Oral boards for ophthalmology

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Esteban Deltoro

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I found out last week that I passed the WQE. I am scheduled for the May 2025 oral boards. Trying to decide my strategy of study. Seems like OphthoGenie is the study modality of choice these days. Also all the books Pemberton, Friedman, Wills, etc. seems like Denver course better than osler too. I was going to focus on using OphthoGenie and Wills and supplement with other sources as above if needed. What do you all think of that strategy? Good or bad? Also going to try to find a buddy to study with for the test. If someone needs a study buddy please let me know. Also if someone has used OphthoGenie and passed let me know your experience. Wishing everyone good studying and good studying and passing!

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Strategy seems fine. Need to make sure you practice out loud and eventually time yourself. Wills is super helpful and Friedman is helpful to quickly review a topic. If you take a board prep the best way to get the most out of it is to come there ready and prepared. If unprepared it is a waste of money. Need to be able to practice. Have a system for how to approach the questions. Study as much as you need to depending on your strengths and weaknesses with oral test taking. Don't listen to people who tell you to wing it 😉
 
Looks like the oral boards are in May. The ABO website says May 2-3, 2025. Only two days? Not Sunday, May 4th? Or a typo?

Is Colorado not offering a mock oral exam? The San Antonio course in February or March as a short course, more like a preview than a course. Osler of course.
 
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Looks like the oral boards are in May. The ABO website says May 2-3, 2025. Only two days? Not Sunday, May 4th? Or a typo?

Is Colorado not offering a mock oral exam? The San Antonio course in February or March as a short course, more like a preview than a course. Osler of course.
Gonio, I'm registered for the 5/3 session. It's only 5/2 and 5/3.

I looked for the Colorado course earlier this year but could not find any info
 
Well took the exam this weekend and it was awful.. Multiple diagnoses I could not hit. Optics felt the worst. I felt bad after the written exam but this was just devastation..
 
Well took the exam this weekend and it was awful.. Multiple diagnoses I could not hit. Optics felt the worst. I felt bad after the written exam but this was just devastation..
I feel you. Same here. I felt the questions were super unfair. Also, so much for the presentation style the ABO recommended that none of their examiners respected. Do you know other people who felt the same way, or are we the only two people. Perhaps if more people felt the same they would throw out some of these vague questions.
 
I feel you. Same here. I felt the questions were super unfair. Also, so much for the presentation style the ABO recommended that none of their examiners respected. Do you know other people who felt the same way, or are we the only two people. Perhaps if more people felt the same they would throw out some of these vague questions.
There’s 3 of us at least. It was so far from what I expected it felt like taking the wrong test. I was expecting talking through routine cases and ruling out life/vision threatening conditions. It does feel like they changed some things this time because that format was unexpected and IMO inconsistent with the their sample cases. I let them know on the survey and hope others do the same.
 
We all did, I had practiced the presentation style of loma Linda and Pemberton , then when the ABO sent the email saying that was against what the ABO recommended I switched completely. Some cases I wasn’t even able to say a differential which was frustrating because I either got interrupted mid way or they would move forward with another case, in some cases things were moving too fast and in others I was stalled, missed some diagnoses for sure and wasn’t able to finish a section. I have talked to my close residents and people I know and everyone feels completely devastated . The problem is they also say they each test is individual, meaning they don’t compare our performances with anyone’s else.
 
This seems to be the general sentiment after speaking with ~a dozen people. I would be really curious to hear from someone who was a repeat exam taker this year
 
We all did, I had practiced the presentation style of loma Linda and Pemberton , then when the ABO sent the email saying that was against what the ABO recommended I switched completely. Some cases I wasn’t even able to say a differential which was frustrating because I either got interrupted mid way or they would move forward with another case, in some cases things were moving too fast and in others I was stalled, missed some diagnoses for sure and wasn’t able to finish a section. I have talked to my close residents and people I know and everyone feels completely devastated . The problem is they also say they each test is individual, meaning they don’t compare our performances with anyone’s else.
Thats the horse **** that I have thought all along. Why is this exam not formatted like the USMLE step 3 Clinical Skills cases. Offer it at a Pearson Vue testing center. Allow us time to write the responses to the cases or use AI, because AI will not be biased and will not run the cases differently for different candidates. This BS about lack of bias and the built in psychometrics. There is no such thing as a psychometric that will guarantee that this test is administered similarly for every single candidate. Each one of these examiners were clearly doing their own thing. There was no consensus here. Also, why are you recording the test and then deleting the videos once the results are issued. Sounds suspect to me. What are you scared of. The problem is that these boards never have groups of people questioning the BS that they are getting away with. I think if a lot of us see this post and feel the same way we should organize and get one law firm to represent us similar to the law firm that the residents in California used to organize against oppressive hospitals and residencies programs and organizations such as the ABO who think they can get a way with doing whatever they want.

People don't know that not being board certified means not being able to get hospital affiliations, which, in my state all ambulatory surgical centers will not in turn give you surgical privileges unless you are affiliated with a hospital. Thus, essentially, in one fell swoop ending your surgical career. Also, there are many payor panels now that you can't get on unless you are board certified. The board clearly knows this. They know that this is an achilles heal and they are milking this.

Please respond and share your thoughts if we should organize against the board to stop them from pulling these discriminatory practices.

Don't tell us the exam follows this format that none of your examiners respected, and don't tell us don't take courses when you are clearly presenting cases that only a fellowship trained specialist knows how to answer. If you want to do separate subspecialty certifications for fellow trained specialists, so be it. Do that! These are supposed to be questions that a comprehensive ophthalmologist should be able to answer with the training they received in residency not a fellowship, and all I can say is that at least 8 of the questions on the exam are not easily answered unless you did some specialized fellowship training to know about these management practices. Also, the board should know that many of current residency program don't do a good job with teaching subjects like optics. So, the ones that should be penalized is not the poor doctors taking the test. Its those deficient residency programs that screwed their resident chances over.

It's about damn time we stand for ourselves against this tyrannical system. We have come this far. We passed their written qualifier. Are we really going to be deprived of the prize after all the blood, sweat and tears. I say heck no!!!
 
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Thats the horse **** that I have thought all along. Why is this exam not formatted like the USMLE step 3 Clinical Skills cases. Offer it at a Pearson Vue testing center. Allow us time to write the responses to the cases or use AI, because AI will not be biased and will not run the cases differently for different candidates. This BS about lack of bias and the built in psychometrics. There is no such thing as a psychometric that will guarantee that this test is administered similarly for every single candidate. Each one of these examiners were clearly doing their own thing. There was no consensus here. Also, why are you recording the test and then deleting the videos once the results are issued. Sounds suspect to me. What are you scared of. The problem is that these boards never have groups of people questioning the BS that they are getting away with. I think if a lot of us see this post and feel the same way we should organize and get one law firm to represent us similar to the law firm that the residents in California used to organize against oppressive hospitals and residencies programs and organizations such as the ABO who think they can get a way with doing whatever they want.

People don't know that not being board certified means not being able to get hospital affiliations, which, in my state all ambulatory surgical centers will not in turn give you surgical privileges unless you are affiliated with a hospital. Thus, essentially, in one fell swoop ending your surgical career. Also, there are many payor panels now that you can't get on unless you are board certified. The board clearly knows this. They know that this is an achilles heal and they are milking this.

Please respond and share your thoughts if we should organize against the board to stop them from pulling these discriminatory practices.

Don't tell us the exam follows this format that none of your examiners respected, and don't tell us don't take courses when you are clearly presenting cases that only a fellowship trained specialist knows how to answer. If you want to do separate subspecialty certifications for fellow trained specialists, so be it. Do that! These are supposed to be questions that a comprehensive ophthalmologist should be able to answer with the training they received in residency not a fellowship, and all I can say is that at least 8 of the questions on the exam are not easily answered unless you did some specialized fellowship training to know about these management practices. Also, the board should know that many of current residency program don't do a good job with teaching subjects like optics. So, the ones that should be penalized is not the poor doctors taking the test. Its those deficient residency programs that screwed their resident chances over.

It's about damn time we stand for ourselves against this tyrannical system. We have come this far. We passed their written qualifier. Are we really going to be deprived of the prize after all the blood, sweat and tears. I say heck no!!!
Sorry to hear about the exam. I took it and passed during the current pandemic era (pandemic=2020-present) but not this year.

Suing the ABO is a losing proposition because the ABO has nearly unlimited funding. All it has to do to pay attorneys is raise the exam fee to $4000 and Continuing Certification fees to $1000 per year, if necessary. The only limit is if Congress gets involved if the exam fees become $10,000 and yearly fees $10,000. The courts will defer to the "experts", which is the ABO/ABMS. Even the class action cardiologist lawsuit against the ABIM is not getting anywhere. The lawyers get a huge windfall, as is common with class action lawsuits.

That said, I am not in favor of the current system. It looks like the ABO discourages taking course preparation. Orally, they have said it's not necessary. It is necessary unless you like to take risks. It is also doubly necessary because of the high stakes of the exam with passing required by hospitals and insurance companies. I took the Osler course and one instructor did say to mention the differential later, not early on so the accusation that courses are wrong is wrong. Colorado also has a course but it may have been discontinued last year.

As far as examiners not following the format, on one hand that allows some freedom to skirt small facts that you are unsure of; at least I did. On the other hand, I feel that one examiner was overbearing and not a good examiner. I will not name him but if I were a panel leader, I would not want that examiner.

I believe the ABO knows that board certification is, in practice, required for many situations but they have written (maybe it was a letter?) that diplomates want a hard to pass exam followed by not too hard recertification. In contrast, family medicine has an easier exam and no orals but the recertification exam is on the same level as the initial exam and family medicine quarterly questions are kind of hard. At least some ABO members rightfully believe that as one gets older, one loses the ability to pass the initial ABO exams. Some specialties do have a very high pass rate and, probably, an easier exam.

I would wait and see what the oral results are. If a retake is needed, I would study at the level of the sub-specialist. One thing is certain and that is the knowledge required to pass the exam is more than the knowledge needed to see everyday patients. I display my certificate with pride and anguish. It took more work to get than the residency certificate or the MD degree. I do not believe people who claimed they just studied for a few days then walked in.
 
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I took the oral boards in October 2023 and failed. I was in the middle of a divorce and had a very young child at the time, and I did not prepare properly.

This year I approached it very differently. I studied for a few months, usually an hour or two each evening. I went through all of the ophthoquestions video cases twice, did their oral board review questions twice, and completed the full set of ophthogenie cases twice. I felt much more prepared.

Compared to 2023, the exam this year felt the same to me. The examiners behaved the same way, the case difficulty was similar, and the structure was familiar. The only thing that changed was my preparation. This time, there were no cases that completely stumped me. I had a solid differential and plan for every case. Sometimes I was asked “Is there anything else you would do?” or “Anything else on your differential?” so maybe I wasn't hitting exactly what they were looking for, but I did at least have a reasonable differential and plan for each case this time. That was not true for me last time.

I noticed that the examiners often moved me along quickly, sometimes even while I was in the middle of outlining my plan. I do not think this is a bad sign at all. Quite the opposite. If you are clearly lost or sitting in silence, then yes, they are probably moving on because it is a fail for that case and there is no point wasting time. But if you are mid-sentence or clearly on the right track and they move on, I believe it means they are satisfied, marked it as a pass, and want to get to the next case to give you more opportunities to score points. I think that is in your favor.

Obviously I have no idea if I passed yet, but I left this exam feeling much better than I did before. Maybe that's enough? I'm not sure. I guess I'll find out in 8 weeks.
 
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I had a solid differential and plan for every case. Sometimes I was asked “Is there anything else you would do?” or “Anything else on your differential?” so maybe I wasn't hitting exactly what they were looking for, but I did at least have a reasonable differential and plan for each case this time. That was not true for me last time.

I noticed that the examiners often moved me along quickly, sometimes even while I was in the middle of outlining my plan. I do not think this is a bad sign at all. Quite the opposite. If you are clearly lost or sitting in silence, then yes, they are probably moving on because it is a fail for that case and there is no point wasting time. But if you are mid-sentence or clearly on the right track and they move on, I believe it means they are satisfied, marked it as a pass, and want to get to the next case to give you more opportunities to score points. I think that is in your favor.
The exam is so traumatic that I still think about it!

I remember one question that I had 4 good differentials but, in retrospect, did not think about the 5th differential, which was the answer. The examiner, who was from Indiana, did not ask "anything else on your differential?" but I could tell that I was missing it. They eventually moved on after I incorrectly treated the patient but the treatment was correct for one of conditions on the differential.
 
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The exam is so traumatic that I still think about it!

I remember one question that I had 4 good differentials but, in retrospect, did not think about the 5th differential, which was the answer. The examiner, who was from Indiana, did not ask "anything else on your differential?" but I could tell that I was missing it. They eventually moved on after I incorrectly treated the patient but the treatment was correct for one of conditions on the differential.
I know exactly what you mean. I had a case of granulomatous uveitis. I gave a reasonable differential that included infectious and inflammatory etiologies. I also stated what testing I would order to rule in a diagnosis and perhaps most importantly rule out an infectious etiology. They did not give me the results of any testing and just said "so what would you do for this patient?"

Well...I'd like to see the results of the testing. But no answers were provided. Just "how would you treat this patient based on your leading differential diagnosis?"

Hopefully they weren't baiting me 😀
 
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