Orthopedist vs. Podiatrist

[Fossil]

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Hello Everyone,
I just got a quick question based on the following website:
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm - Why an Orthopedist (ORS - Foot & Ankle) get paid more than a podiatrist even though they generally do the same prodeures?
Any mature & professional input will be appreciated.
thanks

 

[ProdPod]

Hello Everyone,
I just got a quick question based on the following website:
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm - Why an Orthopedist (ORS - Foot & Ankle) get paid more than a podiatrist even though they generally do the same prodeures?
Any mature & professional input will be appreciated.
thanks

The foot & ankle ortho guy usually does more general ortho trauma. Also in some states they get to bill more which is discriminate in law but is changing. Another factoid is that pods differ in practice. Some do only woundcare or C&C or surgery. These all make the salary table kinda off.

 

[jonwill]

The foot & ankle ortho guy usually does more general ortho trauma. Also in some states they get to bill more which is discriminate in law but is changing. Another factoid is that pods differ in practice. Some do only woundcare or C&C or surgery. These all make the salary table kinda off.

ProdPod hit it right on the head. While foot & ankle orthopods do a lot of lower limb, they still take general ortho call. Obviously, podiatric physicians cannot do this.

 

[oncogene]

the reality is that the orthopods do get the general ortho that will generate a pretty substantial amount to their bottom line but, The real problem is that pods don't get the same amount of money for the same procedures. I think that is the biggest problem pods are facing. That my friends is discrimination. Someone show me the proof that something is being done about it. I have a real sore spot when it comes to this issue.

 

[ProdPod]

the reality is that the orthopods do get the general ortho that will generate a pretty substantial amount to their bottom line but, The real problem is that pods don't get the same amount of money for the same procedures. I think that is the biggest problem pods are facing. That my friends is discrimination. Someone show me the proof that something is being done about it. I have a real sore spot when it comes to this issue.

I believe things changed in Maryland & Cali about two years ago to terminate this practice but in other states there still needs change. I bet if the ortho guy is inserting an IM nail, they can also bill for a stiendler stripping at the same time. LOL

 

[Dr. Foot]

"The real problem is that pods don't get the same amount of money for the same procedures"

I am just wondering if any of APMSA, Podiatry Schools, Current Podiatrist or any other podiatric organization (ex. PICA) have taken any steps toward solving this problem?
Thanks

 

[krabmas]

"The real problem is that pods don't get the same amount of money for the same procedures"

I am just wondering if any of APMSA, Podiatry Schools, Current Podiatrist or any other podiatric organization (ex. PICA) have taken any steps toward solving this problem?
Thanks

Yes, the podiatric political action committee, PPAC works to get things changed. Government and politics are slow to change.

 

[dawg44]

Hello Everyone,
I just got a quick question based on the following website:
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm - Why an Orthopedist (ORS - Foot & Ankle) get paid more than a podiatrist even though they generally do the same prodeures?
Any mature & professional input will be appreciated.
thanks

I recently talked to a CEO and a medical director of a very large hospital and asked him why they were recruiting a foot and ankle orthopod despite having 4 DPM's on staff. His answer, there are just a ton of cases that they can't handle and we have to send them downtown and if we get a foot and ankle orthopod it is the end of the line. Those were their words and another reason why you see alot of salaries starting in the 350 range for F&A orthopods.

 

[jonwill]

I recently talked to a CEO and a medical director of a very large hospital and asked him why they were recruiting a foot and ankle orthopod despite having 4 DPM's on staff. His answer, there are just a ton of cases that they can't handle and we have to send them downtown and if we get a foot and ankle orthopod it is the end of the line. Those were their words and another reason why you see alot of salaries starting in the 350 range for F&A orthopods.

I guess I'm a little confused as to what an F&A orthopod could handle that a pod couldn't unless it was out of scope. I guess it would also depend on the training of the pods there. Any ideas?

 

[krabmas]

I recently talked to a CEO and a medical director of a very large hospital and asked him why they were recruiting a foot and ankle orthopod despite having 4 DPM's on staff. His answer, there are just a ton of cases that they can't handle and we have to send them downtown and if we get a foot and ankle orthopod it is the end of the line. Those were their words and another reason why you see alot of salaries starting in the 350 range for F&A orthopods.

Isn't 350 the starting range for any orthopedist? SO it would only make sense that the foot and ankle orthopod would make about the same.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Now I understand why orthopods still have Foot and Ankle Fellowships. Not b/c they are need b/c they make twice as much as for the same work. I understand the whole thing with being on call but things can easily change. They could keep an podiatrist on call for foot and ankle trauma.

 

[oncogene]

Now I understand why orthopods still have Foot and Ankle Fellowships. Not b/c they are need b/c they make twice as much as for the same work. I understand the whole thing with being on call but things can easily change. They could keep an podiatrist on call for foot and ankle trauma.

Doesn' t this whole issue just fire you up! I just don't understand how a whole profession just lets this happen to them. The pods are the best at this stuff but we just let it happen. jonwill, I would like your input?

 

[doclm]

Now I understand why orthopods still have Foot and Ankle Fellowships. Not b/c they are need b/c they make twice as much as for the same work. I understand the whole thing with being on call but things can easily change. They could keep an podiatrist on call for foot and ankle trauma.

Could it possibly be that the Orthopod puts in many more hours per year than the DPM? Because of being on call for other cases and attending to more patients overall? Just an idea.

Although, everyday I see how much doctors work in a hospital setting, I am unsure of how much Podiatrists really work? Is it the same hours as Ortho when they are highly surgically trained within a hospital?

Personally, I would rather make 180-200K with 40 hour weeks, than 350K working 60 hour weeks with call on most weekends. Mostly all the MD's I know get paged at least once per day that there are on call. Either it be lab ordering issues or dramatic changes in vitals. However, Orthopods may not have to worry about all the maintenance like the other docs would?

 

[jonwill]

Doesn' t this whole issue just fire you up! I just don't understand how a whole profession just lets this happen to them. The pods are the best at this stuff but we just let it happen. jonwill, I would like your input?

Well, first of all, the pay inequity isn't just against DPM's so don't take it personally. The healthcare system itself is full of inequities whether it be medicare or insurance companies. For example, medicare pays an Iowa MD much less than a Louisiana MD for performing the same procedure. It is a marketplace issue really. Remember, insurance is a state regulated industry so this has to be dealt with on a state level. There are really just a handful of insurance companies that discriminate against DPM's. The problem is, in some of the states, they are the larger companies. This is being dealt with state to state. The state podiatric medical society is the place to take your concerns. The issue is known as the "Same Pay for Same Services Law".

I know that in Iowa, they have made great strides over the past few years. The difference is now minimal in most cases. Needless to say, the issue IS being dealt with. The following states now have same pay for same service laws as of January 2005:
Arkansas, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Washington, and West Virginia. Still other states are close.

Podiatric medicine and surgery has come a long way over the past 20 years. It is going to take insurance companies and the government a while to catch up!

 

[krabmas]

Well, first of all, the pay inequity isn't just against DPM's so don't take it personally. The healthcare system itself is full of inequities whether it be medicare or insurance companies. For example, medicare pays an Iowa MD much less than a Louisiana MD for performing the same procedure. It is a marketplace issue really. Remember, insurance is a state regulated industry so this has to be dealt with on a state level. There are really just a handful of insurance companies that discriminate against DPM's. The problem is, in some of the states, they are the larger companies. This is being dealt with state to state. The state podiatric medical society is the place to take your concerns. The issue is known as the "Same Pay for Same Services Law".

I know that in Iowa, they have made great strides over the past few years. The difference is now minimal in most cases. Needless to say, the issue IS being dealt with. The following states now have same pay for same service laws as of January 2005:
Arkansas, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Washington, and West Virginia. Still other states are close.

Podiatric medicine and surgery has come a long way over the past 20 years. It is going to take insurance companies and the government a while to catch up!

Just incase you all want to know the $10 word for "the same pay for the same service" is Parity.

I just had to add that b/c it is not often that someone gets to correct the all knowing Jonwill.

 

[krabmas]

Could it possibly be that the Orthopod puts in many more hours per year than the DPM? Because of being on call for other cases and attending to more patients overall? Just an idea.

Although, everyday I see how much doctors work in a hospital setting, I am unsure of how much Podiatrists really work? Is it the same hours as Ortho when they are highly surgically trained within a hospital?

Personally, I would rather make 180-200K with 40 hour weeks, than 350K working 60 hour weeks with call on most weekends. Mostly all the MD's I know get paged at least once per day that there are on call. Either it be lab ordering issues or dramatic changes in vitals. However, Orthopods may not have to worry about all the maintenance like the other docs would?

Some hospitals give all docs the same badge with MD on it so you would not even know if it was a DPM. this happens at some of the hospitals that we rotate thru in NYC. Some of the DPMs that teach at NYCPM have MD on their badges for the hospitals.

 

[IlizaRob]

Some hospitals give all docs the same badge with MD on it so you would not even know if it was a DPM. this happens at some of the hospitals that we rotate thru in NYC. Some of the DPMs that teach at NYCPM have MD on their badges for the hospitals.

That doesnt sound right. Those DPMs are fine with it?

 

[Pin-Lag-Lock]

I recently talked to a CEO and a medical director of a very large hospital and asked him why they were recruiting a foot and ankle orthopod despite having 4 DPM's on staff. His answer, there are just a ton of cases that they can't handle and we have to send them downtown and if we get a foot and ankle orthopod it is the end of the line. Those were their words and another reason why you see alot of salaries starting in the 350 range for F&A orthopods.

I have been out looking for a job as a general orthopedist and would say 350K is definately above average even for someone who is fellowship trained. The average salary for a general orthopedist is more like 275K (range 150K-450K). There are many factors involved such as location; California vs. Nebraska, fellowship; spine vs. peds, hospital employee vs. group, years of experience, board certification, on and on. In response to your post, I suspect the DPMs on staff either may be limited by the training they received as residents or may not want to deal with the headaches associated with the cases they send away. If hospital is looking for the "end of the line", that is someone that will take every case that comes in, then they should pay you well (they should give you a boat load of money). I am in the process of completing my fellowship and will not jump at every difficult case that comes in. I plan on practicing in a community hospital and it is not possible to do big cases without help in the OR and on the floors. In short, everyday life would be h*ll thats why some patients go downtown to the university hospital. As far as general orthopedic call goes, everybody contributes, and call is a nuisance. I know of no orthopod that claims to make alot of money taking ER crap. Most orthopods try to minimize ER call and focus on building a large elective practice. Just offering another viewpoint. Congrats on your fellowship and wish you the best with your future.

 

[jonwill]

I have been out looking for a job as a general orthopedist and would say 350K is definately above average even for someone who is fellowship trained. The average salary for a general orthopedist is more like 275K (range 150K-450K). There are many factors involved such as location; California vs. Nebraska, fellowship; spine vs. peds, hospital employee vs. group, years of experience, board certification, on and on. In response to your post, I suspect the DPMs on staff either may be limited by the training they received as residents or may not want to deal with the headaches associated with the cases they send away. If hospital is looking for the "end of the line", that is someone that will take every case that comes in, then they should pay you well (they should give you a boat load of money). I am in the process of completing my fellowship and will not jump at every difficult case that comes in. I plan on practicing in a community hospital and it is not possible to do big cases without help in the OR and on the floors. In short, everyday life would be h*ll thats why some patients go downtown to the university hospital. As far as general orthopedic call goes, everybody contributes, and call is a nuisance. I know of no orthopod that claims to make alot of money taking ER crap. Most orthopods try to minimize ER call and focus on building a large elective practice. Just offering another viewpoint. Congrats on your fellowship and wish you the best with your future.

Very informative post! 👍

 

[krabmas]

That doesnt sound right. Those DPMs are fine with it?

It is not what they sign or stamp on patient forms... just the badge. I guess the DPMs are fine with it?
I don't think that they care either way?

 

[Podman]

It is not what they sign or stamp on patient forms... just the badge. I guess the DPMs are fine with it?
I don't think that they care either way?

I know of a hospital that just allows you to use the "Dr." title without your degree - so you literally see a mosaic of MD's, DO's, and DPM's and would never be able to distinguish them apart in their white coats. Personally, I'd rather have the "DPM" title by my name because it identifies who i am and what i am trained to do.

 

[FamilyMD]

Some hospitals give all docs the same badge with MD on it so you would not even know if it was a DPM. this happens at some of the hospitals that we rotate thru in NYC. Some of the DPMs that teach at NYCPM have MD on their badges for the hospitals.

This really sounds fishy to me. As chair of my hospital credentialing committee and w/much experience with hospital administration I find this non-believable. It is a huge liability risk for the hospital. Ex: pt gets ill from procedure or medicatin side effect. Pt: "but I thought he WAS an MD". Whether relevant or not, trial lawyer would have a field day with "deceptive practices and misrepresentation". When I got an MBA, I had to submit PROOF to get MD, MBA on my badge!
Again, I would bet the farm this poster is B.S.'ing.

 

[dpmgrad]

Some hospitals give all docs the same badge with MD on it so you would not even know if it was a DPM. this happens at some of the hospitals that we rotate thru in NYC. Some of the DPMs that teach at NYCPM have MD on their badges for the hospitals.

It is possible that the hospital does not have DPM programmed into their computer system. Hence, the Podiatrist may get a MD on their name tag. When I externed at some programs, there were hospitals where Podiatrists got MD on their ID tag. Of course, this means nothing because the insurance carrier and Medicare still defines the Podiatrst as a DPM and not a MD.

 

[doclm]

It is possible that the hospital does not have DPM programmed into their computer system. Hence, the Podiatrist may get a MD on their name tag. When I externed at some programs, there were hospitals where Podiatrists got MD on their ID tag. Of course, this means nothing because the insurance carrier and Medicare still defines the Podiatrst as a DPM and not a MD.

I believe its all about the system involved in ordering name tags. Some times there are not options for DPM, MBBS MCh, ect.... and instead the computer automatically orders it.

For example, I have seen many Docs who should have the MBBS degree on their name tags, actually have MD. Also, I have heard of DO's that rotate through certain hospitals, get the MD name tag as well.

 

[jays2cool4u]

This really sounds fishy to me. As chair of my hospital credentialing committee and w/much experience with hospital administration I find this non-believable. It is a huge liability risk for the hospital. Ex: pt gets ill from procedure or medicatin side effect. Pt: "but I thought he WAS an MD". Whether relevant or not, trial lawyer would have a field day with "deceptive practices and misrepresentation". When I got an MBA, I had to submit PROOF to get MD, MBA on my badge!
Again, I would bet the farm this poster is B.S.'ing.

If you were chair of a hospital credentialing committee you wouldn't be wasting your time on SDN. I would bet the farm you are BSing.

 

[FamilyMD]

If you were chair of a hospital credentialing committee you wouldn't be wasting your time on SDN. I would bet the farm you are BSing.

Well, then you would lose your farm ! I have nothing to prove to you so believe what you want...then again I guess you are "2 cool" to be wrong huh?? OO OO can I be "2 cool" too? LOL

 

[jays2cool4u]

Well, then you would lose your farm ! I have nothing to prove to you so believe what you want...then again I guess you are "2 cool" to be wrong huh?? OO OO can I be "2 cool" too? LOL

Big hospital administrator wasting more time playing on the internet during work hours. I love the credentialing staff where you work. No one believes you. DPMgrad proved you wrong.

 

[FamilyMD]

Big hospital administrator wasting more time playing on the internet during work hours. I love the credentialing staff where you work. No one believes you. DPMgrad proved you wrong.

I would reply but you are just way "2 Cool" for me.....

 

[jays2cool4u]

I would reply but you are just way "2 Cool" for me.....

This is the only thing you've posted that I totally believe. At least you know your role.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

 

[JointDocMD]

Some hospitals give all docs the same badge with MD on it so you would not even know if it was a DPM. this happens at some of the hospitals that we rotate thru in NYC. Some of the DPMs that teach at NYCPM have MD on their badges for the hospitals.

if true (and i certainly doubt it is) this is an outrage. that's lying to the patient right out of the gate.

 

[FamilyMD]

if true (and i certainly doubt it is) this is an outrage. that's lying to the patient right out of the gate.

Let these feet guys believe what they want and fantasize what they will have their badge say. I assure you NO HOSPITAL in its right mind would allow this for the liability reasons I posted above. Clear misrepresentation and deception that even a law student could cream a hospital with. Why do you people think we have CREDENTIALING committee whose SOLE purpose it is to decide what you can and can't do based on your credentials and training. This is to protect the hospital's butt in a lawsuit. Why would it then go and misrepresent and deceive patients by letting a DPM wear an MD badge. Total fantasy my friends.
But as with most of these message boards, if enough people repeat a falsehood, it gets accepted as truth.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Is there some sort of spray we can get to rid ourselves of these trolls? Go away no one wants you here. Why do these idiots come post here? My only thought is that they are premed, no med, or the losers of their med schools. I’m sorry but I’ll never be back here after I graduate.

My next thought is do either of you work in the hospital???? I'm sure that the answer is no. SO WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU COMMENTING??? Krabmas is a very honest woman, who is in her 4th year of medical school. I know that this is a fact.

Just like an MD, always right. My question is how dumb was familymd? An MD that had to settle for a family practice, I thought that was what DOs became and MDs were the "important doctors."

Jointdocmd, if you are a med student as your profile claims, then where are you in your education? Have you even worked in a hospital? Also, good luck becoming an orthopod you had better stop wasting your time on SDN or you'll be a FP like familymd.

 

[jonwill]

Let these feet guys believe what they want and fantasize what they will have their badge say. I assure you NO HOSPITAL in its right mind would allow this for the liability reasons I posted above. Clear misrepresentation and deception that even a law student could cream a hospital with. Why do you people think we have CREDENTIALING committee whose SOLE purpose it is to decide what you can and can't do based on your credentials and training. This is to protect the hospital's butt in a lawsuit. Why would it then go and misrepresent and deceive patients by letting a DPM wear an MD badge. Total fantasy my friends.
But as with most of these message boards, if enough people repeat a falsehood, it gets accepted as truth.

While I agree with you that it isn't right that a DPM is wearing an MD badge, I don't think any of us fantasize about being MD's. While it is "deception", to the lay person, a doctor is a doctor. A DPM isn't going to try and do open heart surgery just as a heart surgeon wouldn't attempt to do an ORIF of a pilon fracture. In other words, every doctor should know his/her limitations regardless of the letters behind his/her name. No patient is in any real danger because of this so EVERYBODY SETTLE DOWN!

But if this is happening, FamilyMD is right in that this is (or would be) a legal and logistical nightmare. A litigator could have a lot of fun with degree misrepresentation!

 

[FamilyMD]

While I agree with you that it isn't right that a DPM is wearing an MD badge, I don't think any of us fantasize about being MD's.

Then why on earth would a DPM wear, and therefore identify, himself as something he isn't. I certainly would refuse to have DDS, DPM, PhD, whatever after my name if I haven't earned it. As stated above, you would not believe the hassle I had just to have MBA added.

 

[jonwill]

Then why on earth would a DPM wear, and therefore identify, himself as something he isn't. I certainly would refuse to have DDS, DPM, PhD, whatever after my name if I haven't earned it. As stated above, you would not believe the hassle I had just to have MBA added.

No clue but I guess I'll wear what the hospital gives me!

 

[capo]

FamilyMD, why do YOU care what a given hospital's badge says? Really don't you have better things to do to prepare for your patients, then bantering on here? 😕

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

FamilyMD, why do YOU care what a given hospital's badge says? Really don't you have better things to do to prepare for your patients, then bantering on here? 😕

Don't waste your time w/ this guy. I looked at his posts and all he does is insult people, which tells me one of two things: either he isn't for real, or he was such a failure in med school that he makes himself big by insulting others. Either way he is a troll.

His posting history is: insults optometrists, insults an ER doc, claims he is a super rich doctor who works 37 hrs/week, insults pharmacists, insults another poster who I assume has a law degree and a medical degree, and finally he insults us. He has never once posted anything that has been positive or enhanced SDN. Frankly, I say we kill this talk and push the scum back to the hole he came from.

 

[IlizaRob]

Let these feet guys believe what they want and fantasize what they will have their badge say. I assure you NO HOSPITAL in its right mind would allow this for the liability reasons I posted above. Clear misrepresentation and deception that even a law student could cream a hospital with. Why do you people think we have CREDENTIALING committee whose SOLE purpose it is to decide what you can and can't do based on your credentials and training. This is to protect the hospital's butt in a lawsuit. Why would it then go and misrepresent and deceive patients by letting a DPM wear an MD badge. Total fantasy my friends.
But as with most of these message boards, if enough people repeat a falsehood, it gets accepted as truth.

While I agree to "kill this talk" (I dont know how we always seem to get into pissing contests) I will add just a few things. First, Krabmas was making an observation. Obviously she cant prove anything here on the internet so lets just take her word for it. Secondly, DOs get MD badges all the time. Ive seen it. Why would that be any different? Plus, as JonWill said, I dont think anyone was claiming that this is right. I would definitely not want to wear a title that I didnt have. This is another ridiculous argument. Whats with all hte anger and defensiveness?

 

[doclm]

Let these feet guys believe what they want and fantasize what they will have their badge say. I assure you NO HOSPITAL in its right mind would allow this for the liability reasons I posted above. Clear misrepresentation and deception that even a law student could cream a hospital with. Why do you people think we have CREDENTIALING committee whose SOLE purpose it is to decide what you can and can't do based on your credentials and training. This is to protect the hospital's butt in a lawsuit. Why would it then go and misrepresent and deceive patients by letting a DPM wear an MD badge. Total fantasy my friends.
But as with most of these message boards, if enough people repeat a falsehood, it gets accepted as truth.

First of all, you cannot be sure that all hospitals don't do this. I know this has happened to some MBBS and DO docs within an allopathic dominate hospital. A name tag means nothing. You can look under the profile of these doctors and see that they are listed as MBBS, DO, ect.... but their name tag due to simple ordering systems that may not identify certain professions with certain degrees.
For example, I have a friend that works with me in the clinical lab at Mayo, who had some weird thing happen to his name tag when ordering a new one. Usually, in the laboratory profession you have MLT's or MT's that perform and read lab tests. However, at Mayo they accept some people that only have B.S. degrees in a hard science and with a certain amount of training we can do the same job and pay as a board certified lab technologist. As B.S. in science we do not get recognition initials behind our name tags. However, this friend of mine ordered his name tag and the labeling system put a B.S. after his name, clinical lab technician, hospital clinical lab. By no means is he certified to do lab technician anywhere else besides Mayo, and B.S. is not a lab degree. I will say this very clearly, Mayo has to be one of the most organized hospitals in the U.S. and if they can mess something up like this, I highly believe this can happen else where.

What I think is the most important is to look at what department each doctor is from. I bet that the DPM's that have accidentally have had MD's put on their name tag, have the Podiatry Department listed on them. I think that is what really counts with the legal aspects of different specialties.

 

[doclm]

if true (and i certainly doubt it is) this is an outrage. that's lying to the patient right out of the gate.

Not really........

I think that a Podiatric patient would view a DPM, the doctor who is working with their foot and ankle condition, as their "medical doctor".

Well, according to Websters a Doctor is: "one skilled or specializing in healing arts; especially : a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian who is licensed to practice"

Also, according to Websters a DPM is:"doctor of podiatric medicine"

One more thing... from the last time I checked, Podiatric Medicine deals with the "medical" conditions of the foot and ankle.

So, in a hospital when a Podiatric patient needs to see a specialized doctor for their foot and ankle condition, it would not be lying to the patient for a DPM to be thier "medical doctor".

 

[Podman]

why must any discussions involving MD's turn into a circus show?

I happen to agree that a DPM wearing an MD coat is misrepresentation - obviously i understand and hope that the DPM is not scrubbing to do open heart surgery, rather i'm sure he/she is performing the services he/she is trained to do. That being said, a DPM title indicates to the staff, colleagues, and more importantly the patients of who we are and what we are trained and qualified to do.

A DO given an MD title on his coat is usually not as big of a deal because his training is very parallel to that of the MD. Our case is completely different, we're foot and ankle specialists - thats a specialty on its own that is not covered by the "MD" title (for the record, i'm not just referring to foot and ankle surgery - but Lower extremity conditions in general).

But going back to the "MD" label on the coat, you'll see that many hospitals have the department or specialty as well - so it would say John Doe, MD dermatology. The specialty in my opinion is just as important as the designated degree if not more important. As a patient, I'd like to know if Dr. Doe is a dermatologist, cardiologist, neurologist, or even a podiatrist.

 

[aphistis]

Not really........

I think that a Podiatric patient would view a DPM, the doctor who is working with their foot and ankle condition, as their "medical doctor".

Well, according to Websters a Doctor is: "one skilled or specializing in healing arts; especially : a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian who is licensed to practice"

Also, according to Websters a DPM is:"doctor of podiatric medicine"

One more thing... from the last time I checked, Podiatric Medicine deals with the "medical" conditions of the foot and ankle.

So, in a hospital when a Podiatric patient needs to see a specialized doctor for their foot and ankle condition, it would not be lying to the patient for a DPM to be thier "medical doctor".

This seems like a pretty tortured attempt at rationalizing the idea that DPM and MD degrees are equivalent and interchangeable. I'm with Podman here--if you're a podiatrist, wear the DPM proudly and identify yourself as what you are. If people don't appreciate the depth & scope of your training, that's a problem to be solved through patient/public education.

Misrepresenting yourself ("you" in the generic sense) is not only unethical, it cheapens & denigrates everything you've worked so hard for, by implying that your degree can't stand on its own.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Obviously you both didn't read the original posters comments, the doctors didn't request the badge; they did not embroider MD after their name. The hospital has one badge, and all physicians get one badge. To me, I think that it is silly to put alphabet soup on a badge, anywho, who cares? If a pod is doing anything out of scope, they are liable if they have DPM, MD, or nothing on their badge. This argument keeps drifting back towards do DPMs want to be or think they are MDs. I'm not going to get into that.

Podman, you brought up training. I'm not sure what you do at Ohio, but at CPMS we learn about medicine. I think that is what they learn at DO/MD programs. Good luck on the boards if you study kung fu at Ohio.

 

[IlizaRob]

This seems like a pretty tortured attempt at rationalizing the idea that DPM and MD degrees are equivalent and interchangeable. I'm with Podman here--if you're a podiatrist, wear the DPM proudly and identify yourself as what you are. If people don't appreciate the depth & scope of your training, that's a problem to be solved through patient/public education.

Misrepresenting yourself ("you" in the generic sense) is not only unethical, it cheapens & denigrates everything you've worked so hard for, by implying that your degree can't stand on its own.

This is exactly how threads turn into nonsense. No one is rationalizing that the DPM should have an MD badge. No one is saying an MD badge on a DPM is appropriate and no one is saying that DPMs are not proud of their degree. To think that is complete ingnorance. Read the post. An observation was made, things happen at hospitals that shouldnt, and suddenly we are not proud of being who we are? Even if a pod asked for an MD badge, do you think the hospital would give it to him? This can only happen by fault of the hospital.

 

[Podman]

Obviously you both didn't read the original posters comments, the doctors didn't request the badge; they did not embroider MD after their name. The hospital has one badge, and all physicians get one badge. To me, I think that it is silly to put alphabet soup on a badge, anywho, who cares? If a pod is doing anything out of scope, they are liable if they have DPM, MD, or nothing on their badge. This argument keeps drifting back towards do DPMs want to be or think they are MDs. I'm not going to get into that.

Podman, you brought up training. I'm not sure what you do at Ohio, but at CPMS we learn about medicine. I think that is what they learn at DO/MD programs. Good luck on the boards if you study kung fu at Ohio.

ok why can't you continue a discussion in a more civilized manner? I study medicine too my friend - we're supposed to be future colleagues so there's no need to throw in a childish comment like "studying kung fu". And where did i say that we don't study medicine? We definately do, we do rotations at university hospitals as well. Just because I don't agree with DPM wearing MD badges that doesn't mean that i'm discrediting our credentials.

When I talk about training, I say podiatric training - we all graduate with DPMs and most of us do a podiatric medicine and surgery residency - yes we do a PGY-1 in our first year with other MD's and DO's but our training is still within the scope and specialty of lower extremity - is this not what we're training to become? Did I say anything wrong or did I misunderstand the whole purpose of our profession?

At any rate, good luck to you as well with the boards.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

And where did i say that we don't study medicine

A DO given an MD title on his coat is usually not as big of a deal because his training is very parallel to that of the MD. Our case is completely different, we're foot and ankle specialists - thats a specialty on its own that is not covered by the "MD" title (for the record, i'm not just referring to foot and ankle surgery - but Lower extremity conditions in general).

Completely different? You make it sound like we study botany not medicine. We have the privilege to see what DOs go through everyday at DMU and our training is not that different.

Just because I don't agree with DPM wearing MD badges that doesn't mean that i'm discrediting our credentials.

That is exactly what you did. You said above that we have training that is not equal to that of an MD/DO. I completely disagree with that. I think that we parallel their training, we are just specialized early.

I respect your opinion and if you wrote I disagree with them having the same, that is great; but do not degrade the training that of podiatry. I take pride in my profession and take offense w/ anyone who seems to discount it.

Thank you for the good luck and back at ya. 😀

 

[Podman]

And where did i say that we don't study medicine



Completely different? You make it sound like we study botany not medicine. We have the privilege to see what DOs go through everyday at DMU and our training is not that different.



That is exactly what you did. You said above that we have training that is not equal to that of an MD/DO. I completely disagree with that. I think that we parallel their training, we are just specialized early.

I respect your opinion and if you wrote I disagree with them having the same, that is great; but do not degrade the training that of podiatry. I take pride in my profession and take offense w/ anyone who seems to discount it.

Thank you for the good luck and back at ya. 😀

I take pride in my profession as well and clearly there is a misunderstanding here. When I say we are different. I mean so in the sense of our scope and specialization - yes we specialize early and we diagnose and treat conditions specifically pertained to the Lower extremity. This is the case in all schools - DMU, temple, ohio, all of them. We learn medicine as well but our specialty is podiatric medicine - so its not the same as allopathic in the sense that we start emphasizing lower extremity early on - that is what i meant by having a "different" training.

I still don't see how i "degraded" our training. While you have the previlidge of attending classes with DO's - guess what, I study the same subjects as well and we do some rotations with MD's at university hospitals so obviously podiatric training is strong - but different and my friend different doesn't mean weaker or stronger.

At any rate, there's no point in arguing about the semantics - i respect your passion about our profession because i feel the same as well...

anyways, I should probably get back to studying for boards - or maybe "kung fu" 😉

 

[doclm]

This is exactly how threads turn into nonsense. No one is rationalizing that the DPM should have an MD badge. No one is saying an MD badge on a DPM is appropriate and no one is saying that DPMs are not proud of their degree. To think that is complete ingnorance. Read the post. An observation was made, things happen at hospitals that shouldnt, and suddenly we are not proud of being who we are? Even if a pod asked for an MD badge, do you think the hospital would give it to him? This can only happen by fault of the hospital.

👍 Agreed

 

[doclm]

This seems like a pretty tortured attempt at rationalizing the idea that DPM and MD degrees are equivalent and interchangeable. I'm with Podman here--if you're a podiatrist, wear the DPM proudly and identify yourself as what you are. If people don't appreciate the depth & scope of your training, that's a problem to be solved through patient/public education.

Misrepresenting yourself ("you" in the generic sense) is not only unethical, it cheapens & denigrates everything you've worked so hard for, by implying that your degree can't stand on its own.

I am not saying that DPM and MD degrees are equivalent. The MD is way more generalized in the entire body, however the DPM degree is a medical specialty of the human body. Like dentistry. Are you considering yourself a medical specialist of the teeth, gums, and mouth?