of unwanted prism. She said they "felt strong" at first, but somehow managed to get use to them. Needless to say her new rx was far more altered than was normal for 4 years.

As for the bifocal and progressive wearers, make sure they're not getting back/neck pains from continually having to hold their head at odd angles to drive, read, or use the computer. This is a problem that is easily eliminated with a good lens, and especially a good OC/seg height measurement.

Another concern is for children's lenses. I'm not sure if the online retailers follow ANSI standards for center thickness, or if they allow you to purchase just any material for kids. Even if what they purchased online was polycarbonate, it wouldn't help much if it was paper thin. I haven't seen any issues myself, but I've heard some horror stories from other opticians. Apparently they've seen some lenses that were surfaced so thin, they broke while they were being cleaned. Their finger just went right through the center! Remind the mothers how often kids get hit in the face by balls/elbows/walls/the floor, and assure them it only takes one shattered lens to lose an eye. If anything, they will get their glasses where they will, but they will not extend this precarious method towards their children's health.

Anyhow, I hope this helps a bit, and I hope others will chime in with their input. Whatever you say, say it with confidence and genuine concern. Maybe they'll listen, maybe they won't. The choice is theirs, you did what you could.

 

[JAZZEYE]

Who would wear $10 eyewear ? I can see shopping around trying to get a better price everyone wants a deal for everything... can"t blame them, especially if your into expensive designer stuff and want a couple pair and some shades.I have purchased new eyewear every other year since I was a teen-ager I couldn't walk around with that crap on my face to save a couple $$$ Optometrist can be more competitive if thats what it takes to earn someones business... But $10 bucks is a joke 👎 you get what you pay for.

 

[Oogilily]

Thanks for the input. I didn't even think of the OC/seg height or the center thickness. I was just hoping to have some new angles besides quality. I understand that they can go anywhere they want, it is their choice. I'm not trying to force their hand to buy better glasses. But I would like to inform them of what to be wary about when buying these types of glasses (especially things outside of the frame quality). I wouldn't have even asked about this, but I've had several people ask me and I didn't quite know what to say. So thanks for the input so far, very helpful.

 

[serenmoon]

So, I searched around the forums and didn't find much on this topic. Recently I have had several people ask me about places like zennioptical.com and goggles4u.com. They offer $10 glasses with $5 shipping no matter how many glasses you ordered. I had one friend order glasses for her entire family on the cheap and they all love their glasses and can't believe they were paying more for them at optometrist's offices and are now recommending it to all of their friends.

So, I know why this is problematic on a lot of levels. Quality of optics, bad pd/oc measurements, low quality frames, breakage problems, etc. But, these people don't care about the quality of the frame or the chance of them breaking. All they know is when they put on the frame they can see just as well as with more expensive glasses. I can tell them all day about how bad the frames and lenses will be, but they disagree with me by telling me they can see just fine and if the frame breaks they can just buy another $9 pair and it is still cheaper than frames from stores.

You answered your own question. It's theoretically problematic, but in practice it's fine. The frames and lenses are in no way 'bad'. The patient owns their own health information so should be able to obtain their prescription, pd/oc measurement from their optometrist, provided the optometrist is ethical.

 

[eyestrain]

You answered your own question. It's theoretically problematic, but in practice it's fine. The frames and lenses are in no way 'bad'. The patient owns their own health information so should be able to obtain their prescription, pd/oc measurement from their optometrist, provided the optometrist is ethical.

Huh? I'm unethical if I don't provide them with a measurement that I can't possibly know without seeing the frame on their face? Is it ethical for a patient to get these things online and then come whining to me when they don't work right and expect me to fix it for free?

 

[lnh]

Yes, OC height is measured by observing how the frame sits on the patient. You measure from the bottom of the frame to the pupil. Seg heights are taken in a similar fashion. This way the lab knows where to place the lens vertically so that the optical center is directly over their eyes. Can't do that with an online vendor, and the OD sure can't give that info out.

The lab uses the PD to know where to center the lens horizontally. In some states, it is considered part of the glasses rx by law. For those that do not require it, it is at the discretion of the OD. Personally, I think the PD should be taken by the optician, since it is used for fitting purposes. I always take one, even if the OD provided one. But, not a big deal either way.

I'm not bothered so much that they buy their glasses online, but that they waste my time to acquire all that info with the full intention of shopping online from the start. It's very obvious what they are doing, and I find it tacky and disrespectful. I'd rather they come straight out and ask me for my opinion/advice about buying glasses online. If they insist on trying it, then I will do my best to make sure they are fully informed. I'm not an ass. I usually help either way. I guess they're afraid I wouldn't, or feel guilty about it.

 

[lnh]

Thanks for the input. I didn't even think of the OC/seg height or the center thickness. I was just hoping to have some new angles besides quality. I understand that they can go anywhere they want, it is their choice. I'm not trying to force their hand to buy better glasses. But I would like to inform them of what to be wary about when buying these types of glasses (especially things outside of the frame quality). I wouldn't have even asked about this, but I've had several people ask me and I didn't quite know what to say. So thanks for the input so far, very helpful.

👍 You're welcome. I'm glad you care enough to ask. Maybe if it comes from you, it won't be misconstrued as a jealous sales pitch. Good luck! We opticians love ODs like you.

 

[Dogod]

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2010HSERV0015-000286.htm

Dispensing to be de-regulated, opticians allowed to refract, Rx's from outside the province can be legally filled (to accomodate Coastal Contacts' internet CL & eyewear business).
This issue is huge not just for the rest of Canada, but for the US as well.

Quote:
The Province is giving six weeks’ notice that effective May 1, 2010, changes will be made to the regulations for opticians and optometrists under the Health Professions Act, including:
· Removal of most of the restrictions that allow only opticians or optometrists, or workers supervised by them, to dispense glasses or contacts.
· Allowing prescriptions issued by medical doctors and optometrists outside of the province to be filled within B.C.
· Allowing people to order glasses or contacts online without having to give the seller a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications.
· Requiring opticians and optometrists in B.C. to include in a prescription or sight-test assessment the measurement of distance between the client’s pupils, which is required for the proper fitting of glasses.
· Requiring opticians and optometrists in B.C. to give clients, free of charge, a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications – whether or not it is requested by the client – and also to give a copy, free of charge, to a third-party eyewear seller or other person if requested by the client.

 

[pienfoo]

where does it say that the opticians are allowed to refract. is 'sight-testing' the same thing as a refraction???

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2010HSERV0015-000286.htm

Dispensing to be de-regulated, opticians allowed to refract, Rx's from outside the province can be legally filled (to accomodate Coastal Contacts' internet CL & eyewear business).
This issue is huge not just for the rest of Canada, but for the US as well.

Quote:
The Province is giving six weeks’ notice that effective May 1, 2010, changes will be made to the regulations for opticians and optometrists under the Health Professions Act, including:
· Removal of most of the restrictions that allow only opticians or optometrists, or workers supervised by them, to dispense glasses or contacts.
· Allowing prescriptions issued by medical doctors and optometrists outside of the province to be filled within B.C.
· Allowing people to order glasses or contacts online without having to give the seller a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications.
· Requiring opticians and optometrists in B.C. to include in a prescription or sight-test assessment the measurement of distance between the client’s pupils, which is required for the proper fitting of glasses.
· Requiring opticians and optometrists in B.C. to give clients, free of charge, a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications – whether or not it is requested by the client – and also to give a copy, free of charge, to a third-party eyewear seller or other person if requested by the client.

 

[pinipig523]

I'm not even in optometry and this makes my blood boil.

 

[Optogal]

where does it say that the opticians are allowed to refract. is 'sight-testing' the same thing as a refraction???

The news clipping is missing the following significant paragraph:

Also taking effect on May 1 is a change to optician sight-testing. Opticians will now be able to independently conduct sight-tests for healthy clients aged 19-65. This eliminates the extra step of having a sight-test reviewed by a medical doctor who then issues a prescription. Instead, a screening process will be put in place to ensure a client is healthy enough to be eligible for the sight-test, and is fully informed about the difference between a sight-test and an eye-health examination.

Sight-testing is optician "refraction", although my understanding is that the majority of these folks simply want to do an auto-refraction, and prescribe the result.