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DOCMagic85
Do you all think its fair that oral surgeons make much more on average than general surgeons? With their cash cow procedures they make a ton.
Do you all think its fair that oral surgeons make much more on average than general surgeons? With their cash cow procedures they make a ton.
Do you all think its fair that oral surgeons make much more on average than general surgeons? With their cash cow procedures they make a ton.
Do you all think its fair that oral surgeons make much more on average than general surgeons? With their cash cow procedures they make a ton.
After the relief of pain I got from having my wisdom teeth pulled, oral surgeons can make as much as they want as far as I'm concerned.
Do you all think its fair that oral surgeons make much more on average than general surgeons? With their cash cow procedures they make a ton.
I'm surprised to hear that since that's at odds with published salary information that I've seen. I've actually heard that it's more like $200K.
he has extraordinary talent.. we can teach anybody to do what you do.. so who is the shmuck?
oral surgery is a great money making field... they make more because there are less of them.. avg they prolly make in the 600 range
In between lies the truth. 200k is near the mean for practice-owning general dentists (if ADA surveys are to be believed), and 350 or so on average for oral surgeons.I'm surprised to hear that since that's at odds with published salary information that I've seen. I've actually heard that it's more like $200K.
I'm surprised to hear that since that's at odds with published salary information that I've seen. I've actually heard that it's more like $200K.
Yup. He may be thinking OMFS or whatever the huge 6 year program is where you can earn an MD and such. The oral surgeon I know -took out my wisdom teeth - seemed really unhappy and really didn't seem like he was making a half million a year. I also don't think there are 'few' oral surgeons. Maybe not though ... really doesn't seem all that different than getting MD/DO and doing ENT or Uro ... comparable lenght of residency, comparable salary (also not yanking wisdom teeth day in and out). Probably different in mal practice, overhead etc. Isn't it very competitive to land an oral surgery residency too?? It seems like you'd need the same drive and skill as landing a specialized surgery residency.
Note that the 6 year MD linked OMFS programs and the 4 year DDS only OMFS programs have literally no difference in scope of practice after graduation. The only difference is the letters.
The major difference between ENT and OMFS is the "bread and butter" procedures: ENT it's tubes and tonsils, OMFS it's teeth and titanium (dental implants). For academic OMFS the procedural scope is very similar to ENT (Ablative cancer, microvascular recon, craniofacial, pan-facial trauma, facial cosmetics, and orthognathics).
Interesting.
Although not nearly as interesting as the phallic shaped thing in your avatar!
Finally someone gets my avatar.
One of the seniors at my school is making a mock business plan for an oral surgery private practice, and his findings from surveying the part-timers at our school and private practice oral surgeons is that clearing $265,000 the first year after you open a practice straight out of residency would be a conservative salary estimate.
The math looks good though if you're a straight private practice OMFS. A case of impacted wisdom teeth with IV conscious sedation runs in the $2200-3000 range depending on location, and a surgeon with a few years of experience can easily manage 2/hour. Do the math on that and you can see how easily things can get crazy.
So $2200-3000 *2 an hour?? How many hours a day?? Doesn't seem reasonable that you could work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, clearing 80 patients and keep this up for long. Where do the patients come from??? My brother and I got our wisdom teeth out from the same doc, he works in nice area, doesn't seem like too much competition and there is no WAY in the world this guy was doing that many surgeries. Seems like he spent most of his time consulting.
Also, my question is ... considering all this, how competitive is it to land a 4 year Oral Surg residency (for example)?? I mean professions like plastic surg and derm have huge, huge potential (as you were saying with the oral surg field -which by the way, I'm not doubting) but landing a derm residency or integrated PRS requires you to be top of class, perfect board scores, research, LORs, etc. Is this the same for oral??
As far as competitiveness, OMFS is probably the 2nd most competitive specialty in dentistry next to orthodontics. 4 year programs actually tend to be more competitive than 6 year programs because there are less of them and a majority of applicants tend to favor them (most likely because of the lesser time commitment and the fact that there is little to no financial benefit to obtaining an MD). General guidelines for acceptance are top 10% of the class and above a 90 on the part 1 dental board. Externships at various OMFS programs is a must as are good LORs, but research probably isn't as important as it is for PRS, derm or orthodontics.
6 year OMFS is harder to get into than 4 yr OMFS because you need to meet medical school requirements. Medical schools reject applicants who they don't feel will make it through med school, USMLE, etc. Thats the reason why more 6 year programs go unmatched, not because its easier but because requirements for acceptance is much stiffer than the 4 year programs.
Well I guess managed care hasnt taken over dentistry like it has medicine, so oral surgeons can charge a fee for their services and actually get paid for it.
After the relief of pain I got from having my wisdom teeth pulled, oral surgeons can make as much as they want as far as I'm concerned.
Medicine is everyone's God-given entitlement, no matter how poorly you take care of yourself or how little you're willing to spend for it. We all know that. Dentistry, on the other hand, is still an expendable luxury...or at least, that's what the politicians think. If it means the difference between getting paid for what I do and giving half my care away for free, I'm happy to be marginalized that way.What about the relief you would feel from having your life-threatening appendicitis taken care of?
Oral surgeons spend roughly the same amount of time training as surgeons (4 yrs. dental school, 4-6 yrs. residency), although perhaps less rigorous.
Obviously has not talked to a OMFS resident. We are not governed by the 80hr week rule, nor does any self respecting OMFS resident abide by them if they applied to us.
I am not in anyway dismissing or bashing my sister services. I just get rubbed the wrong way when med students are always quick to point out that us "dental" guys' training is not as rigorous as some of the medical subspecialties. We all have a niche and every department is well respected in their own right.
Kim, I bet the answer is the way OMFS fellows are trained. They graduate dental school, match into oral surgery, and spend their PGY-1 year in the hospital (scary, since they haven't done a single medical clerkship at that point!). At Columbia the majority of the internship is in anesthesia.
PGY-2 and PGY-3 years are spent in the second and third years of medical school, respectively, after which they earn an MD.
PGY-4 and PGY-5 are in the hospital as full oral surgery residents, training exclusively in that field (with the usual off-service rotations).
So if Shabu is indeed an OMFS fellow, he could be PGY2/3 and sitting in med school lectures right now, earning that MD.
Kim, I bet the answer is the way OMFS fellows are trained. They graduate dental school, match into oral surgery, and spend their PGY-1 year in the hospital (scary, since they haven't done a single medical clerkship at that point!).
BD, a word of caution about how much you think you know about OMFS training, as opposed to how much you do know. Describing a residency program a year at a time, with an institutional n of 1, represents a very superficial understanding of any given specialty's training. I don't want to argue your opinions with you; they're yours and you're entitled to them. Just be wary of overestimating your knowledge of an oral & maxillofacial surgeon's education.Kim, I bet the answer is the way OMFS fellows are trained. They graduate dental school, match into oral surgery, and spend their PGY-1 year in the hospital (scary, since they haven't done a single medical clerkship at that point!). At Columbia the majority of the internship is in anesthesia.
PGY-2 and PGY-3 years are spent in the second and third years of medical school, respectively, after which they earn an MD.
PGY-4 and PGY-5 are in the hospital as full oral surgery residents, training exclusively in that field (with the usual off-service rotations).
So if Shabu is indeed an OMFS fellow, he could be PGY2/3 and sitting in med school lectures right now, earning that MD.
lolAfter the relief of pain I got from having my wisdom teeth pulled, oral surgeons can make as much as they want as far as I'm concerned.