Osteopathic Medicine

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Match day!

And the answer is "yes" to that question, because D.O.s often do the same residencies as MDs so they must follow the same timeframes.



ACGME Match Day "Allopathic Match" is in March, not May.

AOA Match Day "Osteopathic Match" in in February.

If a DO is applying to allopathic programs that participate in the ACGME match then they will recieve their results in March. If an applicant applied to AOA programs then they will match in February.

If an applicant applied to both and matched in February (AOA) then they will be automatically withdrawn from the ACGME match.

If an applicant applied to both and does NOT match in February (AOA) they are still eligible for the ACGME match in March.

ATS
 
Wow, I never realized that before. So if someone prefers to match allopathic, but yet match in osteopathic, they are out of luck? They can't withdraw their osteopathic match and go for the allopathic? obviously I know nothing about matching.

If someone prefers to match to an allopathic residency then they need not participate in the osteopathic match. As a DO you can choose to participate in either or both matches.

But if you match in the osteopathic match you cannot "hold out" for a position in the allopathic match. That would be unfair to both programs who matched you, as you would end up chosing one over the other.

You can pull out of the osteopathic match up until midnight the night before the match is posted, but once you match you are in a legally binding agreement...as you are with the allopathic match as well.

So if you have you heart set on an allopathic program then there really is no reason to go through the osteopathic match.

The finality and contractual agreement of the match is a way for programs to protect themselves and their investment (you) so that applicants cannot be stolen away from certain programs.

ATS
 
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Alexander here, Temple University pre-osteopathy student, 28 years old. I am passionate about Osteopathy.

Thats what I like to hear!

I'm convinced and have been for some time now that OMM/NMM is my prime interest and motivation for embracing Osteopathy, however, with the rise of PsychoNeuroImmunology-[Endocrinology]
on the horizon...
I mean those who are interested in the two (if there are any reading this I'd love to hear from you) KNOW how exciting the possabilities are.
The sober study of chronic stress on the immune system isn't a new one, let's own that Psychiatry has contributed a bunch to the subject, but I think we're all hoping that preventative medicine and perhaps CAM therapies and just the general outlook on PSYCHO vs. SOMATIC conditions in the mainstream is evolving to a greater height.
I don't intend to ramble on, I just wanted to ask the following:

There are some interesting concepts being studied regarding neuroimmunology and OMT.

I'm considering (Midwestern) ChicagoCOM and PCOM, and any other COM school in keeping with an open mind. A dual degree program is difficult, but HOW difficult? Can admin's put it into a context for us pre-meds? Let's just take the MPH and DO dual track as our example.


The difficulty of these programs largely depends on how it is structured. Some schools give you an entire year to devote to the additional degree (most common) while others work to incorporate some of your study into your medical years. Also, the type of degree and requirements will determine how much time you need to devote to study for that. Its difficult to give an exact answer to this without knowing the finer points of the dual degree program in question.

Are there schools that allow students to participate in a dual track AND a undergraduate fellowship in OMM? Albiet the schooling would be 6 years instead of 4, I'd jump at the chance if I felt that the MPH degree would give me greater insight and would make me more productive to my peers and patients in the study of psychoneuroimmunology, any comments on this point?

I do not know of any school that allows you to complete both.

To be clear, I mean psychoneuroimmunology as characterized by such discussions that take place on National Public Radio, if there's any fans out there. Of course there's no residency in PNI ... YET.. ;)... but I'm planning on OMM/NMM as my foundation residency program to explore PNI as a sub-specialty.

I think much of this study would need to be done in the research arena rather than in a clinical post graduate fellowship anyway. This is an area of great interest and I think it has wide spread clinical applications.

I've done a search for posts on the subject here on the forum and only found shamanism.. which is interesting but not necessarily my expressed interest.

Sincerely Interested,

Alexander

Very good questions.

Try a search for David A. Baron

Also, here are some resources that you may want to explore:

Journals:
1. Journal of the National Cancer Institute 1990(monograph #10); 79-82
2. Journal of Immunology 1985; 135:820-826
3. Archives of General Psychiatry 1984; 41:484-486

Keyword search terms:
1. Neuroimunology
2. Psychoimmunology
3. Psychoneuroimmunology
4. Immune AND Stress
5. Immune AND Depression
6. Psychosocial AND Immune

Hope that is a good starting point

ATS
 
Dear ATS,
I will be starting in the fall at TOURO-NY (as the first class), and I have always been interested in neurosurgery/neurology.

Two very different fields.

I am going to school on a Health Professions Scholarship from the military and I know that their match is earlier and usually one has a better chance of getting their residency choice.

That is not necessarily the case. Recruiters tend to glorify the match rates of military graduates. I would speak with upperclassmen and see what they tell you.


Since I want to go into neurosurgery, do you think that the neuroscience faculty would be able to guide me in the right direction of making me a stronger applicant to such a competitive program? I appreciate any and all advice.

I think speaking with the neuroscience people at your school would be a very good idea. Perhaps you can become involved with some research projects that will likely help your application.

As said above, dont get fooled into thinking that just because you are military you have an easier road in the match. Thats not true at all

ATS
 
I'm drawn to the D.O. programs by their somewhat stronger basic primary care emphasis and broader scope and focus compared to M.D. programs. However, in some ways D.O.s seem to be going only the extra inch. Both D.O. and M.D. programs seem to be light in emphasis on nutrition, exercise as theraphy and preventative healthcare, and other alternative theraphies. I'm aware of a few alternative programs, but graduates of those programs aren't genrally able to be licensed as physicians. In some ways where those programs are today reminds me of where your school was a few generations back.
Are there any D.O. schools that tend to be more heavily committed to the broader scope of health and healing?

I think the osteopathic education itself is committed to exploring options for maintaining health and maximizing nutrition and other resources.

Off the top of my head I dont know of any schools that push this more than others.

I would look into Kirksville and their clinically integrated osteopathic medicine resources and also PCOM and their "Seek Health" program.

ATS
 
Dear ATS,

I am interested in starting a SIGN (Student Interest Group in Neurology, a national medical school organization) at TOURO, shadowing a neurologist/neurosurgeon, and participating in research. Since the school is just opening, the research labs are not yet set up; is it difficult to get involved in research outside of the school (such as in a clinical setting) if I have previous research involving neuroscience?

The ability to find and secure a research position depends on numerous factors. Location and proximity to centers participating in this type of research, your affiliation with those academic centers, the likelihood of these places to take outside medical students, etc.

I would focus on the summer between 1st and 2nd year as the time to do research. Unfortunately I do not have the resources to help you find these types of projects in your area.

Also, aside from great scores, what else do you recommend to make my application competitive for neurology/neurosurgery?

As you mentioned above, research. Particularly for the neurosurgery programs (or any surgical program) research is a huge bonus. But with these progams it still comes down to boards and grades. Also, letters of recommendation from well known and respected physicians.

Also, do you recommend that D.O. students take both the USMLE and COMLEX exams?

Yes I do. I once had a colleague who told me that he wasnt going to take the USMLE because he "shouldnt have to take the other test to prove himself." Dumb move. He was rejected before he interviewed at some places.

Why take the USMLE? Because it is a test score that makes it very easy for the programs to compare you side by side to an MD applicant...plain and simple. Many programs will indeed take a COMLEX score, but they largely prefer a USMLE score.

I always tell DOs to take the USMLE. The only acceptions are those who are military or who are applying only to osteopathic programs in which case it doesnt matter.

ATS
 
Ok, thanks. I really had no idea how this all worked. I'm really not sure where I'll end up but i guess it's good to know the rules before you play the game. thanks for enlightening me.

Youre welcome

ATS
 
Hi I'm highly interested in orthopaedic surgery. Everything I read about DO programs claims that they stress more A&P, however; I have not yet located a DO orthopaedic surgeon. Would going DO be a poor move to accomplish my goals?

Orthopedic surgery is becoming increasingly competitive. There are a good number of DO Orthos, in fact there are 30 osteopathic orthopedic surgery residency programs.

A DO may have a difficult time matching at a top ranked allopathic ortho spot, but can indeed be competitive in the rest of the allopathic world.

My suggestion to you at this point would be to choose the school that best fits you and do well...your residency application will come in time.

If you are at all concerned and do not think you will be happy at a DO school then dont attend.

As DOs we do indeed spend a great deal of time working on anatomy, particularly in the musculoskeletal system.

An orthopedic surgeon armed with the ability to perform Osteopathic Manipulation and do it efficiently and properly is going to do very well for himself/herself.

ATS
 
Hi there! It's me again with two more questions.

Lets hear them

1. Do you recommend applying early decision if you are pretty much average for the school? Would it put you at an extreme disadvantage when applying to other schools after Oct 1? Also can you apply early decision to one school each of allopathic and osteopathic, or only one altogether?

These questions might be better directed to the Medical School Admissions Mentor. As far as applying, APPLY EARLY. Now, what you need to be careful of are the criteria that come along with an early decision application. Perhaps speaking with the admissions people at the school you are interested in could answer some of these questions.

2. Is it required to have a pre-med committee letter when they don't even know you; or is it better to hve individual professors who know you really well to write separate letters? Can a professor send the letter to the committee to write a letter from multiple professors and then submit their own letter as well?

Again...I might not be the best person to ask.

The best LOR are those that come from someone who knows you professionally and can attest to your work ethic, but also knows you a little personally and can talk about how you are a compassionate person.

However you can compile letters that come across like that, do it.



Sorry I couldnt help more. The other Mentor forum might be more beneficial

ATS
 
Let me first say thank you for all the time you spend helping us ignorant students.

Youre welcome

My question is can you belong to too many groups. If i am not sure what I want to do should I join all the groups that interest me in my med school? Or is it like high school/college...the more extracurriculars the better?

I dont think high school and college are even "the more the better".

My opinion has always been that serious involvement in a few organizations that fit you is the best way to go.

Colleges, medical schools and residencies want to see leadership ability and passion for something (volunteering, specialty choice, sports). They want to see that you can do well in school AND make a serious committment to something else.

I dont think spreading yourself too thin is a good idea for a few reasons, time management being the most important.

Try to find a few clubs or professional societies that offer you an opportunity to be involved in the way you like to be involved. I think you will be happier with what you can do with that organization and your grades will likely thank you for it.

ATS
 
In order to use USMLE scores for residency as a DO do you have to take both step 1 and 2 or simply step 1? I'm unfamiliar with how this works, but definitely want to keep my options open for both osteopathic and allopathic residencies.

Most programs only require Step 1 board scores for their residency application, but an increasing number of programs are asking that the applicant also submit Step 2 scores as well.

ATS
 

Hi!

I am currently weighing my options with DO school and I had a few questions.
How do DO classes compare in difficulty to MD classes? How are they similar/dissimiar?

The requirements that both MD and DO schools must adhere to are very similar. Difficult of classes is individualized by the school. Teaching style, type of test, amount of material covered will all play in to how "easy" a class is.

If you are asking if the undergraduate curricula from an MD school and DO school are comparable, yes they are.

Do you think the lower avg admission gpa for DO school compared to MD is due to less competition? Is there less competition?

Some DO schools process almost 4,000 applications per year. I dont know about you, but 4,000 applications for 250 spots seeems pretty competitive to me.

I think the lower entrance numbers are from a few things:
1. Older student population
2. Number of "non traditional" students
3. Precedent of lower numbers attracts applicants with lower numbers.

In residency are they looked upon as 'wannabees' by the other MDs in the same program?

Not that I have come across.

As I have said before, the greatest majority of DO bias occurs in the premedical community. I know it was very prevelant in my colleges premed club. I had friends who opted to go to Podiatry school rather than take their MCAT and GPA to the DO school admissions office. Their choice.

Do MDs look down upon DOs? No.

The best way to prove this is to look at residency programs that have both MD and DO residents. You will find that hospitals all over the country that are considered "top programs" have accepted DOs.

Harvard, Yale, Mayo, Washington, Hopkins. All have DO residents.

ATS
 
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Salut! I'm Charles Darney, recent DO grad now in residency. Hope I can answer some of your questions.


YogiDO said:
I'm currently accepted to a DO school, but I am questioning whether I will attend or not. I am very interested in the aspects of Osteopathy which are the core principles Still created the philosophy with. The body's innate ability to heal, structure/function, the primary importance of the musculoskeletal system, etc. Obviously, osteopathy has changed since Still was alive. In your opinion, would advise someone who wants to prescribe meds Minimally, and wants to pursue a holistic, mind-body, integrative practice, to attend medical school. Why not simply do Bodywork, nutritional consultation, psychotherapy, basically everything that I plan on doing with a DO degree, but simply doing it without the credentials behind my name. Obviously I wouldn't be a physician if I went that route. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

First, congrats on your acceptance.

I think you have a misconception of what osteopathic medicine is. It is not "holistic mind-body integrative" medicine. Osteopathic medicine is your standard medical education working with the framework that structure and function are related and can and will affect the body. In addition to the standard treatments for various pathologies, you also learn some manual techniques to complement those treatments. The goal is to restore the body back to normal though various means ... whether it is pharmacotherapy, surgery, or some form of manual medicine.

The second part of your question deals with why should you choose osteopathic medicine instead of an integrative psychotherapy/nutritional counseling/bodywork if that is your overall goal at the end. The answer is simple - you want what is best for your patient. You want to recognize pathology and make the proper referral. There is a saying in medicine - "the eyes cannot see what the mind does not know". Without proper education, you will not be able to recognize disease that your patients present with. Would you know when to send the patient to the ER immediately? Would you know when to refer to a specialist? Would you know what questions to ask to differentiate between sick and non-sick? Plus you will be able to prescribe meds, which can be a nice complement to whatever treatment modality you are using. You will also be able to prescribe physical therapy, get proper imaging studies, etc.
 
i have two questions..

1)can you explain the transition between osteopathic med-school and the first year of internship (do you choose where you can go)

2) do residents get paid

Thanks

Hello

The quick answer to Question #2 is YES (thank god!!). How much depends on the institution you are doing your residency.

Answer to Question #1 - yes and no. During your 4th year of a DO medical school, you have to apply for internship and/or residency. As a DO student, you have a choice to make. You can do an osteopathic intern year and reapply the following year for residency. You can apply for an osteopathic residency (with the intern year built in as your first year). You can apply to an allopathic (acgme) residency.

You apply to the various programs (mostly through ERAS) and submit a personal statement, letters of recommendations, deans letter (MSPE), board scores, med school transcript. Programs will invited applicants they like to interviews. Then you submit a list of programs, ranked in order from most desired to least, of where you would like to go for residency. The residency program will submit their own list, ranked, of applicants they would like. A computer will then "match" the applicant's submitted list with the residency's submitted list and generate a final result of what program the applicant will go to. At that point, you are bound to go to the program you matched. It is a very complicated process (and there are exceptions to what I wrote but it is beyond the scope of this response)
 
BubbaGump187 said:
Do you recommend doing research during medical school or is this uncommon and only done during residency?

Depends on what you want out of research? If you want to get into a competitive specialty, research helps but not required. If you want to get into a competitive program, research will definately help. Now if research will take time away from your studies and you suffer academically because of it, then research won't help your application.


Do you think osteopathic physicians in the same specialty get less patients than allopathic because of their name difference?

Nope.

Is there a lot of discrimination against DO's in ACGME IM subspecialty fellowships?

For fellowships, where you do your residency, who writes your letters of recommendations, and who is willing to go to bat for you has greater weight than where you went for med school. The amount of discrimination is also harder to quantify because it can be institution specific, subspecialty field specific, region specific, program director specific, etc.
 
I have a good question for you, I have recently been infromed by a current Osteopathic Medical student who has the offered SOMA medical insurance and she has discovered that SOMA's insurance doens't even cover OMM, HOW COULD THIS BE?

Since I never participated with SOMA's college health insurance plan, I cannot answer your question with much knowledge or experience.

If you are unsure whether OMM treatment is covered by SOMA's college health plan insurance, give them a call and ask. According to their website, questions should be directed towards the Insurance Administrator, Mass Marketing Insurance Consultants (MMIC), at 1-800-349-1039

http://www.somainsurance.com/
 
Hi, I'm Jayne. I'll be helping out Charles Darnay mentor with the any questions you might have about Osteopathic medicine. I'm also a recent D.O. graduate and enjoy the profession substancially and hope to dispell any myths or other questions you might have.

Thanks,

J
 
BubbaGump187 said:
What is your experience in job/personal descrimination or mayber your coworkers? For large hospital institutions?

I personally have not experienced any overt discrimination. I've also been through several large university hospitals and haven't experienced any overt discrimination. However, misperceptions, stereotypes, and misunderstandings are rampant, especially in areas where there are very few DOs, and discrimination may be more prominant in those areas compare to areas where DOs are more represented.

What are some factors that will make you a good candidate for Well recognized Allopathic residencies in Internal Medicine?
- USMLE, Grades, Letters, Research? which are important in your opinion for top tier residency programs in IM?

I would recommend you pose this question in the Internal Medicine mentor thread. Good USMLE and class ranks are important factors to be considered in the running for top tier IM programs. Interesting research, great LORs, and getting honors (and letters) from audition rotations at top tier IM programs will also be helpful. But I would recommend you check out the IM Mentor thread.

Have you ever had patients who did not recognize you or chose not to go to you after learning that you are a DO and not an MD?

Not that I am aware of. (to ponder: if a patient never came to me because I'm a DO, how would I know that a certain patient never came to me because I'm a DO?)
 
FENDERGUITARMAN said:
If I shadowed a pathologist who is a D.O. would a letter from him be less effective than a letter from a D.O. who is an anesthesiologist? I am concerned that the schools will wonder why I have shadowed a pathologist who doesn't see patients.


Whether a letter from a DO pathologist instead of a DO Anesthesiologist is more or less "effective" is more a judgement call for an admission officer to make. Perhaps you should pose your question in the Med School Admission thread (in regards to shadowing pathologist instead of an anesthesiologist)

There are some great pathologists in osteopathic medical schools.
 
Hi! I am presently retaking organic chemistry which was previously worth 4 credits. My present course is more hours and therefore awarded 5 credits. Will this new grade still replace my previous grade?

I would suggest you contact AACOM to get the answer.

AACOMAS
5550 Friendship Blvd., Suite 310
Chevy Chase, MD 20815
301-968-4190
[email protected]

Another unrelated question: once I am done with summer school I desperately need a paid job. I've done a decent amount of clinical volunteer work, volunteered as a research assistant with a DO and am working on an independent project, which i hope will stand out. Should I hold out for a medical/science type of job or is it ok to take any paid job I can get? What else can I do to enhance my application? I have about a 3.6+ gpa and a higher sciecne one. I have not taken the MCAT yet. What do i need on the MCAT to be considered competitive, especially at NYCOM? I'm a NY resident.

I am unfamilar with the intricacies of admission process at NYCOM. You can either call NYCOM's admission office and speak to an admission officer, or you may be able to seek help in the pre-osteo or osteo forums where other Student Doctor Network members may be more knowledgable. My advice is to focus on doing as well as possible on the MCAT, and aim for the highest that you can achieve.

In regards to your job/clinical volunteer situation - I am unqualified to answer that. May I suggest you talk to your premed advisor about your options. Another option may be to pose your question in the med school admission mentor thread.
 
Dr. Josh said:
Thanks, Charles Darnay for all your help. Unfortunately I don't have a pre-med advisor and really have no clue who to talk to. I actuallly graduated from school so don't really have advisors to go to either.

Perhaps you can pose your dilemma in the med school admission mentor thread. Another option is to go back to your alma mater and see if they provide pre-med or pre-health advising to alumni such as yourself.

My personal opinion is that doing health-related activities (shadowing, working in the healthcare field, research, etc) is intended to expose potential applicants to a glimpse of the wide world of medicine and let the potential applicants know what exactly "medicine" is ... and how related or unrelated it is to television medicine or how it differs from the public perceptions of what medicine is. If you feel that you have adequate exposure to medicine at this point and desperately need income, no one can fault you for obtaining a non-healthcare related job to generate income. But that is my opinion ... seek the advice from a premed advisor, in the med school admission mentor forum, or perhaps in the forums themselves (take all responses with the grain of salt, and judge which options is best for you)
 
max831 said:
I am curious to know if I will face difficulty getting into an allopathic 3 year EM residency in PA without completing an osteopathic rotating internship first. I have no desire to practice in any of the five states requiring the internship. Any information you can supply would be extremely helpful. Thank you.

Max831

Concerning the competitiveness of an allopathic 3-year EM residency, I would suggest you visit the Emergency Medicine mentor thread or visit the EM forum here on Student Doctor Network.

The AOA has recently revamped the osteopathic internships ... so in the near future, your osteopathic internship may be built into your osteopathic EM residency ... thus you won't have to complete a seperate osteopathic internship before starting your osteopathic EM residency. Currently some program have their osteopathic intern year built into their EM residency, while others require their applicants to complete an osteopathic intern year first.

Another avenue to pursue is to get your PGY1 allopathic intern year AOA-approved via Resolution 42. There are certain requirements set forth within Resolution 42 that must be met, but a EM resident shouldn't have too much difficulty fulfilling the requirements ... the difficulty of getting it approved by the AOA is being questioned right now and is generating some interesting debates (check out the JAOA for recent articles discussing Resolution 42)

Why get your intern year AOA approved? Because it keeps the doors open for the future, when you might possibly want to work in the 5 states that require an AOA-approved intern year. No one can predict the future or where the opportunity of a lifetime will come.
 
HarveyCushing said:
I will be beginning med-school at KCUMB this August.

Hey, congratulations. :hardy: School is about to start soon :scared::eek:

HarveyCushing said:
I have an interest in sports medicine and was wondering whether it would be to my advantage to consider doing an OMM fellowship during med-school if I decide that I really want to go into SM? Would I learn enough OMM during med-school and be proficient at it to use it later on in practice? Or would an extra year devoted to OMM be a better option eventhough I would loose a year? Due to location I would most likely enter a ACGME program, so I wouldn't get much OMM training during residency.

I assume you are talking about a Primary Care Sports Medicine fellowship (a 1-year post-residency fellowship that eligible EM, IM, FM, and Peds people can do). There's also a Sports Medicine fellowship for orthopedic surgeons.

Your question is basically whether you can do OMM without having done an OMM fellowship. The answer is: depends. Practice makes perfect and doing a OMM fellowship will give you roughly a year of practice in doing OMM ... touching and treating patients, helping teach OMM ... the more you see, the more you learn and the more you know. However, if you don't do a OMM fellowship, you may still be able to feel confident in doing OMM but you need to be dedicated to it ... practice your OMT techniques during your first two years, set up rotations with osteopathic physicians who routinely offer and do OMT treatments. You will find that OMM is applicable in many fields, from surgery to primary care (IM, Peds, FM), OB (low back pain due to increase lordosis), etc. After medical school, you can still attend seminars to practice and learn new technqiues. It really all depends on how much training do you think you need to feel comfortable.
 
after i get into medical school, possibly a D.O. if i choose that route, i would rather work for a hospital than private practice. however, being a chicago native, i would like to work for a top notch hospital in maybe downtown like Childrens Memorial, Northwestern's hospital, luthern, etc. why is it that the whole complete doctor roster of almost all the hopsitals consists of only M.D.? i would assume that DO are able to apply and have a chance of employment but would i be to bold to say that DO are not able to work in highly recognized hospitals such as childrens memorial and such?

Hospitals ... land of a thousand contracts, and each of them different.

Working for a hospital may not necessarily mean working for a hospital. In many cases, physicians are part of a group that have a contract with a particular hospital to offer services, akin to independant contract work. In this case, it is the physician group that decides who they hire (either as an employee or as a potential future partner).
Some groups may be purely hospital-based. Other groups may split their time between different hospitals. Other groups may be part-time hospital, part-time private practice/outpatients (with physicians rotating assignments between outpatient and inpatient work). The hospital's job in this case is to "credential" the new physician, to make sure the qualifications are in ordered and determine what can and cannot be done by the new physician.

Then you have academic medicine, who works in the hospital, and are employees (or faculty) of either the hospital or a medical college. They may be full-time academic clinicians, or clinicians-researchers (either clinical or bench).

Then you also have hospitalists, who are employees of the hospitals (but there are hospitalists who form groups and are considered independant contractors working with hospitals).

Confused yet? Just wanted to show you a taste of what "employment" really means and to let you know that it is not as straight forward as many outside of medicine would believed. Also, working in prestigous places does not necessarily coorelate to higher income (often it is the reverse). You are "paying" for the priviledge to work at such a prestigous place :laugh:

In regards to why so few DOs listed in various hospitals ... a few hypothesises ... DOs only make up roughly 10% of all physicians, a majority of DOs end up in primary care settings, and not that many DOs end up in allopathic academic medicine. Geographic location is also a factor ... you will have an easier time finding DOs in cities with established DO schools that have been around for many years compared to relative new DO schools or region lacking a DO schools.

Also keep in mind that sometimes a DO might be listed as an MD on a hospital website. I know a few examples of DOs who are listed as MDs. It just might be the default web settings for physicians when it was designed by a web designer/programmer (and boy did they have a wild goose chase trying to get it corrected )
 
i would rather work for a hospital than private practice.

I can completely relate to not wanting to work in a clinic, but there are far more options than working on your own, and working for someone else. The permutations of how you can make money as an Osteopathic Physician are quite numerous.

but would i be to bold to say that DO are not able to work in highly recognized hospitals such as childrens memorial and such?

I do not know the politics or the status of any discrimination in the Chicago area. You'd have to talk to the DOs in Chicago to find out if any DO discrimination exists. But in my opinion, the disparity will have more than likely have more to do with Children's Hospital being very heavy in Research. We DOs are pretty notorious for being lax when it comes to participating in research, both clinical and bench. It has been stated that if you added up all of the NIH funding for research granted to all of the Osteopathic schools, we would still rank around 200th for total NIH funding.

Now I'd ask you this. Do you wish to work at a hospital such as Children's for its status as a great Hospital, or because you are really interested in research?
 
ok mr taylor

i was confused as to how osteopathic med students apply to allopathic residencies. i understand that when your in med school, you take your liscensing exam and get matched to a residency, so for a osteopathic student he/she could get matched into a osteopathic residency, but how do they get into allopathic...do they need to take the USLME on top of the COMLEX? if you could help answer this question that would be great! thanks

I'll take a stab at this even though I'm not Mr. Taylor

Your question is basically what steps does an osteopathic student have to take in order to get into an allopathic residency?

It really depends. Some ACGME programs do not require USMLE and will accept COMLEX. Some programs will require USMLE. So contact the programs you are interested and see if they require USMLE. If the programs tell you that they are familar with COMLEX and don't require USMLE ... well, there's your answer. If some program require USMLE and others do not, then you will have to decide whether or not you should take the USMLE.

Sometime during your 4th year of medical school, you just apply to the programs you are interested. Both use the same electronic application - ERAS. For the match, if you want an ACGME residency, you apply for the NRMP. If you want an AOA program, you apply for the AOA Match. You can apply for both matches if you desire. Since the AOA Match occurs before the NRMP Match, if you match into an AOA program, you are automatically withdrawn from the NRMP Match.
 
Hi. I have a question. I have just applied to both osteopathic and allopathic medical programs. My only real issue with osteopathic medicine is that there are only a few states that have a fairly prominent osteopathic base, Michigan being one of them. States like North Carolina have a very small DO population. My fiance and I don't want to be limited to a certain state by my career....

Hopefully this message is still of use. It is true that some states have more osteopathic physicians than others, but every state allows osteopathic physicians full practice rights for medicine & surgery.

What exactly does it mean when a state has a small DO population?

Simply that the state does not have many practicing osteopathic physicians. You will typically find that these states are those that lack a DO medical school.

Is it more difficult to get a job in those states? Sorry it's so long :D

No, you won't be limited in any state regardless of the number of DOs practicing there.
 
I am very interested in Peds CTS, but I am fairly positive there are no osteopathic Peds CTS fellowships, but there is an osteopathic adult CTS fellowship at Deborah in NJ (which I hear is great). My question is this: would it be possible to do an osteopathic general surgery residency followed by an osteopathic adult CTS fellowship and then do an allopathic Peds CTS fellowship? Or, would it be almost impossible to land a Peds CTS spot as an osteopathic candidate?

It would be possible to do a residency and fellowships in the manager that you mentioned, but that doesn't have to be how you pursue this. I would recommend pursuing a pediatric surgery residency (you'll have to do an ACGME residency as there are zero ostoepathic ones) and then look at doing a pediatric cardiac surgery fellowship. If you have difficulty landing a pediatric surgery residency then consider a transitional year (some may require this anyway). If you do well enough in your residency you stand a chance at this fellowship, but know from the start that there are VERY FEW of these spots and whether MD or DO you have to be in the top to make it. Good luck.
 
As a note this thread is now reopened. If you would like your question to remain anonymous please indicate that within your post. I'll then remove your ID before it becomes public. Thanks!
 
Hey Dr. Still,

I was wondering about getting a letter from a D.O. I recently sent in a request for a mentor on the site that was posted on the D.O. FAQ. I was wondering how most pre-D.O. students get letters from D.O.s? Is it just mainly through them shadowing the D.O.s? Is that good enough? How many times do you think I should shadow before I ask for a letter? Thanks. -_-.

Oh and I'm taking my MCAT this June :thumbdown:. I know the earlier the better, but when do you think is a good range for the primaries/secondaries. I was thinking I'll send the primaries out as soon as I get my MCAT score and then the secondaries... maybe a month or so after.. say late August? Are those deadlines fine?
 
I was just wondering how likely it is that D.O.s would be able to teach, or become an assistant professor, at an M.D. school?
 
sorry about this second topic, but also do schools that offer D.O. also offer a joint degree in MPH. I'm kind of just wondering what options there are out there outside of just practicing if I were to go toward a D.O.
 
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