Ottawa keeps ADHD reports secret

[ShrunkenHeads]

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http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1263560--ottawa-keeps-adhd-reports-secret

"Health Canada has detailed records of probes into ADHD drug safety, including fatalities, that it is keeping secret from the public.

Every six months to a year, drug companies submit summaries of side effects suspected to have been caused by their drugs worldwide, information Health Canada says it evaluates.

These summaries, called periodic safety update reports, are not available to the public."

I'd imagine this is similar to the US as well.

Comments, concerns? You guys are on the front line, so you'd have a better sense as to the frequency of side effects. That being said, it's concerning that reports about these are being withheld.

 

[billypilgrim37]

That seemed like a pretty absurd, sensationalistic article, as I'm pretty sure this information for every drug is submitted to government agencies. The implication is of course to scare people into thinking that someone is hiding something. Similar data does get dumped into the FDA. I'd rather the FDA have protected data that at least has a semblance of reliability. That's not quite "withholding" data.

 

[ShrunkenHeads]

The implication is of course to scare people into thinking that someone is hiding something.

You don't think information is ever purposely hidden from the public? Hell, I've seen cases of information being held/skewed even from the dispensers of these drugs.

Damn right someone is hiding something. There seems to be a prevailing culture of looking the other way/keeping hush hush/stifling dissent of practitioners and concerned public.

 

[billypilgrim37]

You don't think information is ever purposely hidden from the public?

For the same reason LOTS of information is held from the public. A combination of a) there is of course stuff you don't want the public to know (a--satisfying your conspiracy theory), and b) the public freaks about about stuff they shouldn't freak out about and is really bad at assessing risk.

Hell, I've seen cases of information being held/skewed even from the dispensers of these drugs.

This was shocking news, in the 1960s.

Damn right someone is hiding something. There seems to be a prevailing culture of looking the other way/keeping hush hush/stifling dissent of practitioners and concerned public.

I have some extra aluminum foil if you need it.

I'm not saying pharm companies aren't sleazy, I'm not saying they don't hide important things, and I'm not saying stimulants are tic-tacs. I'm saying the 90's called, and they want their freak out about stimulants back. Getting upset because pharm companies tell the government things but don't release every bit of their internal info to the public is silly and a little paranoid.

There is one basic formula that is applicable in child psychiatry:

Kids + drugs given to children for diseases that other people blame parents/society for = people freaking out about things they don't understand.

For every parent who comes in who wants their child on meds when the parent probably just needs parent manage training, there are 10 parents in the community (presenting to their pediatrician's office) that think that treating their severely impaired kid with medications is evil/a sign of failure. This sort of freakout reinforces it. Psychiatrists tend to see a very skewed portion of the population and don't understand community attitudes. Our department has quite a few mental health providers embedded in pediatrician's offices (which is much more representative of normal population attitudes), and most parents are still worried about vaccinating their kids (even though most have the sense to do it). Their attitudes about stimulants are even worse and, frankly, horribly inaccurate, most of the time.

So if you have evidence of wrongdoing or something out of the ordinary of standard business practices across all fields of medicine and even out of medicine, I could understand being worried. Otherwise, you're just polluting the environment with more barriers to getting sick kids help. We have gigantic public databases of stimulant trials and side effects. Whatever they're "hiding" at this point is either really unimportant or so incredibly horrendous that Nicolas Cage is already filming a movie about it, and they're just waiting for Michael Bay to finish Transformers 6 so he can direct the car chase sequences.

 

[ShrunkenHeads]

The "paranoia" will always exist, and rightfully so. Whether just or unjust is dependent on which side of the fence you're on. You being a "Fellow", just tells me about all the hoops you've jumped through, and have done so with the grace of a greyhound looking for a tasty doggie treat. Like a good boy, you won't bite the hand that feeds you.

"Polluting the environment."

Anyways, to people who aren't as far gone as this fine chap, please do your research and understand that maybe there is a lot of dissent and "paranoia" for a legitimate reason.

I don't quite fall into any one paradigm other than someone who was looking to go into psychiatry to help people, because I strongly feel that without good mental health, it's a tough place to live. I'd reckon to say it's even more important than physical health. We still see people with an upbeat attitude and positive outlook even if they're in wheelchairs or missing limbs. My heart is absolutely in mental health, but not where psychiatry is today, and it seems to be increasingly worse.

If you try to speak up and question anything, you have people like this trying to ridicule you to sway opinions.

I'd offer you some tinfoil my friend, but unfortunately you are obviously one long gone Fellow.

 

[Ceke2002]

I'm not surprised drug companies don't release every scrap of information ever collected to the public. The vast majority of lay people, of which I am one, simply don't know how to read scientific reviews and statistics properly. I've seen people in the homebirth movement take a report they've gotten hold of, and use it to prove that births in hospital are basically the equivalent of playing russian roulette. However, I've also seen an Obstetrician take that same report, break it down piece by piece, explain in plain terms exactly what the report actually did show - and surprise, surprise, it showed the complete opposite to what they lay people had thought. Simply because they didn't know how to read it properly. Now imagine releasing complex drug reports to the general public, you'd have a complete panic on your hands whilst untrained people read stuff into things that they really don't know anything about.

 

[Ceke2002]

The "paranoia" will always exist, and rightfully so. Whether just or unjust is dependent on which side of the fence you're on. You being a "Fellow", just tells me about all the hoops you've jumped through, and have done so with the grace of a greyhound looking for a tasty doggie treat. Like a good boy, you won't bite the hand that feeds you.

"Polluting the environment."

Anyways, to people who aren't as far gone as this fine chap, please do your research and understand that maybe there is a lot of dissent and "paranoia" for a legitimate reason.

I don't quite fall into any one paradigm other than someone who was looking to go into psychiatry to help people, because I strongly feel that without good mental health, it's a tough place to live. I'd reckon to say it's even more important than physical health. We still see people with an upbeat attitude and positive outlook even if they're in wheelchairs or missing limbs. My heart is absolutely in mental health, but not where psychiatry is today, and it seems to be increasingly worse.

If you try to speak up and question anything, you have people like this trying to ridicule you to sway opinions.

I'd offer you some tinfoil my friend, but unfortunately you are obviously one long gone Fellow.

I actually thought Billypilgrim gave you a very fair, balanced, and most of all, polite response. Unlike the response you've given here.

As someone who sits on the opposite side of the table, so to speak, no I don't think Psychiatrists, Psychiatry in general, or Psychiatric medications are all inviolate gods who should never be questioned. I just don't believe that banging the drum of public panic, especially when said public, as I mentioned before, often doesn't have the first clue about correctly reading certain literature, does anyone, any good in the long run.

And no, I don't think psych meds are all perfectly harmless little lollies that should be added to the water supply to make the whole world a happy place. I've had some extremely bad reactions to a lot of meds I've been tried on over the years, way beyond the usual expected side effects. I am, obviously, a rare case. But if you took my case & a handful of other rare cases, and published a report about us, you could probably make Endep, Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, & Tofranil all look like the devil's own poison and have the average person in the street reeling in horror and calling for this stuff to be banned. And they'd be wrong. Same as the average person in the street is wrong about the vast majority of cases where stimulants are prescribed and used correctly, because all of the 'conspiracy theory' stuff I've read on the subject, always seems to concentrate on the minority of extreme, rare cases where things may have gone horribly wrong. Who's skewing the data in that case?

 

[ShrunkenHeads]

I actually thought Billypilgrim gave you a very fair, balanced, and most of all, polite response. Unlike the response you've given here.

Incorrect. His last post was dripping with ridicule, which is fine. He took it on himself to go there. I see nothing wrong with my reply considering his post, but me saying anything more is just semantics.

(I skimmed over the rest of your reply and you might've had some good points but I'm about to hit the sack. I will check again tomorrow. Thanks for posting though. 🙂 )

 

[ShrunkenHeads]

http://www.thestar.com/news/investi...ealth-canada-tight-lipped-on-champix-suicides

"She was prescribed Champix, a popular smoking-cessation drug, in June 2009.

Weeks later, when she returned home to Victoria, B.C., Heidi's mother noticed her daughter's trademark smile had disfigured itself into a scowl. She was irritable, short-tempered.

The night Pat Clow last saw her daughter alive, she was smiling again, off to a friend's house for a Saturday night of poker and drinking. The date was Oct. 3, 2009.

Later that evening, alone in her apartment, Heidi ground up Aspirin and sinus medication in a Magic Bullet, mixed them into a protein shake, and killed herself."

I know there are *some* good willed psychiatrists out there who would like to be kept up-to-date on some things. For me personally, I'm actually surprised that these are coming up in mainstream media. I'm sure there are some flaws to pick out with the article itself. Nevertheless this should all be up for debate.

 

[digitlnoize]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1263560--ottawa-keeps-adhd-reports-secret

"Health Canada has detailed records of probes into ADHD drug safety, including fatalities, that it is keeping secret from the public.

Every six months to a year, drug companies submit summaries of side effects suspected to have been caused by their drugs worldwide, information Health Canada says it evaluates.

These summaries, called periodic safety update reports, are not available to the public."

I'd imagine this is similar to the US as well.

Comments, concerns? You guys are on the front line, so you'd have a better sense as to the frequency of side effects. That being said, it's concerning that reports about these are being withheld.

ADHD drugs are very widely used, and very widely abused. If they were THAT dangerous, we'd see far more problems with them than we do. In fact, you could make a very good case for their safety (when used correctly) because so many people (for example college students) malinger in an attempt to get them. They wouldn't want them if all their friends were having horrible side effects and/or death.

If you want a poster child for a truly dangerous drug, try alcohol or Tylenol. Both are MUCH MUCH MUCH more dangerous than pretty much anything we prescribe.

 

[Ceke2002]

http://www.thestar.com/news/investi...ealth-canada-tight-lipped-on-champix-suicides

"She was prescribed Champix, a popular smoking-cessation drug, in June 2009.

Weeks later, when she returned home to Victoria, B.C., Heidi’s mother noticed her daughter’s trademark smile had disfigured itself into a scowl. She was irritable, short-tempered.

The night Pat Clow last saw her daughter alive, she was smiling again, off to a friend’s house for a Saturday night of poker and drinking. The date was Oct. 3, 2009.

Later that evening, alone in her apartment, Heidi ground up Aspirin and sinus medication in a Magic Bullet, mixed them into a protein shake, and killed herself."

I know there are *some* good willed psychiatrists out there who would like to be kept up-to-date on some things. For me personally, I'm actually surprised that these are coming up in mainstream media. I'm sure there are some flaws to pick out with the article itself. Nevertheless this should all be up for debate.

I made a very serious (serious enough that I am lucky to be alive today) suicide attempt after being prescribed Endep (Amitriptyline) & developing a paradoxical reaction to it, Zoloft and Prozac both sent me into a screaming (literally) state of mania, Effexor had me being rushed off to the Emergency Department with Serotonin Syndrome, and Tofranil slurred my speech & temporarily paraylsed me down one side. I'm pretty sure most of the qualified Psychiatrists on here would agree most of those reactions are not only extreme, they are very rare. I know far more people who have been helped by these medications (including a close friend who becomes close to catatonically depressed without anti-depressant medication) than have been harmed by them.

Why does the mainstream media report news like this, and not the thousands upon thousands of smoking or alcohol related deaths that happen each year? Simply because those happen so often they're no longer news. When things like what happened to that poor girl and her family occur due to Psych meds, it's a rare enough event that it is still news worthy. I'll worry when the incident of harm from psych meds becomes so widespread and great, that the news media stops reporting on it.

 

[splik]

If you want a poster child for a truly dangerous drug, try alcohol or Tylenol. Both are MUCH MUCH MUCH more dangerous than pretty much anything we prescribe.

Are you kidding! tylenol is one of the safest drugs there is. It is probably one of the only drugs that doesn't have any side effects. of course it is hepatotoxic in overdose, but it is perfectly safe at a therapeutic dose. I am always surprised at the homeopathic doses people seem to get at my current hospital. psychiatric drugs are hugely dangerous compared to tylenol. I have never heard of anyone having serious withdrawal symptoms from tylenol (cf benzos, SSRIs), anyone feeling suicidal on tylenol, anyone developing neuroleptic malignant syndrome, dystonia, TD, parkinsonism, hyperammonenia, neurtoxicity, dementia, psychosis, suicidality, SIADH, bleeding, renal failure, aplastic anemia, stevens johnson syndrome etc from tylenol

 

[digitlnoize]

Are you kidding! tylenol is one of the safest drugs there is. It is probably one of the only drugs that doesn't have any side effects. of course it is hepatotoxic in overdose, but it is perfectly safe at a therapeutic dose. I am always surprised at the homeopathic doses people seem to get at my current hospital. psychiatric drugs are hugely dangerous compared to tylenol. I have never heard of anyone having serious withdrawal symptoms from tylenol (cf benzos, SSRIs), anyone feeling suicidal on tylenol, anyone developing neuroleptic malignant syndrome, dystonia, TD, parkinsonism, hyperammonenia, neurtoxicity, dementia, psychosis, suicidality, SIADH, bleeding, renal failure, aplastic anemia, stevens johnson syndrome etc from tylenol

No, but the overdoses occur, at least at my hospital, FAR FAR FAR more often than any of that other stuff. I see a serious Tylenol OD almost weekly...haven't really been counting, but it's VERY common. Steven's Johnson, not so much.