Ophtho Research

[Digitized]

Hey guys, I was wondering, does anyone know what the residancy is like for an ophthalmologist. Specifically, I want to be an opthalmologist for the express purpose of doing research - working in a university or other research lab. I am fairly confidant in my ability to get into medical school and grind it out in terms of the work load and even clinical experience, but I don't want ulitmatly, the responsibility to perform eye surgery and deal with patients, since, my interest is on research and research alone. My first career goal was to do a phD in Vision Science (usually offered in select few institutions under school of optometry). I know that getting a job in this field will be much easier and more secure if I am an ophthalmologist who did a md/phd program, and is now intending to do work as a researcher in the field of vision science. My question to anyone who may know more on the exact details of an ophtho residancy and how one goes in full time research after becoming an ophthalmologist - Is it possible to become an ophthalmogist and go directly into research without ever doing any official clinical work - outside of med school and the residancy? Do people who complete a md/phd ever go directly to research after med school and skip the residancy? And finally, given what I've said about my ultimate goal of pursing Vision Science research only, is med school and ophthalmology a waste of time (the main reason again for not wanting to to clinical ophthalmology and research at the same time for me is that I simply hate the idea of having to wake up in the morning and know I have to perform surgery on someone's eye for the rest of my life)?

I'm currently in my second year of undergrad studies (biophysics and applied math double major). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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[dustinspeer]

If all you want to do is research, then don't waste your time with med school. Not that med school is a waste of time, but for your interests, most of med school would be irrelevant. A PhD in Vision or optics would be perfect. Med school and residency prepares you for patient care, and if you are only doing research, you would rarely if ever use this. If you want an interesting optics/visual systems research idea, PM me and I will hand off a doozy on ya. It would almost guarantee an acceptance into post grad.

 

[none]

I totally disagree with dustinspeer. The combined MD/PhD program is definitely the way to go if you're interested in clinical, or even basic biomedical research. Residency programs for opthalmology last about 3 years. That's not your problem though at this point and shouldn't even be a remote concern. You need to look for med schools that will actually let you do basic vision research during your PhD. That's pretty specific and definitely something I haven't seen a lot of. As for what MD/PhDs do...yes, many do not complete a residency and go directly into post-doctoral training. Most do complete one though and schools generally recommend that you do so. There are MANY residency programs that incorporate a full year of research and MD/PhDs often look for those. Following that, you can do whatever you want. Some MD/PhDs do only research, some only practice, some only lecture. It's up to you. The best however, IMO, incorporate all of those seamlessly.

 

[Ranger Bob]

The primary purpose of the MD degree and ophthalmology residency is clinical practice. Ophthalmologists may get involved in research, but when they do, it's usually clinically oriented, not basic science oriented.

If you have a strong interest in research but are also interested in clinical practice, the MD/PhD + optho residency may be right for you. On the other hand, if you are interested solely in basic science research, the PhD-only route is probably best.

I can't see much advantage in doing MD/PhD without the optho residency. The main point of the MD training is to learn how to treat patients, which you will not be fully qualified to do without the optho residency.

I have some secondhand experience with opthalmology because my wife is an ophthalmologist. That gives me some idea of what the demands of residency are. In my opinion, the intellectual benefits aren't worth the stress of residency UNLESS your goal is to treat patients. But don't take my word for it. Talk with an opthalmologist and/or vision researcher at your local medical school. They'd probably be glad to talk with you because of your enthusiasm for the field. Good luck!

 

[coop]

i agree with ranger bob,
if the reason you want the MD is to be an optho then you certainly are not one if you don't do the residency after you graduate. the MD plus residency (mostly treating pts) is quite a long haul (almost 10 years) since it seems like all you really want is that phd. don't put yourself through it. Do what you want to do, go for the phd and do research.

 

[dustinspeer]

Originally posted by none:
•I totally disagree with dustinspeer. The combined MD/PhD program is definitely the way to go if you're interested in clinical, or even basic biomedical research. Residency programs for opthalmology last about 3 years. That's not your problem though at this point and shouldn't even be a remote concern. You need to look for med schools that will actually let you do basic vision research during your PhD. That's pretty specific and definitely something I haven't seen a lot of. As for what MD/PhDs do...yes, many do not complete a residency and go directly into post-doctoral training. Most do complete one though and schools generally recommend that you do so. There are MANY residency programs that incorporate a full year of research and MD/PhDs often look for those. Following that, you can do whatever you want. Some MD/PhDs do only research, some only practice, some only lecture. It's up to you. The best however, IMO, incorporate all of those seamlessly.•••

Ophtho is 5 year residency. He wants no patient care. Why waste his time?

 

[none]

I'm sure some opthalmology residencies are 5 years long, but there are 3 year ones as well. <a href="http://www.unmc.edu/GME/Opththalmology.htm" target="_blank">http://www.unmc.edu/GME/Opththalmology.htm</a>

 

[dustinspeer]

Originally posted by none:
•I'm sure some opthalmology residencies are 5 years long, but there are 3 year ones as well. <a href="http://www.unmc.edu/GME/Opththalmology.htm" target="_blank">http://www.unmc.edu/GME/Opththalmology.htm</a>•••


I stand corrected. The doc I work for went to Vandy, did his residency there in Internal Med, then changed his mind because of the horrible hours and went back for Ophtho residency. I believe it was 5 years there. I could be wrong.

 

[Ranger Bob]

None is correct that most ophto residencies are 3 years long, but before the optho residency begins, an internship in general medicine or surgery is required. So the total time required is 4 years, not 3. Also, it is quite common for docs to subspecialize by doing a fellowship after residency in areas like neuro-ophthalomology, occuloplastic surgery, glaucoma, ocular oncology, pediatric opthalmology, etc.

 

[Digitized]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I understand what everyone is saying about how the process of becoming a full fledged eye doctor is useless w/o practicing and performing surgery/treating patients, but another perspective, in my unique case is - the better research positions (espicially in vitreo-retinal science, my biggest interest with respect to vision science), are reserved for md/phd's who are ophthalmologists as well as gifted academics (shown throught whatever work they did as a phD). If I'm right, then certainly becoming an ophthalmologist would be worth it for me knowing my end goal. I'm willing to take on the challenges med school, and more importantly, a residancy provides including having to perform surgery. In the end though, I don't want to have to get up a couple of days a week for the rest of my life, and have the pressure of performing surgery on someone's eyes. So, does anyone agree with my sentiment that vision science research at the higest levels (acadamia, research labs) goes to optho's with phD's first, before someone who just as a phD, even if that phD is in something like Vision Science or Physiological Optics or Neuro-physiology, etc.

Thanks

 

[lilycat]

Digitized,

Probably the best way to research this is to talk to people who are currently doing the kind of research you're talking about. If there is some sort of preference for MD/PhD's over PhD's, I have a suspicion it could be because the MD/PhD's offer a clinical practice component to the position, and thus are more desirable (ie, they actually spend time in clinic, in the OR, etc.). Although most of the MD/PhD's I've met only want to do research, or greatly prefer doing research, if they are at an academic medical center they usually have to spend some time doing clinical work as well -- that's just the way a lot of positions are structured financially (ie, 50/50 research and clinical, or 80/20 if they are lucky). Usually the more advanced you are in your career, and the more funding you get for your projects, the more time you can devote to research and get away from clinical work.

Of course, if you work in industry instead, the clinical practice isn't an issue, and you probably could avoid residency as well. I know one person who is planning on doing this as a straight MD.

 

[altaskier]

I did clinical research in Ophthalmology and I agree that all the research is clinically oriented, unless of course you go into Pathology/Ophto....which is a little more basic science oriented.