Over-Represented Minorities

[SamaraMorgan]

I'm sure this will turn into a flame war, but hopefully I will get some insightful responses.

Take an example of a good medical school...let's just say...Northwestern. Look at the percentages for the race representation:

http://www.medschool.northwestern.edu/admissions/md/students/class-profile.html

43.7% white students. Let's compare this to the rest of the United States:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

of which the percentages couldn't have changed that much in the past 7 years. 75.1% white. This probably isn't the best source but it's in the ballpark.

Things like this make me think that minorities are being over-represented in medical schools. I am not racist - Really, I'm not. But this does seem a bit off... I don't think the white kids are any dumber. So why do minorities say white people are given more privileges?

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[BigRedPremed]

I'm pretty sure this is going to turn into a flame war.

The underrepresentation of whites is due to the overrepresentation of Asians, not all minorities.

 

[foofish]

Thread Title: Over-Represented Minors

See, I accidentally stumbled into this thread because I, too, am incensed by the lawyering-up of American teenagers....and then it turns out to be another URM thread.

 

[SamaraMorgan]

The underrepresentation of whites is due to the overrepresentation of Asians, not all minorities.

It looks like other minorities are over-represented as well. Anyone have other statistics that might shed light on this, like number of minorities getting advanced degrees or sociology of asian-americans or something? The numbers just seem so vastly unrepresentative.

 

[OncDoc19]

I'll preface this by saying that I am caucasian...

I have no problem with giving some special consideration to under-represented minorities and economically disadvantaged applicants. After hundreds of years of slavery of african-americans and killing native americans and then stealing their land, I think the least we can do is give them a little leniency when it comes to medical school applications.

I don’t have the same issue you seem to with the over-representation of asian minorities in medical schools. As long as they aren’t given special consideration because they are minorities ever though they are not under-represented, which they aren’t I don’t see what the problem is. You take the same MCAT, and theoretically the same opportunities to take courses, do research, and get involved in organizations as the asian students do. Its up to every person to take advantage of those opportunities and if it just so happens that a higher proportion of the asian population are good applicants then congratulations to them.

Honestly, I think the reason why Asians are “over-represented” in medical schools in that there is a greater emphasis in the asian community on higher education – and by this I mean graduate school, medical school, etc, not just an undergraduate degree. So if you want a greater percentage of white students to get into medical schools then you need to figure out a way to encourage white students to be more ambitious in their educational careers. I’m not trying to make a blanket statement about white students, certainly there are a large number of very ambitious and intelligent white student, just that in my perception asian students tend to be more dedicated to their education than their white counterparts. And that is my $0.02. (Hope I haven’t started a war here)

 

[xylem29]

I'm sure this will turn into a flame war, but hopefully I will get some insightful responses.

Take an example of a good medical school...let's just say...Northwestern. Look at the percentages for the race representation:

http://www.medschool.northwestern.edu/admissions/md/students/class-profile.html

43.7% white students. Let's compare this to the rest of the United States:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

of which the percentages couldn't have changed that much in the past 7 years. 75.1% white. This probably isn't the best source but it's in the ballpark.

Things like this make me think that minorities are being over-represented in medical schools. I am not racist - Really, I'm not. But this does seem a bit off... I don't think the white kids are any dumber. So why do minorities say white people are given more privileges?

u call that underrepresented??? compared to all non-white students, okay, sure, they are the minority at NW. But if you break the non-white students into their respective ethnic groups, then i'm pretty sure whites at NW make up the largest group...unless it is like 40% east or south asian 43% white and the rest are east or south asian, black, etc....anyway, you're using the stats from one school to show that whites are underrepsented? I think you have to take into account the %'s of applicants and the %'s of those matriculated no?

If you're numbers are correct - i.e. whites are 75% of the US population but only make up 43% of the medical profession, then ok - whites are underrepsented. And "white privelege" isn't always tangible. And you aren't the first one to "think" that minorities are over-represented - haven't you ever heard of the term ORM? It's pretty clear which minority groups are ORM and which are URMs...

 

[outofhere]

I don't believe you when you say you're looking for insightful responses. It would be fun to turn this into a flaming war...
To generalize based on race is just that, gross generalizations. No one race is smarter/dumber than another- as medical school isn't really about smarts. It is about being a monkey who can recite random minutia... People have different aspirations, and perhaps it is more socially acceptable to be x or y as an Asian than be a or b as a Caucasian. And frankly, I think school acceptance ought to be race-blind. If that turns a class into 100% whatever, then so be it.

 

[wutwinb]

I don't believe you when you say you're looking for insightful responses. It would be fun to turn this into a flaming war...
To generalize based on race is just that, gross generalizations. No one race is smarter/dumber than another- as medical school isn't really about smarts. It is about being a monkey who can recite random minutia... People have different aspirations, and perhaps it is more socially acceptable to be x or y as an Asian than be a or b as a Caucasian. And frankly, I think school acceptance ought to be race-blind. If that turns a class into 100% whatever, then so be it.

if that 100% of "whatever" wasn't your race, i'm sure you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

 

[xylem29]

I'll preface this by saying that I am caucasian...

I have no problem with giving some special consideration to under-represented minorities and economically disadvantaged applicants. After hundreds of years of slavery of african-americans and killing native americans and then stealing their land, I think the least we can do is give them a little leniency when it comes to medical school applications.

I don’t have the same issue you seem to with the over-representation of asian minorities in medical schools. As long as they aren’t given special consideration because they are minorities ever though they are not under-represented, which they aren’t I don’t see what the problem is. You take the same MCAT, and theoretically the same opportunities to take courses, do research, and get involved in organizations as the asian students do. Its up to every person to take advantage of those opportunities and if it just so happens that a higher proportion of the asian population are good applicants then congratulations to them.

Honestly, I think the reason why Asians are “over-represented” in medical schools in that there is a greater emphasis in the asian community on higher education – and by this I mean graduate school, medical school, etc, not just an undergraduate degree. So if you want a greater percentage of white students to get into medical schools then you need to figure out a way to encourage white students to be more ambitious in their educational careers. I’m not trying to make a blanket statement about white students, certainly there are a large number of very ambitious and intelligent white student, just that in my perception asian students tend to be more dedicated to their education than their white counterparts. And that is my $0.02. (Hope I haven’t started a war here)

if the entire population of asians from asia immigrated to the US, then you'd probably see the same proportion - in other words, it is a self-selected ethinic group. and yea, i think if someone said that asians are ORep b/c of special considerations for being minorities, that person would get flamed like mad...b/c there's speculation that they acutally get shafted for being asian...the "new jews" as Daniel Golden wrote...http://www.amazon.com/Price-Admission-Americas-Colleges-Outside/dp/1400097967

 

[GuzzyRon]

So what exactly is the purpose of this thread again? Can someone please juggle my memory?

 

[xylem29]

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2003to2006detmat.htm (matriculated)

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2003to2006det.htm (applied)

Here, go and calculate the proportions yourself and tell me what you find....

 

[xylem29]

I'm sure this will turn into a flame war, but hopefully I will get some insightful responses.

Take an example of a good medical school...let's just say...Northwestern. Look at the percentages for the race representation:

http://www.medschool.northwestern.edu/admissions/md/students/class-profile.html

43.7% white students. Let's compare this to the rest of the United States:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

of which the percentages couldn't have changed that much in the past 7 years. 75.1% white. This probably isn't the best source but it's in the ballpark.

Things like this make me think that minorities are being over-represented in medical schools. I am not racist - Really, I'm not. But this does seem a bit off... I don't think the white kids are any dumber. So why do minorities say white people are given more privileges?

Yes - it is NOT a friggin secret!!! Asians and Jews (any other minorites I'm missing) are over represented...so what?

 

[OncDoc19]

So what exactly is the purpose of this thread again? Can someone please juggle my memory?

Mainly to start a flame war by taking the student ethnicity statistics of one particular school, which happens to be in a heavily asian community, and use this as representative of med schools as a whole.

 

[xylem29]

Mainly to start a flame war by taking the student ethnicity statistics of one particular school, which happens to be in a heavily asian community, and use this as representative of med schools as a whole.

lol - i could see the OP using howard or meharry to say that blacks are overrepresented and how the white man is being screwed over...lol...scary **** if you ask me

 

[MSTPbound]

Overrepresented Minorities.



Just when you think you've heard it all... sometimes we'd be better served by dropping ignorant politics and hitting the books a little harder. A couple of history books thrown into the science reading list might not hurt either.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

If anything Asians are fu<ked by this process. Many Asians aspire to be doctors (cultural influence, familial influence, etc... you name it), but no top private would ever let their school be over run by Asians. Honestly, if they were being fair, there would be slightly more Asians overrepresenting even more.

Asians have to have a slightly better MCAT, on average, than even Whites to get into the medical schools (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm). Reason? B/c there are so many, too fu<kin many, applying. It sucks. I hate it. I am South Asian and it pisses me off b/c when Adcomm's are meeting they are ''diversifying'' their class and you know they'd never let any class become more than 15% South Asian.

That means in say a class of 100, I am fighting for at 1 of at most 10 seats (remember no Adcomm would ever let all 15 or so South Asians be male, they would like a mixture of us by sex, if you will). See my perspective?

Also Asians have a 43% acceptance race as a race... Whites are at 46%.

Ah GHAd why do I do this. ah.

 

[Monkeymaniac]

I'll preface this by saying that I am caucasian...

I have no problem with giving some special consideration to under-represented minorities and economically disadvantaged applicants. After hundreds of years of slavery of african-americans and killing native americans and then stealing their land, I think the least we can do is give them a little leniency when it comes to medical school applications.

I don’t have the same issue you seem to with the over-representation of asian minorities in medical schools. As long as they aren’t given special consideration because they are minorities ever though they are not under-represented, which they aren’t I don’t see what the problem is. You take the same MCAT, and theoretically the same opportunities to take courses, do research, and get involved in organizations as the asian students do. Its up to every person to take advantage of those opportunities and if it just so happens that a higher proportion of the asian population are good applicants then congratulations to them.

Honestly, I think the reason why Asians are “over-represented” in medical schools in that there is a greater emphasis in the asian community on higher education – and by this I mean graduate school, medical school, etc, not just an undergraduate degree. So if you want a greater percentage of white students to get into medical schools then you need to figure out a way to encourage white students to be more ambitious in their educational careers. I’m not trying to make a blanket statement about white students, certainly there are a large number of very ambitious and intelligent white student, just that in my perception asian students tend to be more dedicated to their education than their white counterparts. And that is my $0.02. (Hope I haven’t started a war here)

Amen to that.

 

[interstellar]

gosh it really scares me that threads like this keep popping up.. when will ppl stop looking at their skin, and try working on their BRAAAINS??

hmrph.

 

[Robizzle]

I'll preface this by saying that I am caucasian...

I have no problem with giving some special consideration to under-represented minorities and economically disadvantaged applicants. After hundreds of years of slavery of african-americans and killing native americans and then stealing their land, I think the least we can do is give them a little leniency when it comes to medical school applications.

I don’t have the same issue you seem to with the over-representation of asian minorities in medical schools. As long as they aren’t given special consideration because they are minorities ever though they are not under-represented, which they aren’t I don’t see what the problem is. You take the same MCAT, and theoretically the same opportunities to take courses, do research, and get involved in organizations as the asian students do. Its up to every person to take advantage of those opportunities and if it just so happens that a higher proportion of the asian population are good applicants then congratulations to them.

Honestly, I think the reason why Asians are “over-represented” in medical schools in that there is a greater emphasis in the asian community on higher education – and by this I mean graduate school, medical school, etc, not just an undergraduate degree. So if you want a greater percentage of white students to get into medical schools then you need to figure out a way to encourage white students to be more ambitious in their educational careers. I’m not trying to make a blanket statement about white students, certainly there are a large number of very ambitious and intelligent white student, just that in my perception asian students tend to be more dedicated to their education than their white counterparts. And that is my $0.02. (Hope I haven’t started a war here)

Good post

 

[nka1985]

Ha, this will turn into a war. I think that the whole special consideration for "under represented minorities" thing has turned into reverse racism...and I'm Portuguese, a definite minority, though one not usually mentioned. I don't think that racial information should even be collected when you apply or when you matriculate.

 

[dutchman]

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/12930.html

Race/Ethnicity Number Percentage
White 421,659 47.8
Black 20,653 2.3
Hispanic 27,935 3.2
Asian 73,152 8.3
American Native/Alaska Native 504 .06
Other 20,011 2.3
Unknown 321,060 36

Notice how between Blacks and hispanics(whom account for close to 30% of our entire population), they have only 5.5% of physicians. I have always said that if we had all agreed to go practice in those communities, maybe we would not need to recruit doctors from those communities. As it is now, unless we actually start drafting doctors to those communities, we really have no choice but to agressively recruit them. Those are the communities that account for a bulk of the low healthcare stats that we have today. We need to fix it before society turns arround and fixes us with some forced healthcare system that you guys will not really care for.

 

[RollSkins]

My personal opinion on the matter is that skin color should play no role in the decision making process. It should all be based on merit. That being said I think that there are definetly certain racial groups that on a whole have better opportunites presented to them so perhaps that should be taken into consideration

 

[BrownianMotion]

Yes - it is NOT a friggin secret!!! Asians and Jews (any other minorites I'm missing) are over represented...so what?

Jews are now considered a race?

 

[mongrel]

I don't believe you when you say you're looking for insightful responses. It would be fun to turn this into a flaming war...
To generalize based on race is just that, gross generalizations. No one race is smarter/dumber than another- as medical school isn't really about smarts. It is about being a monkey who can recite random minutia... People have different aspirations, and perhaps it is more socially acceptable to be x or y as an Asian than be a or b as a Caucasian. And frankly, I think school acceptance ought to be race-blind. If that turns a class into 100% whatever, then so be it.

More than anything I would have to agree with this. Let's just level the playing field once and for all. Do we or do we not want the best and brightest doctors regardless of superficial nuances? If we're in for some cultural surprises then let it be so.

 

[biotechcheme]

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

is it just me, or do the numbers not even match up? apparently, all the races add up to 112-114% of our population.

and in the words of the great Russell Peters...eventually we're all going to be a hybrid mix of chinese and indian. it's inevitable. we're the two largest populations in the world, so you can run from us now, but sooner or later, we're going to hump you.

 

[DoctaJay]

The figures below are taken from this link on AAMCs site: https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version53.pdf&prd_id=133&prv_id=154&pdf_id=53 and https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version71.pdf&prd_id=161&prv_id=191&pdf_id=71

PERCENT POPULATION OF UNITED STATES (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html)
White= 80%
Black=12.8%
Native American=1%
Asian= 4.3%
Hispanic=14.4%

MEDICAL SCHOOL MATRCULANTS BY RACE AND ETHNICITY (2004)
White=62.1%
Asian= 18.6%
Hispanic= 7.0%
Black= 6.5%
Native American= 0.3%
Multiple Race= 3.0%
Other= 1.0%
Foreign= 1.3%

U.S. PHYSICIANS BY RACE AND ETHNICITY (2004)
White=36.7%
IMG=23.6%
Unknown=27.6%
Native American= 0.3%
Black= 3.3%
Hispanic/Latino= 2.8%
Asian= 5.7%

 

[j-weezy]

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/12930.html

Race/Ethnicity Number Percentage
White 421,659 47.8
Black 20,653 2.3
Hispanic 27,935 3.2
Asian 73,152 8.3
American Native/Alaska Native 504 .06
Other 20,011 2.3
Unknown 321,060 36

Notice how between Blacks and hispanics(whom account for close to 30% of our entire population), they have only 5.5% of physicians. I have always said that if we had all agreed to go practice in those communities, maybe we would not need to recruit doctors from those communities. As it is now, unless we actually start drafting doctors to those communities, we really have no choice but to agressively recruit them. Those are the communities that account for a bulk of the low healthcare stats that we have today. We need to fix it before society turns arround and fixes us with some forced healthcare system that you guys will not really care for.

Well said. A close family member (who's a physician at a medical school) says one of the reasons for heavily recruiting URMs is that statistically they are more likely to go and work in under-served areas.

 

[Dart1516]

Wow--what a morning. What a post.

 

[polofanPKP]

If anything Asians are fu<ked by this process. Many Asians aspire to be doctors (cultural influence, familial influence, etc... you name it), but no top private would ever let their school be over run by Asians. Honestly, if they were being fair, there would be slightly more Asians overrepresenting even more.

Asians have to have a slightly better MCAT, on average, than even Whites to get into the medical schools (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm). Reason? B/c there are so many, too fu<kin many, applying. It sucks. I hate it. I am South Asian and it pisses me off b/c when Adcomm's are meeting they are ''diversifying'' their class and you know they'd never let any class become more than 15% South Asian.

If you define slightly better as less than one MCAT point. Also, your link doesn't work, here is one that does: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

What it shows is: Asian Matriculants - 9.8 VR, 10.8 PS, 10.9 BS
White Matriculants - 10.1 VR, 10.2 PS, 10.6 BS

And what about GPA's?
Asian Matriculants - 3.60 Science, 3.66 Total
White Matriculants - 3.62 Science, 3.67 Total

The difference is negligible, get off your soap-box, asians are no better in the numbers game than whites.

And in response to being a doctor because of cultural influence or familial influence, I have to say that I would much rather have a physician who decides to go into medicine because of a personal choice rather than being pressured into it. That is an incredibly weak argument for why south asians should be admitted.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

If you define slightly better as less than one MCAT point. Also, your link doesn't work, here is one that does: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

What it shows is: Asian Matriculants - 9.8 VR, 10.8 PS, 10.9 BS
White Matriculants - 10.1 VR, 10.2 PS, 10.6 BS

And what about GPA's?
Asian Matriculants - 3.60 Science, 3.66 Total
White Matriculants - 3.62 Science, 3.67 Total

The difference is negligible, get off your soap-box, asians are no better in the numbers game than whites.

And in response to being a doctor because of cultural influence or familial influence, I have to say that I would much rather have a physician who decides to go into medicine because of a personal choice rather than being pressured into it. That is an incredibly weak argument for why south asians should be admitted.

First off, I did say SLIGHTLY better on the MCAT since the OP was sort of implying that Whites are getting screwed over by this process. I didn't lie when I stated this. Also realize that Asians tend to have lower Verbal averages and have to make up for it in the science sections (they have lower Verbal averages b/c many of them learn English later on in life as a second language / don't speak it at home). Asians as a whole do get some slack on the Verbal score, but they have to make it up, on average, by scoring better than 90%ile on the other sections.

Oh trust me man, I hate how a ridiculous amount of Asians go into medicine without really really really thinking about it. Personally I went against the grain and told my parents that I wasn't interested in medicine when I got into college... I had to deal with some crap... but then, in a twist of fate, realized it was for me while doing research and volunteering. I am not trying to say that Asians should be admitted over whites, I'm trying to say that whites aren't the only ones getting screwed over.

Also, you don't realize that no top private would let a school be over run by Asians. No school would want that image. Am I not being politically correct? You know I am right. The fact is I am fighting for one seat out of less than 15 at any top school. Do you realize how many South Asians apply to top schools?

Ok no more whining. There's no point.

 

[polofanPKP]

First off, I did say SLIGHTLY better on the MCAT since the OP was sort of implying that Whites are getting screwed over by this process. I didn't lie when I stated this. Also realize that Asians tend to have lower Verbal averages and have to make up for it in the science sections (they have lower Verbal averages b/c many of them learn English later on in life as a second language / don't speak it at home). Asians as a whole do get some slack on the Verbal score, but they have to make it up, on average, by scoring better than 90%ile on the other sections.

Oh trust me man, I hate how a ridiculous amount of Asians go into medicine without really really really thinking about it. Personally I went against the grain and told my parents that I wasn't interested in medicine when I got into college... I had to deal with some crap... but then, in a twist of fate, realized it was for me while doing research and volunteering. I am not trying to say that Asians should be admitted over whites, I'm trying to say that whites aren't the only ones getting screwed over.

Also, you don't realize that no top private would let a school be over run by Asians. No school would want that image. Am I not being politically correct? You know I am right. The fact is I am fighting for one seat out of less than 15 at any top school. Do you realize how many South Asians apply to top schools?

Ok no more whining. There's no point.

You make south asians sound like an epidemic, "over-run"?. Anyway, I do agree with you, I don't think that any top school wants to be branded with the idea that they allow any people group to over-run the school and to make assumptions as such are dangerous. Are there more whites in most medical schools, yes, however they are also the largest population group and they do have excellent competitive numbers for admisssion so you can't throw adcoms under the bus for that.

I agree, complaining on here doesn't accomplish much other than a place for people to vent, which is ok in moderation.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I have no problem with giving some special consideration to under-represented minorities and economically disadvantaged applicants. After hundreds of years of slavery of african-americans and killing native americans and then stealing their land, I think the least we can do is give them a little leniency when it comes to medical school applications.

I agree with the post except for the above quote. What about people whose ancestors were not even in this country during these atrocities? How are they included in the 'WE.' From their perspective, you are giving one group a leg up for the sins of strangers.

I agree that, sadly, in our self-segregated society, people feel they get the best health care from someone of the same skin color, so there is benefit in creating a diverse physician population. I however do not agree with the methods currently used to meet that end.

 

[EBI831]

OP, i wonder if you accidentally/randomly picked northwestern. because from what i found when looking at the MSAR last year, Northwestern has a larger asian population and lower caucasian population compared to many other private similar schools. so i'm guessing u went through and just randomly searched for the lowest one to try to make your point seem more valid.

 

[RollSkins]

I agree with the post except for the above quote. What about people whose ancestors were not even in this country during these atrocities? How are they included in the 'WE.' From their perspective, you are giving one group a leg up for the sins of strangers.

I agree that, sadly, in our self-segregated society, people feel they get the best health care from someone of the same skin color, so there is benefit in creating a diverse physician population. I however do not agree with the methods currently used to meet that end.

I am not sure about this I really can't say how most people feel. But when I was volunteering/shadowing a doctor at a free clinic and at his practice he told me that often times black patients won't go see black doctors because they don't feel that they are as qualified. He has been practicing medicine for over thirty years so I would assume he knows what he is talking about. I really don't know how people feel about this and don't presume to know I am just reporting what I have heard. So that being said don't go off on me because I am just the messenger. (That reminds me of the scene in 300 when the messenger gets kicked into the pit. That movie was awesome!)

 

[SamaraMorgan]

OP, i wonder if you accidentally/randomly picked northwestern. because from what i found when looking at the MSAR last year, Northwestern has a larger asian population and lower caucasian population compared to many other private similar schools. so i'm guessing u went through and just randomly searched for the lowest one to try to make your point seem more valid.

No, I've been accepted there and was thinking of going so I was looking up numbers. It wasn't random but now that I compare it to Pritzker I see what you mean.

 

[stixx]

.

 

[Pansit]

I'm sure this will turn into a flame war, but hopefully I will get some insightful responses.

Take an example of a good medical school...let's just say...Northwestern. Look at the percentages for the race representation:

http://www.medschool.northwestern.edu/admissions/md/students/class-profile.html

43.7% white students. Let's compare this to the rest of the United States:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

of which the percentages couldn't have changed that much in the past 7 years. 75.1% white. This probably isn't the best source but it's in the ballpark.

Things like this make me think that minorities are being over-represented in medical schools. I am not racist - Really, I'm not. But this does seem a bit off... I don't think the white kids are any dumber. So why do minorities say white people are given more privileges?

The problem with your post is that you are separating "whites" and "minorities" into just two groups. If you are going to dish out numbers for "whites", then you have to separate each minority figure as well (asian, african-american,...etc). So when you look at those numbers, you will see that only asians really are overrepresented. You cant just say minorities are overrepresented...that is a valueless statement that needs to be specified into a bit more detail.

 

[Eric Lindros]

I have no problem with giving some special consideration to under-represented minorities and economically disadvantaged applicants. After hundreds of years of slavery of african-americans and killing native americans and then stealing their land, I think the least we can do is give them a little leniency when it comes to medical school applications.

I don't know about you, but I never owned any slaves or killed any native americans. You realize it's 2007, right?

 

[thesmartazz]

I don't know about you, but I never owned any slaves or killed any native americans. You realize it's 2007, right?

And of course, institutions such as slavery and forced relocation have no legacies, right? Give me a break. It's 2007, and we should be ashamed of how institutional and de facto racism are still rampant in our society. Think about how recently in history schools were even integrated in the U.S. Many of us have parents who were born before that happened. Now tell me that it's 2007 and that America is some type of ideal society.

 

[NCF145]

And of course, institutions such as slavery and forced relocation have no legacies, right? Give me a break. It's 2007, and we should be ashamed of how institutional and de facto racism are still rampant in our society. Think about how recently in history schools were even integrated in the U.S. Many of us have parents who were born before that happened. Now tell me that it's 2007 and that America is some type of ideal society.

America is not an ideal society. Never was and never will be. Nor will any other society. The fact is that the racism is not one sided. All races contain racists.

 

[sirus_virus]

I am always surprised at how the titles of these threads get tweaked for the purpose of arguing the same damn thing over and over again. This one was creative though--"over-represented minorities"

 

[LatinoMasFino]

When will people stop looking over their shoulder? When will we finally come to term with the fact that a limited number of spots will undoubtadly require that some people be left out? Regardless of the way it happens, some will definately think it is unfair.

Diversity is good on its own right because it enriches a medical school community (or any community), and allows people of different backgrounds and ideals to come together. Race is not the only way that medical schools can quantify diversity, but it is a good enough way to do so. But socioeconomic diversity is used, and diversity in experiences is used as well. The accomplished pianist gets a nod from any adcom because his/her experiences have the potential to bring something new to a school.

I appreciate the fact that I met so many people from different parts of the world as an undergrad simply because it allowed me to see customs and ways of life that were a bit different than mine. However, I never expected people from different parts of the world or different socioeconomic conditions to go back to their countries or their improverished neighborhoods because it is NOT why they are sitting next to me in class. They're sitting next to me because schools understand that a diverse class is important; it is what challenges our views of the world and makes us critically think about our place within it.

So the racial "over-representation" of certain groups shouldn't threaten anyone. We're all people, and we're all going to be doctors. More importantly, when we're in the real world as doctors we will see a variety of people from different backgrounds. Hopefully we will be able to look beyond their color, shape, etc. and focus on their unique problems. And maybe the diversity that we were exposed to in medical school will help us do this.

 

[TMP-SMX]

I don't know about you, but I never owned any slaves or killed any native americans. You realize it's 2007, right?

O jeez. I've never heard this before. However, let me say this: If your ancestors stole a horse and they are still using it does that make you a thief?

 

[NCF145]

This topic keeps coming up because a lot of people are pissed and feel burned by the current admissions process and its relation to race. I am firmly against AA being imposed b/c of the past. I do not agree with it and never will. However, I think the most logical and reasonable argument for recruiting minority doctors was by dutchman.

Notice how between Blacks and hispanics(whom account for close to 30% of our entire population), they have only 5.5% of physicians. I have always said that if we had all agreed to go practice in those communities, maybe we would not need to recruit doctors from those communities. As it is now, unless we actually start drafting doctors to those communities, we really have no choice but to agressively recruit them. Those are the communities that account for a bulk of the low healthcare stats that we have today. We need to fix it before society turns arround and fixes us with some forced healthcare system that you guys will not really care for.

 

[NCF145]

When will people stop looking over their shoulder? When will we finally come to term with the fact that a limited number of spots will undoubtadly require that some people be left out? Regardless of the way it happens, some will definately think it is unfair.

Diversity is good on its own right because it enriches a medical school community (or any community), and allows people of different backgrounds and ideals to come together. Race is not the only way that medical schools can quantify diversity, but it is a good enough way to do so. But socioeconomic diversity is used, and diversity in experiences is used as well. The accomplished pianist gets a nod from any adcom because his/her experiences have the potential to bring something new to a school.

I appreciate the fact that I met so many people from different parts of the world as an undergrad simply because it allowed me to see customs and ways of life that were a bit different than mine. However, I never expected people from different parts of the world or different socioeconomic conditions to go back to their countries or their improverished neighborhoods because it is NOT why they are sitting next to me in class. They're sitting next to me because schools understand that a diverse class is important; it is what challenges our views of the world and makes us critically think about our place within it.

So the racial "over-representation" of certain groups shouldn't threaten anyone. We're all people, and we're all going to be doctors. More importantly, when we're in the real world as doctors we will see a variety of people from different backgrounds. Hopefully we will be able to look beyond their color, shape, etc. and focus on their unique problems. And maybe the diversity that we were exposed to in medical school will help us do this.

Since most people tend to spend most of their time with people who are like-minded and have similar backgrounds, I don't see how a diverse class really adds that much perspective. Especially in medical school, where the only interaction one may have with others in their class is in lab or lecture.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

 

[xylem29]

Jews are now considered a race?

ok ok - no, not race you're right. but they can be considered an ethnicity and hence, do consider themselves a minority.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

my guess is ether ^o^ will pop up soon.

where the hell is DKM nowdays? I miss the hilarity.

 

[xylem29]

When will people stop looking over their shoulder? When will we finally come to term with the fact that a limited number of spots will undoubtadly require that some people be left out? Regardless of the way it happens, some will definately think it is unfair.

Diversity is good on its own right because it enriches a medical school community (or any community), and allows people of different backgrounds and ideals to come together. Race is not the only way that medical schools can quantify diversity, but it is a good enough way to do so. But socioeconomic diversity is used, and diversity in experiences is used as well. The accomplished pianist gets a nod from any adcom because his/her experiences have the potential to bring something new to a school.

I appreciate the fact that I met so many people from different parts of the world as an undergrad simply because it allowed me to see customs and ways of life that were a bit different than mine. However, I never expected people from different parts of the world or different socioeconomic conditions to go back to their countries or their improverished neighborhoods because it is NOT why they are sitting next to me in class. They're sitting next to me because schools understand that a diverse class is important; it is what challenges our views of the world and makes us critically think about our place within it.

So the racial "over-representation" of certain groups shouldn't threaten anyone. We're all people, and we're all going to be doctors. More importantly, when we're in the real world as doctors we will see a variety of people from different backgrounds. Hopefully we will be able to look beyond their color, shape, etc. and focus on their unique problems. And maybe the diversity that we were exposed to in medical school will help us do this.

Words of wisdom right here - something I would have said myself, but you already said it.

 

[xylem29]

my guess is ether ^o^ will pop up soon.

where the hell is DKM nowdays? I miss the hilarity.

i thought ether was permanently banned...lol. anyway, i don't think that asians are screwed over THAT badly - a lot of it is just self-perception and some even constructed in our heads. just don't ever say asians have an advantage to explain our overrepresentation....you know, this type of crap would've been considered anti-semitism if it was about jews - complaining about the overrepresentation of a group - such as asians, maybe the OP is an anti-asianite.