Opinion please on whether or not to include spring semester grades for primary?

[urd0rkk]

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hello SDN,

i would like to have your input on my current situation. This spring semester looks like I will end up with all A's (maybe 1 A-), but I dont think it'll have a significant impact to my current GPA (3.933).

However, at the same time, it might mean I receive dean's list, and this semester includes my English requirement (along with epidemiology, community health, physiology...) that I feel are additional relevant courses (though not pre-reqs). Are both beneficial enough to wait until grades are finalized in June?

I'm only at my school for so long until graduation (late May), so it's added incentive to just get over the transcript process before I leave for home (permanently)... but another thing is the extra work of updating every school on the last semester that hinders/makes me want to wait until grades are finalized...

I appreciate any thoughts or input. Thank you so much.

 

[lpmarcus010]

A 3.933?? My suggestion is you may want to get a life . Seriously though, I would get your AMCAS out ASAP because it really does make a difference. If you would need to delay getting AMCAS certified due to waiting on Spring grades, then I say F it. You can always send updates to schools...Congrats on the near flawless GPA.

 

[Astarael]

Yes you should include them. The main reason for this is that while you might submit your transcript to AMCAS before June, admissions committees won't see it until late July or early August when you have your application complete (with secondaries, letters, and everything). It would look weird at that point if you don't have spring semester grades in. If it will be difficult to get a transcript from your school due to you moving home, you might want to look into your school's policies to see if you can order a transcript online.

 

[waterpolo480586]

I am in the same situation as you. I have a 3.9+ GPA and am wondering whether to wait for spring grades (4 As and 1 A- I believe). However, I am a junior and was wondering if med schools would hold it against me only seeing 5 semesters of grades. In the end I decided to submit my transcript early and figured that my grades, as with yours, will not be the reason for not getting an interview. I feel that I can send an update letter when my grades come out to the schools shortly after, and while this may not be AMCAS verified, it should be good enough for any school who is wondering about the most recent grades. Hope that helped and good luck.

 

[gettheleadout]

You don't have a choice, you have to include the transcript for your current semester when you apply.

 

[waterpolo480586]

You don't have a choice, you have to include the transcript for your current semester when you apply.

Yes, but I am still in school right now and my grades only become available in the middle of June after I have already sent in my AMCAS application and the transcript from my school. The classes I am taking will be on there just not the grades until I send in the update letter. I actually called AMCAS about this and they said this was fine.

 

[gettheleadout]

Yes, but I am still in school right now and my grades only become available in the middle of June after I have already sent in my AMCAS application and the transcript from my school. The classes I am taking will be on there just not the grades until I send in the update letter. I actually called AMCAS about this and they said this was fine.

As you will be graduating in late May and will have completed the courses you are currently enrolled in by the time you submit your primary, you are required per page 21 of the AMCAS instructions (here: https://www.aamc.org/students/download/125246/data/new_document.pdf) to include the grades for this semester's work with your primary, or you will not be verified. You are under no contractual obligation to send an update letter, and not doing so would leave school's unaware of your most recent academic performance, thus you are required to submit grades for all completed coursework. I imagine whoever you spoke to at AMCAS misunderstood your situation.

Please see this thread for previous discussion on the matter.

 

[NickNaylor]

As you will be graduating in late May and will have completed the courses you are currently enrolled in by the time you submit your primary, you are required per page 21 of the AMCAS instructions (here: https://www.aamc.org/students/download/125246/data/new_document.pdf) to include the grades for this semester's work with your primary, or you will not be verified. You are under no contractual obligation to send an update letter, and not doing so would leave school's unaware of your most recent academic performance, thus you are required to submit grades for all completed coursework. I imagine whoever you spoke to at AMCAS misunderstood your situation.

Please see this thread for previous discussion on the matter.

This. You have no choice OP.

 

[waterpolo480586]

All that it says is that all final grades must be reported. I will not have recieved final grades by the time that I am submitting my AMCAS app. Therefore it is ok to submit the application showing the courses I took without the grades. Then you can submit an update letter to the school. I have now talked to an AMCAS representative about this twice.

 

[gettheleadout]

All that it says is that all final grades must be reported. I will not have recieved final grades by the time that I am submitting my AMCAS app. Therefore it is ok to submit the application showing the courses I took without the grades. Then you can submit an update letter to the school. I have now talked to an AMCAS representative about this twice.

So when you enter the courses into your primary, (as required) what are you going to put for grade received? I'm not aware of an option for "grade not received" and I don't see how you'll be able to fulfill the condition of "grades for completed coursework to date accurately entered" as stated in the instructions.

 

[Cannon]

So when you enter the courses into your primary, (as required) what are you going to put for grade received? I'm not aware of an option for "grade not received" and I don't see how you'll be able to fulfill the condition of "grades for completed coursework to date accurately entered" as stated in the instructions.

There is an option for current/future, which she/he would have to mark.

As long as the grades are not posted by the time she/he submits her/his application, she/he should be fine.

 

[Northwesterly]

What Cannon said. I'm not sure what's so confusing about this--why would the AMCAS site even have an option for "current/future" (rather than simply "future") if applying before grades were up wasn't an option? And what about folks applying while in summer classes? Do you think they all wait 'til those grades are up at the end of August to file a transcript request and submit?

There is an option for current/future, which she/he would have to mark.

As long as the grades are not posted by the time she/he submits her/his application, she/he should be fine.

 

[gettheleadout]

There is an option for current/future, which she/he would have to mark.

As long as the grades are not posted by the time she/he submits her/his application, she/he should be fine.

What Cannon said. I'm not sure what's so confusing about this--why would the AMCAS site even have an option for "current/future" (rather than simply "future") if applying before grades were up wasn't an option? And what about folks applying while in summer classes? Do you think they all wait 'til those grades are up at the end of August to file a transcript request and submit?

A course is completed long before final grades appear on your institutional transcript, so "current" wouldn't apply to the coursework for the semester that is by definition "completed." The "current" option is for summer courses as you've said.

This seems very simple to me: Courses are taken Spring semester. Spring semester is over on X date in May. Spring semester courses are therefore completed. Institution is still processing grades for transcripts into mid-June. Coursework from Spring semester cannot be marked as current, because the semester has ended, and any transcript sent by the institution prior to update with Spring grades will show the courses as ended, and will conflict with whatever the applicant puts in manually on AMCAS. Therefore, attempting to be verified prior to submission of an updated institutional transcript will fail, and thus must be done upon submission of an updated transcript with the Spring course grades on it.

If this weren't the case, it seems like a LOT of people would be able to submit applications without official grades calculated in for multiple prerequisite courses, and without an official obligation to send an update letter (which won't affect GPA screening at medical schools anyway) one could easily let poor grades in Spring semester slip by until submitting a senior year transcript and have their acceptance rescinded.

 

[Northwesterly]

It's also an option for those on the quarter system, whose classes might not finish until the second week of June. (And whose grades might not post until the 3rd or 4th week.)

A course is completed long before final grades appear on your institutional transcript, so "current" wouldn't apply to the coursework for the semester that is by definition "completed." The "current" option is for summer courses as you've said.

 

[gettheleadout]

It's also an option for those on the quarter system, whose classes might not finish until the second week of June. (And whose grades might not post until the 3rd or 4th week.)

In that case, however, their courses would still be in progress, and "current" would be an accurate description.

 

[waterpolo480586]

See pg 40 of the same AMCAS instructions:
"Current/Future
Use this Special Course Type designation for any courses you are currently taking or expect to take before entering medical school. Listing these courses is especially important if you have not yet completed medical school prerequisites. No AMCAS grade will be assigned.
These entries are not binding or required, but are intended to give the medical schools an indication of what courses you expect to complete before matriculation. Current/Future courses do not have to appear on a transcript to be entered in Course Work. AMCAS will not add, remove, or modify Current/Future courses after the application is submitted. If this information changes, please contact the medical school(s) directly.
If current/future grades are entered on the application, but not listed on the official transcript at the time of verification, they will not be included in the AMCAS GPAs. Conversely, if grades are not entered by the applicant, but at the time of verification appear on the official transcript on file at AMCAS, they will be included in the AMCAS GPAs."
And btw pg 21 does NOT say that you have to enter the GRADES for your current course work. It says you have to enter all the COURSES on your transcript (and of course all final grades on your transcript). When you actually enter the courses on the AMCAS application, you can choose to just enter the course and not the grade if there is a "special course type" code you can enter for it - and "Current/Future Course" is one of these course types (other examples are AP courses or Pass/Fail courses). AMCAS accepts transcripts starting on May 5 so if you submit your transcript then to avoid the wait you can just contact the school when you get your grades.
Admittedly, the instructions are not crystal clear on whether you should wait to get your final grades for your current coursework before sending in the application. To check this, I'd called AMCAS twice, just to make sure was no error by the first rep. Both reps explicitly said that it is fine to apply with just 5 semesters worth of grades as a junior - AMCAS will verify the application. They then recommended sending schools an update letter with the grades.
I would suggest that people not rely on the interpretations of others on SDN (including myself) on what the AMCAS instructions mean when it's not 100% clear. If it's important (as this is), just call AMCAS at 202 828-0600 M-F 9-7 EST with your specific question. It will take less than 10 minutes, and will save you from misinformation from well-intentioned posters that could unnecessarily delay your application.

 

[gettheleadout]

See pg 40 of the same AMCAS instructions:
"Current/Future
Use this Special Course Type designation for any courses you are currently taking or expect to take before entering medical school. Listing these courses is especially important if you have not yet completed medical school prerequisites. No AMCAS grade will be assigned.
These entries are not binding or required, but are intended to give the medical schools an indication of what courses you expect to complete before matriculation. Current/Future courses do not have to appear on a transcript to be entered in Course Work. AMCAS will not add, remove, or modify Current/Future courses after the application is submitted. If this information changes, please contact the medical school(s) directly.
If current/future grades are entered on the application, but not listed on the official transcript at the time of verification, they will not be included in the AMCAS GPAs. Conversely, if grades are not entered by the applicant, but at the time of verification appear on the official transcript on file at AMCAS, they will be included in the AMCAS GPAs."
And btw pg 21 does NOT say that you have to enter the GRADES for your current course work. It says you have to enter all the COURSES on your transcript (and of course all final grades on your transcript). When you actually enter the courses on the AMCAS application, you can choose to just enter the course and not the grade if there is a "special course type" code you can enter for it - and "Current/Future Course" is one of these course types (other examples are AP courses or Pass/Fail courses). AMCAS accepts transcripts starting on May 5 so if you submit your transcript then to avoid the wait you can just contact the school when you get your grades.
Admittedly, the instructions are not crystal clear on whether you should wait to get your final grades for your current coursework before sending in the application. To check this, I'd called AMCAS twice, just to make sure was no error by the first rep. Both reps explicitly said that it is fine to apply with just 5 semesters worth of grades as a junior - AMCAS will verify the application. They then recommended sending schools an update letter with the grades.
I would suggest that people not rely on the interpretations of others on SDN (including myself) on what the AMCAS instructions mean when it's not 100% clear. If it's important (as this is), just call AMCAS at 202 828-0600 M-F 9-7 EST with your specific question. It will take less than 10 minutes, and will save you from misinformation from well-intentioned posters that could unnecessarily delay your application.

While this may be accurate, it seems dishonest, at least to me. Many schools screen by GPA pre-interview, and in the case that an applicant's 6th semester GPA lowers their overall GPA, sending the information in an update letter may annoy the adcoms. In the case that their 6th semester GPA raises it overall, they may have been better off just submitting another week or two later with a higher GPA (that will be initially seen by those reviewing applications.) Personally, anytime in June is all the same, and I'll be submitting after my transcript is fully updated.

 

[linusp]

While this may be accurate, it seems dishonest, at least to me. Many schools screen by GPA pre-interview, and in the case that an applicant's 6th semester GPA lowers their overall GPA, sending the information in an update letter may annoy the adcoms. In the case that their 6th semester GPA raises it overall, they may have been better off just submitting another week or two later with a higher GPA (that will be initially seen by those reviewing applications.) Personally, anytime in June is all the same, and I'll be submitting after my transcript is fully updated.

Seemingly dishonest or not, if it's allowed then I don't see why there is a problem. Again I'm just another voice on the internet, but I have friends who applied with 5 semesters and submitted way after grades were officially available, and are off to top tier schools.

I think it's best to listen to AMCAS on this one.

 

[waterpolo480586]

While this may be accurate, it seems dishonest, at least to me. Many schools screen by GPA pre-interview, and in the case that an applicant's 6th semester GPA lowers their overall GPA, sending the information in an update letter may annoy the adcoms. In the case that their 6th semester GPA raises it overall, they may have been better off just submitting another week or two later with a higher GPA (that will be initially seen by those reviewing applications.) Personally, anytime in June is all the same, and I'll be submitting after my transcript is fully updated.

How is this dishonest? In both the OP case and in my case we are both maintaining our 3.9+ GPA this semester and the only reason to submit the application early is to get the maximum benefit out of the rolling admission process (I doubt either myself or the OP will get screened out by GPA). Additionally, the update letter with this semesters grades should get to the school before they decide whether or not to grant an interview, so if these grades raise or lower or GPA the committee will still see this info. This is the smart thing to do as you get the benefit of applying as early as possible, not having to wait two weeks to send your application to AMCAS (by which time they may already be inundated by transcripts), and the schools still see your grades.

 

[linusp]

How is this dishonest? In both the OP case and in my case we are both maintaining our 3.9+ GPA this semester and the only reason to submit the application early is to get the maximum benefit out of the rolling admission process (I doubt either myself or the OP will get screened out by GPA). Additionally, the update letter with this semesters grades should get to the school before they decide whether or not to grant an interview, so if these grades raise or lower or GPA the committee will still see this info. This is the smart thing to do as you get the benefit of applying as early as possible, not having to wait two weeks to send your application to AMCAS (by which time they may already be inundated by transcripts), and the schools still see your grades.

Just for clarification, did they say you *have* to send an update letter, or are you just recommended to?

 

[waterpolo480586]

Just for clarification, did they say you *have* to send an update letter, or are you just recommended to?

They just recommended it. It is something that the school will probably ask about in an interview if they have not recieved an update letter. I mean eventually you will have to send out your grades. This is not intended as a way to "hide" a bad semesters grades, but rather get the most benefit from the rolling admissions process.

 

[TTigers70]

Finally an answer to my question! I have asked 3 times between the AMCAS question thread and the 2016 thread. A professor and his TAs got swamped with grading at the end of the semester leaving myself and several others in a class with temporary grades. To make matters worse, the grading being done counts for 40% of my grade. As a result, if we were passing prior to the assignment, we have temporary C's, if not temp F's. My registrar doesn't consider circumstances when calculating GPAs so it is a C until finalized grade is set and thus KILLS my GPA. I didn't want to wait for the temp grade to be sorted out, then wait for my registrar to process and send my transcript out, and then let AMCAS take its time. Good to see I can simply send this semester's grades in an update letter. Thanks

 

[waterpolo480586]

Finally an answer to my question! I have asked 3 times between the AMCAS question thread and the 2016 thread. A professor and his TAs got swamped with grading at the end of the semester leaving myself and several others in a class with temporary grades. To make matters worse, the grading being done counts for 40% of my grade. As a result, if we were passing prior to the assignment, we have temporary C's, if not temp F's. My registrar doesn't consider circumstances when calculating GPAs so it is a C until finalized grade is set and thus KILLS my GPA. I didn't want to wait for the temp grade to be sorted out, then wait for my registrar to process and send my transcript out, and then let AMCAS take its time. Good to see I can simply send this semester's grades in an update letter. Thanks

Glad that this helped.

 

[NickNaylor]

You're free to do whatever you want, however I would be careful about these little loopholes that you're exploiting. If you graduated and your final grades aren't listed on your transcript, you almost certainly will be asked about it at interviews, and I'm thinking that's not going to be a conversation that starts on the right foot.

I agree with gettheleadout - the intent of the rule is pretty clear, and these grades should be listed. Do what you want, but the medical admissions game isn't something you want to screw around with IMO. You're setting yourself up for problems. Is it possible (maybe even likely) that nothing bad happens? Sure. But that wouldn't be a risk I want to take.

 

[gravitywave]

frankly, i would wait and include them regardless of the rules debate going on in here. it's one more semester of superlative performance, and waiting until the end of June isn't going to hurt you with that GPA.

actually, waiting until the end of June won't hurt anyone, but that's a matter for a different thread 😛

 

[waterpolo480586]

frankly, i would wait and include them regardless of the rules debate going on in here. it's one more semester of superlative performance, and waiting until the end of June isn't going to hurt you with that GPA.

actually, waiting until the end of June won't hurt anyone, but that's a matter for a different thread 😛

The school will get the update letter before they even begin reviewing my application, as I will send it out as soon as I recieve grades (2nd to 3rd week of June). This allows you to get your application submitted as early as possible and still have the schools see all your grades. This is much better than waiting till the end of June to submit your app, where at this point AMCAS will be inundated with transcripts. I agree that applying at the beginning vs. end of June will not make a huge diffence, but medical school admissions can be a crapshoot so why not try and better your chances even a little bit.

 

[NickNaylor]

The school will get the update letter before they even begin reviewing my application, as I will send it out as soon as I recieve grades (2nd to 3rd week of June). This allows you to get your application submitted as early as possible and still have the schools see all your grades. This is much better than waiting till the end of June to submit your app, where at this point AMCAS will be inundated with transcripts. I agree that applying at the beginning vs. end of June will not make a huge diffence, but medical school admissions can be a crapshoot so why not try and better your chances even a little bit.

And you think fooling around with the rules betters your chances? I don't care what the people you talked to said: the intent of the rules are pretty clear.

But again, do what you want.

 

[4sport]

I’m sure you’ve been helpful on many occasions, NickNaylor, but I think you’re a bit out of line here. People have checked with AMCAS and found out something useful, on something it turns out that you were giving wrong advice about, when you said earlier in this thread that the OP does not have a choice:

This. You have no choice OP.

It’s also not correct for you to say that the intent of AMCAS is clear, and that OP and others are “fooling around with the rules”. Since I’m interested in this, I just called AMCAS myself to check on this specific question, and what their intent is. They were 100% clear that there is absolutely no intent of AMCAS to do what you suggest, and that the decision of whether to go ahead and submit the application in early June without this semester’s grades is entirely up to the applicant - it is not “fooling with the rules” in any way. They clearly said that some applicants may prefer to wait and have the sixth semester’s grades available, and others may decide to submit early with only five semesters worth of grades – but that is a decision for the applicant to make and there is no AMCAS preference.

Maybe one of the posters may be using this flexibility in a way that you may not like. On the other hand, OP and waterpolo have been clear that they are using it purely to expedite their application, and I don’t see any need to accuse them of “fooling with the rules”. But in any case, the big takeaway is that they all have a choice – and AMCAS leaves it up to them to decide.

With over 5000 posts, I’m sure you’ve been a great help to the SDN community. But you are not going to be correct each time, and if more accurate information than yours becomes available, it’s not necessary to cast aspersions on those who have discovered the new info.

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm sure you've been helpful on many occasions, NickNaylor, but I think you're a bit out of line here. People have checked with AMCAS and found out something useful, on something it turns out that you were giving wrong advice about, when you said earlier in this thread that the OP does not have a choice:

It's also not correct for you to say that the intent of AMCAS is clear, and that OP and others are "fooling around with the rules". Since I'm interested in this, I just called AMCAS myself to check on this specific question, and what their intent is. They were 100% clear that there is absolutely no intent of AMCAS to do what you suggest, and that the decision of whether to go ahead and submit the application in early June without this semester's grades is entirely up to the applicant - it is not "fooling with the rules" in any way. They clearly said that some applicants may prefer to wait and have the sixth semester's grades available, and others may decide to submit early with only five semesters worth of grades – but that is a decision for the applicant to make and there is no AMCAS preference.

Maybe one of the posters may be using this flexibility in a way that you may not like. On the other hand, OP and waterpolo have been clear that they are using it purely to expedite their application, and I don't see any need to accuse them of "fooling with the rules". But in any case, the big takeaway is that they all have a choice – and AMCAS leaves it up to them to decide.

With over 5000 posts, I'm sure you've been a great help to the SDN community. But you are not going to be correct each time, and if more accurate information than yours becomes available, it's not necessary to cast aspersions on those who have discovered the new info.

Fair enough. I don't really care how the poster does things. I'm simply saying that not submitting your latest semester of grades has a chance of being perceived as dubious. When a majority of applicants likely include their latest grades and you don't, wouldn't you that's questionable if you were looking at that application?

Also, submitting the second or third week of June versus June 1st is a meaningless difference. It seems like a really stupid reason to not list grades.

 

[waterpolo480586]

I was wondering if Catalystik or LizzyM had any thoughts on this issue?

 

[LizzyM]

We often see "current/future" classes listed. If you are applying as a junior, I would recommend including all grades up through the Spring semester/quarter. If you are a senior, it matters much less.

If your gpa is >3.9 it doesn't much matter when you apply and a single semester/quarter of grades isn't going change it much.

 

[linusp]

We often see "current/future" classes listed. If you are applying as a junior, I would recommend including all grades up through the Spring semester/quarter. If you are a senior, it matters much less.

If your gpa is >3.9 it doesn't much matter when you apply and a single semester/quarter of grades isn't going change it much.

If we are applying as a junior and we have classes listed as current/future for the spring semester, it doesn't hurt us correct? My spring grades are fine, and I have no qualms sending in an updated transcript to schools who are interested, but I simply wanted everything in as early as I could.

My GPA will still be above 3.9 (with or without spring grades).

 

[LizzyM]

If we are applying as a junior and we have classes listed as current/future for the spring semester, it doesn't hurt us correct? My spring grades are fine, and I have no qualms sending in an updated transcript to schools who are interested, but I simply wanted everything in as early as I could.

My GPA will still be above 3.9 (with or without spring grades).

With a 3.9 you will have an advantage regardless of when you apply. I like to see at least 3 full years of completed coursework. I don't know if I feel negatively about having less than 3 full years of grades. Updates don't make it to your AMCAS application and therefore don't get viewed the same way as the trancript section of the MCAT application is viewed.

 

[linusp]

With a 3.9 you will have an advantage regardless of when you apply. I like to see at least 3 full years of completed coursework. I don't know if I feel negatively about having less than 3 full years of grades. Updates don't make it to your AMCAS application and therefore don't get viewed the same way as the trancript section of the MCAT application is viewed.

Great, thank you for the advice! Hopefully it isn't held against me, but I feel confident enough about my academic track record. I've already sent my transcripts,so I'll report back later in the cycle, for future applicants at least, how it was perceived.

FWIW to other applicants, I spoke to another adcom whom I know and she said regarding my situation 5 semesters was fine. I'm guessing it won't be a deal breaker, but I'll let people know if it ever comes up.

Thanks for the help as always!