Only 5 LOR's?

[drslc134]

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So, just at a glance, it may seem like a lot...

but, breaking it down...most med schools require at least 3:
-2 Science faculty (that taught you in an academic setting)
-1 Non-Science faculty (that taught you in an academic setting)

if you add:
-clinical/shadowing rec
-research PI rec

that's already five!
So, what if you've done research w/ more than one professor?

Is the general rule, pick and choose who's gonna write best?

I heard more than 5 can be kind of obnoxious...is there any truth to that?

Then, if you think your two research letters might be stronger (they know you better than the shadowing director), would it ever be recommended to have both write, INSTEAD of the clinical letter?

just wondering what you guys think...thanks!

 

[bugmenot]

So, just at a glance, it may seem like a lot...

but, breaking it down...most med schools require at least 3:
-2 Science faculty (that taught you in an academic setting)
-1 Non-Science faculty (that taught you in an academic setting)

if you add:
-clinical/shadowing rec
-research PI rec

that's already five!
So, what if you've done research w/ more than one professor?

Is the general rule, pick and choose who's gonna write best?

I heard more than 5 can be kind of obnoxious...is there any truth to that?

Then, if you think your two research letters might be stronger (they know you better than the shadowing director), would it ever be recommended to have both write, INSTEAD of the clinical letter?

just wondering what you guys think...thanks!

Why not just follow their directions and submit three from your professors like they ask?

 

[crazy_cavalier]

You forgot to add: prehealth / premed advisor letter of rec.

That one is key. My premed advisor's letter was the main letter, in a sense, and when I compiled my LOR packages on Interfolio, that was the one I always listed first.

 

[kevster2001]

You forgot to add: prehealth / premed advisor letter of rec.

That one is key. My premed advisor's letter was the main letter, in a sense, and when I compiled my LOR packages on Interfolio, that was the one I always listed first.

Here's my 5
-Physics Prof
-Philosophy Prof
-Ind study prof
-Summer research PI
-Premed advisor

 

[MollyMalone]

You forgot to add: prehealth / premed advisor letter of rec.

That one is key. My premed advisor's letter was the main letter, in a sense, and when I compiled my LOR packages on Interfolio, that was the one I always listed first.

I think that's very school dependent. My premed advisor wouldn't have known me from Eve, or even from Adam. Plus she was a dingbat and I wouldn't have trusted her to spell her own name right on the letter. So no, I didn't have her write one.

Mine were (nontrad):

1 science prof
1 research PI/science prof
1 prof from my major (English)
1 longtime work supervisor (clinical)
1 physician I worked with for years

 

[ND2005]

Get them from people who KNOW you!!

Mine:

-Senior thesis advisor, for whom I also worked as a RA for a year and took a 300 level class with
-Psych professor, took 3 classes that she taught
-Honors Program director, who I knew for all 4 years; he was the prof for my very first class on the very first day of freshman year, and on my very last day of senior year
-Bio prof, who had me in lab for a year and with whom I had a lot of outside of class convos
-Physics prof....probably the weakest one, but I got an A in his class and had a number of convos outside of class with him.

 

[Em1]

I only had 4:
-Research PI/prof for 3 classes (biology)
-Another bio prof
-English prof
-Orchestra director (he qualified as non-science faculty!)

I shadowed my dad, so he couldn't exactly write me a letter.

 

[asunshine]

Here are mine (nontrad)

1 prehealth committee
1 science prof (physics!)
1 my boss (I work in an ICU)
1 attending I work with
1 attending I work with who also oversees my volunteering

it would be kind of weird to go back to my college after 3 years and find a non-sci prof to write me a letter 😉 If Organic Lab goes well this summer, I might have my very strict E. European prof (who happens to love me) write me one, too. Also, I'm considering applying DO, so I'll have to shadow this summer and have him/her write me a LOR.

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

So, just at a glance, it may seem like a lot...

but, breaking it down...most med schools require at least 3:
-2 Science faculty (that taught you in an academic setting)
-1 Non-Science faculty (that taught you in an academic setting)

if you add:
-clinical/shadowing rec
-research PI rec

that's already five!
So, what if you've done research w/ more than one professor?

Is the general rule, pick and choose who's gonna write best?

I heard more than 5 can be kind of obnoxious...is there any truth to that?

Then, if you think your two research letters might be stronger (they know you better than the shadowing director), would it ever be recommended to have both write, INSTEAD of the clinical letter?

just wondering what you guys think...thanks!

Some med schools say no more than six. Just make sure they are notable and not from your next door neighbor because you house sit for him/her.

 

[thegymbum]

I'd focus on who seems to really know you as a person, who has seen you prove that you truly are responsible and committed, and who seems the most sincere about wanting to write a letter for ya. Depth really matters 😉

 

[in4mant]

I'd focus on who seems to really know you as a person, who has seen you prove that you truly are responsible and committed, and who seems the most sincere about wanting to write a letter for ya. Depth really matters 😉

do a lot of schools want a letter from a physician or volunteering-related person? i.e. healthcare-related

mine so far:
-a research supervisor (professor)
-orgo professor
-gen chem professor
-non-science professor

 

[chilon85]

I think that's very school dependent. My premed advisor wouldn't have known me from Eve, or even from Adam. Plus she was a dingbat and I wouldn't have trusted her to spell her own name right on the letter. So no, I didn't have her write one.

Mine were (nontrad):

1 science prof
1 research PI/science prof
1 prof from my major (English)
1 longtime work supervisor (clinical)
1 physician I worked with for years

I completely agree with you. My premed advisor is really stuck up and has that whole I don't have time for anyone attitude so I am not having him write me one either.

 

[SeminoleFan3]

I graduated a couple of years ago. I picked up my science prereqs at a CC, and got to know my profs very well. I currently have only 3 LORs (all science profs that taught my labs & lectures). I feel it would be really weird to go back to someone who taught my about 3 years ago. However, I majored in Religion. Is it going to be a problem that I only have 3 LORs and not one from a non-science prof?

 

[in4mant]

I graduated a couple of years ago. I picked up my science prereqs at a CC, and got to know my profs very well. I currently have only 3 LORs (all science profs that taught my labs & lectures). I feel it would be really weird to go back to someone who taught my about 3 years ago. However, I majored in Religion. Is it going to be a problem that I only have 3 LORs and not one from a non-science prof?

could somebody answer my question

is a letter from a healthcare-related professional a MUST?

 

[Duchess742]

ok wtf?? i swear i've never heard of needing FIVE recs! i thought u were supp to have 3.

 

[somewhere2010]

your pre-health office will likely suggest the number of letters you should have...i had 4 + pre-med committee cover letter:

-current boss at NIH
-PI in social science/public health lab (academic year)
-PI in neuroscience lab (summer)
-piano teacher who knew me reeeeeally well

my professors knew me least well (save my piano teacher), so i didn't have them write any letters!

 

[63768]

you are supposed to have only 3 but some people have done substantial research or have taken years off between undergrad and med school. in these cases, an extra LOR or two is required.

-biolab prof (for whom i also TAed)
-current sports medicine PI
-ex-premed advisor that i got to know well
-community service director for organization that i direct moveo f my time to

 

[joueaupluie]

you are supposed to have only 3 but some people have done substantial research or have taken years off between undergrad and med school. in these cases, an extra LOR or two is required.

How do we find out if an extra LOR is required (MSAR)? I'm 24, graduated at 22...does this qualify? If so would the extra LOR need to come from a supervisor from something I've done in the past couple of years (volunteer supervisor or boss)?

Thanks for the help!

 

[EddieIndy]

I don't get why is the LOR from the "prehealth advisor" is so important? I don't even have one and I don't feel like I need one. He/She is going to repeat whatever I already know from MSAR...

 

[browniegirl86]

I graduated a couple of years ago. I picked up my science prereqs at a CC, and got to know my profs very well. I currently have only 3 LORs (all science profs that taught my labs & lectures). I feel it would be really weird to go back to someone who taught my about 3 years ago. However, I majored in Religion. Is it going to be a problem that I only have 3 LORs and not one from a non-science prof?

No. I had 3 LORs, all from profs (one was non-science but it was because she knew me better than most of my science profs). Don't sweat it.

 

[letitgo]

How important are LORs in general? I'm painfully shy and have never tried to talk to any of my professors outside the classroom, but I've done well in all my classes. I guess just getting an A isn't good enough for a rec letter? I'm a non-trad, so could I get letters from work supervisors or someone like that? I already have to have one from my undergrad institution (a science prof, who wrote one but has never met me) and a committee letter. I think I'm doomed.

 

[EddieIndy]

How important are LORs in general? I'm painfully shy and have never tried to talk to any of my professors outside the classroom, but I've done well in all my classes. I guess just getting an A isn't good enough for a rec letter? I'm a non-trad, so could I get letters from work supervisors or someone like that? I already have to have one from my undergrad institution (a science prof, who wrote one but has never met me) and a committee letter. I think I'm doomed.

Why are you doomed? You have 3 LORs, one from your job, one from your prof, and one committee letter. That's really enough...

 

[browniegirl86]

could somebody answer my question

is a letter from a healthcare-related professional a MUST?

Absolutely not, unless the school specifically recommends it. It's icing on the cake. I didn't have one and it apparently didn't matter.

 

[Em1]

I don't get why is the LOR from the "prehealth advisor" is so important? I don't even have one and I don't feel like I need one. He/She is going to repeat whatever I already know from MSAR...

If you don't have a pre-med/health advisor, that's fine, you'll just have to tell schools you don't have one (some require this letter if it's possible)

Schools like the pre-med letters b/c the pre-med advisor is better able to judge the qualifications of an applicant in relation to all other applicants from that school.

 

[EddieIndy]

If you don't have a pre-med/health advisor, that's fine, you'll just have to tell schools you don't have one (some require this letter if it's possible)

Schools like the pre-med letters b/c the pre-med advisor is better able to judge the qualifications of an applicant in relation to all other applicants from that school.

That's a good point. Well, I have two more undergrad years left, might as well get an advisor 🙂

 

[SeminoleFan3]

No. I had 3 LORs, all from profs (one was non-science but it was because she knew me better than most of my science profs). Don't sweat it.

Thanks

 

[SirTony76]

Do MSTP applicants need more than the normal 3?

TP

 

[in4mant]

Absolutely not, unless the school specifically recommends it. It's icing on the cake. I didn't have one and it apparently didn't matter.

you just made my day...
well, sort of.
b/c im not gonna have to run around in june trying to find that a health care professional to write me a letter

 

[letitgo]

I mean none of my LORs are good...none of these professors/supervisors know me well at all. I'm the quiet kid that gets the job done but sits in the back of the room and blends into the walls. Aren't lukewarm LORs (ie. form letters) going to hurt me?

 

[thegymbum]

could somebody answer my question

is a letter from a healthcare-related professional a MUST?

It would be helpful, but not necessarily a "must". Having one from a health related professional would show that, not only are you responsible, hard working, trustworthy, etc., but also that you've demonstrated those qualities in the field you're trying to get into... which they would love to know. But if it's not really an option, try not to let it worry you 🙂 It's not an ultimatum or anything...

 

[TCIrish03]

I did my non-premed undergrad work at Notre Dame, and my Psot-bacc at Pitt. Thus, I didn't use ND's prehealth office and used Pitt's instead. Pitt assembles 5 letters, creates a profile for you similar to AMCAS, has a committe rank your strength and mails all that out to your schools as a composite. So my 5 letters were:

1.)Undergrad Director of Psychology Dept. at ND (who I had classes with and know personally)
2.)GenChem professor at Pitt
3.) Volunteer Director at Hospital where I volunteered
4.) My superviros at the Cardiac Cath lab where I volunteered
5.) the PI in the research lab where I work

If you look at the secondaries, most medical schools say that a composite like above is all you need. Basically, if you have a prehealth committee who does this, use it as opposed to doing it all yourself.

 

[PBandJ]

Do MSTP applicants need more than the normal 3?

TP

As an MSTP applicant, you should have at least the minimum 3 LORs, but you may want more to include LORs from your research advisor(s). I sent 6 letters to my pre-health committee at Boston University that compiles the letters into a composite letter (similar to TCIrish03's committee). I asked 6 people figuring that i would definitely get 5, but I was very fortunate that all 6 submitted letters no problem. here are my letters:

1) One of 2 PIs at my current lab (MD, vice president of academic medicine)
2) Other of 2 PIs at my current lab (ScD, epidemiologist)
3) Chief of Medicine/PI from 3 summers of UPMC summer research
4) Research advisor from 3 summers of UPMC summer research (PhD, Professor)
5) Physics professor at BU
6) Chairman of Biomedical Engineering Department at BU (took classes with him, knew him very well)

 

[j-med]

1) Science
2) Science research
3) Humanities
4) Math
5) Health-related internship
6) Clinical Shadowing
+) Cover (composite) letter by one of the premed committee member
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Which one should I take out if I need to take out one?

 

[j-med]

P.S.
Both #5 and 6 I want to keep cos they know me the best.
#4 Math- also knows me quite well.
#3 Humanities- i think i need to keep this especially if a LOR from humanities is needed
#2 Biophysics project- knows me okay, but he showed me the letter, and it described quite well what i did for the research, and he said there that he gives me "the highest recommendations"...
#1 Physics course, an advanced course that's regarded to be a tough one by my peers, and the professor said i did excellent work there, and he seems to like what i do outside of class too

My composite letter writer /advisor wants me to send in just 5, but now thinking about it... i really cannot choose...So now I think I'd like to either call or write my advisor to explain to him my rationale... do you think this would be wise or not and why?
i don't want to in any way annoy him cos especially he's the one writing the cover/composite letter... but i don't know what should i say to him..

any suggestions please?

 

[gregMD]

P.S.
Both #5 and 6 I want to keep cos they know me the best.
#4 Math- also knows me quite well.
#3 Humanities- i think i need to keep this especially if a LOR from humanities is needed
#2 Biophysics project- knows me okay, but he showed me the letter, and it described quite well what i did for the research, and he said there that he gives me "the highest recommendations"...
#1 Physics course, an advanced course that's regarded to be a tough one by my peers, and the professor said i did excellent work there, and he seems to like what i do outside of class too

I want to keep all of them... but my major's advisor, who's writing me the composite letter, asks me to just give him 5 letters... i guess he thinks that he can't include everything in his 2 page cover /composite letter (our conversation was like,
"so, I'll be sending you the remaining two letter within this next month or so."
"i think you should just pick one that knows you the best..."
"but i think both of them knows me well and i already asked them...(and went on to explain why #5 and 6 knows me well)."
"but you know it's just a 2 page letter... [...].. [smiles]. I will write you a strong letter!..."
"Thanks prof.... [...] maybe i'll send you all and you can just choose from those? [....] (...)... okay, I guess I'll try my best in narrowing them down!."

but now thinking about it... i really cannot choose... and the remaining two that are left are #5 and #6 and I really WANT to send them in anyways... So now I think I will either call or write my advisor to explain to him my rationale... do you think this would be wise or not and why?

i think i want to be very careful in this, i don't want to in any way annoy him cos especially he's the one writing the cover/composite letter... but i don't know what should i say to him..

any suggestions please?

i have a headache after reading this post.

 

[gregMD]

It drives me INSANE when applicants send in more than 3 letters of reference. I know several people on our ADCOM that read the frist three in the package (i reluctantly read them all as i dont want to miss anything...), and ignore the rest.

edit: [i should clarify that our university requests only 3 letters of reference]

 

[drslc134]

It drives me INSANE when applicants send in more than 3 letters of reference. I know several people on our ADCOM that read the frist three in the package (i reluctantly read them all as i dont want to miss anything...), and ignore the rest.

edit: [i should clarify that our university requests only 3 letters of reference]

does that mean you just want professors from classes and nothing else? i feel like research, if it was from someone who didn't teach classes could be important, and someone who can say something about you interacting w/ people in the healthcare setting could be important, too, no?

 

[j-med]

-

 

[SirTony76]

As an MSTP applicant, you should have at least the minimum 3 LORs, but you may want more to include LORs from your research advisor(s). I sent 6 letters to my pre-health committee at Boston University that compiles the letters into a composite letter (similar to TCIrish03's committee). I asked 6 people figuring that i would definitely get 5, but I was very fortunate that all 6 submitted letters no problem. here are my letters:

1) One of 2 PIs at my current lab (MD, vice president of academic medicine)
2) Other of 2 PIs at my current lab (ScD, epidemiologist)
3) Chief of Medicine/PI from 3 summers of UPMC summer research
4) Research advisor from 3 summers of UPMC summer research (PhD, Professor)
5) Physics professor at BU
6) Chairman of Biomedical Engineering Department at BU (took classes with him, knew him very well)

So is a letter from a non-science professor optional with MSTP applicants?

I was thinking of getting my PI to write me one, my boss (I work in the tutoring office), my Biomedical Engineering Department chair (I know her, she is real nice-thus far I've taken 1 class from her) and an MD I have known real well for a few years. Do you think I should get some different people?

TP

 

[PBandJ]

So is a letter from a non-science professor optional with MSTP applicants?

I was thinking of getting my PI to write me one, my boss (I work in the tutoring office), my Biomedical Engineering Department chair (I know her, she is real nice-thus far I've taken 1 class from her) and an MD I have known real well for a few years. Do you think I should get some different people?

TP

I think it depends on the individual school, to be honest. Many schools are not very specific about requirements (just that you should have 3 letters). Some other schools require at least one science professor recommendation, one non-science professor, etc. So, my suggestion is to take a look at the individual requirements for schools to which you're planning on applying.

 

[gregMD]

does that mean you just want professors from classes and nothing else? i feel like research, if it was from someone who didn't teach classes could be important, and someone who can say something about you interacting w/ people in the healthcare setting could be important, too, no?

As an example - we had one applicant this year submit letters from one of her professors, the PI (who was also a MD) from the lab she worked in, and a police officer who has known her for a long time.

There's no sense in submitting 3 letters from science professors. One is sufficient - get letters from people in all walks from life. If you know a lawyer or judge (or a cop) that can vouch for your character, than thats a great contrast. Profs in your science courses that can vouch for your scientific attributes are good, and a physician or researcher you've worked with are also good sources of letters.

Another example - a guy submitted 5 letters to us (we request 3) and 3 were from science profs, one was from a lab he worked in, and the other was from a MD he shadowed... i was way more impressed with the letter from the police officer - it was different, and provided a different insight into the background of the candidate.

 

[j-med]

hey gregMD,
how does composite letters work for your school then?
cos on the form at our school requesting for LOR there were 6 blanks for 6 different people, and I'm guessing they still may attach all the letters into the packet, then does that not give you headache then? cos you can just choose to read the composite letter? (but then you said you'll still want to read the rest "not wanting to miss anything"..)

 

[lilnoelle]

I had a committee letter from the premed department at my school. I was lucky enough that my profs remembered me well to give me a good recommendation. (I've been out of school for three years)
I also had a good recommendation letter from a ophthalmologist I know well.
My third one was from a long time family friend. He has known me 23 of my 25 years. He also is a minister and is very involved in other aspects of the community.
The schools that I applied to required the committee letter and two non-school related letters.

 

[SpinEcho13]

Do you really need a non-science letter? I am a Biomedical Engineering major and have only taken 5 classes that are outside of engineering/science (2 english, 1 history, 2 psych). With this extremely small subset, I never hit it off with any of the professors and therefore if I asked for a letter I'm sure it would be run of the mill.

What I have so far:
2 science profs (1 physiology, 1 BME)
2 PI's I did research for
2 physicians (1 i shadowed and will do research for this summer, 1 who has acted as my mentor during undergrad)

Is this sufficient?
Anyone know of schools with a hard and fast requirement for a non-science prof? Do they mean non-science like BCPM or humanities, or what.

 

[gregMD]

hey gregMD,
how does composite letters work for your school then?
cos on the form at our school requesting for LOR there were 6 blanks for 6 different people, and I'm guessing they still may attach all the letters into the packet, then does that not give you headache then? cos you can just choose to read the composite letter? (but then you said you'll still want to read the rest "not wanting to miss anything"..)

I think this will vary from school to school. If a pre-health committee send us a composite letter, they typically don't send us the original LORs. For example, we would get a composite letter, a letter from a physician and a letter from a sports coach, or english prof. Because we only require 3 letters of reference, we only get composite letters half of the time - and I usually like to get the reference letter directly from the professor, PI, MD etc. Sometimes the pre-health committees can be great for students, the other half of the time they can be vague and not that great.

 

[j-med]

For example, we would get a composite letter, a letter from a physician and a letter from a sports coach, or english prof. Because we only require 3 letters of reference, we only get composite letters half of the time - and I usually like to get the reference letter directly from the professor, PI, MD etc.

hmm... i see. thanks, good to know.

 

[PBandJ]

at my U, the pre-health committee will *only* submit the actual letters from the PI, profssor, etc. if you provide them with a statement in writing that the school to which you're applying requires the actual letters in addition to a committee letter. they're pretty strict about it. i think it's bogus, but i didn't want to go without the committee letter and have to explain why i didn't have it later.