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If anyone has a good grasp on becoming an orthodontist, please PM me. Otherwise please leave any comments on this thread.
Ortho Question
- Thread starter maxell123
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From what I've gleaned from this board, I don't believe that anybody actually can become a orthodontist. Supposedly, these are the requirements:
1. Graduate from the right dental school.
2. Keep a dental school GPA of 3.97 or better.
3. Score at least 98 on NBDE 1.
4. Do lots of ortho-related research during dental school.
5. Be really good looking.
6. Speak at least 5 languages fluently.
If you meet all these requirements, your application may not be immediately ripped up by program directors.
If anybody knows of any other requirements, or if ortho programs have become more competitive than I have listed, please let me know. 😉
1. Graduate from the right dental school.
2. Keep a dental school GPA of 3.97 or better.
3. Score at least 98 on NBDE 1.
4. Do lots of ortho-related research during dental school.
5. Be really good looking.
6. Speak at least 5 languages fluently.
If you meet all these requirements, your application may not be immediately ripped up by program directors.
If anybody knows of any other requirements, or if ortho programs have become more competitive than I have listed, please let me know. 😉
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Well I called up an ortho program and spoke to the Dean. You are really close but they require 6 languages now 
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To get into an ortho program, and yes it is possible, here's a little help.
#1 Grades/board scores. These will open the door for you, especially the board scores since they're a national standard. In many cases, this will be the only "objective data" that a program director will have to evaluate you
#2 Market your self!!! Go out and do some externships at other schools (your school will know you well enough, now let other programs see how great you are, so they'll want to have you there
#3 Talk to the program director at your school about where you should do an externship. They often are good buddies with some program directors and enemies with others. You're much more likely to ultimately get into a "friendly" school
#4 Research, many ortho programs are now a combined M.S. program, so you'll ultimately have to do some research and write a thesis, so some prior research experience helps
#5 Have a life other than wanting to be an orthodontist. Many program directors will try an put a residency class together that has diverse extra-curicular interests since many programs become a large "family" that likes to have a good time while learning how to bend wires.
Remember, your grades will help get your foot in the door, and then its upto you to sell your self enough to be asked to stay.
#1 Grades/board scores. These will open the door for you, especially the board scores since they're a national standard. In many cases, this will be the only "objective data" that a program director will have to evaluate you
#2 Market your self!!! Go out and do some externships at other schools (your school will know you well enough, now let other programs see how great you are, so they'll want to have you there
#3 Talk to the program director at your school about where you should do an externship. They often are good buddies with some program directors and enemies with others. You're much more likely to ultimately get into a "friendly" school
#4 Research, many ortho programs are now a combined M.S. program, so you'll ultimately have to do some research and write a thesis, so some prior research experience helps
#5 Have a life other than wanting to be an orthodontist. Many program directors will try an put a residency class together that has diverse extra-curicular interests since many programs become a large "family" that likes to have a good time while learning how to bend wires.
Remember, your grades will help get your foot in the door, and then its upto you to sell your self enough to be asked to stay.
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I thought I would reply to this post to give potential orthodontists some hope. I will be graduating dental school in a few weeks and I will begin an ortho residency this summer. I knew that I wanted to ortho when I began dental school, so I have tried to maintain good grades throughout. That said, I am not a stellar student. I graduated undergrad from a state university with a degree in social science. GPA around 3.3. After a couple years of working crappy jobs, I returned to school to pursue ortho, although I knew that it would be difficult just getting through the science classes and later dental school. Nonetheless I made it into dental school (with mediocre grades), but I worked very hard from day one. I maintained good grades in dental school and I will finish with a little over 3.5 GPA. My board scores (Nat'l. I and II) were not above 90. My class ranking was just below top 10. But I still got into an ortho program (not that Jacksonville program either). Maybe I got extremely lucky (I know), but I applied to 22 programs ($$$$) and only got 1 interview. The program director told me he liked my app. and resume. Please understand that if you get an interview, you are on equal ground at that point...it's basically if they think you will fit in with the program and other residents. I guess they liked me! To let you know, I was not a really a "gunner" in school. I did not burn my classmates to get ahead for grades and many of the faculty really liked me and respected me. One other guy in my class (also an ortho to be was notorious for shadiness). When I was accepted, almost every member of my class went out of their way to come and congradulate me. It was awesome. Also, I have NO (nada, zip) connections in the business. My dad is a retired grade school teacher. All that said, I think what really helped me get in was that I had a well-rounded application and some good recommendations. If I didn't get in, I was going to try until successful. I guess my whole point of this posting is that if you want to do ortho, or anything else, don't listen to what everyone is telling you. Don't be secretive about it. Let your professors know your interest. Classmates too. Some people will be skeptical. Just press on. If you want it bad enough, it is achievable. Good luck!!!!
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jda02624:
Thank you for your realistic and down to earth response. I am now completing my third year of dental school and I'll be sending in my applications to ortho programs soon. I've really worked hard and given up through the last three years. My board scores are excellent and my grades are good, but I'm constantly reminded of how difficult it is to get into a program. It's good to know that a well rounded person is still valued. Do you have any advice regarding the application process, any insight about different programs, interviewing etc. Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
Thank you for your realistic and down to earth response. I am now completing my third year of dental school and I'll be sending in my applications to ortho programs soon. I've really worked hard and given up through the last three years. My board scores are excellent and my grades are good, but I'm constantly reminded of how difficult it is to get into a program. It's good to know that a well rounded person is still valued. Do you have any advice regarding the application process, any insight about different programs, interviewing etc. Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
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I would say that the only help I can give you is about the interview because, as I said, I only got 1 out of 22 (but that was enough). FYI, there was another student at my school who got several interviews, his dad's an ortho with some pull at a couple programs, but this guy didn't get in, I feel because he's stiff as a board and I'm sure he was that way in the interview. In your case, it sounds like you will probably be better off than me as far as the number of interviews that you get. Regarding the interview, BE PREPARED. Learn as much about the program and the faculty/program director as possible. For example, learn what research they (the faculty and/or the program director) have published in the ortho journals (this can be found with a MEDLINE search at your school's library). This will give some idea about their interests. Know their background (i.e. where did they receive their education). Talk to people, faculty, etc. at your school to see if they know anything about the program or if they know anyone at the school (ortho, dental, perio, anything) and try to contact them to learn more. Look for connections. Of course do your homework because they will ask you everything and anything. The standard "why do you want to come here?" will be one of the questions. If possible, ask your current faculty to do a mock interview with you. Sounds silly but if you get an interview, it is basically a personality contest (as in can we stand to work with this person closely for the next 2-3 years). I interviewed with 4 faculty members over the course of the day. I think only the program director knew somewhat about my background. The other 3 scanned my app for only a few minutes it seemed. They basically just sat down and talked with me face to face for about 20-30 minutes. My suggestion is to be yourself. Believe me, these people can see through the kiss-ass stuff. Also know that the residents probably have a say in your acceptance. Talk to each and every one of them. Try to remember their names (write them down!). They will give you a feel for what the program is really like. At my interview one question that surprised me was "if you were to choose 3 of your classmates from the other applicants, who would you choose and why?". So talk to the applicants during the down time. There were a couple of guys at the interview that didn't talk to anyone or the residents. They probably didn't have 3 names to give! Would you want to go to school with someone that isn't personable? The programs want someone that they will feel proud to say is an alum of their program. Make them know that that person is you. Finally, send the program director and/or interviewers a thank you note or card after your interview. Even if you hate the program, show some class and express your graditute for the opportunity. Remember, every little thing counts at this stage of the game!!! Good luck!
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JDA:
First, congratulations on your acceptance to an Ortho program. Second, do you mind sharing what dental school you currently attend? Based on your post, if you're just below Top 10 in class rank and your cumulative GPA is at 3.5 (88/100%), then you have a very lucky situation in applying to an Ortho program!
I suppose every class at every dental school is different, but with my class of 99 classmates, a 88% cumulative GPA will put you around the 30th spot in the class rank!
Class ranking is a very important factor in application to specialties, right up there with the cumulative GPA and NDBE Part I score (NDBE Part II is not so much because you will have already matched with a residency program by the time you take the Part II at the end of your forth year).
If indeed your class rank is "just below" Top 10 with your 88% average, then you are very fortunate to be with your class and at your dental school.
You're absolutely right on about not all applications fit the stereotype of "top 2" of your class to get in Ortho or into any other specialties. Just like applying to dental schools, sure you usually have to have good numbers to get accepted, but there are always cases where a 2.43 cumulative undergraduate GPA applicant gets accepted based on his/hers motivation (like me)! 😱
Congrats again and thanks for sharing your story!
😎
First, congratulations on your acceptance to an Ortho program. Second, do you mind sharing what dental school you currently attend? Based on your post, if you're just below Top 10 in class rank and your cumulative GPA is at 3.5 (88/100%), then you have a very lucky situation in applying to an Ortho program!
I suppose every class at every dental school is different, but with my class of 99 classmates, a 88% cumulative GPA will put you around the 30th spot in the class rank!
Class ranking is a very important factor in application to specialties, right up there with the cumulative GPA and NDBE Part I score (NDBE Part II is not so much because you will have already matched with a residency program by the time you take the Part II at the end of your forth year).
If indeed your class rank is "just below" Top 10 with your 88% average, then you are very fortunate to be with your class and at your dental school.
You're absolutely right on about not all applications fit the stereotype of "top 2" of your class to get in Ortho or into any other specialties. Just like applying to dental schools, sure you usually have to have good numbers to get accepted, but there are always cases where a 2.43 cumulative undergraduate GPA applicant gets accepted based on his/hers motivation (like me)! 😱
Congrats again and thanks for sharing your story!
😎
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I don't care to say which school, but my class has 86 students in it. As far as GPA goes, 3.5 is graduation with Honors at my school. At your school (Nova) you say that 30 of 99 are in this range (88/100). I am assuming that this is not so for the graduating class (4 years of school done). Of course it is impossible to compare schools via GPA, but I will say that my class scored within the top 10 in both National Boards part 1 (with 100% pass rate) and part 2 (only 1 partial failure) among the 50+ dental schools in the nation. I sense that you may feel that I'm in a mediocre school or class, but our results on Nat'l Boards reflect the fact that we have a lot of good students. Regardless, grades alone do not reflect skill or potential in the dental field. Some of the best students I know don't give a damn about patient care.
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but I strongly believe that the first and second year of dental school are the GPA building foundation years. By the time you apply to post-graduate residency programs at the end of your 3rd year, your GPA and class rank is pretty much set in stone. 4th year GPA and NBDE Part II score will not have as much effect as the first three years of GPA and NBDE Part I score.
Also, I did not imply that your school is any less than others. If you're taken as such, please forgive me. I just feel that you're in a very fortunate situation with your class rank with a 88% GPA average. Perphaps you're correct, by the time I'm a 4th year, a lot of us in the Top 1/3 now may not be then! I have a 91.5% (3.65 GPA) average now and I'm 17th of my class. 10th place in our class has a cumulative GPA of 92%. As you can see, there are 7 of us that are tenths from one another! The upper 80s range is even more compact, even hundredths of a point can move you up or down the class rank ladder!
GPA, Class rank, and board scores aren't everything, but they are the main "keys" to open a lot of doors in the Specialization world.
Also, I did not imply that your school is any less than others. If you're taken as such, please forgive me. I just feel that you're in a very fortunate situation with your class rank with a 88% GPA average. Perphaps you're correct, by the time I'm a 4th year, a lot of us in the Top 1/3 now may not be then! I have a 91.5% (3.65 GPA) average now and I'm 17th of my class. 10th place in our class has a cumulative GPA of 92%. As you can see, there are 7 of us that are tenths from one another! The upper 80s range is even more compact, even hundredths of a point can move you up or down the class rank ladder!
GPA, Class rank, and board scores aren't everything, but they are the main "keys" to open a lot of doors in the Specialization world.
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I totally agree with you on this. To say that I'm fortunate is being polite. I'm real f'n lucky, I know. I'll take that any day. I did work hard, but I think luck or fate or the stars lined up for me in this case. As far as GPA and class rank goes, you'll see how much everything can change once you get into the clinic. Some people end up inheriting crap from their senior student, while others are totally hooked-up. My roomate had the majority of his good patients (i.e. requirements) transferred (unknowingly at the time) to another student in my class by his senior buddy. They just happened to both belong to a certain church based in Utah, but that's another forum subject altogether. You are also correct in that your ranking is pretty much set in stone by the end of third year. I guess that's good in that if you apply to specialty and get in, you can, if you want to, to ease up somewhat. I couldn't do that because I barely finished my requirements on time.
I have a question for you Yah-E, what is the attitude in Florida about that new ortho "school" at Jacksonville University? I'm curious to see how they'll do. That company also basically bought a new program at U. of Colorado for something like $90 million. I don't think many orthodontists or ortho schools are happy about it. Any comments?
I have a question for you Yah-E, what is the attitude in Florida about that new ortho "school" at Jacksonville University? I'm curious to see how they'll do. That company also basically bought a new program at U. of Colorado for something like $90 million. I don't think many orthodontists or ortho schools are happy about it. Any comments?
haha....so are all dental schools like this....some students just get hooked up and breeze through clinic requirements while others have to do it all in the last semester? haha...BY FAR the most frustrating part of dental school here, you can only work as hard as they let you, haha...congrats by the way
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I'm not entirely certain about the Ortho program at Jacksonville. From what I've heard from upper classmen and faculty members, they are all a little skeptical. First, the program is not accredited and secondly, I guess the program requires you to work for them for a X amount of YEARS after the completion of the program. I can imagine how Ortho programs around the country can be a little irritated about this new way to get into Ortho.
My feeling is just that if you continue to provide "new" opportunities for dental students to get into Ortho programs, then maybe the competitiveness of the application process will decrease a little?
An admissions/recruiter from Jacksonville's Ortho program will be visiting our school to provide more information about the program for our upper classmen who are interested. If I hear anything more, I'll be sure to share.
My feeling is just that if you continue to provide "new" opportunities for dental students to get into Ortho programs, then maybe the competitiveness of the application process will decrease a little?
An admissions/recruiter from Jacksonville's Ortho program will be visiting our school to provide more information about the program for our upper classmen who are interested. If I hear anything more, I'll be sure to share.
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Partial failure meaning the guy failed only one section of the board (pharm. for ex.). I believe he only had to retake that section over. As far as the Jacksonville school goes, the did receive "provisional" accreditation is what I heard. I also heard the AAO is suing somebody over this for allowing the accreditation. I don't if this is true.
The program requires a 7 year obligation to work for their company. I think they have 20 spots, and 16 are under this contract. The other 4 don't have any obligation to the company, but they have to pay all expenses for school, etc. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out.
The program requires a 7 year obligation to work for their company. I think they have 20 spots, and 16 are under this contract. The other 4 don't have any obligation to the company, but they have to pay all expenses for school, etc. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out.
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I'm going to try and get ortho but I'm not placing any expectations on being an orthodontist. It is really challenging to become an orhtodonstist from what I was told. You have to be ranked in the top 5 and score 90% or above on your boards to stand a good chance.
I have heard that the top 5 at any dental school not only work extremely hard but that they are gifted as well. Everyone is intelligent at dental school but these are the people that you were awed by how intelligent they are. I don't know of any normal people who studied their way to becoming an orthodontist.
I think OMS is pretty attainable though provided that you work hard of course. Not that OMS is any less of a field than Ortho but it is less appealing because of the residency associated with it.
I have heard that the top 5 at any dental school not only work extremely hard but that they are gifted as well. Everyone is intelligent at dental school but these are the people that you were awed by how intelligent they are. I don't know of any normal people who studied their way to becoming an orthodontist.
I think OMS is pretty attainable though provided that you work hard of course. Not that OMS is any less of a field than Ortho but it is less appealing because of the residency associated with it.
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On August 1, the ADA granted the Jacksonville Orthodontics program IA (initial accreditation). It's previous status was provisional accreditation.
Initial Accreditation is the accreditation classification granted to any dental, advanced dental or allied dental education program which is in the planning and early stages of development or an intermediate stage of program implementation and not yet fully operational. This accreditation classification provides evidence to educational institutions, licensing bodies, government or other granting agencies that, at the time of initial evaluation(s), the developing education program has the potential for meeting the standards set forth in the requirements for an accredited educational program for the specific occupational area. The classification "initial accreditation" is granted based upon one or more site evaluation visit(s) and until the program is fully operational.
Initial Accreditation is the accreditation classification granted to any dental, advanced dental or allied dental education program which is in the planning and early stages of development or an intermediate stage of program implementation and not yet fully operational. This accreditation classification provides evidence to educational institutions, licensing bodies, government or other granting agencies that, at the time of initial evaluation(s), the developing education program has the potential for meeting the standards set forth in the requirements for an accredited educational program for the specific occupational area. The classification "initial accreditation" is granted based upon one or more site evaluation visit(s) and until the program is fully operational.
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You can't have a partial failure on part 2 - you get one score and either an H, A, or L for each section.
H - higher than average
A - average
L- Lower than average
One of my best friends got mostly L's but still passed the exam with over 75 (barely but did it!).
Marquette also had the connection that jda was talking about and one particular guy got hooked up when it came time for clinic. The funny thing is one guy couldn't even pass part 1 and he was almost done all his requirements by first semester junior year!
H - higher than average
A - average
L- Lower than average
One of my best friends got mostly L's but still passed the exam with over 75 (barely but did it!).
Marquette also had the connection that jda was talking about and one particular guy got hooked up when it came time for clinic. The funny thing is one guy couldn't even pass part 1 and he was almost done all his requirements by first semester junior year!
C
chinni
can anyone tell me the address from where i can get CD's about orthodontics for low price or second hand or any other source.
i will be thankful to your reply.😍
i will be thankful to your reply.😍
