Over 30 Student Thread

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Psychadelic2012

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I just thought I would start a thread for those of us who are older and more settled in our ways, and therefore experience a totally different world in academia as a result.

I'm currently getting my master's, but I'm doctoral-bound, and so far I feel very disadvantaged--from having to make a living while going to school, to being surrounded by classmates who I can't relate to, to being so disconnected from academia that it is hard to even excel at the GRE or get the (unpaid) research experience needed to even apply to PhD programs. It's a totally different ball game when you're a working adult!

(And I'm sorry for the 40+ and 50+ students who feel abandoned by this thread...but maybe we still have some things in common!)

What are some things you've noticed? What are some things you struggle with?

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I've noticed that school is a lot easier when you have a partner that knows how to support you. I've been married for 8 years and she knows exactly how to help me with stress and maintaining my focus. When I hear the younger students talk about being single and lonely, I'm reminded how good I have it.

I wouldn't say that the younger people in my doc program are unrelatable. None of them go out and party or act immature. They take school very seriously and we all seem to have similar goals.

I struggle with watching my friends outside of school raise their families. It's not something that's possible right now so being 30+ without children can sometimes feel like you are behind or missing out on something.
 
I found being a bit older helped me with management outside of classes, etc. I think on practica sites it was helpful to have more "real world" experience when navigating site politics.
 
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Well, to be honest, I just turned 30 and about about to finish this year, but we are also struggling with being childless at the moment, as well as not exactly financially stable yet.

Our parents seem pretty good about understanding right now, but my wife and I both have a hard time around my brothers family or when around some of my old high school friends who all had children long ago.
Yes, sometimes, we feel like we are behind. :(
 
I didn't even think about the delayed parenting aspect. I am childfree by choice, so it was never even an issue for me. But, point taken.
 
I didn't even think about the delayed parenting aspect. I am childfree by choice, so it was never even an issue for me. But, point taken.

This seems to be a not uncommon occurance in psych. Just my observation, not a study. Its a pretty unimaginable concept where I was raised. Although, my limited child and adolscent experience has certainly make me think twice. ;) Well, not really, but parenthood does seem daunting. I mean, I suprised its even legal! Really? You are gonna let me take this human being home with me...forever! Really? You know I've never done this before and dont know what I'm doing, right?:laugh:
 
This seems to be a not uncommon occurance in psych. Just my observation, not a study. Its a pretty unimaginable concept where I was raised. Although, my limited child and adolscent experience has certainly make me think twice. ;) Well, not really, but parenthood does seem daunting. I mean, I suprised its even legal! Really? You are gonna let me take this human being home with me...forever! Really? You know I've never done this before and dont know what I'm doing, right?:laugh:

Sometimes it does seem odd that there isn't at least like a mandatory class or something. I mean you can't adopt a pet without multiple references and proof of employment. But a human being? Sure anyone can have as many of those as they want.

I'm undecided about the whole kids thing myself, and I certainly wouldn't want them before I graduate. Although as a school psych person people usually assume that I must want them.

Edit: Well I suppose a flaw in my pet/person anology is that humans are a lot harder to adopt then animals, it's just having one on your own that's completely unregulated.
 
This seems to be a not uncommon occurance in psych. Just my observation, not a study.

Yeah, probably because we learn how easy it is to mess it up, and how bad it can get when we do. It's an argument for not doing it altogether, but it's also an explanation for why psychologists (or mental health pros in general) can be so bad at it--trying too hard and all! I just read an article (also not a study) about how there is no reasonable explanation for why children from happy childhoods can end up depressed (i.e., "I should be happy, my life is perfect, why aren't I happy??"), when they do. It's like it doesn't even matter sometimes. You can't win, really.
 
Great question. I'm in my 5th year of a PhD program, and much closer to 40 than 30 at this point. Overall, I found being a mid-30s grad student was advantageous, especially in clinical situations. I was still young enough to relate with adolescents (although trying to keep up with pop culture is getting more challenging :) ), and older adults didn't ask me about my age, like some of my 23-25 year old friends/colleagues. I did a lot of soul searching, partying, and trying on different identities (and worked a high energy, high tech corporate job for 6+ years) in my 20s, so for me there is a sense that I got some of that stuff out of my system. That is, once I started the PhD path, I haven't felt nearly as distracted by the big life questions that some of my younger friends/cohort mates have. "Am I on the right path? Maybe I should drop out and move to Thailand? Should I switch to law school or go be a ski bum?" etc etc. All good questions, but for me, since I went through a lot of that already, it's probably been easier for me to just focus on the crazy work of grad school. And not to sound like an old curmudgeon, but I think these have all added to my "life experience", which has probably helped me connect with clients/patients and build therapeutic alliance.

Definitely agreed that it is a lot easier with a supportive partner. I got married at the end of my 1st year of grad school, and my wife and I had a baby the end of my 2nd year and 4th years of grad school, and the family support is amazing. (It's also exhausting to chase around a toddler and newborn. And no, they don't give you a how-to manual for the kiddos when you come home with the newborn! They really should... ).

I'm applying for internships, and one factor that's a bit more difficult because of being in a committed relationship is that I can't just pick any old city to move to for internship year. I need to factor in my partner's ease of getting a job, or simply where she is willing to live. And we have the kiddos to consider. It just gets more complicated. Just last night we were talking about internship cities, and I'm probably going to have to rule out a site because it's just not a good location for my partner, and it was hard for me to let go of that. There are times I pine for the simplicity of being young and single.

Another factor is pay. I got used to making a certain salary before I began the doctorate path, so I've had to scale back my expenses and expectations about buying things. I'm in a funded graduate program, so I'm not accruing debt, but sometimes it's hard hearing about 30 or 40-something friends who are hitting midpoints in their careers and making significant amounts of money.

Good luck with your programs. This might sound cliche, but if you really love the work (or at least the place the grad work will eventually get you) then it's definitely worth it.
 
Well, to be honest, I just turned 30 and about about to finish this year, but we are also struggling with being childless at the moment, as well as not exactly financially stable yet.

Our parents seem pretty good about understanding right now, but my wife and I both have a hard time around my brothers family or when around some of my old high school friends who all had children long ago.
Yes, sometimes, we feel like we are behind. :(

Yes, delaying adulthood and parenting is a HUGE issue for most graduate students, esp. older ones. My psychology friends are either childless or have kids really late (first kid at 35-37). I think financial stability is a big problem. get ready to feel very jealous of your friends who have already bought houses and go on vacations to Italy and Hawaii, and work regular hours!

Having a spouse is enormously helpful for both support and financial assistance in grad school. I feel more focused b/c i'm married and have life experience. I think that is a nice advantage. My single friends in grad school were stressed with dating and felt like it was really hard to balance with school work. Not worrying about dating with all your other responsilbilites is a huge relief.
 
I'm in my early 40s in a doc program (not psych, but thinking of switching to psych). Hardest age-related thing is caregiving responsibilities. In my program at least, it seems like the few folks with kids get a little more sympathy than those with eldercare issues. Assumption seems to be that somebody else should be taking care of that. Of course, this is also what my absentee brothers have decided.
 
I just thought I would start a thread for those of us who are older and more settled in our ways, and therefore experience a totally different world in academia as a result.

I'm currently getting my master's, but I'm doctoral-bound, and so far I feel very disadvantaged--from having to make a living while going to school, to being surrounded by classmates who I can't relate to, to being so disconnected from academia that it is hard to even excel at the GRE or get the (unpaid) research experience needed to even apply to PhD programs. It's a totally different ball game when you're a working adult!

(And I'm sorry for the 40+ and 50+ students who feel abandoned by this thread...but maybe we still have some things in common!)

What are some things you've noticed? What are some things you struggle with?

I'm over 35 and under 40. I have three kids. I'm finding I get along fairly well with my classmates. I can't socialize outside of school since the commute is too far (most of my classmates are an hour away!). I prioritize my life around my family and my PhD program; so far so good. If I have to make a choice, the schoolwork comes first and my family is supportive of that. Fortunately I have not had to choose between the two very often yet.
 
If I have to make a choice, the schoolwork comes first and my family is supportive of that. Fortunately I have not had to choose between the two very often yet.

Hi Jegg,

Just curious...are you a man or woman? Not intending to start a gender war, this has been a lifelong familial debate of mine. I'm convinced that men have it easier in this situation.

I'm the mom of 4. When I've had to choose, schoolwork becomes late-night/early-morning/all-nighters for me...unless, of course, one of my kids is up with the flu or bad dreams (which has been few & far between - thank goodness).

Regardless, cheers to our families that support us and good luck to each one of us seeking these rewarding careers. :luck:
 
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Another factor is pay. I got used to making a certain salary before I began the doctorate path, so I've had to scale back my expenses and expectations about buying things. I'm in a funded graduate program, so I'm not accruing debt, but sometimes it's hard hearing about 30 or 40-something friends who are hitting midpoints in their careers and making significant amounts of money.
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glad to hear you don't regret is overall oceansize. its nice to know the cliche has a root in reality

been mostly lurking on this thread cause i'm not a student at yet. planning on a masters first, which means starting a phd about 33-34. Also switching careers from a lucrative career path and the questions above have definitely been on my mind. Even where I stand right now, I see how friends who opted for lower paying save the world types jobs sometimes struggle with group activities that did not seem to expensive to the rest of us (at least not until i for real decided to make this switch and started saving up). I don't have any expensive tastes (besides travel) so I imagine the poverty hits home in comparison more than as day to day thing.
 
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Hi Jegg,

Just curious...are you a man or woman? Not intending to start a gender war, this has been a lifelong familial debate of mine. I'm convinced that men have it easier in this situation.

I'm the mom of 4. When I've had to choose, schoolwork becomes late-night/early-morning/all-nighters for me...unless, of course, one of my kids is up with the flu or bad dreams (which has been few & far between - thank goodness).

Regardless, cheers to our families that support us and good luck to each one of us seeking these rewarding careers. :luck:

I'm a male. And, I don't doubt that men generally have it easier in this type of situation for a number of reasons (biopsychosocial).
 
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I'm a male. And, I don't doubt that men generally have it easier in this type of situation for a number of reasons (biopsychosocial).

Ah-ha! I knew it! Yes. I suppose you're right. I'm a gatherer...and my husband is the hunter.

I've resigned myself to the fact that I wouldn't want the primary caregiver (of my kids) to be anyone but me...so it's all good. I'm there for the babinos whenever they need me. As far as my dissertation...good thing it's not a living, breathing entity...otherwise it would be screaming a fit right now! :bang:

Thanks for the reply. I'm off to gather some more articles now...
 
Speaking as an older guy in a program that is about 90% female (many of whom are very young)I find it can make it harder to network and form close working relationships with my classmates. On the plus side everyone knows who I am, often even if I've never met or talked to them. But a lot of networking goes on during informal social events/gatherings and it's easy to get left out of those when it's a girl's night out, or even when the group of people you are talking to all turn and walk as a unit into the women's rest room.

Anyway I still manage to network and work with my colleagues, but I definitely feel that both the age and gender difference make things a bit harder there. On the plus side being older can be helpfull when your dealing with professors and practicum supervisors who are also older.
 
Just curious...are you a man or woman? Not intending to start a gender war, this has been a lifelong familial debate of mine. I'm convinced that men have it easier in this situation.

I think this is especially true for eldercare. I'd like to go for the PsyD, but am worried that if my aging parent's health takes a rapid nosedive before I finish, I'm going to be screwed, so I may just have to settle for doing the MFT nights. My brothers are disengaged, so it all falls to me.
 
Think that may be program dependent upon sympathy for folks with kids. The Program here has relatively little for those with kids around here. The attitude seems to be "that was your choice; suck it up and deal with it." I think some of the profs are a bit more lenient (again, depends upon the professor, and those are usually ones with kids themselves or the child track folks), but usually folks are getting crap from students. Until internship time, then the profs are harping on them as well because these are the students who tend to restrict their sites geographically due to their families helping them out with childcare, etc. We're a real supportive bunch. :rolleyes:

In the meantime, I find overall that whether it's childcare, eldercare, or some other issue, (at least here) I struggle with The Program not recognizing (or not caring) that there are other responsibilities one may face in addition to one's doctoral program. Oh, my. You have a life . . . with serious medical issues? With a child who lives out of state? With a multitude of legal issues due to divorce, custody, etc.? With family members needing support from you?

Meh! We don't really care, unless it's to spread that information across the entire department. If you prefer to remain a private person who keeps your private life just that, unless it's absolutely necessary to divulge pertinent information to one's adviser/department so they know what's going on, then you must be a slacker and/or you must have problems connecting with other people because you don't go out partying and facebooking with the other gals every other night. I'm sorry I don't carry to go out carousing with folks who I don't care for and who obviously don't care for me because of significant differences ... tried to play that game ... it was pointless & a waste of my time.
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But, hey, our lab is "the best dressed and best looking lab" (per our adviser) . . . I think I may be bringing that image down because I have neither the time, inclination, or money (anymore) to be going out and spending sh*tloads of money on my wardrobe & hair (adviser actually comments on these things on an almost weekly basis) so that I can flirt with a guy old enough to be my grandfather and then some. :uhno:

So "for those of us who are older and more settled in our ways" = stubborn wench who refuses to budge anymore because I'm tired of conceding that everything has always been and will always be my fault in order not to ruffle feathers around the department.


Oh, and I'm over 30, but I'm not quite in my 40's, gosh darnit all! :smuggrin:

To show the brilliance/thoughtfulness of my cohort members.... Our stats (range, median, average, etc.) were added onto the website after we started our first year some years ago. Stats were broken down for entering class (our cohort at that time), and then for the overall clinical department. They included information regarding age. Overall stats (for the dept) for age showed that the upper age was somewhere in the mid/upper-40's. Apparently folks in my cohort reviewed this information and went around the entire year thinking that I was in my 40's. My birthday was later in the year, and I was discussing my plans (or lack thereof) with someone. One of my cohort members came by and asked how old I was going to be: 46/47? I chuckled and thought they were joking... apparently they were serious. :laugh: Now, if they had only looked a bit closer, they could have figured this out exactly, as the stats for our cohort were there as well. Silly tw*ts.

Afterward, I wasn't sure what to think, as I've had problems in the past whenever I went to drop off/pick up my son at his school. Teachers would instruct me to get to class, ask for my hall pass, etc. Parents would scowl at me for "not being old enough" to have a child his age. So, first I look too young, but then I'm in my 40's. :confused:

Enough of my rambling, I'm obviously all over the place... and ignoring my oh, so important dissertating. :whistle:
 
Think that may be program dependent upon sympathy for folks with kids. The Program here has relatively little for those with kids around here. The attitude seems to be "that was your choice; suck it up and deal with it." I think some of the profs are a bit more lenient (again, depends upon the professor, and those are usually ones with kids themselves or the child track folks), but usually folks are getting crap from students. Until internship time, then the profs are harping on them as well because these are the students who tend to restrict their sites geographically due to their families helping them out with childcare, etc. We're a real supportive bunch. :rolleyes:

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion, but most programs are limited in how much they can handle, given the increased constraints, lesser funding, etc. that has happened in most programs. There are 20 people willing to take that spot, so the program doesn't have as much incentive to be overly flexible.

On the one hand, life happens and people need to have some level of understanding. On the other hand, everyone makes sacrafices, and one person's needs shouldn't be consider more important that someone else's. I had a professor who didn't care why you missed because we were (allegedly) all adults, but it could and would impact your training and grade.
 
But, hey, our lab is "the best dressed and best looking lab" (per our adviser) . . . I think I may be bringing that image down because I have neither the time, inclination, or money (anymore) to be going out and spending sh*tloads of money on my wardrobe & hair (adviser actually comments on these things on an almost weekly basis) so that I can flirt with a guy old enough to be my grandfather and then some. :uhno:

Oof. That sucks. Creepy old coot.
 
I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion, but most programs are limited in how much they can handle, given the increased constraints, lesser funding, etc. that has happened in most programs. There are 20 people willing to take that spot, so the program doesn't have as much incentive to be overly flexible.

On the one hand, life happens and people need to have some level of understanding. On the other hand, everyone makes sacrafices, and one person's needs shouldn't be consider more important that someone else's. I had a professor who didn't care why you missed because we were (allegedly) all adults, but it could and would impact your training and grade.

We have a mix of folks in our program w/ children. Most are individuals who opted (yes, they decided, not oops, I was surprised) to have children AFTER they started the program. Some are folks who entered the program w/ children, and then there are those w/ children who decided what the heck, I'll have a few more (wherever does it end?!).

I certainly agree that programs are not required to be flexible in all of these situations, but if one is going to make concessions or give "privileges" to folks for whatever the reason, then they need to do across the board rather than have it be up to adviser, adviser mood, or well, you really don't need time off to deal with that issue because no one else does (b/c everyone else in the program is a 'traditional' student and doesn't deal with that issue).

What grows frustrating for me is that due to circumstances beyond my control I only get to see my child a couple of times per year. I ask off for a handful of days or a week in the middle of the summer for the direct purpose of going to see my child as I have not seen him in MONTHS. "Yes, that sounds like a good idea. You should go see him. But not right now. Right now we are too busy." (Doing absolutely nothing, and working on things that I can do from home BTW.) M'kay, whatever, I'll check again in a few weeks, I received the same response week after week. In the meantime, I was working considerably more than I was required to, but hey, we're going to disregard that for the time being.... Enter the other person in the lab, "So what should I do this summer because I have like no idea?" "Hmmm, lemme, think about it. I know, you should go to Mexico, relax, read a book, and if you have time, think about some research."

I **** you not. Person takes off for the entire summer to never be seen again, and I'm practically begging for a week and finally a frakkin' weekend off to be told, no, no, and no again. In the meantime, there are folks with children who take off our "meeting" days during the week because it would be "difficult" for them to make alternate arrangements with day/childcare. I find some of the concessions that our program does make for these students laughable as I worked and took care of my child through my master's degree (different program), and I certainly was not given any additional time off. I was expected to do everything and be at all required classes, events, & meetings the same as everyone else. Here, it seems as if "I'm sorry, I have a kid, so I'm going to take off b/c I just really don't want to go to your boring meeting" suffices as an excuse."

I do not take time off or go places during the year. Others do. I sit here and work all frakkin year. Instead, I am constantly harped on ...

We had a guy in our program who had several friends & family die within the course of one year. He unfortunately was attending a lot of funerals, which led him to missing a handful of meetings (on one day each week). Then, his grandmother (who had lived with & cared for him since he was a young child) died. He was informed that he did not have 'permission' to go to her funeral b/c he had already been to too many funerals that year. Er, I'm sorry that death inconveniences you. It was one of the final nails in his own coffin so to speak with our program.

So, death's out. Getting sick is out. Caring for family is out. Going to court for divorce is out. Personal issues of any kind are out. Sorry, not allowed. But, if you are getting married and/or planning a baby, get permission, and if you flirt with your adviser whilst doing it, then you can skip all the meetings & classes you want.... :idea:

Honestly, I don't give a damn why folks miss as long as they would be consistent with their "rules" across the board. I agree with you, T4C, that if you miss time, particularly during the semester, or at certain times of year, then you're likely going to miss something vital to your training. I would expect it. However, if I can take time off and it does not impact my grade/training, then WTF are you still hounding me? If others are being given time off and their training/exposure is obviously subpar, then why are they not the ones being addressed? Makes not a shred of sense to me.
 
Honestly, I don't give a damn why folks miss as long as they would be consistent with their "rules" across the board. I agree with you, T4C, that if you miss time, particularly during the semester, or at certain times of year, then you're likely going to miss something vital to your training. I would expect it. However, if I can take time off and it does not impact my grade/training, then WTF are you still hounding me? If others are being given time off and their training/exposure is obviously subpar, then why are they not the ones being addressed? Makes not a shred of sense to me.

I am in full agreement about doing this "across the board", as I've also seen this go the other way. I have seen some people with families get considerations that were not also availalble to students who didn't have families but had another (what I consider...valid) reason they needed to take time off, etc. Each mentor can be different, though I'd take exception if it is fine for one student of the mentor and not another.
 
What grows frustrating for me is that due to circumstances beyond my control I only get to see my child a couple of times per year. I ask off for a handful of days or a week in the middle of the summer for the direct purpose of going to see my child as I have not seen him in MONTHS. "Yes, that sounds like a good idea. You should go see him. But not right now. Right now we are too busy." (Doing absolutely nothing, and working on things that I can do from home BTW.) M'kay, whatever, I'll check again in a few weeks, I received the same response week after week. In the meantime, I was working considerably more than I was required to, but hey, we're going to disregard that for the time being.... Enter the other person in the lab, "So what should I do this summer because I have like no idea?" "Hmmm, lemme, think about it. I know, you should go to Mexico, relax, read a book, and if you have time, think about some research."

I **** you not. Person takes off for the entire summer to never be seen again, and I'm practically begging for a week and finally a frakkin' weekend off to be told, no, no, and no again. In the meantime, there are folks with children who take off our "meeting" days during the week because it would be "difficult" for them to make alternate arrangements with day/childcare. I find some of the concessions that our program does make for these students laughable as I worked and took care of my child through my master's degree (different program), and I certainly was not given any additional time off. I was expected to do everything and be at all required classes, events, & meetings the same as everyone else. Here, it seems as if "I'm sorry, I have a kid, so I'm going to take off b/c I just really don't want to go to your boring meeting" suffices as an excuse."

I do not take time off or go places during the year. Others do. I sit here and work all frakkin year. Instead, I am constantly harped on ...

We had a guy in our program who had several friends & family die within the course of one year. He unfortunately was attending a lot of funerals, which led him to missing a handful of meetings (on one day each week). Then, his grandmother (who had lived with & cared for him since he was a young child) died. He was informed that he did not have 'permission' to go to her funeral b/c he had already been to too many funerals that year. Er, I'm sorry that death inconveniences you. It was one of the final nails in his own coffin so to speak with our program.

So, death's out. Getting sick is out. Caring for family is out. Going to court for divorce is out. Personal issues of any kind are out. Sorry, not allowed. But, if you are getting married and/or planning a baby, get permission, and if you flirt with your adviser whilst doing it, then you can skip all the meetings & classes you want.... :idea:

paramour, what you're describing above is ****ing inhuman. you've got an iron will--i would never make it in your situation. these people are *******s and i hope that you can leave them all behind in the near future.

by the way, it's similar in my program--i make my long (hours, not minutes) commute to campus for the "mandatory" TA meeting to find that only half the TAs (the rest of whom live 10-15 minutes away from campus) bothered to show up. ****ers.

edit: I forgot, for some reason we can't swear on sdn. ridiculous.
 
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