• Please review the updated member agreement. Included is a new statement supporting the scientific method and evidence-based medicine. Claims or statements about disease processes should reference widely accepted scientific resources. Theoretical medical speculation is encouraged as part of the overall scientific process. However, unscientific statements that promote unfounded ideological positions or agendas may be removed.

UHSDOMBA

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 28, 2003
53
0
Visit site
Status
Hey wise ones,
Just curious if anyone can give me some input or insight about the DO optho programs, in terms of admissions criteria, quality of the programs, etc. Thanks!

:clap:
 

DO for ophtho

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2003
127
0
Visit site
Status
Just my 2 cents on the DO residencies out there....

There are only 9 programs nationwide, and only one of those programs links your internship to the residency. At the other programs you and a couple other students who are interested in ophtho apply for internship year and then apply separately for the ophtho residency the following year. The programs are very small only taking one or two residents per year. Inevitably, someone who did their internship year is going to be left out and will have to start the process over or go into something else.

I rotated at the 2 programs in ohio...grandview in dayton and doctors in columbus and was not impressed by either. Residents at these programs, are in my opinion, not getting adequate surgical experience. Often the senior residents try to go to honduras or somewhere else in an attempt to get experience with phacos. I contrast that with my ophtho rotations at allopathic hospitals where even the 1st year ophtho residents were getting surgical experience.

The only DO program I have heard positive feedback about is the Osteopathic Consortium in Detriot. From what I understand, students get to work with attendings from Beaumont, Henry Ford, and other surrounding allopathic programs which is what makes the training at this site particularly good.

just my 2 cents, hope it helps.
 

Atlas

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 27, 2001
844
5
Columbus, OH
Visit site
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
That's very interesting. Is Doctor's ophtho program competitive? I know some places in the CORE that will take you if they like you and have sub-par board scores. Is this program like that?
 
About the Ads

DOnut

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 17, 2001
493
1
New Orleans, LA
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Although I am studying for the USMLE right now, and will apply allo, I'm also keeping my eye on several osteopathic programs. Of the 9 program, I believe only three warrant consideration.

PCOM- one of the older and larger programs. Many residents have gone on to successfully complete the fellowships of their choice. I have even met a graduate of PCOM's ophthalmology program who completed a glaucoma fellowship at Wilmer. I met him during an ARVO conference in Skaneateles, NY.

Osteopathic Consortium in Detriot- Seems to be solid. I am planning to visit. Even if I do not do an away rotation there, I definitely think that I will make the effort to see the place for myself. From those whom I have spoken with at the Detroit program, they all love it, and have plenty of surgical experience. I'm not sure about fellowship placement.

Doctors Hospital in Columbus- On paper this appears to be a good place. I don't know much about it, however. I know that DO for ophtho is a resident right now (if she's the person I'm thinking of... I think :confused: ) so I wont post any more about that.

I did speak with a graduate of the Grandview program (Dr. Spencer) and in his opinion, it is solid. He has a general ophthalmology practice that is very successful. He says that his surgical load is exactly what he wants, and its plenty.

So, take that for whatever it's worth. I think that any of the above programs will allow you to become a competent general ophthalmologist. As far as subspecialty training, I'm not too sure.

The question, I ask myself is, would I be satisfied practicing general ophthalmology. Um... probably YES.
 

Atlas

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 27, 2001
844
5
Columbus, OH
Visit site
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
DOnut,

Thanks for your reply. Good luck with the USMLE's. I, too, would be more than satisfied with being a general ophthalmologist. Can you elaborate, for your experience, whether the DO programs are less competitive or equally competitive as their MD counterparts? Thanks.

Atlas
OUCOM - 2007
 

DOnut

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 17, 2001
493
1
New Orleans, LA
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Originally posted by Atlas
Can you elaborate, for your experience, whether the DO programs are less competitive or equally competitive as their MD counterparts?

I wouldn't count on them being less competitive. Fewer applicants definitely, but there are also fewer programs to choose from. Just as those with the highest scores on the USMLE match in competitive programs, those with the highest COMLEX scores will match into the competitive osteopathic programs.

My suggestion is to do as well as possible, then you don't have to worry about it.

But then again, I'm only a second year. I really don't know $hit yet. But I'll keep digging, and if I learn anything new, it will be posted.
 

ajgoins

Junior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Jan 14, 2004
18
0
Visit site
Status
I'm a 2nd yr DO student so take this info with a grain of salt. I've talked with a couple of residents associated with the Grandview residency and they both had good things to say about the program. Both thought they were being trained to be good general ophthos. I haven't looked at any stats to confirm what these folks said but both agreed that Grandview is a competative residency. As with any ophtho program, there's a lot of apps for only one or two spots per year so you need good numbers. These guys estimated ranking in the top 15% of your class and scoring in the top 15% on the COMLEX (at least) to get an interview, assuming good LOR, etc. Rotation/internship at Grandview seemed to be a must. This conversation was a couple years ago and I think these guys have since graduated, but, they did add that you should never underestimate the power of being the "good ol' boy"...it has gotten more than one person a cometative spot before.
 

DOnut

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 17, 2001
493
1
New Orleans, LA
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Originally posted by ajgoins
never underestimate the power of being the "good ol' boy"...it has gotten more than one person a cometative spot before.
Yeah well there go my chances. I'm a black kid who lives in Queens. Hardly a "good ol' boy." :rolleyes:
 

ajgoins

Junior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Jan 14, 2004
18
0
Visit site
Status
I don't think they ment you have to change your name to Rob "Bubba" Byrd, just wash the PD's car every weekend and be nothing but smiles during the week. One of these residents said he just commented on how attractive the PD's daughter was at one point and ever since then it was like he was the PD's best friend. :)
 

doc0875

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Aug 23, 2002
28
0
51
Visit site
Status
Atlas said:
That's very interesting. Is Doctor's ophtho program competitive? I know some places in the CORE that will take you if they like you and have sub-par board scores. Is this program like that?
Doctors Hospital in Columbus, Ohio somehow still carries itself on past reputation. It is a place that has definitely had a drastic "fall from grace" in recent years. Many, many students, interns, residents leave Doctors bitter & unhappy at their experience there. The hospital & DME have actually been sued several times. Ask Dr. Hilliard (the DME) about the lengthy law suit by an ex-ENT track intern by the name of Vern Reynolds, D.O. Trust me, look elsewhere for any D.O. training.
 

speyeder

Attending
15+ Year Member
Jul 24, 2004
421
10
If MD's & DO's are equals, then why is it that DO's can apply to allopathic ophtho programs but MD's can't apply to osteopathic ophtho programs?
 

Andrew_Doan

Doc, Author, Entrepreneur
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Oct 1, 2002
5,633
19
San Diego, CA
www.facebook.com
Status
Attending Physician
If you're an osteopathic physician applying to an allopathic ophthalmology residency, then I strongly advise that you take the USMLE.
 

melmc

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2003
95
1
Out west
Visit site
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Andrew_Doan said:
If you're an osteopathic physician applying to an allopathic ophthalmology residency, then I strongly advise that you take the USMLE.
Are DO students at a disadvantage in applying for MD optho residencies? In other words, is it more difficult for DO student?s to get into MD residencies, even with similar credentials to their MD cohorts?
 

odieoh

Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Jun 25, 2003
384
30
www.cubs.com
Status
Attending Physician
melmc said:
Are DO students at a disadvantage in applying for MD optho residencies? In other words, is it more difficult for DO student?s to get into MD residencies, even with similar credentials to their MD cohorts?
yes
 

Andrew_Doan

Doc, Author, Entrepreneur
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Oct 1, 2002
5,633
19
San Diego, CA
www.facebook.com
Status
Attending Physician
melmc said:
Are DO students at a disadvantage in applying for MD optho residencies? In other words, is it more difficult for DO student?s to get into MD residencies, even with similar credentials to their MD cohorts?
Yes. Also, it's interesting to me that the DO applicants who I have seen apply do NOT take the USMLE. Allopathic programs cannot use the COMLEX to judge the knowledge and performance of an individual compared to other students who took the USMLE. If a DO applicant applies to a MD ophthalmology residency program, then I strongly advise that the DO applicant take the USMLE too.
 

melmc

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2003
95
1
Out west
Visit site
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Acknowledging the fact that each residency program with vary on the specifics, are there any specific credentials/qualifications that programs look for (research, certain honors, etc) outside of the standard ?competitive-applicant? category that all competitive specialties seek?
I am asking as an MS1, with the next few years ahead of me to work with. While there is always room for seeking any number of specialties, I would also like to do all I can to keep the possibilities open, and therefore not limit myself simply because I was uninformed about what it takes to be a solid residency applicant?
Any tips?
 
About the Ads