Organic before General Chem??

[S_R_N83]

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Hey,

I'm starting my pre reqs for pre pharm this coming fall, but at a college that doesn't offer the pre pharm program. ( I'm just taking the pre req's and not fulfilling the school's requirements since I am not looking to earn a degree from them.)

I got my schedule for my first semester and I have Organic Chem. I asked why I would have it before General Chem , and I was told that's just how they do it there. Is this going to be a huge problem, and more difficult for me, or do these classes not relate to each other at all?

I contacted WVU School of Pharmacy, where I plan on attending, and they said that they do not reccommend that I take Orgo before General.

Any comments?

Thanks!

 

[elmoz]

If that is the way they do it at your school, then they probably have it built in to teach you the information you need to know for Ochem that you would've had in general chem. From what I can remember, the two classes are completely different other than the basic facts of chemistry (electron pairing, acid/base, periodic table trends, etc.)

 

[aubieRx]

I think its odd they would give you o chem first because a small bit of that general chemistry really helps you understand o chem..the lewis dot structures is the thing that pops to mind first

 

[S_R_N83]

Yes, I was surprised too. Hopefully since they do it that way, what I need to know from gen chem will be built in, but I still find it odd.

 

[aubieRx]

yeah they probably just decided to try something different as far as the order the courses are taken. And while unusual, it certainly isnt impossible

Did WVU say they would accept their organic chem course?

 

[S_R_N83]

Yes, I called down there, and asked. They told me it would. I also found on their website where you can type in your school and see what classes transfer to WVU. It was pretty helpful.

It's kind of funny how organic chem. is going to be my first college class there Monday morning bright and early at 8:00 Am. M, W, F With a 3 hour lab on Wed also. It should be a blast 😱

 

[DownonthePharm]

Thats backwards from how most school teach it, but I think its because most students need to be a little more "academically mature" before they take O-chem than general chem.

 

[KUMoose]

Wow, I guess I'm just not that advanced. The pieces and parts that really helped with O-Chem for me were:

Lewis dot structure
Acid/Base understanding (what constitutes a lewis acid/base etc)
And rates of reactions, because well my professor was fun, by psychotic about that stuff. 😉
Molecular Orbit Theory
Bonding angles (and psycho prof)

Now I'm not sure how your school teaches Organic Chem, but I *HIGHLY* recommend getting the book 'Pushing Electrons'. It was a short read (roughly 60 pages) and really provided a solid ground work for why certain reactions happen the way they do.

Just out of curiosity, did you talk to a teacher/dean of the department or a counselor?

 

[S_R_N83]

down...I thought the exact same thing about having to be more "academically mature" to take organic over general since orgo was known to be one of the tougher classes.

ku...I will definately look into getting that book. Anything that is going to help me, I would definately like to have.
I am going to email the head of the chemistry dept. here in a little bit. I'm going to see what the reasons are why they do it this way. Hopefully I'll actually get some real answers.

 

[twester]

I have a friend who did the chemistry series that way - O-chem first. It didn't seem to hamper her performance in either class. She got A's. It's kinda strange, but you should be alright. There are almost no calculations in O-chem and Gen Chem is mostly all calculation.

Troy

 

[S_R_N83]

Twester.. Do you know if they either taught the background that she needed to know from general chem in organic chem, or did they just assume she knew it?

 

[RLK]

Twester.. Do you know if they either taught the background that she needed to know from general chem in organic chem, or did they just assume she knew it?

Is WVU's pharmacy school hard to get into? Do you know if they require the PCAT? I don't live that far away from WVU, but I keep forgetting it's there.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Some other stuff from Gen Chem that helped me with Organic:

VSEPR
Polarity
Ka/pKa

We have had a lot of stoichiometry calculations in our Orgo lab: equivalents, limiting reagent, theo yield. Also had to write REDOX equations for a lot of reactions.

To the OP: I'd recommend Schaum's Outline of General, Organic and Biological Chemistry. It's on amazon.com

Good luck!
Sarah

 

[S_R_N83]

Is WVU's pharmacy school hard to get into? Do you know if they require the PCAT? I don't live that far away from WVU, but I keep forgetting it's there.

yes, they require the PCAT. It's pretty competitive to get in there. On their website they have the GPA and PCAT scores that were admitted in the past few years. I believe its about 80 a year admitted. I'm not sure

I see you have a Steelers logo as your avatar..Do you live close to Pittsburgh? I'm about 40 mins. away.

Sarah, thanks for the info. It looks like a lot of people did use things from general chem for organic. I'm waiting on to see what a professor says as to what the reason is. I'll also check that book on amazon. Thanks!

 

[twester]

Twester.. Do you know if they either taught the background that she needed to know from general chem in organic chem, or did they just assume she knew it?

No, Gen Chem was a prerequisite for O-chem for my friend (but she either didn't care or (most likely) wasn't paying attention 🙂 ). So there was no review of concepts or anything. If you had high school chemistry or if you do a little self-study crash course before school starts, you'll be fine.

Troy

 

[S_R_N83]

What school do you go to where they choose the classes that you are going to take? Do you not have any choice in what classes you will take for the semester?

Where I went to school, you chose your own classes...your own schedule. As long as you had the prerequs you could take any class you wanted (assuming you could get your advisor to sign it).

Well they have class sequences that they call tracks. In the chemistry track they have organic before general chem. I guess thats just how they do it there. I could probably see if I could take general before like you said, its my choice...or so I think it is... 😱

 

[S_R_N83]

Well incase anyone still cares, I got a reply from a Chem prof. and here's what he said:

"Yes, the inverted order will work for you in a two year program. The Order is Organic I, General I , General II, Organic II. The content of the first organic course will introduce the basics of chemistry. just as a general chemistry course would. Then the general course continues with inorganic chemistry and physical behaviors of compounds. You finish with a more detailed look at organic reactions. "

I find that order very interesting, but o well that's what I have to follow.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Thanks for the update and good luck with your classes!