Only in Chicago. A stupid mistake?

[Kikaku21]

I am considering applying ONLY in Chicago, which leaves Loyola, Rush, NU, Chicago, UIC, and Rosalind.

I feel like NU and Chicago are reaches, and the rest are relative safety schools. Considering I am an Illinois resident, I feel like I am likely to get in to UIC--given that I get in anywhere.

My stats are GPA - 3.69, MCAT - 35.

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

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[modelslashactor]

you probably will get into at least one of them, but why not add a couple nearby for good measure? MCW? SLU? possibly Midwestern (DO)?

your stats are more than good enough to get into all but UC and NU (provided you volunteered etc), but unless you really really need to be in the city, applying to less than 10 is kinda risky.

 

[Phoenix.]

What about your ECs (volunteering, clinical, etc.)?

Sure, NU and Chicago are always crapshoots. And I know qualified people who didn't even get interviews at Loyola, but they tended to not have much community service on their app. Oddly enough, I've heard of people who get into Loyola with good stats who get rejected by Rush and UIC. These are all IL residents. It all seems a crapshoot to me. If I were you I might add a couple other schools to your list just in case. If you want to stay in the area, perhaps Univ of Wisconsin, MCW, etc. Your call. A lot of this probably depends on if you apply early, and what the other aspects of your app look like. Good luck.

 

[Jccripe]

I would say you will def get into Rosalind adn UIC, prob get into Loyola and Rush, and Maybe get into UofC and NU

 

[notdeadyet]

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

Risky. Search for the UIC thread that's active right now. There have been a few people with your stats and Illinois residency that haven't been accepted.

You'll probably be accepted somewhere in Chicago, but would you rather apply a second time or leave the state?

 

[Kikaku21]

What about your ECs (volunteering, clinical, etc.)?

Sure, NU and Chicago are always crapshoots. And I know qualified people who didn't even get interviews at Loyola, but they tended to not have much community service on their app. Oddly enough, I've heard of people who get into Loyola with good stats who get rejected by Rush and UIC. These are all IL residents. It all seems a crapshoot to me. If I were you I might add a couple other schools to your list just in case. If you want to stay in the area, perhaps Univ of Wisconsin, MCW, etc. Your call. A lot of this probably depends on if you apply early, and what the other aspects of your app look like. Good luck.

I have 2 good clinical ECs, and some good community service. I have some research from back in undergrad, but it was not entirely academic. (I majored in engineering, worked for an R&D lab 2 summers.)

I figured U of Wisc and MCW were probably not friendly to OOS apps. I'll have to review the MSAR.

Thanks for all of the responses!

 

[postbacker]

I think it is an OK plan given your stats and given the range of admissions difficulty for the Chicago schools. Going in you acknowledge that UofC and NW are longshots for almost everyone, so you are really banking on 4 schools for at least one admission...risky, but I think it will work out for you.

Right now I am looking at a list of 30 potential schools, and it is giving me a headache. Wish I had the confidence (or is it temerity?) to apply to just 5 schools...good luck.

 

[pennybridge]

I am considering applying ONLY in Chicago, which leaves Loyola, Rush, NU, Chicago, UIC, and Rosalind.

I feel like NU and Chicago are reaches, and the rest are relative safety schools. Considering I am an Illinois resident, I feel like I am likely to get in to UIC--given that I get in anywhere.

My stats are GPA - 3.69, MCAT - 35.

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

do it. If you have a job guaranteed for the next year and possibly another, there's no reason not to. Second time applicants are extremely common and its not even considered a bad thing anymore.

This is what I wish I did this past year, only apply to CA schools, if it didn't work out, apply again next year with out of state options. luckily I get to stay in CA anyway, but still, I would be a thousand dollars richer and no worse for wear.

If you can stand going through the process and not getting in, then doing it again, if that year of waiting is worth staying in Chicago then by all means do it

everyone will tell you its all about what makes you happy.

 

[modelslashactor]

regarding the Wisconsin schools, Madison is probably not a good bet because they only like take 20 OOSers or something ridiculous. Iowa would be a better bet. MCW is kind to midwesterners, but last year there was a rumor they have a GPA cutoff of 3.7 for OOSers. It might be good to look into that before applying, unfortunately I don't know if that rumor was real or not.

honestly you'll probably get into at least one of the Chi schools, I'm just a wuss and cant imagine applying to only 6 schools. in any case!

 

[Kikaku21]

regarding the Wisconsin schools, Madison is probably not a good bet because they only like take 20 OOSers or something ridiculous. Iowa would be a better bet. MCW is kind to midwesterners, but last year there was a rumor they have a GPA cutoff of 3.7 for OOSers. It might be good to look into that before applying, unfortunately I don't know if that rumor was real or not.

honestly you'll probably get into at least one of the Chi schools, I'm just a wuss and cant imagine applying to only 6 schools. in any case!

Yeah... This is the problem I am having. I am all about trying to minimize the margin of error. Thats the best we can hope for. But I question how much adding these out of state schools really adds to my chances of getting in.

If I don't stand a shot at them, it doesn't help to add them. I suppose there is always Drexel and George Washington and so forth.. They are friendly to OOS, right?

 

[Beau Geste]

Did you think about SIU also? The first year is in Carbondale but the last 3 are in Springfield, which is 2.5 hours from Chicago.

 

[Kikaku21]

Did you think about SIU also? The first year is in Carbondale but the last 3 are in Springfield, which is 2.5 hours from Chicago.

I understand that SIU is not friendly to Chicagoans. Perhaps I have been misled. Any idea?

Good luck with your MCAT!

 

[brats800]

for what it's worth, when i applied i only applied to UW, MCW, and the chicago schools. didn't finish my secondaries at schools after i got in at MCW (my #3 school) and finally got into Loyola (#1 school). its ok to apply local if that's where you want to be, but it is always a crapshoot. cross your fingers.

 

[Beau Geste]

I understand that SIU is not friendly to Chicagoans. Perhaps I have been misled. Any idea?

Good luck with your MCAT!

They traditionally prefer student from underserved Illinois areas, but there are Chicagoans that get in every year.

I think it would be worth it to apply at least

 

[postbacker]

for what it's worth, when i applied i only applied to UW, MCW, and the chicago schools. didn't finish my secondaries at schools after i got in at MCW (my #3 school) and finally got into Loyola (#1 school). its ok to apply local if that's where you want to be, but it is always a crapshoot. cross your fingers.

Brats:

Not trying to hijack the thread, but...how has Loyola worked out for you? Have you formed any further impressions of the other Chicago schools, particularly Rosalind and Rush? Can one live close enough to Loyola to walk to school (decent neighborhood, feel safe, etc)? Or does one really need a car?

Thanks...

 

[Jonesie]

I am considering applying ONLY in Chicago, which leaves Loyola, Rush, NU, Chicago, UIC, and Rosalind.

I feel like NU and Chicago are reaches, and the rest are relative safety schools. Considering I am an Illinois resident, I feel like I am likely to get in to UIC--given that I get in anywhere.

My stats are GPA - 3.69, MCAT - 35.

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

I'd up the number to at least 10, but maybe that's just me. Why not just toss in four more schools as a safety net? It all depends on whether you'd be okay with doing going through the process a second time. For me, staying in IL was preferable, but I was willing to sacrifice IL residency for a spot in med school if necessary. There are other schools in the midwest (MCW, Iowa, SLU, to name a few) in driving range that are also good matches with your stats.

 

[pjl2505]

don't expect anything. i'm an Illinois resident, didn't get an interview at Rush, Loyola, or UC, got waitlisted at NU, and didn't apply to RF or UIC.

 

[Flopotomist]

Brats:

Not trying to hijack the thread, but...how has Loyola worked out for you? Have you formed any further impressions of the other Chicago schools, particularly Rosalind and Rush? Can one live close enough to Loyola to walk to school (decent neighborhood, feel safe, etc)? Or does one really need a car?

Thanks...

Loyola MS1 here so I will take a stab at a few of these questions.

1. Impressions of other schools - don't really know truthfully, and I would take information with a grain of salt from people giving info about a school they don't actually attend. I think all the Chicago area schools are going to give you a fine education.

2. You need a car at Loyola truthfully. There are a few that don't have one, but you can't really live within close walking distance (remember, winter here is super cold, so you don't want to walk too far in December). PLUS there are a number of extra-curricular activities (eg student run free health clinic, off site rotations etc.) that you need to get to.

3. There is a great thread in allo with answers to a lot of questions about Loyola - consider checking it out. There are a number of current students there that check the forums regularly.

4. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

 

[BeanerMD]

I've gotta throw my two cents in here- I did exactly what you're proposing the first time I applied to schools (not with dissimilar stats at the time, either). Guess how many schools I got into? That's right- zero. I had a mortgage, family, husband, love for my state and every intention of practicing in IL....I thought these were all justifiable reasons for not branching out and "applying broadly". After sitting on some waitlists and inevitably not being shown any love by my state's schools, I did branch out. Gotta love those Michiganites for giving me a true shot

 

[Kikaku21]

I've gotta throw my two cents in here- I did exactly what you're proposing the first time I applied to schools (not with dissimilar stats at the time, either). Guess how many schools I got into? That's right- zero. I had a mortgage, family, husband, love for my state and every intention of practicing in IL....I thought these were all justifiable reasons for not branching out and "applying broadly". After sitting on some waitlists and inevitably not being shown any love by my state's schools, I did branch out. Gotta love those Michiganites for giving me a true shot

Wow. Did you apply to all the IL schools?

Maybe I could add Michigan State. Are they usually OOS friendly?

 

[brats800]

i agree with flop's thoughts about loyola. while you could walk (or more likely bike) while the weather is nice, you'll want access to a vehicle for the cold parts of the year and for the numerous extracurricular activities available. anyway, loyola has been great to me. it is hard and stressful at times, but it IS medical school and that just comes with the territory. i'd say you'd probably get a great education at any of the chicago schools...we all have to pass the same board exams so they can't be too far different, right? mentioning the differences, figure out what type of learning you would prefer. loyola has a good mix of classroom and small group / independent learning...so if you have your heart set on sitting in lectures from 8am-5pm, loyola won't be your best option. and like flop said, check the loyola class of 2011 thread (or previous year's threads, too) in the allo forum...and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask in threads or thru PM. good luck with all the decisions!

 

[Ashers]

regarding the Wisconsin schools, Madison is probably not a good bet because they only like take 20 OOSers or something ridiculous. Iowa would be a better bet. MCW is kind to midwesterners, but last year there was a rumor they have a GPA cutoff of 3.7 for OOSers. It might be good to look into that before applying, unfortunately I don't know if that rumor was real or not.

honestly you'll probably get into at least one of the Chi schools, I'm just a wuss and cant imagine applying to only 6 schools. in any case!

I doubt MCW's cut off is that high. I think that's a complete rumor.

MCW's class is half instate and half out. Lots of people from CA and UT and the midwest. There are a few from HI.

 

[flaquita69us]

I've gotta throw my two cents in here- I did exactly what you're proposing the first time I applied to schools (not with dissimilar stats at the time, either). Guess how many schools I got into? That's right- zero. I had a mortgage, family, husband, love for my state and every intention of practicing in IL....I thought these were all justifiable reasons for not branching out and "applying broadly". After sitting on some waitlists and inevitably not being shown any love by my state's schools, I did branch out. Gotta love those Michiganites for giving me a true shot

I also did exactly what you are proposing, plus UMich and UWisc. I got very lucky and will be going to NU this fall, but I have to agree with everyone who says to branch out. There were a few times were I was very worried that I wouldn't be going to medical school next year. St. Louis isn't really that far, especially if you have a car. Also remember that UIC actually has locations in four different cities, so even if you get in there, you aren't guaranteed a spot in Chicago. Good luck.

 

[45408]

your stats are more than good enough to get into all but UC and NU (provided you volunteered etc), but unless you really really need to be in the city, applying to less than 10 is kinda risky.

I don't see why he *couldn't* get into Northwestern. I made it to their waitlist with a 3.8/35. The OP just has a marginally lower GPA.

Since you're so close, you might as well apply to UWisc and MCW. You've got a good chance at MCW (that's where I am), and less so at UWisc. I got into UWisc, but I'm a Wisconsin resident.

APPLY EARLY!

That could make or break you, especially at MCW.

 

[hlchess]

This year I applied to all the Chicago Schools except for Rosalind Franklin, and I only got 2 interviews. Rush, Loyola, and Northwestern all rejected me. I declined the UIC interview, and I'm still waiting to hear from Pritzker.

Since it's such a crapshoot, I would be careful and apply to some more schools.

 

[Kikaku21]

This year I applied to all the Chicago Schools except for Rosalind Franklin, and I only got 2 interviews. Rush, Loyola, and Northwestern all rejected me. I declined the UIC interview, and I'm still waiting to hear from Pritzker.

Since it's such a crapshoot, I would be careful and apply to some more schools.

How were your stats, if you don't mind me asking.....

 

[modelslashactor]

im not saying he wouldnt get in, just that it's no guarantee. he's got a good shot, just not as good as at the others, which pretty much applies to everyone.

 

[Kikaku21]

im not saying he wouldnt get in, just that it's no guarantee. he's got a good shot, just not as good as at the others, which pretty much applies to everyone.

Yeah... I have friends at UofC and NU with better scores that did not get in to either. Even with GREAT stats, its still a gamble.

 

[hlchess]

My stats: http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=5995

 

[postbacker]

My stats: http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=5995

Your lack of success (or just bad luck?) has me scratching my head...did you get any feedback from your interviews as to why you weren't accepted at more schools? Could it have been your young age? Or is there a maturity issue here? How did your interviews go? Any bad LORs in the stack? Numbers-wise, you should have had much more success...

In particular, your numbers alone should have gotten you more interviews...that is a shocking number of post-secondary rejections for your profile...

Sorry to pry, but if the rest of us can learn something from your experience...

 

[Kikaku21]

Your lack of success (or just bad luck?) has me scratching my head...did you get any feedback from your interviews as to why you weren't accepted at more schools? Could it have been your young age? Or is there a maturity issue here? How did your interviews go? Any bad LORs in the stack? Numbers-wise, you should have had much more success...

In particular, your numbers alone should have gotten you more interviews...that is a shocking number of post-secondary rejections for your profile...

Sorry to pry, but if the rest of us can learn something from your experience...

Yes. Please tell us. I really hate to think its totally random.

 

[hlchess]

Your lack of success (or just bad luck?) has me scratching my head...did you get any feedback from your interviews as to why you weren't accepted at more schools? Could it have been your young age? Or is there a maturity issue here? How did your interviews go? Any bad LORs in the stack? Numbers-wise, you should have had much more success...

In particular, your numbers alone should have gotten you more interviews...that is a shocking number of post-secondary rejections for your profile...

Sorry to pry, but if the rest of us can learn something from your experience...

I'm really not sure. I'm definitely not a great interviewer, but I thought I did ok at most of my interviews. I think it might be because there really wasn't anything outstanding in my application except for my MCAT score. I have some research and volunteering, but nothing that really stands out.

I think I'll try to contact the schools where I got rejected and see if they tell me anything.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

I've gotta throw my two cents in here- I did exactly what you're proposing the first time I applied to schools (not with dissimilar stats at the time, either). Guess how many schools I got into? That's right- zero. I had a mortgage, family, husband, love for my state and every intention of practicing in IL....I thought these were all justifiable reasons for not branching out and "applying broadly". After sitting on some waitlists and inevitably not being shown any love by my state's schools, I did branch out. Gotta love those Michiganites for giving me a true shot

I've gotta agree with beaner. Nothing is certain in this process. I would up the list to at least 10 schools (if you have an MSAR, you should be able to find out which schools are friendly to OOSers), probably 15 to be on the safe side.

I think you'll get in somewhere in Chicago, but no one can be certain.

Best of luck,
-Dr. P.

 

[CTtarheel]

I am considering applying ONLY in Chicago, which leaves Loyola, Rush, NU, Chicago, UIC, and Rosalind.

I feel like NU and Chicago are reaches, and the rest are relative safety schools. Considering I am an Illinois resident, I feel like I am likely to get in to UIC--given that I get in anywhere.

My stats are GPA - 3.69, MCAT - 35.

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

You have solid numbers, I'd make sure to apply to ALL the IL state schools and probably the Wisconsin and Michigan state schools as well. Those are your best chances for an acceptance.

 

[uhohspaghettio]

I'm really not sure. I'm definitely not a great interviewer, but I thought I did ok at most of my interviews. I think it might be because there really wasn't anything outstanding in my application except for my MCAT score. I have some research and volunteering, but nothing that really stands out.

I think I'll try to contact the schools where I got rejected and see if they tell me anything.

I hope it wasn't because you are an east-asian male

u think?

 

[jbrice1639]

I am considering applying ONLY in Chicago, which leaves Loyola, Rush, NU, Chicago, UIC, and Rosalind.

I feel like NU and Chicago are reaches, and the rest are relative safety schools. Considering I am an Illinois resident, I feel like I am likely to get in to UIC--given that I get in anywhere.

My stats are GPA - 3.69, MCAT - 35.

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

for what it's worth, when i applied, i applied widely "just in case" with no real intention of going anywhere other than chicago. i ended up only getting interviews/acceptances in chicago and that's where i ended up. so, if i could do it all over again, i'd save the extra money and not bother applying anywhere else, and i'm sure things would have turned out the same. if you really don't want to go anywhere else, then don't apply anywhere else.

and, i agree with your sentiments on uic...with your stats, that should be almost a guarantee (as much as there can be any guarantees in this process)

 

[chhsu]

Just to affirm the med school process is a crapshoot - my wife applied to all the Chicago programs with solid scores/grades and as an IL state resident and got interviews to all Chicago programs and SIU EXCEPT UIC. She even got an interview at U Minnesota as an out of state resident. UIC was the only program that didn't even offer an interview. We don't even know why. As a result, we had to commute 2 hours each weekend for 4 years to see each other as she went to Rush and I went to Urbana/Champaign's med school.

My suggestion is to apply to all Chicago programs plus SIU, St. Louis University, Washington University and MCW if you're trying to stay in the Midwest. Ten schools with your solid scores should cover your bases, but it's best to try to spread as wide as your comfort level. Everyone knows how rigorous getting into medical school can be and how much chance plays a big part as well. Good luck to you!

 

[Law2Doc]

I am considering applying ONLY in Chicago, which leaves Loyola, Rush, NU, Chicago, UIC, and Rosalind.

I feel like NU and Chicago are reaches, and the rest are relative safety schools. Considering I am an Illinois resident, I feel like I am likely to get in to UIC--given that I get in anywhere.

My stats are GPA - 3.69, MCAT - 35.

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

A few extra apps would be a good idea. You never know if an interview or two will go sour, or if places just feel you aren't a "good fit". It's not all about the numbers. Many people with good stats who apply have 6+ rejections (often at schools they don't expect), which is why the many people don't apply to so few.

 

[nosugrefneb]

I'll agree with several others in recommending you apply to other places that are relatively nearby Chicago (MCW, IU, even Michigan). You should never, ever assume you'll get into safety schools, even if there are four of them. I'm at UChicago but was rejected from all Chicago schools except Finch (and only otherwise interviewed at Rush). It was truly mind-boggling.

 

[Kikaku21]

Thank you all for your replies. I never expected so many.

My decision is to add a few schools. Looks like the opinions are about 50/50, so I'll go conservatively.

The conversation is fruitful-- so by all means keep the thread alive.

 

[Kikaku21]

for what it's worth, when i applied, i applied widely "just in case" with no real intention of going anywhere other than chicago. i ended up only getting interviews/acceptances in chicago and that's where i ended up. so, if i could do it all over again, i'd save the extra money and not bother applying anywhere else, and i'm sure things would have turned out the same. if you really don't want to go anywhere else, then don't apply anywhere else.

and, i agree with your sentiments on uic...with your stats, that should be almost a guarantee (as much as there can be any guarantees in this process)

Interesting application. You are kind of similar to me in terms of working for awhile and then switching.

Just curious... What kind of ECs did you have?

 

[Flopotomist]

Interesting application. You are kind of similar to me in terms of working for awhile and then switching.

Just curious... What kind of ECs did you have?

As a classmate of Jbrice - let me warn you, even if your numbers and ECs are the same as his - I can't imagine anybody interviewing as well as this cool cat.

 

[jbrice1639]

As a classmate of Jbrice - let me warn you, even if your numbers and ECs are the same as his - I can't imagine anybody interviewing as well as this cool cat.

oh yeah...it was all in the way i swaggered into the interview...shirt untucked, tie half open...blues brothers hat and shades on...can't beat it

Interesting application. You are kind of similar to me in terms of working for awhile and then switching.

Just curious... What kind of ECs did you have?

aside from the stellar interview, however, my ECs were pretty much just weekly volunteering in a peds ward at a nearby hospital. i treated it like a job, though, and showed up religiously every single week for two years, once a week, so i probably got a pretty solid reference from that. aside from that, i worked while i did my post-bac. between working a regular job, volunteering once a week, and going to class, i didn't really have time for anything else. (and no, i had no research at all.)

 

[anumama]

I was wondering if you guys knew the avg. MCAT score for matriculants for schools like NU and UofC. I was looking in the MSAR and they both have ridiculously high MCAT scores (i think 35Q) but I would assume they would be lower...

 

[doublejab]

i met some students from NU and 5 of the 6 had scores between 24-29, only one student had a 36...

I wouldn't believe any of the scores that's reported in MSAR or US news....

Blessings

 

[Kikaku21]

I was wondering if you guys knew the avg. MCAT score for matriculants for schools like NU and UofC. I was looking in the MSAR and they both have ridiculously high MCAT scores (i think 35Q) but I would assume they would be lower...

Yeah. They are high. NU and U of C are both 35 right now. Remember that MSAR reports the median scores for accepted applicants. This is different than the average scores for matriculants, which is what the US News numbers are. The US news numbers tend to be lower. There are a few reasons this could happen.

1. The distribution is not symmetric. If the average is lower than the median, then the distribution has outliers on the left side.

2. The school accepts a lot more people with higher numbers than actually matriculate.

3. Both. I think number 2 is the most likely though, as it would suggest that the school accepts people at the high end more often. (Whereas 1 implies the opposite.)

 

[146233]

Yeah. They are high. NU and U of C are both 35 right now. Remember that MSAR reports the median scores for accepted applicants. This is different than the average scores for matriculants, which is what the US News numbers are. The US news numbers tend to be lower.

Median and mean ("average") are both measures of central tendency. Median, for this purpose, is probably a better measure to use because it is less vulnerable to influence by outliers.

I agree that MSAR and U.S. News using two VERY different characteristics (median of accepted vs. mean of matriculants) is confusing and generally in poor taste. Maybe they assume that the intelligent folks applying to medical school can comprehend the difference.

Personally, I believe the cause to be mutli-dimensional, resulting in part from folks with ultra-high MCATs (outliers) matriculating elsewhere and in part from the mean being pulled down by low-scoring outliers. Think about it. From what we've seen, it's more likely that the mean gets pulled down a little by several folks being accepted with a 27 or 28 MCAT than pulled up a lot by a bunch of people with 44's. Therefore, I believe that your first postulate may just have some truth to it.


-z

 

[cleothecat]

1) Good preparation for Step 1

2) Strong residency match including radiology, opth,anesthesia and derm

3) Affiliation with good clinical sites

4) Not a high stress school

5) HAPPY STUDENTS

Your choice!!

 

[nosugrefneb]

2. The school accepts a lot more people with higher numbers than actually matriculate.

Right. Most of the top schools have applicants in common with each other, and many of those applicants tend to be highly qualified by virtue of their having applied there and gotten accepted. So, it typically follows that, at the top at least, there tends to be a lot of shuffling and ultimately futile acceptances because people have other offers.

 

[beavisredwood]

I am considering applying ONLY in Chicago, which leaves Loyola, Rush, NU, Chicago, UIC, and Rosalind.

I feel like NU and Chicago are reaches, and the rest are relative safety schools. Considering I am an Illinois resident, I feel like I am likely to get in to UIC--given that I get in anywhere.

My stats are GPA - 3.69, MCAT - 35.

I just wanted to get an idea of how risky people think this is.

Listen,

If you only apply to Chicago schools and don't get into any you'll end up kicking yourself. Be safe and apply to out of state schools as well.

I had similar stats (lower MCAT actually) and got into Rush, UIC, and SIU...still, I feel like if I hadn't applied to OOS schools Murphy's Law would have gone into effect and I wouldn't have gotten into any of my state schools.

As an aside, I liked Rush by far the best of those three.

Good luck.

B