Osteopathic General Surgery Residencies

[drwatson1575]

You have no idea what you're talking about. If you finish at a program that does not attain accreditation you WILL be board certified, albeit under the osteopathic boards. Surgeons have been finding jobs and fellowships since the inception of osteopathic programs so why do you think this would suddenly stop? I get that you are trying o be helpful and it would benefit applicants to graduate from an ACGME program but stop with the misinformation

I apologize. Not my intention to misinform.
I’m here to clear my
misconceptions too...
Let me rephrase...the program does not have ACGME accreditation and hence you have just completed training from a non-accredited program. So, when all the other training programs have the required accreditation and yours doesn’t....wouldn’t that place you at a disadvantage? The entire point of have a single accreditation system (good or bad) is to make sure that we all receive the same standard of training (not saying that the osteopathic training programs are not good).
It is very different when you graduated from a program before the single accreditation system comes into place. While it is being executed, every program in the country has been asked to prove that they can live up to certain standards and have been given multiple opportunities to do so.
If you were running an accredited fellowship program....you interview 2 candidates with the exact same credentials but one trained at an ACGME accredited program and the other from a non-accredited....who are you going to pick?

Do let me know if I’m missing something more fundamental in all of this?

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[simbad8]

From the AOA PDs I’ve spoken with, they say next year (the final year of the AOA match) initially accredited programs will likely participate in both matches for one final round. Have you heard anything like this either way?

Trying to form some sort of strategy in the midst of the incoming bedlam.

This is anecdotal but all the programs with initial accred I applied to ended up just doing NRMP match (even if they said they were doing both at the interview). I’d take anything they say with a grain of salt if it applies so distantly in the future.

 

[Skynnyrd]

From the AOA PDs I’ve spoken with, they say next year (the final year of the AOA match) initially accredited programs will likely participate in both matches for one final round. Have you heard anything like this either way?

Trying to form some sort of strategy in the midst of the incoming bedlam.

Honestly itwill vary by program. You need to contact the program coordinator at the program's your interested in to find out what match they will participate in. I've heard of a few programs that have attained accreditation that are participating in only AOA until the merger is finished.

 

[DrMcLovin]

I apologize. Not my intention to misinform.
I’m here to clear my
misconceptions too...
Let me rephrase...the program does not have ACGME accreditation and hence you have just completed training from a non-accredited program. So, when all the other training programs have the required accreditation and yours doesn’t....wouldn’t that place you at a disadvantage? The entire point of have a single accreditation system (good or bad) is to make sure that we all receive the same standard of training (not saying that the osteopathic training programs are not good).
It is very different when you graduated from a program before the single accreditation system comes into place. While it is being executed, every program in the country has been asked to prove that they can live up to certain standards and have been given multiple opportunities to do so.
If you were running an accredited fellowship program....you interview 2 candidates with the exact same credentials but one trained at an ACGME accredited program and the other from a non-accredited....who are you going to pick?

Do let me know if I’m missing something more fundamental in all of this?

Programs will remain AOA-accredited past 2020 until the last resident graduates. If a program takes residents in 2019 and for some reason they never become ACGME, they will stay AOA accredited until 2024.

How fellowship PD’s view those graduates is another argument, but it’s false to say they graduated from an unaccredited program.

Here is the memo outlining that.

http://www.acgme.org/portals/0/PDFS/Nasca-Community/Resident-protection-agreeement-memo-3.31.17.pdf

 

[drwatson1575]

Programs will remain AOA-accredited past 2020 until the last resident graduates. If a program takes residents in 2019 and for some reason they never become ACGME, they will stay AOA accredited until 2024.

How fellowship PD’s view those graduates is another argument, but it’s false to say they graduated from an unaccredited program.

Here is the memo outlining that.

That is great!! Thank you for sharing the information.
True, it is wrong to call them unaccredited. I meant not ACGME accredited.

The bottom line to all of this is that every applicant needs to evaluate every program carefully. It will really help your case to play it extremely safe and only apply to programs that have attained ACGME accreditation. We need to keep up with the changes that are taking place and not fall behind.

Good luck!!

 

[Moose A Moose]

Does anyone have experience with South Jersey’s Inspira gen surg program? If you did an interview or audition there I’m curious to learn more about them.

 

[basketball45]

Ocellicyst:

So I didn’t fall into knowing I wanted to do surgery until about halfway into my 4rd year. It was probably around February, so a lot of programs had already started filling up audition spots. I ended up auditioning at South Pointe, Grandview, Allegiance Health, Geisinger Wyoming Valley. Total of 3 months. I did 3rd year at a community hospital with only a Family Medicine residency…so starting auditions was waaay different. I worked every day during my 3rd year clerkship so it wasn’t terribly different.

It appeared that you did not provide info on Grandview. Would you or anyone please share more info on the program strength/weakness?

Thanks

 

[VLA]

Any recent info in regards to Hackensack UMC Palisades? Hospitals ur at, volume etc.?

 

[Meekor]

Any recent info in regards to Hackensack UMC Palisades? Hospitals ur at, volume etc.?

So other than Hackensack main and palisades, the residents told me when I rotated there that they spend most of their time at Englewood hospital in NJ. They also cover a surgicenter and new bridge medical center (was Bergen regional).
Of the 4 palisades is the slowest, englewood the busiest, Hackensack is in the middle since they don’t cover gen surg service there, residents from NJMS do although seton hall apparently has plans to start their own program based at main. Englewood is their busiest and they are unopposed there, they cover ever surg subspec and gen surg service and they have 12+ ORs and more in the outpatient side supposedly. There is a solid bariatric and colorectal group there as well. Also if you ask people from the area, they prefer englewood over Hackensack even though hack is #1 in jersey according to USNWR. They cover transplant, trauma, SICU, peds, and some oncology stuff at hack. Palisades did add a full time bariatric surgeon there, and the one team there covers gen, Vasc, thoracic.

They just got ACGME accreditation this year and my friend there told me on top of the 5 categorical they matched they SOAPed 10 prelim-surg candidates as well. They’re not sure how the schedule is going to work out yet. Pay is no longer an issue as they tell me they got a raise and it’s competitive for the area now.

Other than that from my experience my month there all the seniors I worked with were all very competent at the bread and butter stuff. Didn’t get any sense of malignancy to the program. 5th years were scrubbing cases and walking the juniors through them. The attendings scrubbed but stood there if a 4 or 5 we’re scrubbed. They take q3-4 call at palisades and apparently do 1mo block nights at englewood. No call or inpatient rounds at new bridge, but the main clinic is there. Didactics for 3-4 hours on Wednesday, journal club, and m+m are separate from that block.

I hope that helps

 

[VLA]

So other than Hackensack main and palisades, the residents told me when I rotated there that they spend most of their time at Englewood hospital in NJ. They also cover a surgicenter and new bridge medical center (was Bergen regional).
Of the 4 palisades is the slowest, englewood the busiest, Hackensack is in the middle since they don’t cover gen surg service there, residents from NJMS do although seton hall apparently has plans to start their own program based at main. Englewood is their busiest and they are unopposed there, they cover ever surg subspec and gen surg service and they have 12+ ORs and more in the outpatient side supposedly. There is a solid bariatric and colorectal group there as well. Also if you ask people from the area, they prefer englewood over Hackensack even though hack is #1 in jersey according to USNWR. They cover transplant, trauma, SICU, peds, and some oncology stuff at hack. Palisades did add a full time bariatric surgeon there, and the one team there covers gen, Vasc, thoracic.

They just got ACGME accreditation this year and my friend there told me on top of the 5 categorical they matched they SOAPed 10 prelim-surg candidates as well. They’re not sure how the schedule is going to work out yet. Pay is no longer an issue as they tell me they got a raise and it’s competitive for the area now.

Other than that from my experience my month there all the seniors I worked with were all very competent at the bread and butter stuff. Didn’t get any sense of malignancy to the program. 5th years were scrubbing cases and walking the juniors through them. The attendings scrubbed but stood there if a 4 or 5 we’re scrubbed. They take q3-4 call at palisades and apparently do 1mo block nights at englewood. No call or inpatient rounds at new bridge, but the main clinic is there. Didactics for 3-4 hours on Wednesday, journal club, and m+m are separate from that block.

I hope that helps

Thank you. Very helpful!

 

[Eagles6389]

Any info on DMC-Sinai Grace in terms of their general surgery residency? Anyone rotate, interview, or match there that would be able to share their experience?

 

[Meekor]

Any info on DMC-Sinai Grace in terms of their general surgery residency? Anyone rotate, interview, or match there that would be able to share their experience?

Great trauma experience at DMC, better than Detroit reciveing apparently. It’s one of the biggest draws of their program. They travel around a bit for various rotations but they get a good mix of lap and open. Sinai grace has more open emergent, but at Huron valley their sister hospital it’s all lap and elective stuff. A portion of Sinai grace has also recently been renovated, and it felt safe secure when I was there. They were still finalizing their new rotation sites when I interviewed there. All the residents seemed happy and enjoyed their experience so far. They are ACGME so be sure to check which match they’re going to do. I was told they would be moving over this year when I interviewed there.


Keep in mind however, a large majority of their faculty are with Wayne state, with the recent announced break up of DMC/Wayne state I’m not sure how this will effect DMC programs.

 

[bkzdragon]

Hey all, just looking for some sagely advice from the gen surg crowd

Not having rotated thru gen surg. until late third year, I was late to the party in terms of scheduling auditions. So far I've managed to secure two from mid sept to early nov but would anyone recommend scheduling a third one from mid november to early december? Just wondering, since from all the threads I've read so far...it seems like a bad idea since it's peak interview time for AOA residencies. Stats wise, I think I'm about average for gen surg. (560 comlex) so I know an additional audition would also be beneficial.

 

[Meekor]

Hey all, just looking for some sagely advice from the gen surg crowd

Not having rotated thru gen surg. until late third year, I was late to the party in terms of scheduling auditions. So far I've managed to secure two from mid sept to early nov but would anyone recommend scheduling a third one from mid november to early december? Just wondering, since from all the threads I've read so far...it seems like a bad idea since it's peak interview time for AOA residencies. Stats wise, I think I'm about average for gen surg. (560 comlex) so I know an additional audition would be only beneficial.

I scheduled IM during that time period at my core hospital where I know I was able to take plenty of time off. I would have also done EM at that time since I could build my own schedule as long as i complete a certain number of shifts for the month. If you cant fit another gen surg audition just put something you can take time off from easily.

Also, please make sure which match each program is going to be ranking in by the end of the cycle. Only mentioning this because they go full NRMP/ACGME in the middle of the cycle as a few surgery programs did last year and you don't have a USMLE score, you would have wasted your time at those programs. I know of several AOA programs that have received accreditation in the last six months that plan to do the NRMP match this coming cycle that already have DO auditions scheduled, my program included. Also make sure to evaluate whether or not the program will make accreditation, as this is the final year for programs to achieve accreditation.

 

[BornSinner]

Can anyone give me a good idea of which programs have the ability to give residents research years?

If not are there any DO friendly MD spots that give them? I see that Allegheny is somewhat DO friendly.

Thanks!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Does anyone have any information on any of the programs in Denver, especially Swedish, or the Valley Health program in Las Vegas? I'm kinda having a hard time getting any info at all on the western programs.