Pikeyman

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Does anyone know where I can find a list of Oral Surgery Programs in the US?
Thanks.
 
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Pikeyman

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I'm sure this question has come up before but what schools are known for their Oral Surgery programs?

When it says "OMS-4 YR-MD OPTNL", does that mean that you can get a MD in 4 years if you decide to go for it?

How is Case Western Reserve University's Oral Surgery program? I believe they have a 5-year MD program (instead of 6) but I wasn't sure if Case had a good OS program to begin.

Thank you, in advance, for all your feedbacks.
 

rahmed

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Pikeyman said:
I'm sure this question has come up before but what schools are known for their Oral Surgery programs?

When it says "OMS-4 YR-MD OPTNL", does that mean that you can get a MD in 4 years if you decide to go for it?

How is Case Western Reserve University's Oral Surgery program? I believe they have a 5-year MD program (instead of 6) but I wasn't sure if Case had a good OS program to begin.

Thank you, in advance, for all your feedbacks.
Means another 2 years for MD if you opt for it. Somewhere in this forum there is a league table of oral surgical programs in US. Sorry can't remember the thread.

rahmed
 

KY2007

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If you go to a 4 year with a M.D. option, make sure you don't take the option. You won't be able to get licensed with the M.D. If you want to get an M.D. go to a program that is integrated.
 

ucd

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Why is that? Why wouldn't the optional route give you the MD?
 

toofache32

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KY2007 said:
If you go to a 4 year with a M.D. option, make sure you don't take the option. You won't be able to get licensed with the M.D. If you want to get an M.D. go to a program that is integrated.
You can get licensed, but you have to do another year as a 1st-year general surgery resident (or medicine resident) after your MD. This is to qualify you to take Step 3 of the medical boards, which is the last step to getting a license. This year is already integrated into the 6-year programs.
 

oms fan

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In Nevada, you can practice OMS with the medical license only. You don't need a dental license. This is not commonplace, however. The majority of OMS guys practice with the dental...
 

ucd

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so basically, optional md programs are 7 yrs? vs the integrated 6 yr??
 

OzDDS

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toofache32 said:
You can get licensed, but you have to do another year as a 1st-year general surgery resident (or medicine resident) after your MD. This is to qualify you to take Step 3 of the medical boards, which is the last step to getting a license. This year is already integrated into the 6-year programs.
what MD general surgery residency will want you to come in and take a residency spot just to have you drop out after 1 year? How would you apply for something like that?

hypothetically.. If you have no dental license, but you say do this 1-year of a general surgery residency and take step 3 and get your medical degree licensed. I still don't understand how that will allow you to practice a very specialized surgical specialty like OMS when not only is it not an AGME listed speciality It's a Dental not medical specialty. How does a med degree, license, and a 1-year gen surg dropout allow you to practice OMS. Sorry, just a bit confused. :confused:
 

ajmacgregor

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OzDDS said:
what MD general surgery residency will want you to come in and take a residency spot just to have you drop out after 1 year? How would you apply for something like that?
The point is that you need a minimum one year of ACGME accredited training in order to be eligible for a medical license. Otherswise you won't be allowed to advertise your MD degree - as seen with the OMFS guys who got their MDs in Antigua.

Also - you wouldn't match into a general surgery categorical spot. You would do a preliminary year. Preliminary spots are only for 1 year. Categorical spots match you into the full length of the training program (e.g. 5 years for general surgery).

Incidentally - I believe that if you went to a 4+2 MD program, you wouldn't even have to do your ACGME year in general surgery. If you're only doing it to be eligible for a medical licence, you could, presumably, do a preliminary year in internal medicine.
 

OzDDS

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ajmacgregor said:
The point is that you need a minimum one year of ACGME accredited training in order to be eligible for a medical license. Otherswise you won't be allowed to advertise your MD degree - as seen with the OMFS guys who got their MDs in Antigua.

Also - you wouldn't match into a general surgery categorical spot. You would do a preliminary year. Preliminary spots are only for 1 year. Categorical spots match you into the full length of the training program (e.g. 5 years for general surgery).

Incidentally - I believe that if you went to a 4+2 MD program, you wouldn't even have to do your ACGME year in general surgery. If you're only doing it to be eligible for a medical licence, you could, presumably, do a preliminary year in internal medicine.

But even still.. if you had a med license but no dental license, and no ACGME specialty training. How could you be licensed to practice OMS (a dental surgical specialty) off of your med license. It would seem just as wrong to advertise oneself as a dentist or dental specialtist with no dental license as it would for you to advertise yourself as a physcian with no med license. Doesn't it work both ways?
 

ajmacgregor

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OzDDS said:
But even still.. if you had a med license but no dental license, and no ACGME specialty training. How could you be licensed to practice OMS (a dental surgical specialty) off of your med license. It would seem just as wrong to advertise oneself as a dentist or dental specialtist with no dental license as it would for you to advertise yourself as a physcian with no med license. Doesn't it work both ways?
I think you're missing a BIG point here. Most, if not all, OMFS residents have dental licenses, given that they took the NERB, WREB, etc. likely during their fourth year of dental school. The only point for getting ACGME training is to have a valid medical license. Otherwise, why even do the MD?
 

OzDDS

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ajmacgregor said:
I think you're missing a BIG point here. Most, if not all, OMFS residents have dental licenses, given that they took the NERB, WREB, etc. likely during their fourth year of dental school. The only point for getting ACGME training is to have a valid medical license. Otherwise, why even do the MD?
Ok. Just going on the presumption that theortically you could have a dent and med degrees, but only a med license. Such as in Nevada. Just trying to understand how that would work.
 

Energon

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From what I understand, the dental license is more important. A lot of the DMD MD's dont even renew their medical license's. However, if one does want to do the MD, then completion of the PGY1 General surgery is pretty important (or else you are just wasting your time).
Also, the integrated programs require you to do a PGY1 in general surgery doing it in internal medicine is not really an option. However, if you were to do the MD after completion of the OS residency, then i guess you could do the intern year in anything. Getting a prelim spot to do the PGY1 GS is not really a hard thing if one was to do an MD on their own. One of our part time attendings was a practicing single degree oral surgeon for almost 10 years before he went back and completed MS3&4 after which he did GS for 3 yrs prior to matching into a PRS residency. He now does both OMFS as well as a lot of craniofacial PRS.... so yea the opportunities are there if you want.

If I do OS I hope to God i match into a 4yr program.
 

oms fan

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If I do OS I hope to God i match into a 4yr program.
Just curious...are you going to apply to both 4 and 6 yr programs or just the 4's?
 

Energon

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I am most definitely doing a year of GPR. After that if I am still interested in OMFS, I will apply to both 4 and 6. Most of my friends in OS have discouraged me from applying to just one type of program. One of the seniors i know who just matched wanted only 4 yr programs. He applied to a multitude of 4 yr programs and one six year program. The poor guy matched at the 6yr program. Basically, beggars cant be choosers... I guess I will apply all over the palce and keep my fingers crossed.
 
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I think that there is an up and coming program that most users don't know about/haven't had much exposure to: Case Western. Historically a good program but not one of the powerhouses due to lack of heavy trauma, but now that they have incorporated Metro, they will quickly become one of the better programs in the country.

--Only 5 yrs (can do fellowship 6th year if desired)
--Only 12 months of med school (3rd year rotations only!!)--top 25 med school--can complete rotations at UH, cleveland clinic, or metro.
--Only 9 months of Gen Surg (3 mo plastics, 2 ENT, 1 NSG, 1 trauma, 1 SICU, 1PEDs,)
--34 months on OMS Service
--Metro is level I trauma--one of the busiest trauma centers in the US (lots of gunshot wounds, panfacials, etc)
--Lots of pathology, TMJ, and reconstruction. Dr. Baur did a cancer fellowship at Michigan and does malignant and benign tumors. Enough to be comfortable doing anything in private practice and to get familiar enough for fellowship if interested, but not bogged down doing only cancer like some of the big cancer programs.
--Case already does lots of cosmetics (Dr. Quereshy is cosmetics fellowship trained- one of the few programs where the residents will be doing their own resident cosmetic cases ie: face lifts, blephs, lipo, brow lift, platysmaplasty, botox, restylane etc)
--Tons of implants (Interns placing 50-100 implants first year--total of 300-500 by end--also lots of grafts, sinus lifts, etc.--don't believe it when people say if you can do trauma/reconstruction you can do implants--it takes about 50-100 before you realize your mistakes and you don't want that learning curve to happen in practice)

--Residents cut 100% of every case (including cancer, reconstruction, cosmetics, orthognathics, etc)
--strong anesthesia experience, 5 months, treated like anesthesia resident
--Three new full time attendings at Metro.
--Three faculty that sit on ABOMS board -- good prep for boards.

Case covers Metro, Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, and the Cleveland VA. Pretty much every big case going through northern Ohio and the surrounding area goes through that program now.

All the benefits of a six year program without the extra year of Med school, or even worse and extra year of gen surg, in only 5 years. With broad scope, big case load, residents are happy and get along with each other and attendings, by far one of the best programs in country.