Opportunities for US-Trained Psychiatrist abroad?

[ryerica22]

I've been contemplating going away with my significant other to Europe or Australia for a year after I finish residency in a few months. I was wondering if there are opportunities to do telepsych abroad or even work somewhere outside with Us training? Does Doctors Without Borders have any opportunities?

I think this is also me just wanting a vacation really badly!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Georgit]

Someone in the Forum asked me if it'spossible to do an elective here in Italy. I've asked around, yes there is a good chance.
The problem I see, in psychiatry you are bound to talk a lot so you are restricted to anglophone countries. Main anglophone countries are in Africa, or you could work with immigrant/refugee... but both position I would not call a relaxing vacation

 

[Monocles]

I don't have any personal experience but one of the attendings I know in Boston did a year of her residency in New Zealand (she only needed to complete pgy-1 to be counted as a "licensed practitioner" in NZ) and loved it!

 

[clausewitz2]

Someone in the Forum asked me if it'spossible to do an elective here in Italy. I've asked around, yes there is a good chance.
The problem I see, in psychiatry you are bound to talk a lot so you are restricted to anglophone countries. Main anglophone countries are in Africa, or you could work with immigrant/refugee... but both position I would not call a relaxing vacation

A recent ranking of countries in the world by average adult English proficiency (exempting British Isles and the settler colonies, obviously), specifically the category of "Very High":

• 01Sweden
• 02Netherlands
• 03Singapore
• 04Norway
• 05Denmark
• 06South Africa
• 07Luxembourg
• 08Finland
• 09Slovenia
• 10Germany
• 11Belgium
• 12Austria

Italy was 34 on this list, for perspective. India is 28 and Nigeria 29, although obviously if you restricted this to people of a certain SES the numbers would change dramatically.

From personal experience I lived in the Netherlands for a good while and encountered exactly two people who did not feel comfortable speaking English for prolonged periods of time. Most graduate programs in the country operate solely in English.

 

[deleted736562]

A recent ranking of countries in the world by average adult English proficiency (exempting British Isles and the settler colonies, obviously), specifically the category of "Very High":

• 01Sweden
• 02Netherlands
• 03Singapore
• 04Norway
• 05Denmark
• 06South Africa
• 07Luxembourg
• 08Finland
• 09Slovenia
• 10Germany
• 11Belgium
• 12Austria

Italy was 34 on this list, for perspective. India is 28 and Nigeria 29, although obviously if you restricted this to people of a certain SES the numbers would change dramatically.

From personal experience I lived in the Netherlands for a good while and encountered exactly two people who did not feel comfortable speaking English for prolonged periods of time. Most graduate programs in the country operate solely in English.

To put things in perspective, you probably can get around in Germany with just English but there's no way you can practice medicine or psychiatry. Only young people have an OKish hold on English, and even then.

 

[Amygdarya]

I don't have any personal experience but one of the attendings I know in Boston did a year of her residency in New Zealand (she only needed to complete pgy-1 to be counted as a "licensed practitioner" in NZ) and loved it!

Two of my attendings worked for a year in New Zealand right after completing their fellowships.

 

[clausewitz2]

To put things in perspective, you probably can get around in Germany with just English but there's no way you can practice medicine or psychiatry. Only young people have an OKish hold on English, and even then.

I think it depends very strongly where in Germany you are going; in the East that is definitely true but many parts of the old FRG the level of proficiency is significantly higher. For what it is worth, the organization that produced that ranking defines their high proficiency category as being able to read advanced texts with easy, negotiate a contract with a native speaker, and use nuanced and appropriate language in social situations.

I think you are very foolish if you think you are going to do psychotherapy unless you and the patient share native-level proficiency in some language but if you want to do the kind of psychiatry that grinds med checks I don't think that's super necessary; as has been pointed out elsewhere there are definitely psychiatrists in this country who manage it.

If we are getting all anecdotal I think Finland is my cut-off in terms of proficiency in that list for being comfortable practicing pharmacologically-oriented psychiatry. But there's always NZ and Oz.

 

[deleted736562]

I think it depends very strongly where in Germany you are going; in the East that is definitely true but many parts of the old FRG the level of proficiency is significantly higher. For what it is worth, the organization that produced that ranking defines their high proficiency category as being able to read advanced texts with easy, negotiate a contract with a native speaker, and use nuanced and appropriate language in social situations.

I think you are very foolish if you think you are going to do psychotherapy unless you and the patient share native-level proficiency in some language but if you want to do the kind of psychiatry that grinds med checks I don't think that's super necessary; as has been pointed out elsewhere there are definitely psychiatrists in this country who manage it.

If we are getting all anecdotal I think Finland is my cut-off in terms of proficiency in that list for being comfortable practicing pharmacologically-oriented psychiatry. But there's always NZ and Oz.

You can probably practice pharmaco in broken German yes, but too many people are uncomfortable with English to speak/understand, including West Germany.

Anyways, this is just for the fun of it, cause in most of those countries you can't practice period if you aren't certified in the native language.

For the OP, there are opportunities in telepsych (though opinion on legality seems a bit controversial), but there are people who do it.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

For the OP, there are opportunities in telepsych (though opinion on legality seems a bit controversial), but there are people who do it.

Do you mean a US-trained, board certified psychiatrist living in Europe can see patients in the US?

Or do you mean the US physician can practice telepsych within the European/other country to see European patients?

Seems risky

 

[TexasPhysician]

New Zealand and Australia routinely have openings. The US military often contracts with physicians to practice on-base in different parts of the world.

 

[deleted736562]

Do you mean a US-trained, board certified psychiatrist living in Europe can see patients in the US?

Or do you mean the US physician can practice telepsych within the European/other country to see European patients?

Seems risky

I mean US-trained living in Europe and seeing patients in the US. I know people who have done it in Europe or in other countries like Nepal.

Some companies allow it, particularly in the ER setting since reimbursements are not driven through medicaid/medicare, but I would recommend to speak to a lawyer. Cash only telepsych is also feasible. It will also depend on which country you plan to do it from and their own regulations.

 

[alina_s]

Canada has different rules province by province. Unless you’re highly fluent in French, Quebec is off-limits. The territories are very rural and as far as I can tell, don’t hire specialists. I’m most familiar with BC and although there is a lengthy credential verification process, once you pass it, you can work for a few years without taking their exams. They seemed to have a refreshingly different idea of physician productivity.

 

[Georgit]

From personal experience I lived in the Netherlands for a good while and encountered exactly two people who did not feel comfortable speaking English for prolonged periods of time. Most graduate programs in the country operate solely in English.

Dutch is the language closest to English, so no surprise. Than in the list there are scandinavian countries, yes there they are fluent in English.
In the for me pretty close Slovenia, only the youngest are really proficient
In Italy we have improved over the last decades, 30 years ago the level was really low

 

[notdeadyet]

I’d be cautious about aligning a country’s English proficiency with their laws regarding language abilities of their doctors.

I know jobs for Denmark sometimes come up. The most frequent one I’ve seen requires you/your family to spend 5 months in Hungary in an intensive Danish program (waaay cheaper to live in Hungary, I guess). They give you a stipend for the 5 months before you can move to Denmark and do your two year contract.

Foreign countries that have amazing English often skew that way towards folks who are educated and/or work in the tourist trade. Not many employers are going to want to pay big money to folks who don’t speak the local language.

 

[uhmocksuhsillen]

I’d be cautious about aligning a country’s English proficiency with their laws regarding language abilities of their doctors.

I know jobs for Denmark sometimes come up. The most frequent one I’ve seen requires you/your family to spend 5 months in Hungary in an intensive Danish program (waaay cheaper to live in Hungary, I guess). They give you a stipend for the 5 months before you can move to Denmark and do your two year contract.

Foreign countries that have amazing English often skew that way towards folks who are educated and/or work in the tourist trade. Not many employers are going to want to pay big money to folks who don’t speak the local language.

Any ballpark idea of what these Danish jobs pay?

 

[clausewitz2]

I’d be cautious about aligning a country’s English proficiency with their laws regarding language abilities of their doctors.

I know jobs for Denmark sometimes come up. The most frequent one I’ve seen requires you/your family to spend 5 months in Hungary in an intensive Danish program (waaay cheaper to live in Hungary, I guess). They give you a stipend for the 5 months before you can move to Denmark and do your two year contract.

Foreign countries that have amazing English often skew that way towards folks who are educated and/or work in the tourist trade. Not many employers are going to want to pay big money to folks who don’t speak the local language.

Singapore absolutely hires monolingual English-speaking docs as they recruit very heavily in Australia. You are absolutely spot on about the laws, though - most of the countries I mentioned earlier require demonstration of proficiency in their local languages, often via a formal exam.

 

[deleted736562]

I’d be cautious about aligning a country’s English proficiency with their laws regarding language abilities of their doctors.

I know jobs for Denmark sometimes come up. The most frequent one I’ve seen requires you/your family to spend 5 months in Hungary in an intensive Danish program (waaay cheaper to live in Hungary, I guess). They give you a stipend for the 5 months before you can move to Denmark and do your two year contract.

Foreign countries that have amazing English often skew that way towards folks who are educated and/or work in the tourist trade. Not many employers are going to want to pay big money to folks who don’t speak the local language.

That's very true and that applies to all Scandinavian countries as well. Though they will go a long way to make you come there (pay for accomodation, living for you and your family while taking intensive language lessons).

Some of the few exceptions are Malta since everyone is fluent in English and Cyprus if I'm not mistaken.

 

[NickNaylor]

I get e-mails for a recruiter from New Zealand trying to fill psychiatric positions there. Seems like a pretty sweet gig, and by all accounts New Zealand is absolutely beautiful.

 

[Georgit]

Some of the few exceptions are Malta since everyone is fluent in English

True