Opinion requested re: match in ophtho

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Tx Guy

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Hey, just looking for some opinions on my chances to match in ophtho. Just sent in SF app and nervous about my chances, need to know if I should really pursue a backup plan through ERAS (like Int Med), or if I'm likely safe enough to just look for prelim/transitional year programs...good board scores (>240), good third year grades (honors in medicine & surgery, high pass in all else), but only okay overall grades when including first and second year (2nd quarter overall ranking) good med school (UT Southwestern), no real research (doing a case report for a cornea fellow if that helps at all), hopefully decent LOR's (I didn't request to read them). I mostly applied to middle to upper tier programs, with a few lower tier ones for good measure. Appreciate any opinions. Thanks 🙂
 
Tx Guy said:
Hey, just looking for some opinions on my chances to match in ophtho. Just sent in SF app and nervous about my chances, need to know if I should really pursue a backup plan through ERAS (like Int Med), or if I'm likely safe enough to just look for prelim/transitional year programs...good board scores (>240), good third year grades (honors in medicine & surgery, high pass in all else), but only okay overall grades when including first and second year (2nd quarter overall ranking) good med school (UT Southwestern), no real research (doing a case report for a cornea fellow if that helps at all), hopefully decent LOR's (I didn't request to read them). I mostly applied to middle to upper tier programs, with a few lower tier ones for good measure. Appreciate any opinions. Thanks 🙂

Sounds good but what have you done to show your interest in ophtho - any 4th year rotations in ophtho? Who did you get LORs from - any big ophtho letters?
 
Yeah, I did an optho rotation at my school, and no away rotations (told they wouldn't really help.) One letter from the chairman of optho dept, one from the program director at our program, and one from a surgeon. Chairman didn't know me well but told me he could fake it pretty well. 🙂
 
Tx Guy said:
Yeah, I did an optho rotation at my school, and no away rotations (told they wouldn't really help.) One letter from the chairman of optho dept, one from the program director at our program, and one from a surgeon. Chairman didn't know me well but told me he could fake it pretty well. 🙂


Looks like you are on your way to matching 👍 - best of luck on the interview trail!! :luck:
 
no offense visioncam, but isn't it a bit crazy to do a plastics residency, then oculoplastics fellowship just to get into ophtho? this guy should have no problem matching.
 
It's a silly notion that you should "prove" that you love ophthalmology. I think proof enough is going through the entire ridiculous process to try to match. I don't even know why PD's would assume that someone wasn't interested, if they knew the applicant has LOR's from OPH and is applying to OPH. Of course, every year some jacka** who could care less if they did OPH or medicine gets into a program.

Besides, you shouldn't go through drastic measures to prove you are interested in any field. Enough with the jumping through hoops already. Anyone who has gotten into, and sucessfully completed three years of medical school has proven they are interested enough, and has shown enough committment and responsibility that they can make their own decisions as to what direction to take in their career.

I think in any other career, interest probably matters a lot more. But in medicine, we've all proven that we can make it through the MOST BORING subjects and rotations while wearing a maniacal grin across our face for 80 hours a week. Who knows who is truly interested. People will say, for the money and the lifestyle, I could needle-point stitch for 40 hours a week and be happily bored...and they proved it through the first three years of medical school. When your options vary from working 80 hour weeks with Q3 call and dealing with pure crap, people will very gladly take any alternative that offers a better lifestyle. Better be bored 40 hours a week than be excited and working 80. And it just doesn't matter when it comes to desireable specialties, anyway.

TxGuy...I think you'll probably do just fine. I think my medicine and surgery grades killed me, otherwise our applications are similar. You'll more than likely match, however, definitely think one step ahead and have an idea of what to do if you don't match. Will you reapply? Will you scramble for a different specialty? Apply through ERAS for a backup? And so on....

Not only will you be asked this on some of your interviews, but you need to have an action plan...I, unfortunately, was too short-sighted to figure that not matching was a real possibility and found myself with too little time to make big decisions. Think now so that you can act later if need be. Not matching is absolutely TRAUMATIZING and will throw your entire view of medicine into the gutter. The match, is, in my opinion, the most unfair process in your road to becoming a doctor. Interviewing is grueling and expensive, and coming out on the other side with nothing to show for it but credit card debt will make you hate the process, and perhaps medicine in general. You will be too blinded by this to clearly think of your options if this does occur.

Anyway, anyone having troubles getting interviews or worried about not matching, or if on the fateful day you come up empty-handed, feel free to message me.

Later
Geddy
 
Hey Geddy,

So are you reapplying to ophtho this year? What are your plans?
 
GeddyLee said:
It's a silly notion that you should "prove" that you love ophthalmology. I think proof enough is going through the entire ridiculous process to try to match.

Interest and love for the field of ophthalmology is essential.

With numerous high caliber applicants, strong conviction to pursue ophthalmology differentiates outstanding candidates from the average applicants.

Programs want to know which applicants will not quit. Without love for the field, individuals may quit when cataract surgery becomes 'boring' or 'routine'; or, people may quit when optometry pushes harder for scope of practice expansions and achieves them.

An applicant's dedication and desire to pursue ophthalmology are illustrated by their extracurricular pursuits, academic/research interests, and performance during ophthalmology electives. All of these examples are outlined in the CV and discussed in the personal statement and letters of recommendation.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Interest and love for the field of ophthalmology is essential.

With numerous high caliber applicants, strong conviction to pursue ophthalmology differentiates outstanding candidates from the average applicants.

Programs want to know which applicants will not quit. Without love for the field, individuals may quit when cataract surgery becomes 'boring' or 'routine'; or, people may quit when optometry pushes harder for scope of practice expansions and achieves them.

An applicant's dedication and desire to pursue ophthalmology are illustrated by their extracurricular pursuits, academic/research interests, and performance during ophthalmology electives. All of these examples are outlined in the CV and discussed in the personal statement and letters of recommendation.

Well, the either the system is flawed, or PD's don't have a good eye for committment to the field in some cases. One of my classmates with a fairly average application, no OPH research or extracurriculars, and only one 3rd year OPH elective matched. Where's the proof of commitment and love for OPH there? I'm sure this isn't an isolated case. In fact, one of the new residents at my institution told me he routinely skipped days during his OPH elective, never read during that rotation, and had no research. Yet he honored his OPH elective and matched at one of his top choices. If a student is AOA with boards >250, I'm certain they'd match, even with minimal evidence of committment to the field. And I won't even comment on the fairness of evaluation, given the example I just cited.

How can anyone tell who is truly interested in the field? You might have students who pad their CV's with meaningless research to show committment. Then, you may have students with average scores and no evidence of committment who take a "lottery" approach and squeeze into a spot someplace, all the while having their ace-in-the-hole in another "lifestyle" specialty. How does one grade committment, when committment is a key factor in being a successful resident and future ophthalmologist?

Then there are folks on this forum who are re-applying this year...and even folks I met at interviews who were re-applying for the third time. Obviously, that shows profound committment. However, success rates for re-applicants are considerably lower than first time applicants. The stats say that about 85% of US seniors matched, while only about 50% of US graduates matched last year. If committment is truly so important, one would reason that re-applicants would have at least an equal chance, unless their grades truly are horrendous. The stats don't seem to support that notion, however.

Dr. Doan, I'm not taking issue with your comments. I believe that honest committment to any field of medicine in absolutely necessary to achieve the most you can in that field. But medical students have been trained since college to pad their CV's to prove "committment". The first thing any pre-med will be told by their advisor is to go do volunteer work and complete some research to make their application look attractive. How many of them volunteer purely for the love of helping others, and how many do it just to mark something else off the pre-med checklist? The same applies to applicants for competetive residencies. How many times have you witnessed the med student proclaim their love of whatever rotation they are on, in hopes of persuading a good evaluation? All in all, I think medical students have been very well groomed and trained in the art of deception and manipulation.

My point is, if you are truly committed to OPH, and truly are excited by it, you probably would have done those things that show evidence for that, without regards to you CV. You wouldn't start doing it just in time for you OPH interviews or application, ie. jump through hoops. THe proof, so to speak, is in the pudding.

At any rate, best of luck to you all. I've decided to pursue a different path. Despite my most earnest and sincere love of ophthalmology, I didn't want to put my family or myself through the stress of another OPH match. I've found a career that will be equally rewarding that I find equally exciting for many of the same reasons as OPH, and will likely be easier to get into. I just couldn't see the point of re-applying this year when my application is essentially unchanged, and I just couldn't wait out another year to improve it. It is very difficult to change your application. During internship, you don't have time to do anything really meaningful in the field of OPH. Which means, you really don't have much time to improve you application even for the year following internship. But I see no sense in re-applying until something significantly changes, and it would just take too much time to change...at least a year, if not two. I will sincerely miss being in the ophthalmology clinic. But, times change, people change, and I think what I'm doing will end up making me happy in both the short-term, and the long-term. Who knows? I'm very excited about my direction now.

Geddy
 
GeddyLee said:
.

All in all, I think medical students have been very well groomed and trained in the art of deception and manipulation.


That's for damn sure.

Geddy, I think things happen for a reason and some things are just completely out of our control. But I think that in the end, things will work out for the best. That's how I see things anyway and that's why I'm not going to stress out over my own upcoming match. You seem like a very intelligent and ethical person and I think that you will become successful in any field that you decide to pursue. I am happy that you have found a field to dedicate your career to and wish you the best of luck in your residency and beyond... :luck:
 
GeddyLee said:
Well, the either the system is flawed, or PD's don't have a good eye for committment to the field in some cases. One of my classmates with a fairly average application, no OPH research or extracurriculars, and only one 3rd year OPH elective matched. Where's the proof of commitment and love for OPH there? I'm sure this isn't an isolated case. In fact, one of the new residents at my institution told me he routinely skipped days during his OPH elective, never read during that rotation, and had no research. Yet he honored his OPH elective and matched at one of his top choices. If a student is AOA with boards >250, I'm certain they'd match, even with minimal evidence of committment to the field. And I won't even comment on the fairness of evaluation, given the example I just cited.

Geddy,

The system is not perfect. However, if there are two applicants with equal credentials, then programs will prefer the one who has demonstrated interest and commitment to the field.

Also, I worked with a student who scored 255+ on Step 1 and did not match last year.
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Geddy,

The system is not perfect. However, if there are two applicants with equal credentials, then programs will prefer the one who has demonstrated interest and commitment to the field.

Also, I worked with a student who scored 255+ on Step 1 and did not match last year.

Obviously, that's a high score. In what other ways was their applicant or the candidate deficiant?

Jenny
 
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