Osteopathic med schools

[umass319]

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Why are pod schools affiliated with, for the most part, osteopathic schools and not allopathic schools when podiatry is allopathic medicine.

 

[PagNoDoctor]

Scholl's is integregrated with Rosalind Franklin Med school.

 

[PagNoDoctor]

Scholl's is integregrated with Rosalind Franklin Med school.

 

[G0dFather]

^ lmao

 

[NormColeman4MN]

Scholl's is integregrated with Rosalind Franklin Med school.

It's not integrated, you take 1 real class with them (anatomy).

 

[diabeticfootdr]

It's not integrated, you take 1 real class with them (anatomy).

And share the cafeteria!

🙂

 

[PoddyMan]

Why are all existing integrated pod schools (except scholl) integrated with osteopathic medical schools and not allopathic medical schools, seeing as podiatry is allopathic medicine??

another edit: i'm asking why pod schools are affiliated with, for the most part, osteopathic schools and not allopathic schools when podiatry is allopathic medicine.

It appears that the osteopaths are more "humanistic", and they remember their own struggle for parity with the allopaths.

 

[spo01]

So they can be Osteopathic Podiatrists in which they treat the "whole" foot 😉

 

[ckjets]

NYCPM is affiliated with Columbia and Mount Sinai, they just have Touro as a neighbor DO school, they have nothing to do with eachother other than being their friendly neighbors. Temple also has allopathic medical school. What the heck is the difference? Is there a real concern here? You are not going to become an MD or DO if you go to a podiatry school that is affiliated with either one. So I really I do not understand the purpose of your question.

 

[jonwill]

Why are all existing integrated pod schools (except scholl) integrated with osteopathic medical schools and not allopathic medical schools, seeing as podiatry is allopathic medicine??

another edit: i'm asking why pod schools are affiliated with, for the most part, osteopathic schools and not allopathic schools when podiatry is allopathic medicine.

I honestly don't know if there is a reason at all.

 

[umass319]

NYCPM is affiliated with Columbia and Mount Sinai, they just have Touro as a neighbor DO school, they have nothing to do with eachother other than being their friendly neighbors. Temple also has allopathic medical school. What the heck is the difference? Is there a real concern here? You are not going to become an MD or DO if you go to a podiatry school that is affiliated with either one. So I really I do not understand the purpose of your question.

Nope, i'm curious. fundamental differences between osteopathy and allopathy; if a pod school is going to be affiliated with a medical school, you'd expect it to be with an allopathic school. similarly, i find it odd when an osteopathic school says, 'hey, let's open up a podiatry school and teach kids allopathic medicine... at our osteopathic medical school.'

 

[air bud]

i am just starting things at DMU, and i am surprised at how seperate they are.

 

[spo01]

Nope, i'm curious. fundamental differences between osteopathy and allopathy; if a pod school is going to be affiliated with a medical school, you'd expect it to be with an allopathic school. similarly, i find it odd when an osteopathic school says, 'hey, let's open up a podiatry school and teach kids allopathic medicine... at our osteopathic medical school.'

I really don't know the answer either but it is an interesting question. I think poddyman brings up an interesting point. Perhaps the MD schools want to keep it mainly MD only and remain 'the one and only'. Not all DO schools are only DO, some have Podiatry students, Optometry students, etc.

Yes, podiatry is still struggling to be recognized on par with other allopathic medical schools and doctors. That's just how it is, look at Vision 2015. We are bumping the residency up to all 3 year programs, doing away with the DAT and only accepting the MCAT eventually, and have a similar set up of programs (2 years basic sciences, 2 years clinicals/rotations/etc, then residency), and our boards part I is very similar (and rumor has it USMLE I was an idea for us as well). So it only makes sense that we would tag up with the MDs on our basic sciences because why join DOs when they themselves are already struggling for parity with MDs.

OP, you seem to think there is a significant difference between MD and DO in terms of saying that one is being taught Osteopathic medicine vs Allopathic medicine. I always felt this was nonsense. Sure, DOs take a few classes on OMM but other than that MD=DO in my book and this 'whole body' thing doesn't cut it either...the seperation is silly in my opinion. However, the whole MD/DO/DPM debate has been discussed ad nauseam.

 

[ckjets]

DO Schools look at the body as a whole and thus also know that many orthopedic problems originate at the feet; thus, it make sense to open a podiatry school. You are totally misinformed in thinking that Podiatry has a allopathic approach.

 

[NormColeman4MN]

DO Schools look at the body as a whole and thus also know that many orthopedic problems originate at the feet; thus, it make sense to open a podiatry school. You are totally misinformed in thinking that Podiatry has a allopathic approach.

just stop scrappy doo, please. The whole body stuff is bogus, there really is NO difference between MD and DO schooling these days. I hate hearing "I became a DO to treat the whole patient" 😱 Differences between MD/DO, its easier to get into DO schools (some FAR easier), they take an OMM course, and large majority of the DO schools are private (ie mad tuition $$$).

If you think podiatry is related to osteopathy, you're nuts. You should look up the ridiculous crainial techniques that is taught in OMM.

My feet hurt due to a low body energy and my chakra being off, I am gonna head to the osteopathic podiatrist for treatment. He will treat my whole body, not just my footsies.

 

[umass319]

DO Schools look at the body as a whole and thus also know that many orthopedic problems originate at the feet; thus, it make sense to open a podiatry school. You are totally misinformed in thinking that Podiatry has a allopathic approach.

This is taken directly from the Vision 2015 outline:

"Within these meetings, podiatric medical education and training needs to be explained in such a way that there is no confusion over the point that podiatric physicians are not limited licensed practitioners. Podiatric physicians are allopaths in the true definition of the term, i.e., a system of medical practice making use of all measures that have proved of value in the treatment of disease. Podiatric medicine is not different than any other medical specialty in that there are no philosophical or treatment variations. Along with allopathic and osteopathic medicine, podiatric medicine is the only other four-year undergraduate plus four-year doctoral plus postdoctoral, hospital-based residency educational process currently in existence for health care providers. Podiatric physicians receive a substantial amount of training from MDs and DOs. Podiatric residents rotate through medical departments in JCAHO and AOA accredited hospitals."

 

[PoddyMan]

So they can be Osteopathic Podiatrists in which they treat the "whole" foot 😉

LOL!

 

[air bud]

DO Schools look at the body as a whole and thus also know that many orthopedic problems originate at the feet; thus, it make sense to open a podiatry school. You are totally misinformed in thinking that Podiatry has a allopathic approach.

you are "totally misinformed" on so many levels.
look up what "allopathic" is.
DO students don't take any of the pod classes, so explain why DO schools benefit from pod schools?
Plus, the "look at the body as a whole" is a bunch of crap.
The two schools are DMU are pretty separate. Yes, the first two years we take most of the same classes. However, 2nd year students have encouraged first years to join clubs so that we can stay mentally connected to podiatry. The first two years basically have very little to to with pod medicine (besides intro to pod and one or two others).
In summary, get a clue.

 

[PoddyMan]

... there really is NO difference between MD and DO schooling these days. I hate hearing "I became a DO to treat the whole patient" 😱 Differences between MD/DO, ... they take an OMM course, ...

Aside from the OMM training, Norm is correct in stating that the DO schooling is very similar if not identical in many respects to the MD schooling.

This is taken directly from the Vision 2015 outline:

"Within these meetings, podiatric medical education and training needs to be explained in such a way that there is no confusion over the point that podiatric physicians are not limited licensed practitioners. Podiatric physicians are allopaths in the true definition of the term, i.e., a system of medical practice making use of all measures that have proved of value in the treatment of disease. Podiatric medicine is not different than any other medical specialty in that there are no philosophical or treatment variations. Along with allopathic and osteopathic medicine, podiatric medicine is the only other four-year undergraduate plus four-year doctoral plus postdoctoral, hospital-based residency educational process currently in existence for health care providers. Podiatric physicians receive a substantial amount of training from MDs and DOs. Podiatric residents rotate through medical departments in JCAHO and AOA accredited hospitals."

Since, I believe, the greatest challenge is gaining respect from the allopaths, therein lays the emphasis.

 

[umass319]

just stop scrappy doo, please. The whole body stuff is bogus, there really is NO difference between MD and DO schooling these days. I hate hearing "I became a DO to treat the whole patient" 😱 Differences between MD/DO, its easier to get into DO schools (some FAR easier), they take an OMM course, and large majority of the DO schools are private (ie mad tuition $$$).

If you think podiatry is related to osteopathy, you're nuts. You should look up the ridiculous crainial techniques that is taught in OMM.

My feet hurt due to a low body energy and my chakra being off, I am gonna head to the osteopathic podiatrist for treatment. He will treat my whole body, not just my footsies.

I dunno if I would be so quick to say there is no difference, especially with a capital no. It's a fundamentally different approach to healthcare. Yes it's equal in terms of physician status, scope, etc. and maybe even respect these days, but it's definitely separate. And maybe they don't treat the "whole body" so much anymore, but they absolutely consider the whole body more so than MDs, who treat disease by specifically targetting the symptoms, at least that's the generalization. The flipside tho, of course, is that MDs and allopathic schools are beginning to become more holistic in their treatments, so in that sense you might be right. Still, there are many many people that go DO instead of MD because they don't like the very scientific-just-treat-the-symptoms approach that MDs subscribe to. And while maybe the textbooks are the same, that philososophy difference is definitely felt throughout your education.

And hell, forget altogether my original question about pod school, here's a nice article, even, about the differences:
http://www.amsa.org/tnp/articles/article.cfx?id=342

This quote from it sums things up pretty well i think, "In actual practice, the variations between the two types of physicians are often so slight as to be unnoticeable to patients, and a day in the life of each can appear indistinguishable. But the differences are there, subtle but deep." (i think the same goes for your education)

 

[NormColeman4MN]

I dunno if I would be so quick to say there is no difference, especially with a capital no. It's a fundamentally different approach to healthcare. Yes it's equal in terms of physician status, scope, etc. and maybe even respect these days, but it's definitely separate. And maybe they don't treat the "whole body" so much anymore, but they absolutely consider the whole body more so than MDs, who treat disease by specifically targetting the symptoms, at least that's the generalization. The flipside tho, of course, is that MDs and allopathic schools are beginning to become more holistic in their treatments, so in that sense you might be right. Still, there are many many people that go DO instead of MD because they don't like the very scientific-just-treat-the-symptoms approach that MDs subscribe to. And while maybe the textbooks are the same, that philososophy difference is definitely felt throughout your education.

And hell, forget altogether my original question about pod school, here's a nice article, even, about the differences:
http://www.amsa.org/tnp/articles/article.cfx?id=342

This quote from it sums things up pretty well i think, "In actual practice, the variations between the two types of physicians are often so slight as to be unnoticeable to patients, and a day in the life of each can appear indistinguishable. But the differences are there, subtle but deep." (i think the same goes for your education)

Actually there's more people who go DO because it's easier to gain acceptance. Do you really think people would go to a private DO school (crazy $$$) over their state MD school (relatively cheap). No scrappy doo. I think you drank the osteopathic version of Jim Jones flavor-aid.

And there is no difference in schooling minus OMM. That osteopathic medical biochemistry course was riveting, we learned about fatty acid metabolism AND our mind, body, and spirit! Way better than those loser allopaths with their boring biochem

 

[air bud]

Drink up UMASS. Norm is right. I would bet less than 2 percent of DO students chose DO over MD. Its okay, you will learn to live with the fact that you too can not get into MD school. I did (learn to live with it). I am glad I found podiatry. I am glad I didn't even attempt DO. NOTE to any DO people: I love you guys.

 

[umass319]

NormColeman4MN and air bud,

... I don't disagree with any of that. I'm saying that there are differences in the DO and MD philosophy, education, and practice such that if someone actually gives a damn about medicine and feels a certain way about how it should be carried out, they can maintain their personal integrity and choose whatever they wish... And they do; air bud says they account for less than 2%, fine, whatever you want... a bunch of kids then (98%) end up having to live with the fact that they devoted their life's work to a form of medicine with a completely different philosophy after they simply did not get into MD school... i think that's embarrassing (i also dont think its as common as u make it seem). granted though, there are prob lots of people who never even heard of osteopathic medicine before they got rejected by MD school, did some research, and figured out they actually like (or even prefer) what it stands for... whatever the case, it's different.

 

[podboy]

Drink up UMASS. Norm is right. I would bet less than 2 percent of DO students chose DO over MD. Its okay, you will learn to live with the fact that you too can not get into MD school. I did (learn to live with it). I am glad I found podiatry. I am glad I didn't even attempt DO. NOTE to any DO people: I love you guys.

And those 2 percent had *no* chance at all at US MD schools.

 

[feets22]

And those 2 percent had *no* chance at all at US MD schools.

I know someone who chose DMU over University of Iowa's Medical School (which is one of the best in the country).....Just saying...it does happen.

 

[FlipKali]

Wow soo much hate... I've known a few at my school who decided DO over MD for location reasons - Everyone loves socal... I even know one choosing western over UCI. My reasons were similar, that and not wanting to lose a year. I don't have quite the stats for the state schools in california(31 3.5 undergrad GPA, 3.95 graduate GPA) since my mcat and undergrad gpa is lacking for california. I don't regret my decision and I'm happy where I'm at.

The philosophy is simply just words trying to hang on whats left on being different. I personally think its just empty words. The only thing that is different between the two is the required OMM classes.

For those criticizing DO, sure they do have lower averages than allopathic though its not as pathetic as most people say. My classes average was gpa 3.5 with a 9.27 section average. Yet, you believe them to be inferior to their allopathic counterparts in all ways and then turnface and somehow believe the 2015 vision for parity would be ******ly hypocritical.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Technically this is not an MD vs DO forum. If you want to call DPMs losers that is fine... Just stay on topic. If you want to argue MD vs DO please go to the DO forums where there are probably 10 or so threads...

 

[J-Rad]

I won't address the inaccuracies about osteopathic medicine in this thread of which there are many, since, as it was already pointed out, the original point was an interesting question about why the association between osteopathic and podiatric schools (if there is one: is there more than DMU and AZCOM; two hardly a trend makes).
Here's my take:
(The less likely or at least the much smaller contributing factor): while the whole "holistic" quality is overstated, at least in the basic training the DO receives there is an emphasis on biomechanics and how biomechanics theoretically affects global gross and physiologic functioning. One example might be venous circulation in the legs. Classic inhibition of which is the military trainee in formation who locks knees, doesn't move muscles, and gets venous pooling because venous circulation is a passive, low pressure phenomenon affected greatly by muscle movement and you know what happens next. In one aspect the "osteopathic" theory/"philosophy" this example is taken more globally. Musculoskeletal dysfunction can cause global dysregulation of venous function and thereby lymphatic function (i.e. immune function) thereby diagnosing and addressing musculoskeletal dysfunction theoretically can improve health at the cellular and "macro" level. If a connection between podiatric medicine and osteopathic medicine exists beyond the basics of medicine shared by MDs, DOs, and DPMs then it might be in an emphasis on biomechanics (maybe the pods could comment, but my guess is that DPMs get by far the most biomechanical training at least in re the lower extremity).
But that was my more theoretical answer. Now in my mind the most likely answer if this supposed trend actually does exist (questionable in my mind) is purely a financial motive. A lot of DO associated schools have other health professions schools: PharmD, PA, MPH, etc. It's a way to get bodies into seats and keep the schools making money (MD schools do this to). The other thing is that one of the reasons DO schools are successfully propagating (some would say to the overall detriment of the profession) is that they do not require an affiliated teaching hospital which, if instituted as the majority of allopathic medical schools have, is an expensive proposition. Especially in an area looking to churn out primary care docs-which DO schools have a clear cut track record of doing-this makes a DO school an appealing entity. I would surmise that a true true attached teaching hospital (vs. an affiliated teaching facility students may rotate at) is also not necessary at podiatric medical schools. This similarity might also explain this supposed trend. Just my thoughts.

 

[umass319]

I won't address the inaccuracies about osteopathic medicine in this thread of which there are many, since, as it was already pointed out, the original point was an interesting question about why the association between osteopathic and podiatric schools (if there is one: is there more than DMU and AZCOM; two hardly a trend makes).
Here's my take:
(The less likely or at least the much smaller contributing factor): while the whole "holistic" quality is overstated, at least in the basic training the DO receives there is an emphasis on biomechanics and how biomechanics theoretically affects global gross and physiologic functioning. One example might be venous circulation in the legs. Classic inhibition of which is the military trainee in formation who locks knees, doesn't move muscles, and gets venous pooling because venous circulation is a passive, low pressure phenomenon affected greatly by muscle movement and you know what happens next. In one aspect the "osteopathic" theory/"philosophy" this example is taken more globally. Musculoskeletal dysfunction can cause global dysregulation of venous function and thereby lymphatic function (i.e. immune function) thereby diagnosing and addressing musculoskeletal dysfunction theoretically can improve health at the cellular and "macro" level. If a connection between podiatric medicine and osteopathic medicine exists beyond the basics of medicine shared by MDs, DOs, and DPMs then it might be in an emphasis on biomechanics (maybe the pods could comment, but my guess is that DPMs get by far the most biomechanical training at least in re the lower extremity).
But that was my more theoretical answer. Now in my mind the most likely answer if this supposed trend actually does exist (questionable in my mind) is purely a financial motive. A lot of DO associated schools have other health professions schools: PharmD, PA, MPH, etc. It's a way to get bodies into seats and keep the schools making money (MD schools do this to). The other thing is that one of the reasons DO schools are successfully propagating (some would say to the overall detriment of the profession) is that they do not require an affiliated teaching hospital which, if instituted as the majority of allopathic medical schools have, is an expensive proposition. Especially in an area looking to churn out primary care docs-which DO schools have a clear cut track record of doing-this makes a DO school an appealing entity. I would surmise that a true true attached teaching hospital (vs. an affiliated teaching facility students may rotate at) is also not necessary at podiatric medical schools. This similarity might also explain this supposed trend. Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the post. I think the bit about money for the most part gets down to things regarding the pod-osteomed connection, which kind of bothers me. Your bit about biomechanics raises an interesting question i hadn't thought about though... if podiatric medicine is strictly allopathic medicine, why is biomechanics so heavily stressed in the pod education?? Some will prob say I'm nitpicking, but I'm just trying to get a comprehensive feel for what the hell podiatry is... is podiatric medicine a mirror image of western, allopathic, MD foot medicine or is it its own thing??

I guess another question would be: how much biomechanics do F&A orthos learn in med school??

 

[streetsweeper]

Thanks for the post. I think the bit about money for the most part gets down to things regarding the pod-osteomed connection, which kind of bothers me. Your bit about biomechanics raises an interesting question i hadn't thought about though... if podiatric medicine is strictly allopathic medicine, why is biomechanics so heavily stressed in the pod education?? Some will prob say I'm nitpicking, but I'm just trying to get a comprehensive feel for what the hell podiatry is... is podiatric medicine a mirror image of western, allopathic, MD foot medicine or is it its own thing??

I guess another question would be: how much biomechanics do F&A orthos learn in med school??

Biomechanics is like the backbone for orthopedic surgeries in general (not just F&A orthos). If you don't understand biomechanics, you have no business doin any type of orthopedic procedures period (or else you'd screw up a lot of people). And since podiatric surgeries are heavily orthopedic in nature, you gotta understand biomechanics. Also, a lot of pathologies we treat in podiatry have mechanical origins.

By reading some of your posts, I think you would get a lot of your questions answered by reading up on the history of podiatry. We started out separate from allopaths during the Barber Surgeon's guild era..but we eventually merged in the 20th century with allopathic medicine since MD training don't cover foot & ankle. We were accepted because we closed the gap in medical education by covering the feet way before DO's integrated evidence based medicine into their profession.

Back to topic, you asked a very interesting question why we have affiliations with DO schools rather than MD. We now have 3 podiatry schools integrated with DO schools: Western, Azpod, and DMU. Fundamentally, DO and MD are equal. But I think it's better if we were integrated w/ MD schools only because they are more known world wide. Now if they opened up a Harvard school of podiatry....i'm pretty sure we're gonna get a lot more applicants to the profession which will ultimately raise the bar for admission standards. Just my thoughts.

 

[dyk343]

I know someone who chose DMU over University of Iowa's Medical School (which is one of the best in the country).....Just saying...it does happen.

...

 

[umass319]

Biomechanics is like the backbone for orthopedic surgeries in general (not just F&A orthos). If you don't understand biomechanics, you have no business doin any type of orthopedic procedures period (or else you'd screw up a lot of people). And since podiatric surgeries are heavily orthopedic in nature, you gotta understand biomechanics. Also, a lot of pathologies we treat in podiatry have mechanical origins.

By reading some of your posts, I think you would get a lot of your questions answered by reading up on the history of podiatry. We started out separate from allopaths during the Barber Surgeon's guild era..but we eventually merged in the 20th century with allopathic medicine since MD training don't cover foot & ankle. We were accepted because we closed the gap in medical education by covering the feet way before DO's integrated evidence based medicine into their profession.

Back to topic, you asked a very interesting question why we have affiliations with DO schools rather than MD. We now have 3 podiatry schools integrated with DO schools: Western, Azpod, and DMU. Fundamentally, DO and MD are equal. But I think it's better if we were integrated w/ MD schools only because they are more known world wide. Now if they opened up a Harvard school of podiatry....i'm pretty sure we're gonna get a lot more applicants to the profession which will ultimately raise the bar for admission standards. Just my thoughts.

I prob could read up more on pod history. I learned a couple things from ur post and agree with pretty much everything, except when u say, "fundamentally, DO and MD are equal..." because (and i know im beatin this to death) fundamentally, they're just not equal. Fundamentals are what everything boils down to, here, even when I get back to my original question; in science and medicine, people care about fundamentals, and so that's why it's a curious situation when a DO school opens up a pod school.

I think it all gets back to DOs and pods just trying to gain respect from the MD world, and so to do that, they feel they have to merge their science with allopathic science. When you see pod schools opening up inside DO schools then, to me, it represents a failure of sorts - they're just settling for DO schools, saying 'Oh well, osteopathy has changed so much in America over the years and people today generally view it as equal to whatever is taught in MD schools - they've gained so much respect, so lets just jump in there and piggy-back on that respect and establish ourselves.

That's all great, especially considering where Osteopathic med schools are today. I just think it would've been better to wait a few more years, ride out the momentum they already had going (increased acceptance by MDs, increased respect from the community, etc.) and then actually jump in with the true MD schools.

 

[hamlinbeach]

I prob could read up more on pod history. I learned a couple things from ur post and agree with pretty much everything, except when u say, "fundamentally, DO and MD are equal..." because (and i know im beatin this to death) fundamentally, they're just not equal. Fundamentals are what everything boils down to, here, even when I get back to my original question; in science and medicine, people care about fundamentals, and so that's why it's a curious situation when a DO school opens up a pod school.

I think it all gets back to DOs and pods just trying to gain respect from the MD world, and so to do that, they feel they have to merge their science with allopathic science. When you see pod schools opening up inside DO schools then, to me, it represents a failure of sorts - they're just settling for DO schools, saying 'Oh well, osteopathy has changed so much in America over the years and people today generally view it as equal to whatever is taught in MD schools - they've gained so much respect, so lets just jump in there and piggy-back on that respect and establish ourselves.

That's all great, especially considering where Osteopathic med schools are today. I just think it would've been better to wait a few more years, ride out the momentum they already had going (increased acceptance by MDs, increased respect from the community, etc.) and then actually jump in with the true MD schools.

I think it boils down to the fact that DO schools are generally newer, tend to be independent health science institutions, and have room for expansion, so it's just easier to merge with those health science campuses. MD schools tend to be older, part of established comprehensive universities, and have little room for opening an entire school.

 

[krabmas]

NYCPM is affiliated with Columbia and Mount Sinai, they just have Touro as a neighbor DO school, they have nothing to do with eachother other than being their friendly neighbors. Temple also has allopathic medical school. What the heck is the difference? Is there a real concern here? You are not going to become an MD or DO if you go to a podiatry school that is affiliated with either one. So I really I do not understand the purpose of your question.

NYCPM is not associated w/ columbia. It is associated with the columbia presbyterian hospital system - very loosley.

 

[dtrack22]

Also, a lot of pathologies we treat in podiatry have mechanical origins.

I'm not a pod student yet but from what I've seen I would say that a lot of pathologies have structural origins which ultimately lead to the mechanical deficiency...dosen't that make anatomy the backbone to orthopedic surgeries?

 

[NormColeman4MN]

Biomechanics is like the backbone for orthopedic surgeries in general (not just F&A orthos). If you don't understand biomechanics, you have no business doin any type of orthopedic procedures period (or else you'd screw up a lot of people). And since podiatric surgeries are heavily orthopedic in nature, you gotta understand biomechanics. Also, a lot of pathologies we treat in podiatry have mechanical origins.

By reading some of your posts, I think you would get a lot of your questions answered by reading up on the history of podiatry. We started out separate from allopaths during the Barber Surgeon's guild era..but we eventually merged in the 20th century with allopathic medicine since MD training don't cover foot & ankle. We were accepted because we closed the gap in medical education by covering the feet way before DO's integrated evidence based medicine into their profession.

Back to topic, you asked a very interesting question why we have affiliations with DO schools rather than MD. We now have 3 podiatry schools integrated with DO schools: Western, Azpod, and DMU. Fundamentally, DO and MD are equal. But I think it's better if we were integrated w/ MD schools only because they are more known world wide. Now if they opened up a Harvard school of podiatry....i'm pretty sure we're gonna get a lot more applicants to the profession which will ultimately raise the bar for admission standards. Just my thoughts.

I saw a list floating on these forums and there seems to be a harvard school of podiatry already

 

[ckjets]

NYCPM is not associated w/ columbia. It is associated with the columbia presbyterian hospital system - very loosley.

it IS affiliated. check it out, and with mount sinai.

 

[streetsweeper]

I prob could read up more on pod history. I learned a couple things from ur post and agree with pretty much everything, except when u say, "fundamentally, DO and MD are equal..." because (and i know im beatin this to death) fundamentally, they're just not equal. Fundamentals are what everything boils down to, here, even when I get back to my original question; in science and medicine, people care about fundamentals, and so that's why it's a curious situation when a DO school opens up a pod school.

I still stick with what I said. Historically, they were not equal. But the days of MD and DO discrimination is over. Training is identical (except for OMM.. remnant of osteopath's "cult" past). The AMA actually labeled osteopaths as a "cult" back in the old days haha. Philosophically, they are not in conflict either. Today, a DO can work side by side with an MD at John Hopkins with no problems in allll specialties of medicine. They're now in a middle of an identity crisis .. there are debates of dropping the DO letters altogether and just pushing "MD" since fundamentally, they are equal. Due to the history of all the struggles and achievements of osteopaths.. we'll see what happens.

I'm not a pod student yet but from what I've seen I would say that a lot of pathologies have structural origins which ultimately lead to the mechanical deficiency...dosen't that make anatomy the backbone to orthopedic surgeries?

... yes. yes. and yes if you wanna be technical. and with that logic, anatomy is the backbone to alll surgeries.

I saw a list floating on these forums and there seems to be a harvard school of podiatry already

WTFEEZY???? I musta slept through pod school!

 

[NormColeman4MN]

it IS affiliated. check it out, and with mount sinai.

Krabmas graduated from there junior, I think he/she knows more about NYCPM...

Cornell Medical College & Columbia University are affiliated with The New York Presbyterian Health System. NYCPM may be somewhat affiliated, but not nearly to the same degree as these Ivy league, elite med schools. I heard that the majority of these poddies rotate at Harlem, Metropolitan, and Lincoln hospitals. I'm sure they provide great training and opportunities, but they are city (community) hospitals, not research centers.

Do a little reserach skippy.

 

[air bud]

junior, skippy, i love it.

 

[ckjets]

Krabmas graduated from there junior, I think he/she knows more about NYCPM...

Cornell Medical College & Columbia University are affiliated with The New York Presbyterian Health System. NYCPM may be somewhat affiliated, but not nearly to the same degree as these Ivy league, elite med schools. I heard that the majority of these poddies rotate at Harlem, Metropolitan, and Lincoln hospitals. I'm sure they provide great training and opportunities, but they are city (community) hospitals, not research centers.

Do a little reserach skippy.

They are affiliated, not part of it. Google it urself, I did my research. http://www.nycpm.edu/welcome/greetings.html. Professors from Mount Sinai, including the professor who interviewed me in NYCPM, teach at NYCPM. It is in the literature: Columbia University C Physicians & Surgeons, and Mount Sinai School of Medicine. To tell you the truth, I do not know how Columbia affiliation works and what benefit it brings to NYCPM students, but it is official. Additionally Mount Sinai and NYCPM have reached an agreement for a dual DPM/MPH (master public health) program. From now on, when I claim something, I will quote sources to avoid conflict.

 

[Siggy]

So they can be Osteopathic Podiatrists in which they treat the "whole" foot 😉

Winner!

/thread

 

[smsc2009]

For people enrolled at DPM programs affiliated with DO schools, do they push the osteopathic philosophy? I know the pod scope is on the foot and ankle so pushing the "whole body" effect wouldn't make much sense. Nevertheless, do you feel the professors try to steer you in believing this philosophy? or do they keep it separate from the DO program? thanks

 

[krabmas]

They are affiliated, not part of it. Google it urself, I did my research. http://www.nycpm.edu/welcome/greetings.html. Professors from Mount Sinai, including the professor who interviewed me in NYCPM, teach at NYCPM. It is in the literature: Columbia University C Physicians & Surgeons, and Mount Sinai School of Medicine. To tell you the truth, I do not know how Columbia affiliation works and what benefit it brings to NYCPM students, but it is official. Additionally Mount Sinai and NYCPM have reached an agreement for a dual DPM/MPH (master public health) program. From now on, when I claim something, I will quote sources to avoid conflict.

On paper there is this loose affiliation that really brings no benefit to anyone. I am not trying to bash the school or say anything about the education provided by NYCPM. I went there, graduated from there and would pick the same school again.

I think the school tries to over sell the point about columbia and mount sinai to convince people to pick NYCPM.

If there was a true affiliation we would get diplomas that say NYCPM, Columbia and MSSM - but we do not. The diploma says NYCPM. In addition we are not permitted to use their facilities. Only the library at columbia when given a special pass for a limited amount of time. We also do not rotate in their hospitals or do anything interactive with thier med students. Maybe at harlem hospital there are some columbia med students but we do not work with them.

We rotate at Metropolitan, Lincoln and Harlem hospitals mostly, sometimes at some hospital out on long island. We get a good experience non the less but we are certainly not rotating thru columbia or MSSM. MSSM at least has apod residency program and pods on staff. The last time I checked columbia does not have pods on staff, maybe one or 2 have privileges there, maybe.

 

[devilpup]

That's all great, especially considering where Osteopathic med schools are today. I just think it would've been better to wait a few more years, ride out the momentum they already had going (increased acceptance by MDs, increased respect from the community, etc.) and then actually jump in with the true MD schools.

The same story about 'respect'... This issue has been discussed many times in this forum and has generated hateful comments from all sides. Bottom line is- if you want mad respect, then simply earn it. If you think some initials that say MD instead of DO or DPM will earn you more respect, then I suggest an enema. Perhaps by a miracle it will compel elimination of all the BS in your head.

Become a competent and professional DPM, patients will come, and you will succeed. There is no need to carry a chip on your shoulder because of a perceived lack of respect. Bologna.

 

[umass319]

The same story about 'respect'... This issue has been discussed many times in this forum and has generated hateful comments from all sides. Bottom line is- if you want mad respect, then simply earn it. If you think some initials that say MD instead of DO or DPM will earn you more respect, then I suggest an enema. Perhaps by a miracle it will compel elimination of all the BS in your head.

Become a competent and professional DPM, patients will come, and you will succeed. There is no need to carry a chip on your shoulder because of a perceived lack of respect. Bologna.

What issue

 

[PodunkUDPM]

What issue

DPM vs. MD. vs. DO vs.....

 

[umass319]

DPM vs. MD. vs. DO vs.....

great. ok now explain how this thread is about the "DPM vs. MD. vs. DO vs....." issue

 

[PodunkUDPM]

Why don't you read for yourself?

 

[umass319]

The same story about 'respect'... This issue has been discussed many times in this forum and has generated hateful comments from all sides. Bottom line is- if you want mad respect, then simply earn it. If you think some initials that say MD instead of DO or DPM will earn you more respect, then I suggest an enema. Perhaps by a miracle it will compel elimination of all the BS in your head.

Become a competent and professional DPM, patients will come, and you will succeed. There is no need to carry a chip on your shoulder because of a perceived lack of respect. Bologna.

What issue

DPM vs. MD. vs. DO vs.....

great. ok now explain how this thread is about the "DPM vs. MD. vs. DO vs....." issue

Why don't you read for yourself?

it isn't