Oral Boards 2023

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IDKwhattodoyet

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Figured I should make one of these for those of us that just signed up. Mine is in early April so about 6 mo away. Thinking about starting the prep since I'm in fellowship.

What resources is everyone planning on using? I've heard of ultimate board prep and Dr. Ho's course. The Dr. Ho's course is pretty $$$.

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Figured I should make one of these for those of us that just signed up. Mine is in early April so about 6 mo away. Thinking about starting the prep since I'm in fellowship.

What resources is everyone planning on using? I've heard of ultimate board prep and Dr. Ho's course. The Dr. Ho's course is pretty $$$.
ABA oral exam pass rate was 88% in 2021. Even if you fail the first time, statistically you have a 98% chance of passing either the first or second time combined. Why would anyone spend thousands on a review course.
 
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Anyone looking for a study partner? I'm also in fellowship and looking to start soon.
Leaning towards UBP but still trying to decide.
 
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ABA oral exam pass rate was 88% in 2021. Even if you fail the first time, statistically you have a 98% chance of passing either the first or second time combined. Why would anyone spend thousands on a review course.
That assumes that the pass rate is like flipping a coin. If you fail once, if you don’t change anything the likelihood will fail again is high.
 
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If you aren’t sure, just take a course, any course. They’re all very similar. You’re an attending (going to be an attending), you can afford it, you also (may) have cme money that you can spent.
Get it done the first time, so you don’t ever have to worry about it again.
 
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ABA oral exam pass rate was 88% in 2021. Even if you fail the first time, statistically you have a 98% chance of passing either the first or second time combined. Why would anyone spend thousands on a review course.
Well, the large proportion who do a prep course are already rolled into those statistics. Second, I’m already shelling out money left and right for board exams, credentialing, moving, rent fees. The jump from training to practicing is just expensive. There’s no getting around it.

Not to mention how much better the pay is now. Just a few months ago most of us were in positions where someone calling in sick meant doing an extra call for no extra pay. I’ll gladly pick up an extra call now just to have a bit more peace of mind
 
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Well, the large proportion who do a prep course are already rolled into those statistics. Second, I’m already shelling out money left and right for board exams, credentialing, moving, rent fees. The jump from training to practicing is just expensive. There’s no getting around it.

Not to mention how much better the pay is now. Just a few months ago most of us were in positions where someone calling in sick meant doing an extra call for no extra pay. I’ll gladly pick up an extra call now just to have a bit more peace of mind
To each there own, certainly nothing wrong with being over prepared. Perhaps one of us should start our own review company and charge a reasonable price.
 
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Any of the courses have hands on osce prep?
From what I understand we have to use ultrasound To get views both of heart and lungs and identify pathologies?
 
Any of the courses have hands on osce prep?
From what I understand we have to use ultrasound To get views both of heart and lungs and identify pathologies?
Identify anatomy, not pathology.
 
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Any of the courses have hands on osce prep?
From what I understand we have to use ultrasound To get views both of heart and lungs and identify pathologies?

Just need a basic tte and block experience it's very straightforward
 
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Any of the courses have hands on osce prep?
From what I understand we have to use ultrasound To get views both of heart and lungs and identify pathologies?
yes Ultrasound is fair game, would go over everything on the content outline.
 
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Identify anatomy, not pathology.
we dont need to be able to diagnose pericardial effusions? tamponade? pneumothorax by using the ultrasound and placing it on a patient?

i guess tamponade on a live patient maybe a little much haha ?
 
we dont need to be able to diagnose pericardial effusions? tamponade? pneumothorax by using the ultrasound and placing it on a patient?

i guess tamponade on a live patient maybe a little much haha ?

Get the view and point out anatomy it isn't a trick
 
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got it, its been a while since iv used ultrasound for TTE and the lungs. Do any of these prep classes have hands on practice for these particular items? i imagine it takes some practice to get the views... dont want test day to be my practice time..
 
got it, its been a while since iv used ultrasound for TTE and the lungs. Do any of these prep classes have hands on practice for these particular items? i imagine it takes some practice to get the views... dont want test day to be my practice time..
Any phased array probes at your current place of employment you can use to practice? Just look up "university of Utah echo" and have a blast. There are basic lectures, anatomy lectures, and FOCUS exams. They'll talk to you about how to optimize your images on TTE, angles, directions, etc. There is more than enough material there and it's free.
 
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Hello! My name is Vivian, a new grad who just started working as an attending. I’ll be taking my oral boards exam in April 2023. Looking for a study buddy to do cases with in preparation for the exam. Contact me if interested!
 
ABA oral exam pass rate was 88% in 2021. Even if you fail the first time, statistically you have a 98% chance of passing either the first or second time combined. Why would anyone spend thousands on a review course.
Because not passing the exam for the first time can easily translate into many thousands lost in income. And it will follow one for one's entire career (anybody can do the math and figure out whether it was pass on first try or not).

Usually, but not always, those people fail for a reason that doesn't go away with time, even if they pass on their second try. There can be a serious judgment or knowledge problem, which comes out in crisis situations (just like during the boards). If an anesthesiologist can't perform under stress, then when?
 
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Because not passing the exam for the first time can easily translate into many thousands lost in income. And it will follow one for one's entire career (anybody can do the math and figure out whether it was pass on first try or not).

Usually, but not always, those people fail for a reason that doesn't go away with time, even if they pass on their second try. There can be a serious judgment or knowledge problem, which comes out in crisis situations (just like during the boards). If an anesthesiologist can't perform under stress, then when?
How does not passing immediately mean lost income? Most people already have a job. No pay difference for BE versus BC.
 
How does not passing immediately mean lost income? Most people already have a job. No pay difference for BE versus BC.
i thought getting board certified meant you got payed more? what do i know
 
I think some academic places give you a small bonus for being board certified. Like 3000 dollars and or you’re promoted from instructor to assistant professor. I don’t think private practice cares. I think if you’re not board certified though within your eligibility period tho that could be a issue. You may have a hard time getting a job at a lot of places because of credentialing issues. Also, if you have to use vacation to retake the exam that could be thousands of dollars of lost pay.
 
Don't forget how to do a qi project. That info is not quite as well described in the little PDF they provide. The plan do study act thing usually works, but it was kinda not sufficient for my little case.

That said, please dont pay for course. If you pay for anything, pay for like half a dozen really good exams. With people you don't know who are actual hard-ass board certified physicians.
 
I did the Ho course. I felt it helped structure things better in my head. It is expensive and maybe it is a little overkill, but the course prep there was better than UBP. If you don't do the course, I would recommend doing the mock orals with Dr. Ho. He'll make you feel like an idiot, but you'll be more prepared for when your train of thought is interrupted or redirected on the exam.

OSCE is a bunch of crap.
 
How does not passing immediately mean lost income? Most people already have a job. No pay difference for BE versus BC.
It leads to lost income because you have to pay for the test again, study for the test again, which may mean you can't work as much because you're studying extra hard this time, and take the test again, which requires taking time off work.

And in academics, my salary increased by 14K when board certified.
 
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I did not use a course. I do like structure, so I was really considering using one of the courses. However, you just have to know oneself. I know that confidence is a huge deal for me when it comes to this test. I didn’t want my confidence shattered by getting crapped on by these mock examiners. I knew that if I just did what I was trained to do in residency and not freak myself out that I’d be fine. So I just got as many retired mock exams I could find on the internet and went through those on my own. What’s nice about the oral boards is that it is quite regimented. The questions all become very similar and scripted. Any “curveballs” are usually follow up questions meant to stump and fluster you. But there are a set of questions they must ask and follow and honestly, was not anything I hadn’t done before or seen before from the retired stems.

I definitely do not think you need a course. However, maybe only if literally have no one to practice with or don’t feel confident practicing by yourself. The content I didn’t think was very difficult that you wouldn’t have learned in residency. Also, maybe I was just lucky, but all 4 of my examiners were very accommodating and nice. I asked my friends and others who took the test my same cohort and they felt the same. So it doesn’t really seem these examiners are there to just pimp the crap out of you. The whole experience was actually quite anticlimactic haha. I came in there thinking they were gonna grill me and ask all these crazy follow up questions and put me in impossible situations. When actually, all situations and grab bags were very relevant to everyday practice.
 
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Resources:

Content review-
UpToDate sections on anesthesia. Honestly wish I knew about this while in residency. I use this all the time now.
UBP- just the work books. Thought they were very thorough in covering a very large range of topics. I kinda like their stems but they weren’t very realistic to the actual test. UBP stems and answers were very broad and long winded and honestly, not sure I would be doing that in real life practice. “AFOI, PAC, etc”. What I found most useful were just going over all the bullet point topics to remind myself “oh gotta review MG or how to treat LAST". I’d just read the stems and answers. Then at the end of each section, write down a blurb about each topic.
Yao and Artusio- classic but very dense. Didn’t use as much as I wanted.

Rapid review oral boards by Gupta. Easy book to follow along. I would read this a chapter or two every night or so. Pretty short book

Retired Oral board stems-
Questions and style are almost exactly what you’ll experience during the real exam. Obviously, there isn't an answer key. However, i would think that you would know what sounds like a good reasonable answer and what's totally off base. The examiners didn't seem to be too nitpicky about anything as long as it sounded reasonable and you could defend your answer.


 

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i thought getting board certified meant you got payed more? what do i know
It's the other way round. They use not being board-certified as an excuse to pay you less. Then they tie the salary raise to you passing the boards (maybe you don't, and they can keep paying you less). Nice, isn't it? 🤮
 
Again, in my mind the total cost of taking the test a second time is the fee for the exam, plus whatever time off you have to take to study again. Most places don’t pay different if BE or BC, but that would also be a factor. Whatever that comes out to, perhaps that should be the limit on what you should spend on exam prep courses.
 
I take mine in March. I was unsuccessful in negotiating a signing bonus but did get a fat $30k bonus when I pass boards so I've got a little extra motivation for this one.

For those doubting that a failed oral board exam can set you back financially .... I have a friend of a friend who could not be partner in her practice until she was board certified. She failed oral boards twice and instead of getting bumped to the $500k+ partner pay she remained at the $375k associate pay for two extra years. That's $250k she'll never get back. Many (most?) places won't let you be partner until you're BC.
 
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I take mine in March. I was unsuccessful in negotiating a signing bonus but did get a fat $30k bonus when I pass boards so I've got a little extra motivation for this one.

For those doubting that a failed oral board exam can set you back financially .... I have a friend of a friend who could not be partner in her practice until she was board certified. She failed oral boards twice and instead of getting bumped to the $500k+ partner pay she remained at the $375k associate pay for two extra years. That's $250k she'll never get back. Many (most?) places won't let you be partner until you're BC.
And many good ones will never, if you fail the orals TWICE. ;)
 
She passed on her third attempt and is now a partner.
Not surprised.

I usually find that there is no smoke without fire, even with one failed attempt.

US license/specialty board exams are relatively easy to pass.
 
I wonder what percentage of oral board examiners can do this.
One of my attendings in CV fellowship was an examiner. Later career guy, not cardiac trained, but always kept learning. He practiced getting TTE views on me at least once. Made a point to try and practice on patients with the residents too. He was likely an outlier though. Most docs in his cohort barely knew how to use US for a CVC, let alone TTE/Lung.
 
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I know that confidence is a huge deal for me when it comes to this test. I didn’t want my confidence shattered by getting crapped on by these mock examiners. I knew that if I just did what I was trained to do in residency and not freak myself out that I’d be fine. So I just got as many retired mock exams I could find on the internet and went through those on my own. What’s nice about the oral boards is that it is quite regimented. The questions all become very similar and scripted. Any “curveballs” are usually follow up questions meant to stump and fluster you. But there are a set of questions they must ask and follow and honestly, was not anything I hadn’t done before or seen before from the retired stems.
This is the right approach. I was skeptical of my former attendings and did pay for practice oral exams. Other than that, this was my approach.
 
I have valuable materials available for anesthesia boards review. These materials include Lange flash cards, Rapid Review (red book), Essential Topics, and several more. Send me a DM if you are interested. I am happy to talk about strategies for board prep too!
 

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I have valuable materials available for anesthesia boards review. These materials include Lange flash cards, Rapid Review (red book), Essential Topics, and several more. Send me a DM if you are interested. I am happy to talk about strategies for board prep too!

Valuable would be ubp
 
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Need a study partner for March 2023! Please message me if you’d like to do some practice exams.
 
how much time do people spend studying for this? 2-3 months?
Everyone needs are different. Mine got delayed due to COVID but between me and a partner, we gave or received an oral board once a week for like 4 months. Sit down book studying was looking over stuff I didn’t do, probably during my weekend coffee.
 
how much time do people spend studying for this? 2-3 months?
I think it depends how much time you can dedicate. If you’re working full time, you’re probably 2-3 months to complete reading UBP and practicing a board stem every night (there’s like 60 plus stems). If you have some time off then closer to 4-6 weeks.
 
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Everyone needs are different. Mine got delayed due to COVID but between me and a partner, we gave or received an oral board once a week for like 4 months. Sit down book studying was looking over stuff I didn’t do, probably during my weekend coffee.
In other words, a few cases once a week with your friend and some casual reading here and there over 4 months?
 
I had my oral boards during my pain fellowship a few years ago. It is very surprising how much you forget when you are out of the OR.

I had the physical UBP books and Dr. Ho's large book, the Lange flashcards, the Rapid Review book the Monsur book, and Board Stiff. Practiced with co fellows, and two people I had met on SDN for daily practice via Skype and it was excellent but I sort of just plateaued. It wasnt a knowledge issue, ITE's pretty much always 98-99th percentile. Oral practice feedback from attendings and cofellows was scattershot and now useful for finding areas to improve. I was not feeling very confident going into the exam with about a month to go. Despite nailing down an approach, I was not sure how it would go. Some things I was strong on and others were notably weaker eg liver transplant, congenital cardiac topics. Job offer lined up for me post fellowship absolutely required full board certification prior to the start date, non-negotiable.Word of mouth, dont advertise sort of job.

One of my skype practice partners felt the same and had signed up for Just Oral Boards course. I was hesitant but looked around at different prep companies as I had to pass on the first attempt for my dream job. Someone had passed along sample lectures from the most recent live Dr. Ho course and the UBP course. I watched about an hour of each and felt both were not a good fit for how I was approaching the exam. Far too detailed and lengthy responses. Residents at my anesthesiology program nearly exclusively used the Dr. Ho book or went to his course with good reviews and pretty much all passed.

Ended up joining my Skype study partner and bought the Just Oral Boards course with 24 mock exams. Payed full price, over $4000 a few years ago. Frankly, I was just expecting a more structured approach to the exam and maybe a few tough examiners. I was VERY and pleasantly surprised how tough and comprehensive it was. I really liked their approach to answering questions. Their examiners were, for the most part, very tough. I mean like sitting with a huge academic who frequently quote studies kind of tough, really tore into you strategically and is very good at identifying your weak points.

Day of the exam was nearly identical to the practice sessions, felt just like I was in one of the practice sessions both in scope, intensity, and timing. No question, I was as prepared as i could be.

Amount payed for the course was minuscule compared to not getting my dream job. Unique situation. I wrote the cost off as worth a couple days of attending work.

Someone on SDN had posted a good outline on how to study for the OSCE portion and that was quite useful. No surprises.

Passed on first attempt. I genuinely feel I more likely then not would have failed were it not for the Just Oral Boards course.

I didn't post this to shill for any company but to give an honest account of my experience. I bought pretty much any book I could get my hands on for this exam. I didn't receive a single item, session, or book for free. I received no discount, payed full price. I don't work for any company now or previously.

Though others will say courses are uncessary, in unique situations such as this, I would wholeheartedly recommend it vs a surprise fail and reattempting the exam while working as an attending.

n=1
 
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