Osteopathic physicians make more than Allopathic physicians?

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The title of this thread is asking if DOs earn more than MDs, I am asking the question in terms of both populations, US trained MDs vs DOs, a US trained MD is more likely to be in a specialty, and therefore make more money than a DO. That is just the way things are.

Many DOs who are primary care doctors, provide OMT to increase their incomes, so there are cases where DOs can earn more than an MD in the same field of medicine.

A lot of my classmates came to medical school hoping to get into specialty field, but many wind up in primary care.

It seems that some people might be forgetting that questions posed on SDN usually lead to a multidimensional discussion about said question. So it is absolutely appropriate to bring up another side of an argument or pose an additional question which facilitates discussion that may or may not answer the OP's exact inquiry.

I couldn't imagine having to read the same answers to the posed question a hundred times without some variety to the discussion. These forums tend to be repetitive as is, so let's welcome other viewpoints and approaches to answering a question or spurring new ones.

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Not an DO student, but I did hear that cranial bone manipulations + the Celiac Ganglion Release technique are very sought after, high reimbursement procedures
 
I agree, I would get an MRI if they complain of numbness and tingling down the legs into the feet. If not, HVLA is your friend. Plus, MRI is not always available in an area (I work where they have travelling MRI's on a semi van that comes weekly). Most times OMT will fix the problem.
But what happens if OMT doesn't fix the problem? Can the patient come back and ask for a refund or can the insurance company come back and say it didn't do anything so you will not be paid?
 
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But what happens if OMT doesn't fix the problem? Can the patient come back and ask for a refund or can the insurance company come back and say it didn't do anything so you will not be paid?
No, it's just like anything in medicine. If you give someone a pill to take and they have an allergy to it or that particular BP med just isn't effective you think the patient gets a refund on that? NO. You try what you know first, and not every patient gets OMT. Plus, I always ask if they want to try that first since many patients actually don't want to take pills. You have to be selective. There is always the chance that OMT won't fix it, it's just another modality in the arsenal to use.
 
No, it's just like anything in medicine. If you give someone a pill to take and they have an allergy to it or that particular BP med just isn't effective you think the patient gets a refund on that? NO. You try what you know first, and not every patient gets OMT. Plus, I always ask if they want to try that first since many patients actually don't want to take pills. You have to be selective. There is always the chance that OMT won't fix it, it's just another modality in the arsenal to use.
But let's say that you work for a large hospital with supervising doctors or what not who doesn't really believe/use OMT.... can you get into trouble for having used it?
 
Any FP who lays down for a 150K contract either doesn't have that much debt or just is doing it wrong. Need to add another 100K to that figure I know I do.

The medscape report seems to think family practice doctors make more like 175,000 per year. What exactly are they doing wrong?
 
But let's say that you work for a large hospital with supervising doctors or what not who doesn't really believe/use OMT.... can you get into trouble for having used it?
I've never heard of a physician, MD or DO, getting in trouble with a licensing board for practicing reasonable medicine within the scope of his training.
Of course there are OMM skeptics.
 
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But let's say that you work for a large hospital with supervising doctors or what not who doesn't really believe/use OMT.... can you get into trouble for having used it?
Once you are an attending you don't have 'supervising doctor" it comes down to what hospital priviledges you apply for.
 
Sounds like they need better lawyers?
Yes, and one thing I had to learn is being a doctor is not like any other job offer. You as the physician (and I am ONLY speaking for Family Practice in the current market) need to view yourself as the commodity. Whereas in the "real world" you have 100 people applying for any open retail job, as the physician you have 100 sites vying for you to work for them. Knowing that, all numbers are usually negotiable. This is what I consider to be minimum in a contract for a perm job:

Base salary: 200+ plus bonus production
Tail coverage included if leave early and I don't want to pay back any bonus given
Out clause: 30 days notice or leave sooner by mutual agreement
Student loan repayment included (and I don't mean just being at a rural site that qualifies for NHSC), I want it thrown in - real money
Health Insurance
Vacation time + CME

Now I do locums but I have actually signed 5 perms jobs in 5 years and have resigned all of them either due to hostile work environment or job didn't meet expectations or administration was stupid, or they establishment went bankrupt or I didn't get to take care of the patients how I like to. Too much of free spirit I suppose. I just don't like anyone owning me and dictating my life.

Good luck.
 
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No, it's just like anything in medicine. If you give someone a pill to take and they have an allergy to it or that particular BP med just isn't effective you think the patient gets a refund on that? NO. You try what you know first, and not every patient gets OMT. Plus, I always ask if they want to try that first since many patients actually don't want to take pills. You have to be selective. There is always the chance that OMT won't fix it, it's just another modality in the arsenal to use.


LOL
 
Yes, and one thing I had to learn is being a doctor is not like any other job offer. You as the physician (and I am ONLY speaking for Family Practice in the current market) need to view yourself as the commodity. Whereas in the "real world" you have 100 people applying for any open retail job, as the physician you have 100 sites vying for you to work for them. Knowing that, all numbers are usually negotiable. This is what I consider to be minimum in a contract for a perm job:

Base salary: 200+ plus bonus production
Tail coverage included if leave early and I don't want to pay back any bonus given
Out clause: 30 days notice or leave sooner by mutual agreement
Student loan repayment included (and I don't mean just being at a rural site that qualifies for NHSC), I want it thrown in - real money
Health Insurance
Vacation time + CME

Now I do locums but I have actually signed 5 perms jobs in 5 years and have resigned all of them either due to hostile work environment or job didn't meet expectations or administration was stupid, or they establishment went bankrupt or I didn't get to take care of the patients how I like to. Too much of free spirit I suppose. I just don't like anyone owning me and dictating my life.

Good luck.

Is it hard getting insurance companies to include you in their networks? I've heard this is very difficult, though I'm not sure why.
 
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Is it hard getting insurance companies to include you in their networks? I've heard this is very difficult, though I'm not sure why.
I wouldn't know this since I don't get paid that way. I work locums and get paid by the hour so I am not involved with billing. I know a lot of places I work, the charts are billed under a permanent provider with me secondary so they get paid. I don't know how that works and will never know since I will never have a private practice.
 
But what happens if OMT doesn't fix the problem? Can the patient come back and ask for a refund or can the insurance company come back and say it didn't do anything so you will not be paid?

No. My hospital system bills for OMT. From what I understand it is one of our biggest moneymakers, and anyone wanting a refund would get the same response as anyone who's ever demanded a refund from a hospital for services. And frankly, the scenario doesn't exist at our clinics. Pt's love OMT. I suck at it and I've gotten responses like "I feel much better, what did you do?" It's in such demand that FP residents would be doing it 24/7 at their clinics if the PD's weren't capping it. We even have intern year + OMM residency docs in our clinics doing straight OMT every single day. It makes that much money for us.

I didn't particularly like OMM in medical school and have my reservations about it but I can't deny that the people who learned it well are a valuable commodity, particularly to hospital systems like mine who've learned to bill for it well.
 
I agree that most patients LOVE OMT, it can become an addiction and if you learn it well, the line will form around the building. It usually takes about 2 weeks when I'm at a new site for patients to hear about it and I generally have to tell the scheduling girls not to put in more than 10 a day for me - I just get too tired.
 
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Yes, and one thing I had to learn is being a doctor is not like any other job offer. You as the physician (and I am ONLY speaking for Family Practice in the current market) need to view yourself as the commodity. Whereas in the "real world" you have 100 people applying for any open retail job, as the physician you have 100 sites vying for you to work for them. Knowing that, all numbers are usually negotiable. This is what I consider to be minimum in a contract for a perm job:

Base salary: 200+ plus bonus production
Tail coverage included if leave early and I don't want to pay back any bonus given
Out clause: 30 days notice or leave sooner by mutual agreement
Student loan repayment included (and I don't mean just being at a rural site that qualifies for NHSC), I want it thrown in - real money
Health Insurance
Vacation time + CME

Now I do locums but I have actually signed 5 perms jobs in 5 years and have resigned all of them either due to hostile work environment or job didn't meet expectations or administration was stupid, or they establishment went bankrupt or I didn't get to take care of the patients how I like to. Too much of free spirit I suppose. I just don't like anyone owning me and dictating my life.

Good luck.

Thanks for sharing CB!

I agree that most patients LOVE OMT, it can become an addiction and if you learn it well, the line will form around the building. It usually takes about 2 weeks when I'm at a new site for patients to hear about it and I generally have to tell the scheduling girls not to put in more than 10 a day for me - I just get too tired.

Definitely true. There are a couple of really good OMM guys around here, and it's a good 2-3 month wait for an appointment.
 
Yes, and one thing I had to learn is being a doctor is not like any other job offer. You as the physician (and I am ONLY speaking for Family Practice in the current market) need to view yourself as the commodity. Whereas in the "real world" you have 100 people applying for any open retail job, as the physician you have 100 sites vying for you to work for them. Knowing that, all numbers are usually negotiable. This is what I consider to be minimum in a contract for a perm job:

Base salary: 200+ plus bonus production
Tail coverage included if leave early and I don't want to pay back any bonus given
Out clause: 30 days notice or leave sooner by mutual agreement
Student loan repayment included (and I don't mean just being at a rural site that qualifies for NHSC), I want it thrown in - real money
Health Insurance
Vacation time + CME
I am hoping there will be contract(s) like these when I become a FM physician because I am going to be 250k+ in the dump after med school...
 
I am hoping there will be contract(s) like these when I become a FM physician because I am going to be 250k+ in the dump after med school...
It's not a matter of hoping, it's a matter of understanding your own worth and getting the numbers on paper that you deserve and not settling for less because the job in front of you seems great when you are used to making 40K a year when in reality it is one of many and you are expected to counter offer.
 
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So the difference in pay between radiologist vs fm is only about 100k?
 
So the difference in pay between radiologist vs fm is only about 100k?
Radiologist Salary: Quick Summary


2012 Mean Salary$374,995 per year
$180.29 per hour
Top 10% Salary$490,149 per year
$235.65 per hour
Bottom 10% Salary$272,856 per year
$131.18 per hour
Number of Jobs, 2012691,400 (All Physicians)

I suppose so, not sure the relevance to your question? I think the bigger question is do you have what it takes to do radiology? I mean you need to know every inch of the body's anatomy, be able to recognize the pathology from the normal and normal variants. Your reports determine whether someone goes to surgery or not, etc. I could not do it and I wouldn't want that stress of needing to be that accurate in every dictation.
 
Radiologist Salary: Quick Summary


2012 Mean Salary$374,995 per year
$180.29 per hour
Top 10% Salary$490,149 per year
$235.65 per hour
Bottom 10% Salary$272,856 per year
$131.18 per hour
Number of Jobs, 2012691,400 (All Physicians)

I suppose so, not sure the relevance to your question? I think the bigger question is do you have what it takes to do radiology? I mean you need to know every inch of the body's anatomy, be able to recognize the pathology from the normal and normal variants. Your reports determine whether someone goes to surgery or not, etc. I could not do it and I wouldn't want that stress of needing to be that accurate in every dictation.
The radiology forum is utterly depressing to read. Their job market is horrendous, apparently, even for those completing 1-2 fellowships.
 
The radiology forum is utterly depressing to read. Their job market is horrendous, apparently, even for those completing 1-2 fellowships.

I really wonder about some of these forums. I know people in the fields of both path and rads, and I know current residents and fellows in rads. I asked them about the job market. They all said that they weren't worried about anything or didn't sense the saturation. I think this problem might be more regional. Its possible certain markets or certain job-types are very saturated, but people around me don't seem to be feeling it.
 
Well what I meant was that fm physician still make decent amount of money considering all these stories about how people want to go into ROADS because fm don't make enough...
 
Well what I meant was that fm physician still make decent amount of money considering all these stories about how people want to go into ROADS because fm don't make enough...
Trust me that FP makes plenty of money. I am pushing close to 300K this year (maybe more) because I'm not anticipating much vacation this year, trying to pay my debt down.
 
I really wonder about some of these forums. I know people in the fields of both path and rads, and I know current residents and fellows in rads. I asked them about the job market. They all said that they weren't worried about anything or didn't sense the saturation. I think this problem might be more regional. Its possible certain markets or certain job-types are very saturated, but people around me don't seem to be feeling it.

I actually have read those forms as well. I definitely agree that it is more of a regional thing. It seems most pathologists and radiologists on the forums aim for "more urban jobs and/or jobs in a certain area" vs. "rural jobs and/or jobs in every part of the US."
 
Trust me that FP makes plenty of money. I am pushing close to 300K this year (maybe more) because I'm not anticipating much vacation this year, trying to pay my debt down.
Now it's that because you do rural medicine? Can you make close to that amount working in the urban area?
 
I was in clinic with a family med D.O. and we saw a patient coming in for a routine visit, but she also had some neck pain. The doctor did a few different OMT techniques and the patient's pain was gone. She was so happy and actually hugged the doc lol.


Anyways, afterwards we were talking and he told me that the visit itself was billable at about $50, but the techniques he used would likely be billable at $90, landing the total for the visit at around $140. He almost tripled what he made with OMT!

So then I started wondering if D.O.'s make more than M.D.'s in fields where OMT is applicable, like family medicine? The averages I'm sure include both DO and MD salaries, but being that there are more MDs out there currently, I wonder if it the averages are lower than average DO salaries due to our potential to make more through OMT?


As an ED physician, I rarely, if ever, do OMT. However, there are ED physicians that do it and report small/modest gains in earning potential. The one personal example I know of is a physician that does OMT in an ED setting and reports around an extra 1500 per month from this. However, this is an n=1 scenario so take from it what you will.
 
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