otolaryngology programs

[ORL applicant]

Which otolaryngology programs are the most competitive? Some are obvious (e.g. Harvard) but others are not.

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[neutropeniaboy]

Originally posted by ORL applicant
Which otolaryngology programs are the most competitive? Some are obvious (e.g. Harvard) but others are not.

Why would you say Harvard's otolaryngology program is among the most competitive? Is that because of its name?

I would say it's among the most exclusive, but it's certainly not one of the top programs.

If you want excellent training: Iowa, Ohio State, UNC, Hopkins, Jefferson, Kansas, UVA.

Just because the school has a great name doesn't mean a specific program is competitive.

 

[DuneHog]

The most competative residencies seem to fall into two categories: big name vs. geographically desireable.

Big name probably includes: hopkins, iowa, michigan, UCLA among others as well as the big name in every specialty schools, like mass eye & ear (harvard), UCSF etc.

Geographically desireable basically means west cost, especially california.

 

[JScrusader]

For those in residencies, Did research help in getting there? What other factors were important?
thanks

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Could anyone with any knowledge whatsoever comment on the ENT programs at south florida, lexington KY, kansas city. I'm interested in areas of strength, call schedule, work load, resident attitudes and personalities. Thanks.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Originally posted by Ernest T. Bass
Could anyone with any knowledge whatsoever comment on the ENT programs at south florida, lexington KY, kansas city. I'm interested in areas of strength, call schedule, work load, resident attitudes and personalities. Thanks.

I can't comment on USF or UKY, but Kansas is a strong program...really strong. It doesn't have much of an academic name, but those guys cut, man. A lot of strong cutting.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Thanks.

Anybody else.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I'll add lsu shreveport. Does anyone have info on the program or the city?

 

[Hotsauce21]

ENT hopefuls-
Check out www.otomatch.com Lots of good inside info on the schools, many are listed there.

Also, to answer a question, research is definitely not necessary to get in, it certainly helps however.

What really helps are AOA (about half who matched were) and board scores (1/3 had scores higher than 250), but never sell yourself short, even if you have neither.

good luck

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Originally posted by jjackis


What really helps are AOA (about half who matched were) and board scores (1/3 had scores higher than 250), but never sell yourself short, even if you have neither.

Take otomatch.com with a grain of salt. I wouldn't consider that poll of board scores very active, especially if the average board score of someone accepted was 233 last year.

 

[DuneHog]

Just curious how other ENT applicants are doing with interviews. I sent my apps in over a month ago and only have 2 interviews (and 3 rejections). I was hoping to have a few more interviews by now...

 

[fongool]

so far:
4 interviews
3 rejections

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

6 interviews
2 rejections

I have the feeling that most of the interviews get offered early in the process. From talking to others that have matched in the past, it doesn't seem as if many more interviews should be expected.
Notice that all the confirmatory letters gave dates for informing you about interviews as being late oct to mid nov. All of my interviews were offered before the deadline. I believe that as the deadline approaches, the chance of rejection grows greater.
Do others think this is true?

 

[neutropeniaboy]

I wouldn't say that's true. Unless the program flat out rejects you, they will always keep your file active just incase there are some people who reject their interview offers.

Historically, programs know that if they interview X number of people, they'll fill their slots. So, if they don't get their fill, they'll go to the next in line.

Originally posted by Ernest T. Bass
6 interviews
2 rejections

I have the feeling that most of the interviews get offered early in the process. From talking to others that have matched in the past, it doesn't seem as if many more interviews should be expected.
Notice that all the confirmatory letters gave dates for informing you about interviews as being late oct to mid nov. All of my interviews were offered before the deadline. I believe that as the deadline approaches, the chance of rejection grows greater.
Do others think this is true?

 

[durphy]

So we know who is and isn't contacting applicants, can you tell us who you've heard from already? I've gotten interviews at Loyola, Penn, and Duke. One rejection from the Pitt+Peds program.

Thanks.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Originally posted by durphy
So we know who is and isn't contacting applicants, can you tell us who you've heard from already? I've gotten interviews at Loyola, Penn, and Duke. One rejection from the Pitt+Peds program.

Thanks.

Be very attentive when you attend that interview at Duke. My chair flat out refused to endorse my consideration of even applying there.

 

[JScrusader]

What are the interviews like? what types of information are they interested in?
Thanks

 

[Torus Tubarius]

Don't worry peeps, there are still lots of schools that haven't sent out interview invitations. I received a few invitations super early and then a few decline letters over the next couple of weeks. Just in the last couple of days, I have received a few more interviews from some of the top programs, so I wouldn't worry if you don't have that many offers yet. I'm sure there are lots of schools that just haven't met to discuss interviews yet. I doubt anything was done last week secondary to the Acadamy meeting in San Diego..... Good luck all.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

anybody got info on new mexico's program?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I'm also looking for info on LSU.

 

[DuneHog]

Whew! - I'm feeling a little more relieved now. I now have a total of 10 interviews, but I've only been able to schedule 9 because of date conflicts.

My first is coming up in a few days. Any words of advice for preparation? I was planning on reviewing my application, reading about the program and trying to come up with some specific questions for the faculty and residents.

For those of you that have interviewed for ENT:

- Are there any programs that are infamous for pimping you or making you tie knots etc?

- Did it seem like most faculty members just sat down and tried to have a conversations with you, or did it seem like you got a lot of standard interview questions, like: "What is your greatest strength/weakness", "Tell me about a time when you made a mistake, and how you handled it" etc.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

i also have my first interview this week and would like to know about the types of questions to expect.
so BUMP

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Congratulations.

My advice may be a little too late for you: schedule the place you want to go to LEAST as your first interview -- if possible. I scheduled mine with Temple. Marginal program. Great interviewing skills achieved.

Preparation is minimal: find out what attendings are doing research and in what. Find out if there are fellows at those programs and why. Investigate hospital ancillary services. Have a list of generic, but not insipid, questions memorized. Dress nicely. Make eye contact. Etcetera.

Most importantly: have a case ready to review with the attendings. I was asked abot 4 or 5 times to discuss with interviewers an interesting patient.

As far as pimping: Temple - and it wasn't even good pimping.

Programs requiring actual demonstration of skill: Boston Medical - they made us suture (on that cheesy Ethicon rubber band thingie) and use a laparascope with montior to pick up peanut shells and toys (not hard).

Unreasonable questions: Boston - a whole lot of ethical questions.

Here's my run down:

Temple - out of 7 interviews, 5 of them were positive. The chair took a great amount of time intimidating me, telling me I made the wrong diagnosis on my "interesting case" (despite the fact that I actually did have a correct diagnosis) and otherwise being unfriendly.

Maryland - very standard fare. Liked the chair and staff. Nice facilities. A no pressure interview day. Many "who was the most influential person..." type of questions.

MCV - very laid back. No pressure interviews. The chair was very welcoming and a pleasant man.

Northwestern - All I did was talk about digital cameras with the chair. Not a very stimulating interview. Everybody was friendly.

UIC - chair took a good while to greet us. Very bland day.

Chicago - great set of interviews. Definitely no pressure, and even some humor among the faculty, maybe that's because all of them said they were excited to finally interview me. Not my place, however.

Boston - great place, pressure definitely felt during interviews. Got rubbed the wrong way by one attending.

UVA - Great place, all interviews were great until the chair started bashing the chair of my medical school ENT department. Went downhill from there. Lots of "tell me a complement you've received lately" type of questions.

Penn - Stuck up. A lot of speaking about themselves, less questions about who I was.

Jefferson - chair was definitely intimidating. Basically the entire set of interviews were bad. They either decided to talk about themselves or spent most of the time reading my application because they didn't have time to read it previously.

UCSF - great day. No pressure at all. Everyone very friendly.

NYEEI - fine set of faculty. No pressure. Good discussions.

Iowa, Wash U, Case, Ohio, Emory, Colorado, Mass Eye, Columbia, UNC - never went, got too tired or had conflicts. Wish I could have fit UNC in.

Originally posted by DuneHog
Whew! - I'm feeling a little more relieved now. I now have a total of 10 interviews, but I've only been able to schedule 9 because of date conflicts.

My first is coming up in a few days. Any words of advice for preparation? I was planning on reviewing my application, reading about the program and trying to come up with some specific questions for the faculty and residents.

For those of you that have interviewed for ENT:

- Are there any programs that are infamous for pimping you or making you tie knots etc?

- Did it seem like most faculty members just sat down and tried to have a conversations with you, or did it seem like you got a lot of standard interview questions, like: "What is your greatest strength/weakness", "Tell me about a time when you made a mistake, and how you handled it" etc.

 

[Fah-Q]

So where did you match and why did you pick that program? Or didn't pick that program?

 

[invertpapilloma]

I can tell you so far where I've heard from:
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
USC
U Washington
Mayo
Wisconsin
Loyola
Northwestern
Ohio St
Cincinnati
Harvard
Columbia
Hopkins
UNC
Duke

am still waiting for a reply from:
Michigan
Iowa
UIC
UCI
Miami

Is this pretty much the same as everyone else?

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Originally posted by invertpapilloma
I can tell you so far where I've heard from:

[...]

am still waiting for a reply from:
Michigan
Iowa
UIC
UCI
Miami

Is this pretty much the same as everyone else?

I heard from UIC and Iowa pretty early. My colleague heard from Miami early as well.

But, that was last year 🙄

 

[invertpapilloma]

so the big question is.... WHERE are you a resident?
how is your intern year?
thanks in advance for answering...

 

[fife]

I'm sure I speak for all ORL applicants as I thank neutropeniaboy for his helpful post. Soon I will be interviewing at a few of the programs you listed, and it is nice to have a heads-up going into the interview. Hopefully one day I can also help in the same way.

One thing that would be nice to know about all ORL programs would be the overall personality of the program. For instance, which programs are known to be malignant (even those not in the top 10)? Which ones are known for a good lifestyle? Where are residents happy/miserable? These are things that you can't find on their websites. Unfortunately, some of us find the answers when it is too late and we have already blown a lot of money on an interview.

Thanks again, neutropeniaboy.

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

so if otomatch.com isn't a reliable source of information, what would you guys consider to be an average board score of a ENT resident at a strong program? what percent, AOA?
also, what other specialities were you considering, besides ENT?

although, i've been offered a lab position in our ENT department, i've decided to stay in my current lab (immunopathology/arthritis), since i'm interested in the research, and the lab publishes alot as well. do you think it'd be a good idea for me to get in the ENT lab anyways, if i feel that i may want to try matching in ENT?

also, what did you guys do for your first summer between M1 and M2? any NIH fellowships?

what was it about ENT that drew you to the field? obviously with having such strong numbers, you guys were eligible for many other very competitive specialities.



Thanks,

Nuclearrabbit

Northwestern (M1)

 

[Airborne]

All ENTs to be:

Just thought I'd bump this up, considering that you are all about ready to put in your match lists...

For those of us who are getting ready to begin the process in a couple of months, any insider information on which programs you thought stand out after your interviewing? Which were friendly? supportive of residents? placed well in fellowships? had not only high case #s, but also excellent diversity?

Let us know!

Airborne

 

[unregistered]

Ah... finally done with applying, interviewing, deliberating, and ranking. Two weeks until M-Day.

ok, to answer your questions...

the "sleeper" programs that really impressed me and "moved up" on my rank list are UNC, Ohio St, and Loyola.

the programs I thought would be great but fell short of my expectations are Northwestern, Stanford, USC, and UCSF. why, you ask? NW is still working out their difficulties with leadership change, they're losing their VA, their research is weak, and they don't have very many faculty members. Stanford has a lacking resident otology experience, is still looking for a new chair, and just lost their big H&N attending, who went to become chair at MCG. USC has an excellent operative experience, but their residents have to pay dearly for it with loads of scutwork. There is virtually no ancillary support at LA County Hospital. UCSF simply lacks resident operative experience, but is otherwise great.

U Washington's program in Seattle had the most laid back attendings and residents, in my opinion. Overall, a very strong training program, with all aspects of otolaryngology well represented. They have a strong chairman who is a resident advocate. there is an extra year for research, which is a plus or minus, depending on what you want.
Harvard's program is also very strong, and they have so many attendings that if you work with one you don't like, it's possible to avoid him/her for the remainder of your residency. excellent operative experience there, as well as opportunities for top-notch research.
Hopkins is of course excellent, but Cummings will be retired soon. how much impact this will have on their residency program is anyone's guess. I'd guess probably little.
U Michigan is possibly the most well-rounded programs of all of the ones out there. The residents love it there and are all a good group of people. the only possible downside to Michigan's program is its location. The same could be said for Iowa's program. Iowa's program holds such a presence in the University hospital, the attendings and residents are held in deservedly high esteem by the other departments there. The program at Wash U is also excellent, with great breadth and depth of surgical and research opportunities. Too bad it's in st louis.

For case loads, the highest numbers I saw were at Wisconsin, Ohio St, Univ Washington, and USC.
any of the abovementioned programs do extremely well in fellowship placement. This field is blessed with an abundance of excellent residency programs, and I can honestly say that I feel I would get great training at any of the places where I interviewed. Hope this helps all of you who are about to start the process in a few months... good luck!

 

[unregistered]

I'm not sure who the "real" owner of this username is... i just typed in the username for the password and it worked... so go figure. Anyway, this otolaryngology post is my first, and i'm not associated with all the previous posts by "unregistered"

 

[triathlete411]

When is match day for ENT and urology?

 

[fongool]

ENT - 1/17/03

 

[unregistered]

Urology match is 1/27/03

 

[jargon124]

Does urology have its own matching program or what? I know its not part of SFMatch, and NRMP match day is not till later...what's the deal?

 

[unregistered]

You got it my man/woman, AUA (American Urological Association)runs its own match.

 

[unregistered]

why are we discussing dick doctors in a Head & Neck forum?