organic...

[Beccalyn]

Seeing as you all had to have taken the course to get where you're at now..I
thought this would be the best crowd to ask,

I'm in organic chem now, and did terrible on my first exam. I studied so
much..doing practice problems, and sample exams..you name it..and I really felt
confident, not cocky though, going into the exam. I must be doing something
wrong, maybe i'm concetrating on outlining too much..I don't know...my TA for
the class is one of those..I sit there and absorb it kind of guys, where I'm
one of those do it over and over till I'm blue in the face to understand it
type of girls. How where you guys successful in the course??

thank you so much,
Becca

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[Cobragirl]

Try not to berate yourself too much....Organic is just one of those courses that is hard on almost everyone. Yes, there will be someone in your class that will seem to breeze through the tests but, believe me, MOST people, struggle with the course. I've gone to three different schools and in each the average test scores were around 50-60%!!! Organic usually has a HUGE grade curve. If it makes you feel any better, I have a very good GPA and the only reason it's not a 3.95 - 4.0 is because I got two C's in a row in Organic. You will also hear many people (probably on this board) tell you that C's in Organic will kill your chances of getting into med-school. I don't believe this to be true, as long as you make you make up for them in other classes / activities. While I haven't been accepted anywhere yet, I have received an interview (Nov 10th), and expect more when my MCAT scores arrive, despite my lackluster Organic (and Gen Chem) grades. Of course, I'm sure I'll have to explain them to the interview committee, but even that situation is easily handled if you are prepared with a logical explanation that doesn't pass blame. In my case, I had to explain it to my pre-med committee...to whom I explained that I had never had chemistry in high school and was quite proud of the fact that I actually PASSED Organic the first time...when many of my classmates did not!!!

The pre-med committee was very impressed with the answer and said that it would go over great with any interviewing committee! Now this doesn't mean that you can go to an interview committee with a 3.0 GPA AND C's in Organic...that probably wouldn't fly, but as long as you keep the rest of your application strong (and ROCK the MCAT) you should be fine, even if you don't do so well in Organic! Good Luck!

PS- I also took Biochemistry and made sure to get an "A" so that I could prove that Chemistry wasn't necessarily a weak spot!!

 

[Beccalyn]

That is awesome for you..to use that as your "reason" but I did have chemistry in HS and got A's, we actually covered more in HS than I did last year in gen cem 1(not the second part), I actually took gen cem 1 twice, going from a low D to a C+, and then took the 2nd cem this past summer getting a C+, but I felt like I learned a great deal. I go to a big school and basically they throw you in a room lecture to you..and expect you to retain it...and all that for just 1,000 bucks..what a deal right? I guess I wanted this year to really stick out grade wise, for them to see my freshman grades..and then to see my soph grades and to be like " whoa..big improvement" Someone told me that med schools, (well at least MSU"s med schools they said) only look say if you retook the course, they only look at the most recent retake. I go to MSu, and if you retake a course it is deleted from your gpa, and the new score is replaced, (even if you did worse, tough luck)
thanks again..

Originally posted by Cobragirl:
Try not to berate yourself too much....Organic is just one of those courses that is hard on almost everyone. Yes, there will be someone in your class that will seem to breeze through the tests but, believe me, MOST people, struggle with the course. I've gone to three different schools and in each the average test scores were around 50-60%!!! Organic usually has a HUGE grade curve. If it makes you feel any better, I have a very good GPA and the only reason it's not a 3.95 - 4.0 is because I got two C's in a row in Organic. You will also hear many people (probably on this board) tell you that C's in Organic will kill your chances of getting into med-school. I don't believe this to be true, as long as you make you make up for them in other classes / activities. While I haven't been accepted anywhere yet, I have received an interview (Nov 10th), and expect more when my MCAT scores arrive, despite my lackluster Organic (and Gen Chem) grades. Of course, I'm sure I'll have to explain them to the interview committee, but even that situation is easily handled if you are prepared with a logical explanation that doesn't pass blame. In my case, I had to explain it to my pre-med committee...to whom I explained that I had never had chemistry in high school and was quite proud of the fact that I actually PASSED Organic the first time...when many of my classmates did not!!!

The pre-med committee was very impressed with the answer and said that it would go over great with any interviewing committee! Now this doesn't mean that you can go to an interview committee with a 3.0 GPA AND C's in Organic...that probably wouldn't fly, but as long as you keep the rest of your application strong (and ROCK the MCAT) you should be fine, even if you don't do so well in Organic! Good Luck!

PS- I also took Biochemistry and made sure to get an "A" so that I could prove that Chemistry wasn't necessarily a weak spot!!

 

[turtleboard]

Well, Tell us what happens on the exams. What problems do you run into while taking exams that you apparently DON'T run into while taking "sample exams?" I'll assume that these sample exams are very similar in content and style to your course exams.


Tim of New York City.

 

[Beccalyn]

I went over the sample exams, and tried to understand the reason's of why i got what I did...yet on the exam..there were questions I had never seen(only 2) and layouts that I was unfamiliar with...the 2 questions I didn't know one asked about which compound was more soluble, The answer was the longest carbon chain with an OH, I knew it had to have an OH, but I did not know about the length of the chain business, we NEVER covered that in class, and our book talked about it for maybe a paragraph...there were about 7 questions on alkynes, basically a compound in the middle with arrows leading out to different compounds asking you.." how did they get like that" it was my own fault that I was not a pro on alkynes, I knew the alkenes like the back of my hand, but that really didn't help. Then there were about 7 questions about reactions with drawn structures..they would have a structure drawn out, and ask you if you did something to it..what would it look like,,,(and then provided a bank of solutions), the errors I made were careless..missreading, ie: giving the final step, and not the intermediate what they asked for....Now we have moved on to delocalization, dienes...i'm trying to understand everypoint fully and do all the homework completely, but I have such a fear, that i'll make stupid errors again.

 

[lumanyika]

Beccalyn,what you need to do is capitalize on your mistakes(however trivial they may seem).go back and review the question again and this time around(and always if you can) try to conceptualize what the question is REALLY asking.I promise it'll workout some how.I was in the same predicament in Physics. I used to get the answer on my first attempt and then pass it off as the wrong one b/c I got it too easily(in a short period of time),and then veer off into turbulent territory!!I'm still battling this problem now(in differential eqs.).but as I said before,keep it simple and do not KNOW what the question is asking,but UNDERSTAND it.

Cheers,
DEAD GUY IN ROOM#4

p.s. try working with models,and computer-generated ones are the best.

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TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN,MUCH IS EXPECTED.

 

[Hawkeye01]

The thing that helped me the best was a dry erase board. I got A's in both organic one and two, please don't think I am bragging, I am just saying that it worked great for me. Write out a mechanism, quickly erase it and do it again. Practice this over and over. I don't know about your class, but here at Iowa, we got only 1 hour for the exam, so you need to be really efficient in order to complete the exam. Flash cards are good, but I don't think you learn as much as when you write it out. Finally try to understand the material, DO NOT memorize. Your memory is likely to fail you on a big exam when nerves are running high. If you understand the reaction you don't need to memorize. That is what worked for me, hopefully it can work for you.

"Building a Foundation."

 

[Beccalyn]

i'm going to try that erase board thing..it seems like with this chapter i'm in now there aren't as many mechanisms..as there are understanding why things happen the way they do...(we're dealing with delocalized electrons, and how acids vary in strength, compared to alcohols, yadda yadda) the book we are using (prenhall, third edition by Bruice) I think is terribly complicated...are there books..or sources that you guys used that you found to be helpful???
thank you sososososososo much
becca

 

[turtleboard]

Beccalyn,

I used the Bruice book when I took Orgo too. Of all the books on Orgo out there, you won't find any book SIMPLER than Bruice unfortunately.

If you notice she doesn't go much into molecular orbital theory and organic reactions, but almost every other Orgo book beats it to death.

In any event, I agree with the dry erase board as being the best way to learn mechanisms -- I did the same thing too in college, but from your reply to my question it sounds like you're running into things you don't expect on the exams. In other words, you're running into things you haven't really studied for, and that's what you should avoid. I realize that there's a mountain of material to get through in Orgo and there's only so much time, but the last thing you wanna do is anticipate what your professor is gonna stress on the exams. In med school there's that same mountain with the same predicament. The only solution is to KNOW IT ALL.

Tim of New York City.
GAME 3's TONIGHT

 

[Nurse2Doc]

Hey~you at least got to choose from a few answers, one of which I am assuming was correct! It took me 3 weeks before I could even understand my organic instructor's dialect (who knew that "arse be dew" was sp2?) And then when it all finally clicked~when the lightbulb flashed before my eyes like magic, he hands me this test, handwritten, all of 8 or 10 questions~and I kid you not~I am writing directly from the exam as we speak~#4) For the molecular formula, C3H80 (at least I think it is a 3), draw the structural isomers. All must contain different functional groups. Show all bonds, formal charges, & lone pairs of electrons. (do ya think we were even offered a little piece of info like the question is worth 12 points? HELL NO!)Lemme give ya one more just for kicks~10) There are 18 isomers for C8H18. Assume for some of these isomers the parent chain is a pentane with a methyl and ethyl branch. How many structures can you write that satisfy these conditions? Write them, assign appropriate name for each. (did I mention we had an hour for this test? And that one, as it turns out, was worth only 8 points, with points taken off for additional info as well as missing info)
(and oh~by the way~ we had to be done in an hour) I knew this stuff inside and out (ONLY B/C I got several books and a tutor and busted my "ARSE" to learn it on my own~and I just keep thinking there is NO way I could have done better on this exam. I scored a 79, and I was one of 3 to even pass. It didnt take me long to realize that the instructor is EVERYTHING in Orgy! I took the second test with similar results~I got a 78, and only 3 others passed~before I realized that no matter what I do it is not happening here. So...I officially dropped the course, and am physically completing it, and retaking it with a highly recommended instructor next semester, one up on the whole game b/c I have done the work already! The only problem~my 4 yr school (where I took 3/4 of my courses) doesn't offer it next semester (only offers Orgy2 with the same professor~NOT!) and I will have to take it at a community college. It is a real bummer that the fact that I take it at a community college may hurt me~b/c it is all the same stuff~the syllibii are almost identical~it just so happens that the community college has better tastes in professors!
Perhaps you should consider doing what I am doing~take another instructor~get recs first~but do take it at a 4 yr school if at all possible, as I have heard that it seems to be a source of contention with ADCOMS. Anyway~now that that is off my chest~I am about 2 bra sizes smaller

Thanx for letting me vent!

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Some people look better with their clothes on!

[This message has been edited by Nurse2Doc (edited 10-31-2000).]

 

[Nurse2Doc]

By the way~Brown&Foote is a decent book~it got me 78 & 79 on 2 really tough exams and it is NOT the book that our instructor was teaching from (He uses Wade which is about as worthless as... well, you fill in the blanks) And if all else fails, it is a pretty indigo color that looks lovely as a toilet seat lock to keep little ones out of places not made for hands or tinker toys.

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Some people look better with their clothes on!

 

[Emily1]

I only have a minute, but I do have a few quick suggestions: 1. it sounds as though you may be focusing on brute memorization which is a part of Orgo, to be sure, but it can also be more "high yield" to try to understand concepts of different pathways as much as possible...as you learn something new, try to generalize/think about why it is the way it is. That way, in addition to your flashcards and memorization techniques, you might be able to come up w/a good guess for exam questions you don't recognize. A lot of orgo is based on similar principles. 2. Ask around and see if anyone in your class really likes their TA. If you hear good reports, Go to that person's section if at all possible. I found that great TA's were often my best resources for a class, and often they are really happy to give you extra time if you need it. 3. Don't let orgo psych you out too much...sometimes I'd do poorly on tests just because I lost confidence in myself...I know it's easier said than done, but it really helps if you try to go in with a confident attitude. Having said that, I totally just did the same thing on my anatomy exam yesterday, and let myself get all psyched out by how intimidating the subject was. Needless to say, it was a mistake. Still, remember that you can make it through this.

 

[764]

I was able to do very well in Organic Chem. I like others am not bragging about my accomplishment. I went to a small competitive private college. Our orgo teacher would cover two chapter during each 1hr class. Since taking the class I have tutored many people to higher grades and I hope some of this advice helps.

1. Don't focus on memorization except for reactions and mechanisms. Each chapter has one to three major concepts, you need to really understand these. To do this requires that you do a lot of practice problems. By doing the practice problems you will inevitable memorize what needs to be.

2. Organic continually builds on itself. So if you don't understand something from the last test it will continually haunt you for the rest of the year. So go back and review!

3. Form a problem solving process one that has an order so when you are answering the questions you force you self to go through a check list. This prevents you from making little mistakes. This sounds time consuming but its not. We typically had 50 questions including synthesis and mechanisms that we had to complete in 50 min. I finished with ample time left.

4. If you book is not good go find a suplementary text. I assure you that you book is your greatest ally in a class like this. A book won't show you molecule but the will certainly give you the info required to answer any question you come upon.
Orgo was not easy for me I had to work very had at it. I gave up a lot of parties and friday nights because of it. Hang in there it will all be over soon.

 

[ChrisSteffen]

Just wait until P-Chem!

 

[Eleusia]

Whoever said to find a new TA section was definitely right. From what you've said, it sounds like you come from a large school with a big orgo class, but does you're professor keep office hours to talk with students? Sometimes it can be better to go straight to the horse's mouth. Then again, depends on the prof. Also, check around to see if the school or the chem department has a peer tutoring program.

 

[Detroit Rock City]

What a *******! "I'm having difficulty with organic chem" boo-hoo. Get a spine and call somebody who cares. biatch.

 

[Beccalyn]

Thanks for your wonderful response

The purpose of these postings is to get others advice. Stupid me right? Asking people who've already taken a course if they have any pointers. You're having difficulties too? Well why don't you take your sarcasm elsewhere, maybe if you read some of the postings you could actually get something out of it.

Have a wonderful day

Originally posted by Detroit Rock City:
What a *******! "I'm having difficulty with organic chem" boo-hoo. Get a spine and call somebody who cares. biatch.

 

[jrunyan]

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!

I was actually thinking that taking ochem the second time around might make understanding the material a little easier. Well, the responses that you have recieved have done nothing but scare. Magically, I earned a 74, the first time through, but left with NO understanding of what I learned (or didn't learn). I guess I just guessed really good. Why can't chemistry be easy, like calculus II (HAHAHAHAHA...I'm taking that for the second time right now!)

I will tell you that in watching the other people in the class who did well, understanding the concepts is the way to go...memorization only teaches you the answer to one problem. (if only I would have learned that before fifth week)

Good Luck!

-jacob

 

[Detroit Rock City]

Beccalyn,
Originally I allowed my medical student to post a reply, to which you took offense. However if you look closly, the heading of this chat site is allopathic. Oragnic chem is not a class offered in any medical school that know of. So why don't you take your pre-med questions to the pre-med forum.

 

[ml1990]

Hey Detroit Rock City, why don't you lighten
up a bit!

 

[Beccalyn]

You are so right the name of this posting is Allopathic...therefore an excellent place to ask my question. Why?? Because you've already gotten into medical school. Obviously you've must done well, or you wouldn't be where you are. I'm sorry that you took such offense to me asking a question. I didn't think I was being out of line asking it.

Originally posted by ml1990:
Hey Detroit Rock City, why don't you lighten
up a bit!

 

[Laav]

Becca-
I am sorry to hear that you are struggling with Organic b/c I was in a similiar situation. I am actually planning to apply
to DO school, but occasionally browse the
allopathic forums. And I am appalled at some
of the responses ( and it occurs on all
of the med school forums - osteopathic and
allopathic and so I am trying not to
single any one forum out ). I am currently
in Orgo 1 and the first month I did everything I thought I should to get that
A - studying 15-20 hours a week and doing all
practice exams. Did it work? Nope. I got a
C+ on the first exam and I was devastated
for weeks. Finally I picked myself up and
took on a whole new strategy. I started going to another TA and went to review sessions held by another lecturer. I also cut my study exam time in half. Well on my second exam I missed an A by one question.
So it payed off. I believe in the power
of perseverance and persistence. If you have
any questions please feel free to e-mail me.
Laav
[email protected]

 

[JPT]

call me insane, but reading poetry helps. yeah, i know, what the heck am i talking about right? im not a brilliant student or anything like that, but i can tell you that it helps. its a mental exercise which forces you to use different parts of your brain. i got B's in gen chem and A's in organic, so i think my response is somewhat valid. always step back and visualize what you are learning in organic chem. you could try sculpting. it might help you see things in three dimensions. also try and connect it to other subjects like biology and physics. interdigitating subjects is an excellent way to kill multiple birds with a single stone.

 

[Sadeeq_19]

Beccy,

Are you a foreign student?

 

[Beccalyn]

no I am not
why do you ask?

Originally posted by Sadeeq_19:
Beccy,

Are you a foreign student?

 

[Beccalyn]

thank you for all of those who shed some light on my troubles of studying organic. My last test I did extremely well on, and might even end up with an A for the semester. I think organic is more of a let's see what you've got kind of class. Doing it over and over and over is the only way the worked for me. Also, reading other organic books..sometimes you can understand certain concepts in other books better than your own. Thank again for all of your help.