Osteopathic EM programs

[MalachiConstant]

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I knew on paper that it didn't seem like what I was looking for, but I figured I'd give it a chance and went to the interview last year. I was actually pretty impressed with the people. The med ed director gave a good pitch, and I really liked the residents I met. That said, the uncertainty/newness and the fact that the ED's are really tiny was too much for me to rank them highly. If I'm remembering correctly, they also have a big focus on OMM with a required OMM research project which I had zero interest in.

 

[joeDO2]

With the increasing difficulty of matching it sure would be nice to hear some success stories from this years DO grads matching EM as we all begin this new cycle!

 

[Makati2008]

With the increasing difficulty of matching it sure would be nice to hear some success stories from this years DO grads matching EM as we all begin this new cycle!

Matched #1. Excited and nervous

 

[D0CYAN]

With the increasing difficulty of matching it sure would be nice to hear some success stories from this years DO grads matching EM as we all begin this new cycle!

Second this! Also is it still worth it to pass up the DO match if one has lots of MD interviews, or is that move too risky now?

Good luck to everyone this cycle.

 

[AD28]

Second this! Also is it still worth it to pass up the DO match if one has lots of MD interviews, or is that move too risky now?

Good luck to everyone this cycle.

I didn't even apply for a single DO program, had about a dozen interviews in the MD match and got my top choice. I'll be starting soon and I couldn't be happier. Granted, I had no intention of going to a DO program. To that end, I did take the USMLE step 1 and step 2 ck, did pretty well on both, and I didn't rotate at any DO programs.

Just be realistic about your application strength, # of interviews, interviewing skills, and be cognizant of what you REALLY want out of your education.

 

[DO3]

Matched top choice MD. Like what was said above, be realistic about your application and chances. A word to the wise...apply to DO programs when DO apps open regardless of your intentions. If you wait to apply only MD and end up with only a few interviews, it's going to be way too late to apply for DO programs. You can always cancel interviews if you end up with a lot of MD invites. I had 6 or 7 DO interviews before my first MD interview...great for fine tuning my talking points for the MD ones later on.

 

[engineeredout]

If what you want is to become an EM physician, apply to both sides. You don't want to find out too late that your chances are slim. MD or DO it is a tough specialty to enter in to. No matter which path you go through, you will get to do what you want in the end. Is it worth the risk in something as competitive as EM?

 

[DocEspana]

Did a TRI year (didn't know what to apply to last year). This year matched ACGME, my #1 choice, in NYC.

Still had to absolutely busy my Ass, but I'd call that a success.

 

[DOaz]

DocEspana, did you happen to have a SLOE from 4th year or how did you manage the SLOE requirement?

 

[DocEspana]

DocEspana, did you happen to have a SLOE from 4th year or how did you manage the SLOE requirement?

Oh I had two SLOEs from somewhat early in my 4th year, but I wasn't convinced it was what I wanted to do. Plus they were from my first two EM rotations. But I ended up getting one from my TRI pprgram too. They didn't have a native program, but they hosted a quarter of the residency program training for a major university program. So they'd be qualified to do a SLOE even if they were the affiliate, not the home institution.

So I had SLOEs in abubdNce.

 

[DOaz]

Can anyone comment on arrowhead CA's program, pros and cons. Thanks

 

[D0CYAN]

I didn't even apply for a single DO program, had about a dozen interviews in the MD match and got my top choice. I'll be starting soon and I couldn't be happier. Granted, I had no intention of going to a DO program. To that end, I did take the USMLE step 1 and step 2 ck, did pretty well on both, and I didn't rotate at any DO programs.

Just be realistic about your application strength, # of interviews, interviewing skills, and be cognizant of what you REALLY want out of your education.

Matched top choice MD. Like what was said above, be realistic about your application and chances. A word to the wise...apply to DO programs when DO apps open regardless of your intentions. If you wait to apply only MD and end up with only a few interviews, it's going to be way too late to apply for DO programs. You can always cancel interviews if you end up with a lot of MD invites. I had 6 or 7 DO interviews before my first MD interview...great for fine tuning my talking points for the MD ones later on.

If what you want is to become an EM physician, apply to both sides. You don't want to find out too late that your chances are slim. MD or DO it is a tough specialty to enter in to. No matter which path you go through, you will get to do what you want in the end. Is it worth the risk in something as competitive as EM?

Thanks for the advice. I agree that there's no reason not to apply AOA if the primary goal is EM, and I am planning to apply to both AOA and ACGME programs.

Question regarding letters of rec. My upcoming semester is all EM rotations, from which I intend to get the required SLOEs. The thing is, AOA applications open before I'll have any SLOEs available (July 1). I did two separate research projects in med school, and am wondering if it would be beneficial to get letters from my PIs who I have a good relationship with, which would allow me to get my apps in and add the SLOEs as they trickle in. Or, would they be looked down on for not having much to say on my clinical performance?

 

[DO3]

Can anyone comment on arrowhead CA's program, pros and cons. Thanks

No chance if you don't rotate there. And then you have to bust your tail when you do rotate there...very competitive atmosphere among rotating med students (this did not carry over to the atmosphere of the actual residency program). Outstanding program director and residency leadership. Absolutely loved the attendings. Resident run department. Great group of residents who go out of their away to make you feel comfortable as a student. No hand holding and less bedside teaching by attendings than at most places. You're thrown directly into the fire as an intern. Didn't seem to be "graduated responsibility" here...you're the man from day 1. High volume. High acuity. A lot of trauma. Procedure heavy. True county hospital atmosphere. Takes awhile to get patients from an ER bed to the floor. Not as much Peds exposure as most places. High cost of living. Didactics were above average for DO programs. No doubt that the physicians who graduate from this program will be ready to practice anywhere. Definitely worth a look if you wouldn't mind living in California.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

No chance if you don't rotate there. And then you have to bust your tail when you do rotate there...very competitive atmosphere among rotating med students (this did not carry over to the atmosphere of the actual residency program). Outstanding program director and residency leadership. Absolutely loved the attendings. Resident run department. Great group of residents who go out of their away to make you feel comfortable as a student. No hand holding and less bedside teaching by attendings than at most places. You're thrown directly into the fire as an intern. Didn't seem to be "graduated responsibility" here...you're the man from day 1. High volume. High acuity. A lot of trauma. Procedure heavy. True county hospital atmosphere. Takes awhile to get patients from an ER bed to the floor. Not as much Peds exposure as most places. High cost of living. Didactics were above average for DO programs. No doubt that the physicians who graduate from this program will be ready to practice anywhere. Definitely worth a look if you wouldn't mind living in California.

How are board scores? The website says 500 minimum, but I'm wondering what the minimum would be to be competitive.

 

[DO3]

How are board scores? The website says 500 minimum, but I'm wondering what the minimum would be to be competitive.

Don't know the exact number. The higher the better. Remember, this is pretty much the only option for students doing the DO match and wanting to stay on the west coast. It's super, super competitive. They are not hurting for qualified applicants. They get to choose from the best of the best.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

How are board scores? The website says 500 minimum, but I'm wondering what the minimum would be to be competitive.

What I've heard from the program is 500 cutoff if you don't rotate, 450 if you do rotate. The residents have a big say in who gets considered so rotating and impressing seems to be pretty much mandatory if you want to match here.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

What I've heard from the program is 500 cutoff if you don't rotate, 450 if you do rotate. The residents have a big say in who gets considered so rotating and impressing seems to be pretty much mandatory if you want to match here.

Great, thanks for the info. I was getting worried that ARMC was a "600+ or bust" location.

 

[Petypet]

What I've heard from the program is 500 cutoff if you don't rotate, 450 if you do rotate. The residents have a big say in who gets considered so rotating and impressing seems to be pretty much mandatory if you want to match here.

I have gotten this vibe from other "top notch" osteo programs as well (n=2 in Ohio). You can match with a sub 500 score if you are liked by the residents. A 500 can get you an interview, but its the interview and audition that get you a residency spot. We have had lectures too where faculty have flat out said, getting a 600+ poses very little advantage against someone with a 500. Once you are in the door for an interview its about the complete picture, not one single exam. Reassuring, but scary too.

 

[donkeykong1]

just wanted to clarify so along with a good LOR and a sensible personality on aways one needs the following scores for EM as a DO?:
AOA-comlex 550+
ACGME-usmle 225+

 

[Petypet]

just wanted to clarify so along with a good LOR and a sensible personality on aways one needs the following scores for EM as a DO?:
AOA-comlex 550+
ACGME-usmle 225+

For AOA programs many list as 500 as a cutoff, but based on the NBOME matching results many programs take students w/ far less than a 500. For ACGME I was told by my mentor at an ACGME institution I should aim for 230+ on step 1.

 

[donkeykong1]

For AOA programs many list as 500 as a cutoff, but based on the NBOME matching results many programs take students w/ far less than a 500. For ACGME I was told by my mentor at an ACGME institution I should aim for 230+ on step 1.

is the 230 at university or community EM programs? the avg is like a 224 now

 

[Petypet]

is the 230 at university or community EM programs? the avg is like a 224 now

230 to have more control over your choices, so likely more university based. The average may be 224 for MDs but not necessarily DOs, although I may partially be mistaken

 

[WalkingCorpse]

I had a sub-220 step 1 score and a sub-550 level 1 comlex score and still got many AOA interviews and enough ACGME interviews to feel comfortable entering the ACGME match only. Letters, letters, letters.. They are very important.

 

[donkeykong1]

I had a sub-220 step 1 score and a sub-550 level 1 comlex score and still got many AOA interviews and enough ACGME interviews to feel comfortable entering the ACGME match only. Letters, letters, letters.. They are very important.

how many is "enough" for a match?

 

[WalkingCorpse]

That's the million dollar question.. I've heard people say ten interviews, but I'm sure there are people every year with ten+ who don't match. I had less than ten, but I felt comfortable about the ones I had and went with my gut.

 

[BoardingDoc]

That's the million dollar question.. I've heard people say ten interviews, but I'm sure there are people every year with ten+ who don't match. I had less than ten, but I felt comfortable about the ones I had and went with my gut.

This question has been asked and answered numerous times.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Page 60 (pdf page 64) shows the curve for number of programs ranked and percent chance of matching in EM. If you rank 10 places as a AMG you have a 97% chance of matching.

 

[WalkingCorpse]

Yes, but the "US seniors" does not include DO applicants. DO applicants and IMG/FMG are all together in the independent applicant category, which makes it not as reliable for DO's to go by this data. I'm assuming of course the poster asking this question is a DO since this thread is originally about AOA programs.

 

[GTP]

Can anyone comment on the type of people they want at Einstein pcom? I noticed they interviewed 180 people last year for 15 spots (yikes!). lol Do they interview everyone? Can people who interviewed and or matched there comment? Do they like scores, letters, rotators, research?

 

[DO3]

Can anyone comment on the type of people they want at Einstein pcom? I noticed they interviewed 180 people last year for 15 spots (yikes!). lol Do they interview everyone? Can people who interviewed and or matched there comment? Do they like scores, letters, rotators, research?

Scores are good, but when I interviewed they seemed to look at the entire package. Didn't seem to put weight on one specific part of the app. Awesome program director. Their residents worked the most out of any program I interviewed at by far. The number of shifts per year did not decrease as you moved on in the program, and it was something like 19-21 shifts/month on average. High acuity. A lot of trauma. Cool off-service rotations. Split conferences on occasion...senior and junior residents.

 

[GTP]

Scores are good, but when I interviewed they seemed to look at the entire package. Didn't seem to put weight on one specific part of the app. Awesome program director. Their residents worked the most out of any program I interviewed at by far. The number of shifts per year did not decrease as you moved on in the program, and it was something like 19-21 shifts/month on average. High acuity. A lot of trauma. Cool off-service rotations. Split conferences on occasion...senior and junior residents.

Hey Thanks DO3. You always come to the rescue. Did you rotate there? It just seems like a shot in the dark since it's such a good program and they interview a lot of people. What do people usually do post-interview to stand out? I wonder if pcom graduates are looked favorably upon. Also, do you know anything about whether or not 3 yr PA programs are affected by resolution 42? I thought we were restricted to 4 year programs. But I heard DOs get approved to attend Geisinger with no problem.

 

[DO3]

Hey Thanks DO3. You always come to the rescue. Did you rotate there? It just seems like a shot in the dark since it's such a good program and they interview a lot of people. What do people usually do post-interview to stand out? I wonder if pcom graduates are looked favorably upon. Also, do you know anything about whether or not 3 yr PA programs are affected by resolution 42? I thought we were restricted to 4 year programs. But I heard DOs get approved to attend Geisinger with no problem.

Didn't rotate. Know a couple folks who did. Overall positive things to say. You'd come out of there well trained. The resolution 42 thing is program dependent. It was a shot in the dark for me, but I got an interview. Definitely worth a look if you don't mind living in Philly and everything that comes with it. Salary is kind of on the low side for what the cost of living is.

 

[whatchutalkinboutwillis]

Can anyone comment on how important it is to have our ERAS app complete when it opens/soon there after? When should we have the CV/Personal Statement submitted? I know dean's letters don't get released until Oct..... just wondering if anyone has any info / suggestions on this? THANKS!

 

[GTP]

Didn't rotate. Know a couple folks who did. Overall positive things to say. You'd come out of there well trained. The resolution 42 thing is program dependent. It was a shot in the dark for me, but I got an interview. Definitely worth a look if you don't mind living in Philly and everything that comes with it. Salary is kind of on the low side for what the cost of living is.

Thanks!

 

[DO3]

Can anyone comment on how important it is to have our ERAS app complete when it opens/soon there after? When should we have the CV/Personal Statement submitted? I know dean's letters don't get released until Oct..... just wondering if anyone has any info / suggestions on this? THANKS!

July 15th no question or exception. No excuse for your app not to be sent in by then even if you are waiting on letters. The early bird gets the worm.

 

[WalkingCorpse]

Agree 110% with the above. Don't make the mistake some people I know made, and wait to submit your app until you have all your letters or all your scores or your deans letter, etc. Even though this is stressed all the time, some people still seem to slip through the cracks and think they have to have everything uploaded to eras before submitting their app to programs. I had one letter and no comlex 2 score uploaded when I submitted my application.

 

[Student DO c]

,....

 

[knuckleheader]

Hi guys, I think I may be in the right place. I am currently starting my 3rd year at a DO program in California. I was a paramedic before going in to medical school. I just got my USMLE score: 231 and my COMLEX: 561. I am in the top 25 precent of the class for preclinical years. I have no research experience at all. I know it is a long road to go and I have to do all of my core rotations first but for those that made the match if you could go back and tell your third year self advice what would it be? Do you guys think I need to take the USMLE Step 2 in June to be competitive for ACGME spots? Is my COMLEX score competitive enough? I know that the field is getting more competitive every year and I want to make sure I match either ER or backup IM. Congrats to everyone that made it! I look forward to posting in this thread in 2016 🙂

 

[jankymutt]

Hi guys, I think I may be in the right place. I am currently starting my 3rd year at a DO program in California. I was a paramedic before going in to medical school. I just got my USMLE score: 231 and my COMLEX: 561. I am in the top 25 precent of the class for preclinical years. I have no research experience at all. I know it is a long road to go and I have to do all of my core rotations first but for those that made the match if you could go back and tell your third year self advice what would it be? Do you guys think I need to take the USMLE Step 2 in June to be competitive for ACGME spots? Is my COMLEX score competitive enough? I know that the field is getting more competitive every year and I want to make sure I match either ER or backup IM. Congrats to everyone that made it! I look forward to posting in this thread in 2016 🙂

Those are pretty good scores. If you want to go ACGME, having some research experience would definitely help. Demonstrate an interest in EM early (even pre-clinical years) by going to EM conferences, joining national organizations (AAEM, ACEP/EMRA, ACOEP). If you can get involved with these organizations at a national level, that's even better!

 

[knuckleheader]

Ok thanks for the advice. I will join some organizations. I am already in 3rd year and far away from my campus doing rotations so doing research may be a problem. I will try to get something going at my core site. I feel like my USMLE score is average for only ACGME but from what I have been reading my COMLEX is more competitive. I think I am going to plan on taking the USMLE Step 2 in June and rocking it. Thanks again.

 

[ImAdoER]

Hey guys, I'm just curious as to how many programs I should apply to realistically (AOA and ACGME). I've read previous posts and realize that all situations are unique but I've really been scratching my head over this. I'll be rotating through 3 ACGME places and 1 AOA. Should have have 1 sloe by mid sept and last one by early oct. Mostly have interest in ACGME. Application start date is right around the corner so I am trying to organize a solid list.

COMLEX 1 619
COMLEX 2 pending
USMLE 1 -229
USMLE 2 - 258
3rd year all honors except 1 high pass in Psych
No sloes yet (realize that's huge part of app)
Decent ECs nothing spectacular and 2 research projects without publication.

My step 1 score is what worries me. I think I'll probably lose a good amount of interview invites strictly bc of that. Anyways, a little insight would be nice. Thanks

 

[Siggy]

Hey guys, I'm just curious as to how many programs I should apply to realistically (AOA and ACGME). I've read previous posts and realize that all situations are unique but I've really been scratching my head over this. I'll be rotating through 3 ACGME places and 1 AOA. Should have have 1 sloe by mid sept and last one by early oct. Mostly have interest in ACGME. Application start date is right around the corner so I am trying to organize a solid list.

COMLEX 1 619
COMLEX 2 pending
USMLE 1 -229
USMLE 2 - 258
3rd year all honors except 1 high pass in Psych
No sloes yet (realize that's huge part of app)
Decent ECs nothing spectacular and 2 research projects without publication.

My step 1 score is what worries me. I think I'll probably lose a good amount of interview invites strictly bc of that. Anyways, a little insight would be nice. Thanks

 

[ImAdoER]

I'm totally cereal Siggy.

 

[Makati2008]

I'm totally cereal Siggy.

If you are serious, I would only go acgme

 

[DOER2015]

Would anybody like to give me some input on my chances of matching EM? I'm applying broadly to both AOA and ACGME programs.

• COMLEX 1 between 540-560.
• USMLE 1 between 215-225.
• Top 1/3rd of my class.
• Mostly honors 3rd year.
• Average extracurriculars. Nothing impressive.

 

[ImAdoER]

If you are serious, I would only go acgme

Thank you for the response. I know ultimately my fate will be decided after my SLOEs get in but it's just difficult not to worry about the numbers game. 177 DOs matched in 2014 out of ACGME 1700+ spots. Thoughts of this whole process is really putting some strain on my heart

Would anybody like to give me some input on my chances of matching EM? I'm applying broadly to both AOA and ACGME programs.

• COMLEX 1 between 540-560.
• USMLE 1 between 215-225.
• Top 1/3rd of my class.
• Mostly honors 3rd year.
• Average extracurriculars. Nothing impressive.

Without knows any more info it's hard to say but I'd say you are in good shape at the very least for AOA. ACGME will depend more on other parts of your app, step 2 etc. I think EM could easily be in your future though. Keep your head up.

 

[DOER2015]

Without knows any more info it's hard to say but I'd say you are in good shape at the very least for AOA. ACGME will depend more on other parts of your app, step 2 etc. I think EM could easily be in your future though. Keep your head up.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Would anybody else like to comment on my chances?

 

[WalkingCorpse]

Would anybody like to give me some input on my chances of matching EM? I'm applying broadly to both AOA and ACGME programs.

• COMLEX 1 between 540-560.
• USMLE 1 between 215-225.
• Top 1/3rd of my class.
• Mostly honors 3rd year.
• Average extracurriculars. Nothing impressive.

Your COMLEX 1 and USMLE 1 are in the same ranges as mine were, as is your class rank and 3rd year grades. I applied broadly AOA and ACGME and matched ACGME at my #1 program. You're going to have a great chance at most AOA programs, except the ones where you have to rotate to have a shot. As far as ACGME, a lot has to do with where you apply. Be realistic. Make sure you're applying to programs who have a history of taking DO's every year. Make sure you apply to Midwest programs, as a lot of them are DO friendly. Bite the bullet and apply to a ton of ACGME programs. I know it's expensive, but what isn't in the medical school process? My COMLEX 2 also went up almost 100 points. I didn't take USMLE 2. If you have two great SLOE's you will be in good shape.

 

[whatchutalkinboutwillis]

Has anyone else who is applying to programs this year noticed that St John Providence Health System-Osteo Div Program, Madison Heights, MI
AOA ID: 182007, Emergency Medicine, it unable to be clicked/selected? This is the only programs I've noticed like that. Does this mean that they aren't accepting applications yet?

 

[ImAdoER]

Is there any benefit to applying to AOA programs sooner (today) rather than later (early to mid august) even though my ERAS application is incomplete? I only have 2 LORs uploaded which aren't even from ER physicians and personal statement is still in progress. I plan on focusing mainly on ACGME programs but still wonder if I should just go ahead and submit my application to the AOA programs I am interested in. At this point they will only have my 2 LORs, my COMLEX 1 (COMLEX 2 score should be out first or second week of Aug), cv, and school transcript. Thoughts??

 

[BBJ747]

I was hoping someone can help me out here. Here are my stats:
COMLEX 1 = 466
COMLEX 2 = Taking in 1 week
COMLEX PE = Passed on first try
USMLE 1 = Fail (by 3 points)
GPA = 3.0, Rank 117/133
Tons of extracurricular activities and leadership
Clinical grades are half honors and half passes but really good strong comments from each preceptor.
I also have 4 LOR's, two of which are from ER preceptors.

I just need to know what you guys think my chances are. I will be reporting my USMLE scores to all programs (I'm only applying AOA) because I think it would be worse if they find out later that I did take it and didn't report it.

I have 3 auditions set up for August, October, and November....but now I'm starting to get a bit worried with how EM is getting more competitive. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks guys!