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DMZ

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I was wondering about my chances of getting into ANY ortho residency but preferably one in the Philly area. My step 1 was 230, my preclinical grades were alright (a few honors here and there), I have 2 years of research prior to medical school with multiple publications (no first authors) in a heme/onc department. I have my surgical rotation in the winter but can't take an ortho elective until my fourth year. And I don't know if this matters but I played linebacker in highschool and one year in college, got into powerlifting for a couple of years after that and then boxing for a couple of years. Although I never been around ortho people before, I heard they were kind of like the jocks of the medical field and I have been having a hard time fitting in with most people in the medical field mainly because they are so unlike the high testosterone driven people I am used to being around. This by the way is one of the main reasons why I am interested in ortho. Also, I heard that you should decide early for ortho. Is it too late for me? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Also, does anyone know whether or not ortho residents still get to the gym at least twice a week?
 

doc05

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I assume you're a 3rd year, so it's definitely not too late. Ortho is a good field, but competitive. Talk to an advisor early, and try to get some ortho research when you have time. Your research from before med school will help, but as with all specialties, it helps to have research in your field of interest.

right now focus on getting lots of honors in 3rd year, especially surgery (also a high-testosterone environment). Do what you can to take an ortho elective as early as possible.

ortho is one of those fields where aways are very important, so sometime in the spring apply for a few at programs you'd be interested in.

that's all I can help you with, since I'm not applying for ortho. talk to the residents at your school and see what advice they have. if you have a gym on campus, that's where you'll find them.
 

NCHoosier

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Having recently gone through the ortho match, here are some suggestions:

1. Try to rack up as many 'honors' grades as you can third year.
2. Schedule an ortho AI at your home program as early in 4th year as possible (July or August), and get the all-important "honors" on this rotation. You do this by showing up early and staying late, helping out without being annoying, knowing the anatomy cold for the cases you scrub on, and generally being a cool person to work with.
3. In the spring of 3rd year, get on the phone with or write some programs where you might like to rotate and apply for aways. Many suggest that you rotate at one "dream shot" type place and one that's a bit less competitive.
4. Go all out on your aways and at your home AI, and try to get letters from the chair at each. Name recognition counts for quite a bit and having a letter from a 'name' is very helpful.
5. If you want, try and get involved with an ortho research project at your home institution. It's not too late to do this, and even if you don't publish off of it, you'll have fourth year to continue working on your project.
6. Be prepared to apply widely, i.e. on the order of 50 programs. If you land interviews at at least 10 or so, and come across well on those interviews, chances are you'll match.

I agree w/ the previous poster in that away rotations carry more weight in ortho than with any other specialty.

I'll stop there. You're still in the right time frame and it's not too late by any means. Please feel free to contact me if you have any more specific questions. Also, talk to the ortho interns at your home program; they've just been through the process and usually they're glad to field questions.

-NCH, PGY-1
 

Kilgorian

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To respond specifically to your questions:
-Don't limit yourself geographically
-Your score is fine
-Be prepared to explain "alright" preclinical grades (just be ready to talk about it; it certainly isn't dooming. There are MANY important factors besides these marks. Clinical rotations are more important)
-Any publications/research helps (mastery of concepts is more important than the title of a paper), but try to get some involvement within the field
-Do well on surgery
-Extracurricular activities help, but it doesn't have to be football or powerlifting!
-We're not all jocks. We do tend to be outgoing, content people with diverse interests that often enjoy active endeavors. We like to work hard so we can get out and do fun stuff.
-Yes, it seems most of my camrades are at the gym a lot. There's a phone there to return pages!
-I don't know about all this "high testosterone" stuff but fitting in is important. I really identified with the ortho residents when I was a student, and that was reassuring. I felt at home. That probably shouldn't be the main/only reason to become an orthopaedist - you've got to love the work.
-It's never too late!
-I'll echo the importance of hard work. Work Hard. Really impress people on your rotations. The students that stand out in my mind worked very hard. I always put in a good word for the student that honestly tried to be helpful, showed up first, left last, and was always enthusiastic. The person that knows all the answers but straggles in a little later never rises to the top like the person who was always there helping you out.
-Unfortunately, names/reputations are important. Try to set yourself up to get letters from influential faculty. Network a little.
 

nero

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Kilgorian said:
Be prepared to explain "alright" preclinical grades (just be ready to talk about it; it certainly isn't dooming.
-

Really? I didn't know that they would even care about pre clinical grades, from what I've heard most programs dont care if you passed everythign or if you had 3 honros and 2 high passes adn passed the rest.

nero
 

Kilgorian

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It is a big stretch to think that admission committees wouldn't even care about preclinical grades. Sure, clinical grades are more important (amongst other things) but everything else is on your record and reflected upon in your dean's letter.
 

carguy

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Kilgorian said:
-Unfortunately, names/reputations are important. Try to set yourself up to get letters from influential faculty. Network a little.

How do you know who are the "influential faculty" or the "big names" in a particular field??
-Thanks
 

gozeemer

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Stupid Question..what is a competitive Step one score for ortho? Thanks.
 

O'doyleRules

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A competitive Step 1 score depends on the program to which you are applying. However, ortho is becoming competitive across the board, so this advice may apply less. Generally, I think that a 220-230 is a solid score for a good ortho program. >230 is probably a must for the competitive programs, as they will have more >250 applicants than they can interview. <220 and you will need some other high points to the application, like grades, research, away rotations, etc.
 

Wahoos

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I would have to say that you need at least above 225 to make the Step I cut off at most programs. 230-240 will not hurt you and will not help you. >240 is a competitive score, but a lot of the people who gets multiple "interviews" are above 240. If you are below 220, you have to have something very very special in your application(like a phD, extensive research, mult pubs, past professional athlete, etc) to get a spot. This is just from my experience interviewing last year. And almost all the places I interviewed had ~100 apps per spot. My home school had 600 for 6 spots, the place I am at now had ~450 for 4 spots.
 

Zoom-Zoom

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Random USMLE question...what is the highest score you can get? I've been looking all over for percentile information and can't find anything. The only thing I've found is that they discontinued using percentiles and that most scores are between 170 and 230 :rolleyes: Can anyone enlighten me?
 

NYCOrtho

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I would like your opinions on my chances of matching into ortho programs in the Northeast (hopefully NYC). Below are my creds:

1) Nontraditional applicant: Minority applicant with Wall Street experience x 5 years prior to medical school
2) Attend top med school in the South
3) Excellent preclinical grades; currently an MSIII
4) 1 submitted ortho research paper and 1 in progress
4) Step 1: 228/92 (thought it would be higher; maybe I should ask for a rescore?)

Thanks for your opinions! :)
(I will post in both ortho and allo forums for variety of replies)
 
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thejesus

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Mooby said:
The highest that's been recorded is 259/280. As far as averages, I think most people need to be in the 230's or higher for the competitive residencies.

Correction: Looks like the highest possible is 300, theoretically.
http://www.som.tulane.edu/studentaffairs/USMLE_QUESTIONS.html

two students in my class scored above a 259--one was a 272--and thats the highest ive heard of.

secondly, there is a paper in JBJS, 84:2090-2096 published in 2002 about ortho resident selection criteria. i suggest anyone concerned about their application try to take a look at it for recent information thats a little more objective than opinions solicited on the internet.

lastly, remember these things are only correlations. a person that scores 240+ is likely going to have other impressive things on their CV just because they have (generally) more going intellectually. its not that some d-bag cant get a 250, or someone very bright cant get <200, its just a correlation. my point is that the emphasis on boards score, while important, probably reflects something more than JUST a boards score. an okay score probably won't ruin your app--a 250 doesnt make a d-bag anything more than a d-bag.
 

toehammer

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After reading this forum i have become really nervous about getting an ortho residency. I read the cutoff for step 1 is 230...i got a 227....am i going to get discarded because of 3 points? My grades in med school were honors&high pass, i have 2 research projects behind me...but I'm just really sad now...im a 3rd year, i guess you will say that i should take step 2 early...but if there is that cutoff, does it even matter what i get on step 2?

:(
 

thejesus

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toehammer said:
After reading this forum i have become really nervous about getting an ortho residency. I read the cutoff for step 1 is 230...i got a 227....am i going to get discarded because of 3 points? My grades in med school were honors&high pass, i have 2 research projects behind me...but I'm just really sad now...im a 3rd year, i guess you will say that i should take step 2 early...but if there is that cutoff, does it even matter what i get on step 2?

:(

ppl have matched with 227 before. your score doesnt make you competitive, but you will have to have as many as the other goodies as possible (lots of clinical H's, possibly AOA, away rotations). studying hard and taking step ii early might help... no one truly knows.
 

VincentAdultman

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toehammer said:
After reading this forum i have become really nervous about getting an ortho residency. I read the cutoff for step 1 is 230...i got a 227....am i going to get discarded because of 3 points? My grades in med school were honors&high pass, i have 2 research projects behind me...but I'm just really sad now...im a 3rd year, i guess you will say that i should take step 2 early...but if there is that cutoff, does it even matter what i get on step 2?

:(


There is NO cutoff. Obviously you want your Step One to be as good as possible, but 227 is not bad and if you have extensive research and good grades you still have a shot. Working your ass off this year and on your electives next year is going to be key.
 

thejesus

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wrigliarows said:
So if I got a 208 on step one should I even apply for ortho? Should I even apply for surgery? I really wanted to go into surgery. My GPA is 3.3 and I have no research. Would love some feedback.

would not bother with ortho...your chances are dismal at best. you have a chance with g-surg, though you wont get into any great programs. take CK early and do well. honoring clerkships will help. doing a few aways will also help.
 

woowoo

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thejesus said:
would not bother with ortho...your chances are dismal at best. you have a chance with g-surg, though you wont get into any great programs. take CK early and do well. honoring clerkships will help. doing a few aways will also help.

would disagree with the sentiment of this post. while a 208 makes it very difficult to get an ortho spot, it still isn't out of the question. yes it is a big risk to go for it, but it is possible. step 1 is not all of your application. there are other factors such as grades, research, step 2, letters of rec, dean's letter, interview, and most importantly AWAY ROTATIONS. granted, getting into one of the "top" programs, whatever that may be, will be somewhat difficult, but if a 208 was the only blemish, you rocked step 2, and did very well on your 4th year ortho rotations, then you have a shot.

so if ortho is what you want to do, buckle down and you can do it.
 

thejesus

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woowoo said:
would disagree with the sentiment of this post. while a 208 makes it very difficult to get an ortho spot, it still isn't out of the question. yes it is a big risk to go for it, but it is possible. step 1 is not all of your application. there are other factors such as grades, research, step 2, letters of rec, dean's letter, interview, and most importantly AWAY ROTATIONS. granted, getting into one of the "top" programs, whatever that may be, will be somewhat difficult, but if a 208 was the only blemish, you rocked step 2, and did very well on your 4th year ortho rotations, then you have a shot.

so if ortho is what you want to do, buckle down and you can do it.

mid 220's is the lowest score ive heard of for current ortho residents--and there are only a few of those. i know of applicants with lower scores who applied broadly and received only a few interviews. true, if ortho is your thang... and its the only thing that would ever work for you... then i guess you dont have a choice. i suspect though that matching with such a low score would be very, very difficult. id really like to hear if anyone has heard of ppl matching w/ scores less than the mean. if you do apply, then you definitely need to spend a lot more time working on some sort of back-up plan.

i think the unfortunate thing (and the main reason for my last post) is that its hard to apply to two specialties (like ortho with a g-surg backup) and be serious about either. surgery is kind of an 'all in' thing... for instance, its hard to explain to a g-surg PD why you did 16 weeks of ortho in your fourth year, but you really want to do lap choles for the rest of your life.

just my opinion, but if my step I were less than 220, i wouldnt bother to apply. guess i have a phobia of failure or uncertainty...
 

Debridement

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woowoo said:
so if ortho is what you want to do, buckle down and you can do it.

this is the worst advice I have ever heard. you're probably that same d-bag on PartyPoker that goes 'all-in' with a 4-6 offsuit. You could flop a straight, but the chances are so low....

Like your 4-6 offsuit, with a 208, you are toast. T-O-A-S-T. I have never even HEARD of anyone even getting ONE interview with a score that low. At my program, you aren't even allowed to ROTATE here as a student unless you have a 220 (so you don't waste your time) and this isn't some elite east-coast residency. The guy asking the question is 12 points away from that!

Woowoo, stop giving bad advice to people on a subject that you know nothing about. From your prior posts, it's clear that you are about 4 weeks into your M3 year. You just got done taking Step 1 and obviously don't know anything about the reality of applying to residency. Let's see if you would bet YOUR future on a 4-6 offsuit or a 208.
 
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woowoo

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Debridement said:
this is the worst advice I have ever heard. you're probably that same d-bag on PartyPoker that goes 'all-in' with a 4-6 offsuit. You could flop a straight, but the chances are so low....

Like your 4-6 offsuit, with a 208, you are toast. T-O-A-S-T. I have never even HEARD of anyone even getting ONE interview with a score that low. At my program, you aren't even allowed to ROTATE here as a student unless you have a 220 (so you don't waste your time) and this isn't some elite east-coast residency. The guy asking the question is 12 points away from that!

Woowoo, stop giving bad advice to people on a subject that you know nothing about. From your prior posts, it's clear that you are about 4 weeks into your M3 year. You just got done taking Step 1 and obviously don't know anything about the reality of applying to residency. Let's see if you would bet YOUR future on a 4-6 offsuit or a 208.[/QUote)

do you really think that i was just making things up? i know of 2 people personally that are currently ortho residents with sub 220's step scores, and have read a few other accounts on here and orthogate of sub 220's who are now residents. but you are right, since YOU have never heard of anyone getting an interview with a sub220, then you definitely don't have a shot at getting one, b/c YOU said so. believe it or not, just b/c you haven't HEARD of someone getting an interview with a sub220, it does really happen, and yes, people do get spots with step 1 scores in that range sometimes.
 
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Debridement

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Fine. Let me qualify my comments.

1) I actually AM an ortho resident. (And not a DO or an FMG)
2) I know all of the residents in MY program
3) I know all the guys who graduated from my program in the last few years
4) I know all the fellows in my program
5) I know a handful of the residents in the program across town.
6) I know all the people from my medical school class who went into ortho.
7) I met most of the residents at the 3 programs I rotated at, including the one from my medical school.
8) I know/remember a lot of the guys from the interview trail.

So, based on all of those people and all of those meetings, I have personally never met or heard of anyone with a sub-220 who matched into ortho. I know of a handful that were 220-230.

So these boards or orthogate, which draw from a huge pool of posters (all of the US), may have one or two fairy-tale stories of love and redemption with the underdog coming out on top, but I want whoever reads this to not get the false impression that this sort of miracle is commonplace.

I remember being an applicant and it was a very stressful time. A few people from my class didnt match (GSurg and Ortho) and it is the worst thing ever for a medical student. I don't want anyone to have to go through that. Thinking that theyr'e going to get into ortho with a 208 is teeing them up for that.
 
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sdn4em

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Wondering if anyone knew what places higher in priority or if that even matters, in terms of comparing USMLE scores with elective evaluations?

thanks :)
 

moquito_17

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sdn4em said:
Wondering if anyone knew what places higher in priority or if that even matters, in terms of comparing USMLE scores with elective evaluations?

thanks :)

Since people seem to ask this all the time, here are some highlights from:

Orthopaedic Resident-Selection Criteria
Adam D. Bernstein, MD, Laith M. Jazrawi, MD, Basil Elbeshbeshy, MD, Craig J. DellaValle, MD and Joseph D. Zuckerman, MD
The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery (American) 84:2090-2096 (2002)
© 2002 The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, Inc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

TABLE I: Ranking of the Twenty-six Resident-Selection Criteria According to the Results of the Questionnaire Completed by Orthopaedic Residency Program Directors

Rank/ Score/ Resident-Selection Criteria


1 7.88 ± 1.71 (n = 109) Rotation at director's institution
2 7.78 ± 1.48 (n = 109) USMLE Part-I score
3 7.77 ± 1.34 (n = 108) Rank in medical school
4 7.55 ± 1.57 (n = 109) Formality/politeness at interview
5 7.35 ± 1.39 (n = 109) Personal appearance of candidate
6 7.11 ± 2.12 (n = 102) Performance on ethical questions at interview
7 7.01 ± 1.94 (n = 108) Letter of recommendation by orthopaedic surgeon
8 6.92 ± 1.90 (n = 109) Candidate is Alpha Omega Alpha member
9 6.47 ± 1.71 (n = 109) Medical school reputation
10 6.25 ± 2.10 (n = 109) Dean's letter
11 5.84 ± 2.26 (n = 108) Personal statement
12 5.74 ± 2.56 (n = 107) Failed first attempt at matching to an orthopaedic residency program
13 5.67 ± 2.46 (n = 106) Telephone call placed on candidate's behalf
14 5.66 ± 1.97 (n = 109) Candidate has published research
15 5.50 ± 2.14 (n = 108) Candidate participated in a dedicated research experience
16 5.13 ± 1.89 (n = 108) Letter of recommendation from nonorthopaedic surgeon
17 4.93 ± 2.20 (n = 109) Candidate is MD/PhD
18 4.83 ± 2.13 (n = 109) Reputation of undergraduate institution
19 4.61 ± 2.38 (n = 108) Undergraduate grade-point average
20 4.44 ± 2.16 (n = 107) Appearance of curriculum vitae
21 4.30 ± 2.15 (n = 109) Letter of recommendation from a senior resident
22 3.94 ± 2.48 (n = 109) Candidate has a relative affiliated with director's program
23 3.56 ± 2.12 (n = 108) Candidate has an undergraduate engineering major
24 3.26 ± 2.41 (n = 108) Thank-you letter from candidate
25 2.32 ± 2.22 (n = 66) Performance on manual skills testing during interview
26 1.78 ± 1.76 (n = 64) Evaluation by psychologist/psychiatrist during interview
-----------------

This table does not tell the whole story—not even part of the story.

Anyone who is serious about applying to an orthopaedics residency should read this. It is chalk full of good information and gives a good review of the liturature regarding resident selection.

Hope this helps,
 
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ChicagotoCali

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Hey, I am currently an MSIII who is mostly sure on Ortho as a career. My dilemma is that I REALLY, REALLY want to be in california for residency, but I don't know how competitive I will be for interviews.

My step 1 score was a 233 and I currently attend Northwestern Univ. I don't have any ortho research experience but I am planning on taking a year off to do this.

I've heard LA ortho programs have step 1 cutoffs ~240--do I have a shot? Also, would it help to do my yr of research with some ortho guys in LA? Any input from residents/students familiar with the crazy california match would be appreciated.

THANKS!
 

Debridement

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Hey, I am currently an MSIII who is mostly sure on Ortho as a career. My dilemma is that I REALLY, REALLY want to be in california for residency, but I don't know how competitive I will be for interviews.

My step 1 score was a 233 and I currently attend Northwestern Univ. I don't have any ortho research experience but I am planning on taking a year off to do this.

I've heard LA ortho programs have step 1 cutoffs ~240--do I have a shot? Also, would it help to do my yr of research with some ortho guys in LA? Any input from residents/students familiar with the crazy california match would be appreciated.

THANKS!

First off, you are a liar. Within 4 minutes, you posted 2 different messages saying that you are a MSIII at U of Chicago and Northwestern. So either you were lying then, lying now or lying both times. If your USMLE score doesn’t sink your application, your lack of truthfulness probably will.

Secondly, without some connection to California (as with any region) I doubt that you will get many interviews, regardless of board score. With your middle-of-the-road score, I doubt you get any at all. If you can’t live anywhere else but the Left Coast, then I would try doing research in that area of the country, having connections via college, being from there, writing a compelling essay, etc.

Best of luck— next time, try being more honest and less annoying.
 
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raedslm

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hi
i am orthopedic surgeon i finished my resideny in syria ,i was the first in the final syrian board exam,from one year i am working in france ,i passed USMLE step ck score 228/92.
i want to ask about the chance to get orthopedic residency in usa in my case.
thanks
my email
[email protected]
 

VincentAdultman

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this is the worst advice I have ever heard. you're probably that same d-bag on PartyPoker that goes 'all-in' with a 4-6 offsuit. You could flop a straight, but the chances are so low....

Like your 4-6 offsuit, with a 208, you are toast. T-O-A-S-T. I have never even HEARD of anyone even getting ONE interview with a score that low. At my program, you aren't even allowed to ROTATE here as a student unless you have a 220 (so you don't waste your time) and this isn't some elite east-coast residency. The guy asking the question is 12 points away from that!

Woowoo, stop giving bad advice to people on a subject that you know nothing about. From your prior posts, it's clear that you are about 4 weeks into your M3 year. You just got done taking Step 1 and obviously don't know anything about the reality of applying to residency. Let's see if you would bet YOUR future on a 4-6 offsuit or a 208.

http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

Step One 200-210:
Matched- 33
Unmatched- 29

Yaaaaaaaaaay anectodal evidence!
 
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Debridement

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http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

Step One 200-210:
Matched- 33
Unmatched- 29

Yaaaaaaaaaay anectodal evidence!

1) Don't talk to me about evidence. I have been trying to be clear about what is realistic to applicants and it's anecdotes that keep the FMG/208/Indian/Syrian/Carribian/Failed Step 1/DO for MD spot/IMG/Israeli/Malaysian hopes alive.

2) The numbers from the source you quote (if you acutally read it) would tell you that this is from people who sumitted a rank list. Ergo, all those that had 200-210 that got ZERO interviews are not counted in that tally. (n = unk) Hence, one might argue that a confounding variable in your statistic is that you have not accounted for the excuded group. THUS, all you can say based off of these numbers, is:

IF you get AT LEAST ONE orthopaedics interview which you rank, AND you have a score of 200-210,THEN your chances of matching are 53%.

That is really all you can say about it from an objective standpoint.

Don't patronize me, I dominate you.

DB out
 
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VincentAdultman

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My home program interviews all its ortho applicants, regardless of numbers.

One of my aways did the same, and I know of many other places with similar policies. I think it's VERY difficult to apply and not come away with even a single interview as a U.S. Senior
 
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Good Mountain

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"Performance on manual skills testing during interview"

what is this exactly about?
 
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Tired

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"Performance on manual skills testing during interview"

what is this exactly about?

I think it's probably something like this:

On one of my interviews, they took us down to their Bio-Skills lab and had us do this round of testing. 6 different stations, including:

- complete the game Operation (Shrek version) as fast as possible, with 5 seconds added to your total time with each 'buzz'
- take a fake femur, and using a power drill, but a screw through the neck, coming out dead center of the head; your distance from the target is measured in mm
- bend a distal humerus plate to conform to the model
- put a running stitch in a cadaver

You get the idea.

All candidates' results were compiled in a list, which was forwarded to the PD. How much did it matter when they made their selections? The opinions ranged from, "It matters a lot," to "It's just an opportunity to talk to the residents." No one really knew. Nonetheless, we all busted our a**es to do better than the guy next to us.
 

toehammer

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thats really funny, sounds like fun. where was that?
 

Pannus

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I was thinking about a residency in ortho. I am currently an M3 at a midwestern school (not one of the big names). I am especially interested in obtaining a residency in California or another major metropolitan area (somewhere warm hopefully :cool:, but sweet home chicago would do. Step I = 240, class rank unknown (probably around upper 1/4?, Definitely top 1/2), a few honors here and there so far, highly involved in AMA and State med soc. at local, regional, and national level, involved in a few school committees, 3 yrs total basic sci research experience in cell/molec/developmental bio--> 3rd author on one project, 1 abstract and poster on another. Will be starting surg clinical research soon. Previous High school all-america athlete, one year NCAA athletics (non-scholarship).

I don't have any "big names" from out west pulling strings for me, nor do I have significant ties to west coast (or midwest for that matter since my family is scattered all over the country and/or dead)

I feel I have a decent chance of getting an ortho residency somewhere, but my questions are:

Since I can't obviously do away rotations all over Cali due to time and financial reasons, and since away rotations are so highly valued, should I use my aways at a midwestern programs where I might have a better chance of getting in anyway, and just apply to cali as a crapshoot?

Are there any "midwestern friendly" ortho programs on the left coast?

Should I answer at interview (if I get 'em) that I have no significant ties to any location? That wife and I just wanna live in Cali? (ya' know, in addition to "this program is the greatest for the following reasons, blah blah blah."

Anyways...is there anyone out there who got in from a smaller midwest school, no ties, less than superb grades, no LOR from nobel laureates, etc...
What are my chances?
What should I do?

Thanks in advance.
 

diegomed85

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i was browsing through the other posts and couldn't find an answer so here is my question...im a 2nd year med student whose honored 50% of modules, passed the other 50% (just got a Pass in gross anatomy - the head and neck part killed me...started off weak in med school my first semester by only passing classes, but later picked up my grades 2nd semester)....im going to take my step 1's in june.....then I am going to complete my 3rd year rotations where I know I need to Honor the surgery rotation....

my question is, I also gained a spot in the MD/MBA program where I would take a year off of med school and compete my MBA...would this help my chances of matching ortho (I'm not going to get inducted into AOA, but I have research experience in orthopedics in med school)...so I was thinking that the MBA may differentiate my from other applicants...

thanks for the help in advance.
 

daki

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Questions almost similar to above post, regarding an MS 3 in dual MD/MPH program, with no research experience yet. I keep hearing PDs might look down on an applicant who took a hear off to get MPH, esp since the degree may not really applicable to ortho?
 

MDstudent79

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So, based on all of those people and all of those meetings, I have personally never met or heard of anyone with a sub-220 who matched into ortho. I know of a handful that were 220-230.

For what it's worth, according to the 2005 Match Statistics put out by the AAMC, 57 out of 118 (48%) of US MD seniors with a Step 1 score less than or equal to 210 that ranked orthopedic surgery matched successfully. That's about 50-50, so it would seem if other parts of one's application were good, one would have a good shot with a 208.

I know nothing of your program (it might be above average in terms of board scores), but people can--and do--lie about scores. Never know...it happens. :)

Looking at the stats quickly, it looks like you have almost a 60% chance of matching with a sub-220 score, as well, which isn't horrible I guess.
 

Debridement

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:oops:
For what it's worth, according to the 2005 Match Statistics put out by the AAMC, 57 out of 118 (48%) of US MD seniors with a Step 1 score less than or equal to 210 that ranked orthopedic surgery matched successfully. That's about 50-50, so it would seem if other parts of one's application were good, one would have a good shot with a 208.

I know nothing of your program (it might be above average in terms of board scores), but people can--and do--lie about scores. Never know...it happens. :)

Looking at the stats quickly, it looks like you have almost a 60% chance of matching with a sub-220 score, as well, which isn't horrible I guess.

You did not consider the confounding factor dude. you can only RANK ortho if you get AT LEAST one interview. The NRMP stats do not include the people whe did not get any interviews, thus the group that did match is a select 118ppl of the group that was under 210. They prolly has the other credentials to GET interview--and still, half of them did not match.

Those do not sound like good odds to me...

DB out
 
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NAECH

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Im an ortho resident in boston, and i can tell you, thank god i didnt end up with you DB. You suck. I feel bad for your interns.
 

Debridement

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Im an ortho resident in boston, and i can tell you, thank god i didnt end up with you DB. You suck. I feel bad for your interns.

what does this hve to do with anything? nothing. my interns are cool. i'm just telling people to think and to be realisitc about becoming residents when they have a long-to non shot. i guess that makes be a bad resident. sorry, my bad. i'll go back to torturing the interns now.

DB out
 

PediBoneDoc

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hello all,

I am new to this site ... i do post a lot on the orthopaedic specific forum .... i think the most of the medical students now a days get kinda caught up in numbers ... they are important, but other factors also matter ...

the most important thing is to know who you are ... what you do well ... and use that to your advantage ...

so, you may say "what does that mean, what score do I need to get?" I look at each application differently ... i look for it's strengths and weaknesses

some people have strong scores, weak grades ... some strong grades weak scores ... some great research and average everything else ... so every application is a little different ...

the important thing to understand, just like getting into medical school, if you don't score well ... it is going to be harder to get .... the ave USMLE score in ortho last year was around 230 ....

so ... truely be realistic with yourself .... An that's all I got to say about that ...
 

ramo7

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what does this hve to do with anything? nothing. my interns are cool. i'm just telling people to think and to be realisitc about becoming residents when they have a long-to non shot. i guess that makes be a bad resident. sorry, my bad. i'll go back to torturing the interns now.

DB out

would it be realisitc enough then for people with step1 scores <210 to apply for gsurgical residencies. will they fair better when it comes to being offered interviews? and if so is there a chance to do ortho through that route?
 

PediBoneDoc

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would it be realisitc enough then for people with step1 scores <210 to apply for gsurgical residencies. will they fair better when it comes to being offered interviews? and if so is there a chance to do ortho through that route?

let me say this ... everyone has a chance, the question is how good is your chance? ... low scores will prevent you from getting a lot of interviews ... but is comes down to the whole package ...

i will refer you to this link where i speak about is ... i just can type it all again ... hope it is helpful

Do I have a chance getting into an orthopaedic residency?
 

toehammer

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people just want reassurance, and the bottom line is that there is no reassurance....you have to roll the dice and take your chances. Ive met people who are so into ortho that they take more than 2 years off after medical school doing odds and ends just becasue they would be miserable doing any other type of medicine. i admire these peoples dedication, even if some of them are deluded. All you have to do is remember how it was like applying to medical school...what did your application look like then...what did u get on your mcat...what did you think of your chances? What I learned then and what ive relearned now is that people then who had 33's on mcat and 4.0 gpa's didn't get into medical school, took a year off, reapplied, and were successful. But not every story turns out this way...life is full of dissappointments....but you won't get anywhere if you never let go of the dice....what are you going to do...settle for general surgery? anesthesiology...PSYCHIATRY :laugh: ?? i'd rather just become a construction worker, at least then i can drill into cement instead of bone. Do as much as you can in every area...soak up every opportunity that will improve your application. whatever youve done to damage your application is in the past. why should you deserve a spot when someone else out there worked harder than you? Maybe you think you were just unlucky...but who wants to be associated with unlucky you anyway? Life isnt convenient, quiting is.
 

Loki666

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:oops:

You did not consider the confounding factor dude. you can only RANK ortho if you get AT LEAST one interview. The NRMP stats do not include the people whe did not get any interviews, thus the group that did match is a select 118ppl of the group that was under 210. They prolly has the other credentials to GET interview--and still, half of them did not match.

Those do not sound like good odds to me...

DB out

For the record...ie...for anybody searching for answers: This information is not entirely correct. The source document states there were 704 applicants for 610 positions. An applicant is an applicant whether they get interviews or not. Ranking is not a part of the score statistic in this article (just this part of the article). Do the math you will see what I mean. The numbers in the graph add up to the numbers given in the table.

That said: The interview ranking process, however, does take into account ranking and inteviewing. Another graph in the document indicates acceptance when taking rank order lists into account. So if someone ranks a bunch of programs, they have a better chance of placement. This clearly indicates interviews matter. But the fact is, you can somewhat gage your chances on the USMLE score vs acceptance graph. The over all data indicates that each US applicant has a 86.6% chance of placement. When the data is distributed, however, someone with a score of 200-209 only has a 53% chance of placement; whereas, someone with a score of 250-259 has a 95.2% chance of placement. The 86.6% overall can be compared to the average given in the document (230) which is 230-239 88.35% placement.

But you are right, it dont mean a thing if you aint got the interview swing.
 

Loki666

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For the record...ie...for anybody searching for answers: This information is not entirely correct. The source document states there were 704 applicants for 610 positions. An applicant is an applicant whether they get interviews or not. Ranking is not a part of the score statistic in this article (just this part of the article). Do the math you will see what I mean. The numbers in the graph add up to the numbers given in the table.

That said: The interview ranking process, however, does take into account ranking and inteviewing. Another graph in the document indicates acceptance when taking rank order lists into account. So if someone ranks a bunch of programs, they have a better chance of placement. This clearly indicates interviews matter. But the fact is, you can somewhat gage your chances on the USMLE score vs acceptance graph. The over all data indicates that each US applicant has a 86.6% chance of placement. When the data is distributed, however, someone with a score of 200-209 only has a 53% chance of placement; whereas, someone with a score of 250-259 has a 95.2% chance of placement. The 86.6% overall can be compared to the average given in the document (230) which is 230-239 88.35% placement.

But you are right, it dont mean a thing if you aint got the interview swing.


Nope...I check this out with the source...you need at least one interview for this data to mean anything...wonderful to be wrong:cool:
 
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