Osteopathic EM programs

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Bill Brasky said:
Do we need to reapply? It didn't say anything about our ERAS application, just having to rank in NRMP rather than NMS. Or am I misreading that?
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From my understanding you have to reapply on ACGME side of things. The application in AOA cannot be used to rank in NRMP
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-well damn, wasnt expecting them to follow through with this rule
 
Any new interview invites on the AOA side? Just wondering when we can expect the majority of invites to go out.
 
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Jekyl, part of me thought they'd cave just because they're are otherwise fewer and fewer programs left, but I'm glad they didn't. It's completely unfair to keep changing the rules. Once you switch to a 3 year ACGME program, you are are an ACGME program when it comes to the match. Wouldn't be fair to say that one year, change the rules the next, etc.
 
med001 said:
Any new interview invites on the AOA side? Just wondering when we can expect the majority of invites to go out.
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I have only heard from promedica and mercy health. Other ones are from audition rotations.
 
Beaumont Farmington Hills (formerly Botsford) ii today. I have SLOEs FWIW.
 
Norman Regional and INTEGRIS Southwest are starting in next week, looks like it's still those that auditioned. I've got one at Norman, and a classmate I rotated with at INTEGRIS at the same time got an II for there
 
I've gotten II's from the following places without rotating at them. I have two SLOEs uploaded FWIW.

Adena/Core in Chillicothe
Mercy in Muskegon
Kingman
Merritt Health Wesley in Hattiesburg
Comanche County Memorial in Lawton OK
St. John in Westlake OH
 
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anyone have an idea which programs have switched to three years?
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Jekyl, part of me thought they'd cave just because they're are otherwise fewer and fewer programs left, but I'm glad they didn't. It's completely unfair to keep changing the rules. Once you switch to a 3 year ACGME program, you are are an ACGME program when it comes to the match. Wouldn't be fair to say that one year, change the rules the next, etc.
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i just am sick of all the lack of structure. this merger has been poorly done, i ask pd questions and they cant answer them because the AOA and ACGME dont tell them anything.
 
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Does anybody know if programs can still gain initial accreditation before the match and switch to ACGME? Or are things fairly set for our year at this point? I haven't heard if there will be another round of accreditations like what happened last month that forces programs to make the switch.
 
DesertOsteopath5 said:
Does anybody know if programs can still gain initial accreditation before the match and switch to ACGME? Or are things fairly set for our year at this point? I haven't heard if there will be another round of accreditations like what happened last month that forces programs to make the switch.
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Anyone who gets initial accredidation sometime this year will start in their ACGME 3 year curriculum next year. So technically, they should still be able to match AOA this year. That's what happened to us a few years ago in the first batch of programs that got initial accredidation. We found out right after the AOA match, and then all the candidates that matched in via the AOA match got to start as a 3 year ACGME program.
 
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Does anyone know if the Beaumont EM program in Farmington Hills will be participating in the NRMP? I asked them a while ago, and their official answer was "We're not sure yet."

I currently get an auto-response when I emailed the PC.

I ask b/c I have an interview scheduled, but I will not be doing the NMS match....

Anybody?


** edit ** if anyone cares, I heard back that they will be NMS only this year.
 
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Anyone who didn't rotate receive interviews from places like Lehigh Valley and Aria Health?
 
The email that we got from ERAS a while back says that 6 of the 16 programs in pre-accreditation have applied as 3 year programs. Is there anyway way we can find out which programs those are without emailing every program and asking?
 
Does anyone know when the last interview date for Aria Health and NUMC are?
 
How should we correlate programs that are in both matches to the charting outcomes data? According to the Charting Outcomes, 10 ranks correlates with ~95% match for osteopathic candidates in the MD match. Will this correlate if some of these programs are in both matches? If 5 of these were in both matches, does this correlate to ~7.5 contiguous ranks(since each program is only filling half a class) or would you still consider it 10?


TL;DR: Does the Charting Outcomes data still apply if a large number of your programs are involved in both matches? Does the number required for "safe matching" change due to the logistics of this year's match?
 
canyoufeelthis said:
How should we correlate programs that are in both matches to the charting outcomes data? According to the Charting Outcomes, 10 ranks correlates with ~95% match for osteopathic candidates in the MD match. Will this correlate if some of these programs are in both matches? If 5 of these were in both matches, does this correlate to ~7.5 contiguous ranks(since each program is only filling half a class) or would you still consider it 10?


TL;DR: Does the Charting Outcomes data still apply if a large number of your programs are involved in both matches? Does the number required for "safe matching" change due to the logistics of this year's match?
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Unfortunately, there isn’t an answer to your question. The charting outcomes data is only for the ACGME match. There is no data about match outcomes for DO’s based on combined numbers. Logic would say that ranking 5 in one match and 5 in another is probably not equal exactly to 10 in one match, but who knows. I wish I had a better answer for you, but I don’t think it exists out there.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Unfortunately, there isn’t an answer to your question. The charting outcomes data is only for the ACGME match. There is no data about match outcomes for DO’s based on combined numbers. Logic would say that ranking 5 in one match and 5 in another is probably not equal exactly to 10 in one match, but who knows. I wish I had a better answer for you, but I don’t think it exists out there.
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Thank you so much for your response! I guess I didn't quite explain my question well enough. I am pretty sure I will only be participating in the ACGME match, however, about half of the programs I have interviewed at are in both matches this year. So I was wondering if the charting outcomes data would be reasonably accurate, or if it would be a bit off as half of the programs are essentially only taking half a class out of the ACGME match.

So the question is, if someone is only in the ACGME match and they have 10 ranks, but 5 of the programs are participating in both matches, is this still as strong of a position as charting outcomes makes you believe?

I know this is kind of a strange question and no one knows the real answers, I just am trying to gauge what a "safe" number of ranks would be in the ACGME match, and how to account for programs that are taking half from the AOA match and half from the ACGME match.
 
Oh now i understand, though the answer probably stands the same since if programs are splitting their rank list between aoa/acgme. Who even knows what percentage in each match they will take. It would be very unpredictable. I think it’s logical to treat each program is maybe have a program, but that is just an assumption based on zero data, so take that for what its worth.
 
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canyoufeelthis said:
Thank you so much for your response! I guess I didn't quite explain my question well enough. I am pretty sure I will only be participating in the ACGME match, however, about half of the programs I have interviewed at are in both matches this year. So I was wondering if the charting outcomes data would be reasonably accurate, or if it would be a bit off as half of the programs are essentially only taking half a class out of the ACGME match.

So the question is, if someone is only in the ACGME match and they have 10 ranks, but 5 of the programs are participating in both matches, is this still as strong of a position as charting outcomes makes you believe?

I know this is kind of a strange question and no one knows the real answers, I just am trying to gauge what a "safe" number of ranks would be in the ACGME match, and how to account for programs that are taking half from the AOA match and half from the ACGME match.
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Your question, even as rephrased, is just as unanswerable as the original was.

I also never really understood the "safe" ranks philosophy. You need to go to as many interviews as humanly possible, and rank as many of them as you'd prefer to go to compared to working at Home Depot. Not just to get your ROL #s up, but to see what's out there and which programs are right for you. "Back in the day", according to Charting Outcomes from Mesopotamian times, I had a 95+% match rate with 8 contiguous ranks (admittedly not in EM). I ranked twice that # of programs, and interviewed at a few more that I didn't rank.
 
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gutonc said:
Your question, even as rephrased, is just as unanswerable as the original was.

I also never really understood the "safe" ranks philosophy. You need to go to as many interviews as humanly possible, and rank as many of them as you'd prefer to go to compared to working at Home Depot. Not just to get your ROL #s up, but to see what's out there and which programs are right for you. "Back in the day", according to Charting Outcomes from Mesopotamian times, I had a 95+% match rate with 8 contiguous ranks (admittedly not in EM). I ranked twice that # of programs, and interviewed at a few more that I didn't rank.
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Thanks for the response. I understand where you are coming from about the "safe rank" philosophy. For me, I am trying to feel out how safe it would be to forgo the AOA match (as none of my top choices are in the AOA match) and only participate in the ACGME match. Unfortunately, the Charting Outcomes data is the best I can find, but I don't really know how to interpret it for my exact circumstance.

I plan on talking to my school EM advisor soon, but I don't know if he will have any great answers as well. Anyone have any other advice on who to reach out to?

Thank you both for your replies -- I know its a complicated thing to ask on the forum, but I don't really know who else to ask!
 
canyoufeelthis said:
Thanks for the response. I understand where you are coming from about the "safe rank" philosophy. For me, I am trying to feel out how safe it would be to forgo the AOA match (as none of my top choices are in the AOA match) and only participate in the ACGME match. Unfortunately, the Charting Outcomes data is the best I can find, but I don't really know how to interpret it for my exact circumstance.

I plan on talking to my school EM advisor soon, but I don't know if he will have any great answers as well. Anyone have any other advice on who to reach out to?

Thank you both for your replies -- I know its a complicated thing to ask on the forum, but I don't really know who else to ask!
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No problem, I’m happy to help. I just don’t think you’re going to find the answer you’re looking for. The problem is, no one can tell you what your own risk tolerance is but you. First, the statistics arent available. Second statistics are just statistics. There are amazing candidates with only 5-6 interviews who will be at the top of all those lists who just choose not to go to any more; they have a 100% chance of matching, not 80%. And there conversely are people with 5-6 interviews only at places they rotated or had to send out emails just to secure those. Their match rate is probably less than that 80%. You have to look at the candidate individually, statistics can only give you trends. And even if you had all the data and it were clearly defined as say 85%, no one can tell you if thats a high enough percent chance to forgo the aoa match. Unfortunately, its all up to you in order to decide on your own risk tolerance.

Which is why the two match system stinks and is terrible for AOA candidates and doesnt have their interests at heart. Thank goodness it will be over in a few years, and people can just rank programs how they like them.
 
Does any one have information about Nasssue university medical center EM program in Long Island? It is a relatively new program that looks like growing to be a great program
 
Makati2008 said:
Glad it worked out for him. It's an odd position for an applicant though you have a worthless sloe but if you ride it out with them then they may look at you very favorably during the match if they get rrc approval. I think it's shady then went AOA route so close to the merger instead of ACGME from day 1


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Got message from another classmate rotating there now. They got their ACGME at the RRC on the 8th. Available in NRMP, but I don't think they interviewed anybody. Guess they are sticking with the original scramble/SOAP plan for this match year.
 
CajunMedic said:
Got message from another classmate rotating there now. They got their ACGME at the RRC on the 8th. Available in NRMP, but I don't think they interviewed anybody. Guess they are sticking with the original scramble/SOAP plan for this match year.
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Wait, are we saying that Unity Health is entering the match for the first time this year, interviewed 0 people, and will therefore have an automatic 6 spots open and available in the ACGME SOAP this year? That's pretty wild, there haven't been EM SOAP spots in years as far as I've heard. Could be a very nice option for anyone unfortunate enough to not match this year.
 
surely said:
Wait, are we saying that Unity Health is entering the match for the first time this year, interviewed 0 people, and will therefore have an automatic 6 spots open and available in the ACGME SOAP this year? That's pretty wild, there haven't been EM SOAP spots in years as far as I've heard. Could be a very nice option for anyone unfortunate enough to not match this year.
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Yep, the original plan that several of us had heard from them was that if they had gotten ACGME, they were going to take people in the AOA scramble and the SOAP, but only if they had auditioned there. Don't know if they can restrict it like that by ACGME policy.
 
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CajunMedic said:
Yep, the original plan that several of us had heard from them was that if they had gotten ACGME, they were going to take people in the AOA scramble and the SOAP, but only if they had auditioned there. Don't know if they can restrict it like that by ACGME policy.
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Interesting! The "but only if they had auditioned there" part might not work out if everyone who auditioned there matches elsewhere.
 
CajunMedic said:
Yep, the original plan that several of us had heard from them was that if they had gotten ACGME, they were going to take people in the AOA scramble and the SOAP, but only if they had auditioned there. Don't know if they can restrict it like that by ACGME policy.
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Sure they can. They don't have to offer any SOAP spots that they don't want to.

The trick, as @surely points out, is to find the intersection of the "auditioned here" set and the "is in SOAP and puts in a SOAP app to our program" set. I suspect it will be rather small.
 
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For match day on Monday , when do emails typically get sent out? Randomly before noon I’m guessing?
 
^ I was wondering the same as well. Does it show up on the NMS website first and then email or ??
 
I was told by a resident today they they got an email at 730-8 that morning instead of 12 like it says on the website.

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green lantern said:
I was told by a resident today they they got an email at 730-8 that morning instead of 12 like it says on the website.

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Remembering a few years back, NMS releases the info earlier than they say on their website. They used to send out the match notifications first thing in the AM to the students back when we were in the aoa match.
 
I like knowing in the morning instead of waiting till 5 for our board scores to be releasesd

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CajunMedic said:
We were told that if we didn't match, the email came out around 0600. If we did match, we'd get it after 0800, usually no later than 0830.
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Welll that would be a bad way to start off the morning if you didn't match. I just hope I'll be able to sleep come sunday.

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CajunMedic said:
Well, I didn't sleep last night, and I got the early email saying I didn't match. Now, I'm debating on the TRI and try again vs. staying in the ACGME match.
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I'd stick it out for the ACGME match. I think we interviewed at a lot of the same places and I think you stand a good chance at them. If EM is your dream, go for the ACGME match.
 
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