osteopathic residencies

[moorecameron]

Hey, so I know this is a dumb question but I've been searching for a bit and can't find an answer, I would be thankful if some one could clarify the situation for me. If you complete an AOA residency, does that limit you to just Osteopathic hospitals afterwards or can you get jobs at any hospital? Thank you!

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[nzder]

Hey, so I know this is a dumb question but I've been searching for a bit and can't find an answer, I would be thankful if some one could clarify the situation for me. If you complete an AOA residency, does that limit you to just Osteopathic hospitals afterwards or can you get jobs at any hospital? Thank you!

Obviously that's not the case because there are AOA-trained DOs all over the place. There are not many osteopathic hospitals anymore anyway.

 

[DrMom]

Hey, so I know this is a dumb question but I've been searching for a bit and can't find an answer, I would be thankful if some one could clarify the situation for me. If you complete an AOA residency, does that limit you to just Osteopathic hospitals afterwards or can you get jobs at any hospital? Thank you!

DOs are fully licensed physicians and can work wherever they choose.

 

[moorecameron]

Thank you! Excuse my ignorance.

 

[SMC123]

If I were to complete my medical school training in the midwest, and wanted to live on the east coast afterwards such as NY, would it be harder for me as a DO physician? What about if I did internal med ?

 

[donkeykong1]

If I were to complete my medical school training in the midwest, and wanted to live on the east coast afterwards such as NY, would it be harder for me as a DO physician? What about if I did internal med ?

no. and no.

 

[Night Hawk]

If I were to complete my medical school training in the midwest, and wanted to live on the east coast afterwards such as NY, would it be harder for me as a DO physician? What about if I did internal med ?

You'd be fine. Look into the term "Hospital Privileges" as it may clarify your current understanding of the hospital-private practice physician relationship. Anyway, there are several ways a doctor may be associated with a particular hospital.

 

[SoulinNeed]

If I were to complete my medical school training in the midwest, and wanted to live on the east coast afterwards such as NY, would it be harder for me as a DO physician? What about if I did internal med ?

No, and no. Your job opportunities will most likely be the exact same as an ACGME residency, except you will probably have a harder time getting into academia or research, if that's what you want to do.

 

[Dharma]

If I were to complete my medical school training in the midwest, and wanted to live on the east coast afterwards such as NY, would it be harder for me as a DO physician? What about if I did internal med ?

A quick search you will yield a plethora of debates and opinions regarding AOA vs ACGME programs. Read up!

You will find plenty of DOs on the east coast especially in and around the greater NY metropolitan area. Purely anecdotal, but the ED I worked in was about 50/50 MD/DO. Most of the DO attendings graduated from an AOA EM residency (a few graduated from St. Barnabus in the Bronx). I ran into DOs in just about every department in the hospital (especially internal medicine and peds, no surprise there), however I do not remember any DO surgeons.

The general public in that area seems to have had more exposure to DOs over the years, so a good percentage of folks are aware of the profession. Most tend to go with whomever has a good reputation with his patients. As for myself, I didn't know my pediatrician was a DO until years after my last appointment with him; when I mentioned osteopathic medical school to my mom at some point, she said "oh your childhood doctor was a DO." I would've never known. Although he was a Kirksville grad from back in the late 60s, there wasn't a second of OMM in his office, as far as I remember are least. Anyways, tangent complete.

 

[donkeykong1]

No, and no. Your job opportunities will most likely be the exact same as an ACGME residency, except you will probably have a harder time getting into academia or research, if that's what you want to do.

You're forgetting that AOA programs also conduct extensive research and have academic posts available...

 

[SoulinNeed]

You're forgetting that AOA programs also conduct extensive research and have academic posts available...

That's true, but just not to the same extent as most MD programs. I'm not saying doing an AOA program will lock you out of academia, but in general, relative to MD programs, doing an AOA residency will place you at a disadvantage when it comes to academia or research. However, if you just want to practice in that specific fields, then your job opportunities will be fine.

 

[SMC123]

In other words, what you guys are saying is, I would be able to freely go to the east or west coast rather than settle in the midwest (MI), without any problems? Or would it be way more competitive since NYC is NYC, not a rural city or anything.

 

[Dharma]

In other words, what you guys are saying is, I would be able to freely go to the east or west coast rather than settle in the midwest (MI), without any problems? Or would it be way more competitive since NYC is NYC, not a rural city or anything.

You can go anywhere but of course a city like NYC will be more competitive being that is a saturated market. There will be challenges establishing yourself in such a market regardless of your training, not to mention physician incomes are often lower while COL is higher. There are always the suburbs though...

I cannot comment on the west coast, but again, I have heard that southern Cali is also a tough place to break into.

If you really want to end up living and working in a particular area why not try for a residency there? That aside, the consensus is that one should train in a program that is a good fit and will provide proper training to become the physician you wish to be, regardless of location. Plus, I don't think anyone would argue with the fact that better training and connections will only help your cause. Personally, I'm nowhere close to residency, but I know I'll be gunning for an ACGME residency to help keep more doors open along this long journey.

 

[SoulinNeed]

In other words, what you guys are saying is, I would be able to freely go to the east or west coast rather than settle in the midwest (MI), without any problems? Or would it be way more competitive since NYC is NYC, not a rural city or anything.

You'll be fine, but it's usually tougher in major markets simply because there are already a large number of docs there. However, as far as MD/DO discrepancies, there are few or none.

 

[MedPR]

You won't have a harder time as a DO, but if you or your school don't have connections with the east coast it will be hard for you to "break into" residencies there.

 

[Dharma]

You won't have a harder time as a DO, but if you or your school don't have connections with the east coast it will be hard for you to "break into" residencies there.

Away rotations.

And quite possibly previous grads who matched in years past (but I guess that's on the connection tip).

Plus there are your scores, your clinical grades, LORs, etc. Plenty of folks match in places geographically distant without strong school or personal ties.

 

[SMC123]

What if I did my residency in Michigan but then wanted to move to Connecticut? Would I have to do my residency again? Would I have a lower chance of being able to move?

 

[MedPR]

Away rotations.

And quite possibly previous grads who matched in years past (but I guess that's on the connection tip).

Plus there are your scores, your clinical grades, LORs, etc. Plenty of folks match in places geographically distant without strong school or personal ties.

Yes I agree, but I'm just saying what MS4s who successfully matched said about it. My girlfriend will be an MS3 next month and I've gone with her to quite a few interest group meetings hosted by matched MS4s.

Just like medical schools, a lot of residency programs have a geographic bias presumably because they want to train doctors who are going to stay and practice in the area. If you have no ties to or connections to that particular program or area, it is reasonable for people to think you have no reason to practice there. As far as scores, grades, and ECs go, chances are someone from the region is going to have a better application than you.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's certainly more difficult for someone who is from California and completed medical school in California to match in New York compared to someone from New York who attended a NY medical school.

 

[MedPR]

What if I did my residency in Michigan but then wanted to move to Connecticut? Would I have to do my residency again? Would I have a lower chance of being able to move?

You wouldn't have to do residency again. Compared to someone from Connecticut with the same stats as you, you would have a lower chance. Doesn't mean you can't do it though.

 

[Dharma]

Yes I agree, but I'm just saying what MS4s who successfully matched said about it. My girlfriend will be an MS3 next month and I've gone with her to quite a few interest group meetings hosted by matched MS4s.

Just like medical schools, a lot of residency programs have a geographic bias presumably because they want to train doctors who are going to stay and practice in the area. If you have no ties to or connections to that particular program or area, it is reasonable for people to think you have no reason to practice there. As far as scores, grades, and ECs go, chances are someone from the region is going to have a better application than you.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's certainly more difficult for someone who is from California and completed medical school in California to match in New York compared to someone from New York who attended a NY medical school.

Definitely agree with ya there. Ties to an area will help an applicant. I've heard a few PDs mention this as well.

 

[SMC123]

I don't know why I was with the stigma that DOs can practice everywhere, but their choices are limited compared to MDs on the east and west coast. The place where DOs would prosper is Michigan, (60% of DO residencies) and Oaklahoma.

 

[SMC123]

unless you guys have been referring to taking the usmle as a DO student and applying to MD residencies.. because I was always under the impression that DO residencies were limited mostly to Michigan and a couple other states.. and in order to do a residency there (DO residency that is) and then move to the east coast would be hard?

I am only planning on taking the COMLEX exam...

 

[Night Hawk]

unless you guys have been referring to taking the usmle as a DO student and applying to MD residencies.. because I was always under the impression that DO residencies were limited mostly to Michigan and a couple other states.. and in order to do a residency there (DO residency that is) and then move to the east coast would be hard?

I am only planning on taking the COMLEX exam...

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182001
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176274
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196158
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196159
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133222
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152954
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162638
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[Night Hawk]

138521
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[Night Hawk]

unless you guys have been referring to taking the usmle as a DO student and applying to MD residencies.. because I was always under the impression that DO residencies were limited mostly to Michigan and a couple other states.. and in order to do a residency there (DO residency that is) and then move to the east coast would be hard?

I am only planning on taking the COMLEX exam...

Below is the list of AOA approved IM residencies currently available in the United States. As you can see they aren't limited to Michigan.

Here's the website: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm

Search for yourself. Good Luck.

 

[SMC123]

They are not limited, but 60% of DO residencies are in the state of Michigan.

 

[Night Hawk]

They are not limited, but 60% of DO residencies are in the state of Michigan.

19 IM Resicencies in PA to 16 IM Residencies in MI, neither constitutes 60% of the list I provided below. If you want to be on the east coast, ball hard and apply to only hospitals on the east coast...

 

[Night Hawk]

They are not limited, but 60% of DO residencies are in the state of Michigan.

There are 878 AOA residency programs of which 193 are in the state of michigan, which is 20.73%. If you're speaking in terms of actual "spots" then I have no clue because the querey doesn't yield results in that manner but I tend to think that 60% much too high. You are right though, michigan does have the most programs, PA is 2nd with 102.

 

[DrMediterranean]

There are 878 AOA residency programs of which 193 are in the state of michigan, which is 20.73%. If you're speaking in terms of actual "spots" then I have no clue because the querey doesn't yield results in that manner but I tend to think that 60% much too high. You are right though, michigan does have the most programs, PA is 2nd with 102.

They are definitely not talking about just IM and are definitely talking about amount of spots since that would make more sense. 60% is accurate. I'm too lazy to look it up because I'm at work but don't be so surprised.

 

[MedPR]

unless you guys have been referring to taking the usmle as a DO student and applying to MD residencies.. because I was always under the impression that DO residencies were limited mostly to Michigan and a couple other states.. and in order to do a residency there (DO residency that is) and then move to the east coast would be hard?

I am only planning on taking the COMLEX exam...

I think it's in every DO's best interest to take both USMLE and COMLEX. You study the same material and in the event that you score poorly on the USMLE and well on the COMLEX, the USMLE score won't hurt you.

They are not limited, but 60% of DO residencies are in the state of Michigan.

Not sure where your data is from, but 60% is definitely too high.