Overrated Schools

[davidus]

At the expense of incurring ire, I'm going to throw in my two cents about WashU. Let's assume for a moment that they are equally selective (in terms of acceptance percentage from the same highly achieving group) as Harvard and JHU. If that's the case, then don't they have to make some sacrifices in the research/leadership/extracurricular/life experiences department in order to take higher MCATers and GPAers? Doesn't that make for a less experienced/interesting student body?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[linuxizer]

So, North Pavilion opened this year, and yes, I can tell you the new facilities are excellent, the ER is excellent, etc. etc. However, it's no Northwestern Memorial or WU's Center for Advanced Medicine or UCLA's Westwood Replacement - no marble, no scuptures from famous people, no granite stone - just a large, technologically up-to-date hospital expanding over 3/4 of a city block.

Hey JPaikman-
Your comments are pretty much dead on. The people there are incredible; the funding...well, let's just say it's an Alabama school, with all the Trustees baggage that brings about. Basically UAB can attract the people it does due in part to agressive recruitment, a nice base of talent already, and being able to pull the best in the region--it's not competing with dozens of other good academic hospitals like in the NE.

--Ari

 

[GuyLaroche]

At the expense of incurring ire, I'm going to throw in my two cents about WashU. Let's assume for a moment that they are equally selective (in terms of acceptance percentage from the same highly achieving group) as Harvard and JHU. If that's the case, then don't they have to make some sacrifices in the research/leadership/extracurricular/life experiences department in order to take higher MCATers and GPAers? Doesn't that make for a less experienced/interesting student body?

You should not judge a school based on its MCAT/GPA average nor should you judge it on perceptions propagated by bitter people who haven't the MCAT/GPA averages of the school. Instead, judge the school on the quality of the education it gives, the type of research that is produced, the amount of funding available to such a school, the type of residencies its students are able to match into and finally the level of exposure such a school would provide to you. In all these respects, WashU is simply the best.

 

[davidus]

You should not judge a school based on its MCAT/GPA average nor should you judge it on perceptions propagated by bitter people who haven't the MCAT/GPA averages of the school. Instead, judge the school on the quality of the education it gives, the type of research that is produced, the amount of funding available to such a school, the type of residencies its students are able to match into and finally the level of exposure such a school would provide to you. In all these respects, WashU is simply the best.

GL, I'm talking about will I really love being around all my fellow students 24/7. This was one of my biggest application criteria. Many of your classmates will be your buddies 50 years from now. On a quasi-tangent: At my undergrad, there was always this WashU-being-the-only-good-place-you-got-in syndrome so many of the high scorers inevitably ended up there.

 

[GuyLaroche]

GL, I'm talking about will I really love being around all my fellow students 24/7. This was one of my biggest application criteria. Many of your classmates will be your buddies 50 years from now. On a quasi-tangent: At my undergrad, there was always this WashU-being-the-only-good-place-you-got-in syndrome so many of the high scorers inevitably ended up there.

Perhaps these things - friends, buddies etc - are important to you. Unfortunately, they are marginally important to me. I certainly respect your criteria in choosing schools. At the level that top research schools like Hopkins and WashU play, the the type of people you'll get to hang out with should not be very high on anyone's list. The truth is if you go into academic medicine, you're likely going to have to be extremely competitive to secure grant funds, to publish in the best journals, to sit on the best committees etc. The people you'll get to work with in your department are not likely going to be your buddies. If WashU creates a culture of high achieving, less friendly people (and we've little evidence that it does that), then it would be preparing you for a future in academia. In so doing, it would be clearly achieving its goals as the best research institution in the nation.

 

[davidus]

Perhaps these things - friends, buddies etc - are important to you. Unfortunately, they are marginally important to me. I certainly respect your criteria in choosing schools. At the level that top research schools like Hopkins and WashU play, the the type of people you'll get to hang out with should not be very high on anyone's list.

To me, interesting, fun, not too high strung classmates are on par with location. You're going to be there four years (minimum). Might as well have the best environment possible. Granted, third and fourth years, you're much more on your own.

 

[HeHateMe]

i could be very wrong, but i get the feeling that mayo is very underrated? i mean ..one of the best clinical settings in the world, a small class size, and pretty selective admissions, i dont see why they aren't at least top 15

I agree, Mayo is a great school and is underrated. They explained at the interview day that part of the reason they are ranked so high is because of the way there research centers are split up so that not all the research that is going on is attributed to the med school. They said they are taking steps to fix that by changing the name and organization etc.

And as for Wash U, you know you all would kill for an acceptence there as would I, so here's hoping for some express mail on Friday.

Cheers,

 

[Doctor&Geek]

I agree, Mayo is a great school and is underrated. They explained at the interview day that part of the reason they are ranked so high is because of the way there research centers are split up so that not all the research that is going on is attributed to the med school. They said they are taking steps to fix that by changing the name and organization etc.

No offence, but I think that's a crock of bull.

According to

http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/trends/cong108dist9603.xls

only two institutions are listed for the congressional district in which Mayo is located, and only one of them is Mayo (the other one is UMinnesota-Mankato)

Frankly, if they want to cheat (and it is cheating) by adding funds from Mayo-Jax and Mayo-Arizona to the pile, this only adds about 13 million more to their NIH funding list, moving them from 42nd to 36th place in this metric:

http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/trends/rnk03all1to100.html

Just changing statistics isn't going to help Mayo rise from its current rank.

 

[18laguna]

Do you guys/gals think Dartmouth is overrated or underrarted?

Thanks

 

[SocialistMD]

At the level that top research schools like Hopkins and WashU play, the the type of people you'll get to hang out with should not be very high on anyone's list. The truth is if you go into academic medicine, you're likely going to have to be extremely competitive to secure grant funds, to publish in the best journals, to sit on the best committees etc. The people you'll get to work with in your department are not likely going to be your buddies.

As someone on the other side of the medical school looking-glass, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I've found that most people in every clinical department get along well. At each program I interviewed for residency, the faculty did all appear to be friends. Furthermore, at my department, I know first hand that the faculty in the department of surgery are social friends as well as coworkers.

It is rare for two physicians working in the same institution to compete for the same grant. If they happen to share a research interest, they are usually collaborators rather than competitors. There is much less intra-institutional competition than you believe, and when it does exist, it is most often a friendly rivalry as one has with his best friend during recreational sports (golf, tennis, poker, keg-stands, etc...).

Medicine is a team sport. You work together for a positive end. As a result, you want to work with people with whom you can work. I know of several physicians who have left for chair positions and other physicians have followed them. I have also seen people leave when new people move into their departments due to personality conflicts. Academic medicine is not immune to the social nature of humans. You may like to think you can exist in your academic bubble independent of everyone else, but you'll find it a very lonely and difficult place to work.

 

[blump]

I think Yale is quite overrated. I think U Chicago is underrated

 

[GuyLaroche]

As someone on the other side of the medical school looking-glass, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I've found that most people in every clinical department get along well. At each program I interviewed for residency, the faculty did all appear to be friends. Furthermore, at my department, I know first hand that the faculty in the department of surgery are social friends as well as coworkers.

It is rare for two physicians working in the same institution to compete for the same grant. If they happen to share a research interest, they are usually collaborators rather than competitors. There is much less intra-institutional competition than you believe, and when it does exist, it is most often a friendly rivalry as one has with his best friend during recreational sports (golf, tennis, poker, keg-stands, etc...).

Medicine is a team sport. You work together for a positive end. As a result, you want to work with people with whom you can work. I know of several physicians who have left for chair positions and other physicians have followed them. I have also seen people leave when new people move into their departments due to personality conflicts. Academic medicine is not immune to the social nature of humans. You may like to think you can exist in your academic bubble independent of everyone else, but you'll find it a very lonely and difficult place to work.

All of these things -nice as they sound - exist in a little place far, far up North. It is a place called Euphoria, a few miles to the east of Delusion.

 

[DrRads101]

^
GuyLaroche I can't help but feel that most of your posts are quite arrogant. I definetly could be reading this wrong. But if not I hope this arrogance wasn't too visible during your interviews. Aren't you just a pre-med?

I can vouch for SocialistMD first hand as someone who is actually IN medical school and working with friends, colleagues, and MD's on research projects, and this includes clinicals. I became a member of a small group of ER doctors for a year and group dynamic was THE most important part. Medicine is a BUSINESS over anything else. It is all about connections, and it is just as important WHO you know as WHAT you know--I'm sure SocialistMD can vouch for this because it's no secret. If you want to be a lone wolf out on the research field, good luck to you, but you will definetly struggle in life, let alone be a very unhappy individual.

As far as WashU: I personally know someone who went to WashU med and TRANSFERRED due to the competitive atmosphere. This is probably not the norm, but they DO attract the stats ******, and then once you get in, the curriculum is graded and ranked, so put two and two together--you have all the people with the top MCAT scores in the country all being graded and ranked relative to each other on academic performance. And no bitterness here--I could have went to WashU and thought it was an EXCELLENT school all around. As far as playing the stats game though, let's just say that no other school sent me a huge information packet just randomly in the mail without my request asking me to apply after they somehow got a hold of my MCAT score (I'm sure others can verify this happened to them). I am not going to call the school overrated at all though, because I don't think it is.

And whoever thinks UChicago in here is OVERrated is really smoking some whack stuff. No school cares LESS about playing the stats game for rankings than UChicago, and no school that is ranked as low as they are has as high of an academic and clinical reputation. They produce OUTSTANDING researchers and reject people with high stats all the time if you are not into academic research. This included me. Got into Duke, Michigan, WashU, Northwestern, and UNC as an out-of-stater but didn't even get an INTERVIEW from UChicago. Do the math. And I know of many like me at my school who have the same story with them.

 

[SocialistMD]

All of these things -nice as they sound - exist in a little place far, far up North. It is a place called Euphoria, a few miles to the east of Delusion.

And of this you learned...where? Laroche Cartography, makers of the finest maps this side of Oz?

I'm speaking from the perspective of the places about which you are talking. As a person who has worked on the wards 2 years and is about to begin my residency at an academic surgery program I am a part of the system of which you claim to have such vast knowledge. Working alongside people you respect and with whom you can be friends will lead to much more happiness and success than sailing solo in the academic ocean.

 

[soonthere]

my question is: how is over/underrated being defined? is an overrated school one that has a very notable name, but whose match list/facilities,etc. are crap?? that would be how i would define overrated, but most of the schools that are being called overrated don't fall into those categories at all. if i call a school under/overrated i would at least supply an opinion/reason and most of the postings lack that. not to attack previous posters, but some extra info would be nice...

 

[GuyLaroche]

And of this you learned...where? Laroche Cartography, makers of the finest maps this side of Oz?

I'm speaking from the perspective of the places about which you are talking. As a person who has worked on the wards 2 years and is about to begin my residency at an academic surgery program I am a part of the system of which you claim to have such vast knowledge.

I'm glad you think it's a fine world of comradery, and I am particularly encouraged that you are finding it to be this pleasant world of hand-holding, golfing and whatever else. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who is actively engaged in research in a very competitive field. I know that beneath the surface of friendship and tennis-playing, my research advisor and his colleagues are in dire competition. It is for this reason that it matters who gets first authorship, and little games of who-knows-best are played in conference talks, and etc. I am not sure what it is like in the program that you are going to be going into. I'm sorry that my experience seems to contradict this blissful world of elysian scientists that you present.

But I like your posts, and the unparalleled access you appear to have to all of academic medicine. I am particularly tickled that you would have the time to bring to us, underlings, vestiges of your superior scholarship. That you've posted with the best of intentions, I am cetain. However, your post does smack of condescension and a haughty tone that is characteristic of the scientific world I am familiar with. I prefer to keep things real.

Addendum: if you're addressing clinical research, I must confess I don't know the slightest thing about it. It resides somewhere beneath my raised nose.

 

[SocialistMD]

However, your post does smack of condescension and a haughty tone that is characteristic of the scientific world I am familiar with. I prefer to keep things real.

Addendum: if you're addressing clinical research, I must confess I don't know the slightest thing about it. It resides somewhere beneath my raised nose.

I am talking about academic clinical research and that is why you may feel I am speaking down my long nose of knowledge to you, because I am (as that is the research in which I find myself currently engaged). I'll admit, basic sciences are a bit more competitive, but I still think your experience is the exception rather than the rule. I did basic science research as well, and the academic group in which I worked (a team of 5 PhD neurobiologists and 1 MD/PhD each operating his/her own lab in a department of ~30 neurobiologists) did pull for each other to succeed and did associate outside of the lab despite submitting a few grant proposals to the same larger funding agencies. Communication with each other prevented more overlap, as each would submit to different smaller funding organizations to avoid potential conflict and, thus, competition.

 

[FloridaMadame]

At the expense of incurring ire, I'm going to throw in my two cents about WashU. Let's assume for a moment that they are equally selective (in terms of acceptance percentage from the same highly achieving group) as Harvard and JHU. If that's the case, then don't they have to make some sacrifices in the research/leadership/extracurricular/life experiences department in order to take higher MCATers and GPAers? Doesn't that make for a less experienced/interesting student body?

You can't actually believe that it is impossible to have a great gpa and MCAT and still have years of research, a social life, leadership skills, friends, and wonderful experiences. You must realize that some people are adept at living life to the fullest and still achieving academically. Personality and interest does not always coincide with academic ability, but some people are lucky and have it all

 

[pushkin]

The truth is if you go into academic medicine, you're likely going to have to be extremely competitive to secure grant funds, to publish in the best journals, to sit on the best committees etc. The people you'll get to work with in your department are not likely going to be your buddies. If WashU creates a culture of high achieving, less friendly people (and we've little evidence that it does that), then it would be preparing you for a future in academia. In so doing, it would be clearly achieving its goals as the best research institution in the nation.

GuyLaroche, I disagree with you as well. I work in chemistry research, and I have friends in biochemistry and biomedical research, and in high energy physics research. These are all competitive fields. Not all the people who work in these areas are nice of course, but a LOT of them are. None of my friends talk about their colleagues the way you do in your post here. We make fun of the ones who annoy us, but we appreciate the ones we get along with. There is competition, but there is cooperation and comeradery as well. One thing I've noticed in general, however, is how many negative things these scientists have to say about the shallow competition among so many premeds. Not all premeds of course, but certainly enough of them to make that impression.

You are making academic medicine sound like it is full of prigs and stuffy people. I hope that isn't true, since that's where I hope to be one day!

 

[Supernova]

Reply to GuyLaroche's statements about academic medicine

I have to disagree with you on your descriptions of academic medicine. I am also engaging in academic medicine research for many years and have received a Ph.D. in human genetics. In particular, the field we are engaging in are very complex and inter-disciplinary in nature. I have frequent contact with collaboratiors such as bioinformaticists, biostatisticians and clinicians. I would describe our relationships with our collaborators as collegial and mutually beneficial instead of competitive and zero sum. I think collaborative atmosphere is the only way to foster creative thinks.

I believe many of us premed have visited many schools. You can see how the new research buildings are setting up. They tried to make common interactive areas from different disciplines so people can brainstorm. Furthermore, you can see many new NIH grants calling for interdisciplinary research such nanotech grant from NCI that requires the collaboration of biomedical researchers and engineers.

To sum up, the best way to get an edge in academic research is through collaborations and free exchange of ideas.

 

[Stanford_Playah]

I'm glad you think it's a fine world of comradery, and I am particularly encouraged that you are finding it to be this pleasant world of hand-holding, golfing and whatever else. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who is actively engaged in research in a very competitive field. I know that beneath the surface of friendship and tennis-playing, my research advisor and his colleagues are in dire competition. It is for this reason that it matters who gets first authorship, and little games of who-knows-best are played in conference talks, and etc. I am not sure what it is like in the program that you are going to be going into. I'm sorry that my experience seems to contradict this blissful world of elysian scientists that you present.

But I like your posts, and the unparalleled access you appear to have to all of academic medicine. I am particularly tickled that you would have the time to bring to us, underlings, vestiges of your superior scholarship. That you've posted with the best of intentions, I am cetain. However, your post does smack of condescension and a haughty tone that is characteristic of the scientific world I am familiar with. I prefer to keep things real.

Addendum: if you're addressing clinical research, I must confess I don't know the slightest thing about it. It resides somewhere beneath my raised nose.

Actually, I'll confess that you don't know the last thing about academic medicine or clinical research. All of the prolific and successful physicians in academia that I've met here at Stanford are the kind of people who consider their social lives and their research to be equally important. They have a great group of close friends which includes even students, and they often collaborate with each other on publications. This is why (as davidus suggests) developing a rapport with the people you'll meet in medical school and residency is important not only personally, but also for your career. Someone alluded to this earlier, but medicine is a team sport at every level and that's absolutely true.

Perhaps at your prestigious institution, there are many more serious people (like yourself) working in much more competitive fields on much more real research problems. In any case, I can say that I go to one of the best schools in country for biomedical research, and I am glad the people are not like the ones you describe, or I would simply be miserable. Maybe we're so cool because we know that we're the **** and aren't too worried about competing with people from schools like yours, which definitely reside somewhere underneath our noses.

 

[eerie234]

As a first year at Wash U I feel like I wanna set a couple things straight about this place, just because of some of the things that have been said thus far.

1. We are not graded and ranked, at least first year. Our entire first year is pass/fail, and its not the kind of pass/fail where they tell you that and then rank you anyways - it is really pass/fail, and nothing from the first year will be considered after it is over. This leads to the place being very non-competitive in atmosphere. I know some of you may not believe this, and I didn't really know what to expect about it myself when I got here, but it's true. Second year it changes to grades, but most second years say that the first year non-competitive experience extends into the second year. Beyond that, no classes are graded on a curve. Everyone can pass if everyone does well enough. All in all, the atmosphere here is not nearly as competitive as what my friends at Duke and Hopkins describe.

2. High numbers in no way makes a person uninteresting, one-dimensional, or anything other than just a normal person with high numbers. To think you can judge a person or an entire student body based on their average grades and MCAT numbers is pretty ignorant. I know it makes it easier when making decisions, but it is not accurate at all. In my class we have our share of over-achievers who work really hard, but we also have plenty of people who are just smart and didn't have to work 24/7 to get where they did. I think it is just as normal a group of people as any other school I seriously considered. Yes, the numbers are high, but that doesn't make the kids here less normal or well-rounded or down to earth. In my experience the kids come from a wide variety of backgrounds, each offering something unique and special to the class. What their MCAT score was is not that much of an issue.

3. I feel like our student body is likely very much like all the other med schools in the country. Pre-meds who get into schools work hard. All of them. Some more than others, but all of us worked hard. I mean, comparing people who got 35 vs 37 on the MCAT is kind of ridiculous - both did well, and it is highly unlikely that the person with the 37 worked all that much harder than the person with the 35. Again it gets back to just stereotyping people with high scores as uninteresting or whatever, which I think is pretty inaccurate overall.

4. Yes, the school picks people based on, among other things, high scores. Some people take offense at that. Other schools value other things more highly. I feel like I was rejected at certain schools because I didn't spend 4 years in a lab during undergrad. All schools have different criteria that they value the highest. It seems like this criteria is working well for this school, just like whatever criteria Hopkins or Duke or UPenn have is working well for them. Why criticize really?

5. The school is really great to its students. They work hard to keep us happy, and always are willing to listen to any concerns or needs we feel like are important enough to share. Beyond that, the reputation is great, and the matchlist is great, both being things that helped me make my decision to come.

Bottom line is, the kids here are no less normal than at any other school in the country. The numbers are high, but that really doesn't mean anything one way of the other. Its a good school with a good reputation. I like it here, many others wouldn't fit here - that is my and their prerogative. But please, don't think you can judge a school and its students by saying that because we have high numbers we're all nerds that study all the time and want to kill eachother for the highest grades. Because none of that is true. I have no problem with people who came here and decided its not for them, but it just seems ignorant to say things that blatantly are not true.
Enough with this rant.

 

[scrappysurfer]

All of these things -nice as they sound - exist in a little place far, far up North. It is a place called Euphoria, a few miles to the east of Delusion.

I'm with SocialistMD on this one. After working in a clinical research lab for several years -collaborating side-by-side with more than a dozen surgeons - I have found the atmosphere to be collaborative. Surgeons, especially orthopods, are famous for being bull-headed and competitive. Yet I have found them to be congenial and well-meaning. They contact eachother regularly to discuss the best options for their patients. They have "visiting professorships" to encourage big name centers to come together to discuss their point of view on difficult pathologies....There is simply too much information to not work together and I see little hesitation to contact someone else who has more experience with a certain complication.

 

[funshine]

I think Georgetown is one of the most under rated, except for the fact that thier facilities suck.
Im on the fence as far as Yale goes...I don't have personal experience with it but I have a friend there that says its not all its cracked up to be.

I heard georgetown was building a lot of new facilities though.

I also think Yale is overrated.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Actually, I'll confess that you don't know the last thing about academic medicine or clinical research. All of the prolific and successful physicians in academia that I've met here at Stanford are the kind of people who consider their social lives and their research to be equally important. They have a great group of close friends which includes even students, and they often collaborate with each other on publications. This is why (as davidus suggests) developing a rapport with the people you'll meet in medical school and residency is important not only personally, but also for your career. Someone alluded to this earlier, but medicine is a team sport at every level and that's absolutely true.

Perhaps at your prestigious institution, there are many more serious people (like yourself) working in much more competitive fields on much more real research problems. In any case, I can say that I go to one of the best schools in country for biomedical research, and I am glad the people are not like the ones you describe, or I would simply be miserable. Maybe we're so cool because we know that we're the **** and aren't too worried about competing with people from schools like yours, which definitely reside somewhere underneath our noses.

Um, okay. Point taken. You win. (In other news, I have recently been advised not to argue with persons not of sound mind). Besides, tempted as I am to list my credentials in bolstering my case, I will not. I have never and will never post any such details. It seems all of the attacking posts have listed credentials in flawed attempts at point-making. I simply won't.

 

[kikkoman]

Um, okay. Point taken. You win. (In other news, I have recently been advised not to argue with persons not of sound mind).

ohhhhhhhhhhhh. DISSSSSS


See that Stanford_Playah? YOU are not of sound mind!

 

[blump]

Um, okay. Point taken. You win. (In other news, I have recently been advised not to argue with persons not of sound mind). Besides, tempted as I am to list my credentials in bolstering my case, I will not. I have never and will never post any such details. It seems all of the attacking posts have listed credentials in flawed attempts at point-making. I simply won't.

please announce where you are going to med school so we all know

 

[visualwealth]

Wow so many bitter people dissing Yale here... Yale is the best damn medical school in the nation... Best matchlist,best students etc.. The name is also very well noticed around the world!! I did not even know Wash U was a good med program till I started looking on US news!

 

[dynx]

And whoever thinks UChicago in here is OVERrated is really smoking some whack stuff. No school cares LESS about playing the stats game for rankings than UChicago, and no school that is ranked as low as they are has as high of an academic and clinical reputation. They produce OUTSTANDING researchers and reject people with high stats all the time if you are not into academic research. This included me. Got into Duke, Michigan, WashU, Northwestern, and UNC as an out-of-stater but didn't even get an INTERVIEW from UChicago. Do the math. And I know of many like me at my school who have the same story with them.

Thats why I said it's overrated unless you want to do research. I agree that they don't care too much about stats, its the only school that didn't mention my MCAT and asked me relentlessly what kind of research I wanted to do even after I felt I made it clear I had no interest in it. The curriculum is hard science based during the first two years to give more of a research lean rather than a clinical intro going into your clinical years and for the cost, its not any better than good public schools for clinical prep. IF you're doing research its top notch, if not...overrated. My faculty interviewer told me almost the same thing himself when I interviewed there...nice guy.

 

[dynx]

Wow so many bitter people dissing Yale here... Yale is the best damn medical school in the nation... Best matchlist,best students etc.. The name is also very well noticed around the world!! I did not even know Wash U was a good med program till I started looking on US news!

And stanford is the best school in California since I didn't know UCSF was better until i started looking at med schools, nice logic...my friend at Yale said that the students in his class were unimpresive at best....which year are you?

 

[getunconcsious]

Going back to the original question, I'd say that the University of Virginia is quite possibly the most BURDENSOMELY overrated school in the country. And not just the med center,it's everything at UVa. I've lived in C'ville for a bit and UVa just sucks. Anyone who knows about how it really is knows that the undergrad and grad students there are just a bunch of pretentious drunks with big sticks up their butts. And they're obsessed with their irrelevant history. In high school we had to refer to Thomas Jefferson as "Mr. Jefferson" and got in trouble for saying "the state of Virginia"--it had to be the Commonwealth of Virginia.

As for the medical school/clinical facilities, my grandparents still have the misfortune of living in Charlottesville and have gotten apallingly bad care on several occasions. Both Martha Jefferson and the main UVa. hospital are terrible. UT-Houston should definitely be ranked higher.

I'm so sick of the 'Virginia Pride' BS. It's time for the rest of the country to see Virginia for what it is: Part of appalachia, on par with Kentucky, Tennessee, and West Virginia.

 

[RoccoWJ]

WHO CARES?

What exactly does a ranking matter as long as you are happy at the school in which you attend/are planning to attend? Also, if you go to a top 50 school and are unhappy.....what good does that do you.

Rankings are based on a certain weighted criteria, not necessarly the criteria that you consider important. Honestly, let go of the rankings and find a school that you like - thats what interview day is for, right?

 

[firebody]

if you put all the top ten schools and strand them in the middle of the corn fields of kansas, you'll find an abating trend on WashU bashings and most will agree then that it deservedly so belongs in the top three of elite medical schools, behind only Johns Hopkins. a big reason for many of the dislikes about the school is because of its location. all the stupid talk about grade and MCAT whoring doesn't mean crap when you're talking about what type of facilities and opportunities are given to you at that institution. for many of you who have never seen the school (which i assume is a good portion of you making comments) you're missing out on truly seeing what the future of medicine is about. the whole barnes/jewish complex where the med school resides is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!! trust me, in terms of research and advance medicine, and the forthcoming buildings they have being built, WashU will have few if any, places that are better for young students to grow to be in the top of their fields. i know a lot of the reputation that med schools carry are because of the people that teach there or having direct contact to 'legends' of their respective fields along with having the prestigious names (harvard, hopkins). but what's going to happen twenty years from now when those old fogeys are retired and the new generation of nobel laureates are being tauted by WashU money (trust me, that school has plenty of it) to come teach and do research here. WashU is growing into a world renowned place before our eyes, and plenty of idiots here are still worried about why they number ***** or that st. louis sucks. goddamnit people, i've seen every supposed 'top ten med school' in the country aside from UCSF, and as i've stated in the beginning, put them all in the middle of the corn field and you'll have everybody jumping on the WashU bandwagon about how awesome the place is....some people here are so pathetic.







....but if i was accepted to either Johns Hopkins or Harvard Med, i'd drop a WashU acceptance on the spot. i can't have my whole career not having people know where WashU is when they could be saying "You went to HARVARD MED SCHOOL!!!!!" - because i'm superficial like that. don't get me wrong, as i've already stated WashU deserves its ranking (research, clinical, teaching, facilities are all top notch)...but harvard is harvard, and hopkins is hopkins....hehehe

 

[YzIa]

Wow so many bitter people dissing Yale here... Yale is the best damn medical school in the nation... Best matchlist,best students etc.. The name is also very well noticed around the world!! I did not even know Wash U was a good med program till I started looking on US news!

This is more due to your ignorance than Wash U not being world known.

 

[blump]

Thats why I said it's overrated unless you want to do research. I agree that they don't care too much about stats, its the only school that didn't mention my MCAT and asked me relentlessly what kind of research I wanted to do even after I felt I made it clear I had no interest in it. The curriculum is hard science based during the first two years to give more of a research lean rather than a clinical intro going into your clinical years and for the cost, its not any better than good public schools for clinical prep. IF you're doing research its top notch, if not...overrated. My faculty interviewer told me almost the same thing himself when I interviewed there...nice guy.

That is ridiculous. U Chicago has the best clinical exeprience in Chicago. You may not get it in the first two years but youll get it in the 3/4th years

 

[wordson1]

No offence, but I think that's a crock of bull.

According to

http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/trends/cong108dist9603.xls

only two institutions are listed for the congressional district in which Mayo is located, and only one of them is Mayo (the other one is UMinnesota-Mankato)

Frankly, if they want to cheat (and it is cheating) by adding funds from Mayo-Jax and Mayo-Arizona to the pile, this only adds about 13 million more to their NIH funding list, moving them from 42nd to 36th place in this metric:

http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/trends/rnk03all1to100.html

Just changing statistics isn't going to help Mayo rise from its current rank.

what you are saying here in a way makes my point. mayo fails in the numbers game as far as money, and maybe other things too, but my point is that maybe some of these things have too much of an effect on the quality of education that a student would recieve there. of course im sure that they dont have the basic sciences of a harvard or hopkins or others, but what about their extremely smal class size, and thier incredible clinical expereince. the fact that the usnews rates them at 22 would be cause me to call them underrated, desptie thier 40+ rank in research $$

 

[FloridaMadame]

Speaking of overrated and underrated so much that I am just itching to get my hands on the latest US News rankings. Anyone know when the "new" list comes out?
PS> I want to be a numbers *****

 

[Stanford_Playah]

Um, okay. Point taken. You win. (In other news, I have recently been advised not to argue with persons not of sound mind). Besides, tempted as I am to list my credentials in bolstering my case, I will not. I have never and will never post any such details. It seems all of the attacking posts have listed credentials in flawed attempts at point-making. I simply won't.

I think you forgot to use the word "super" in this post.

 

[maygirl]

WHO CARES?

What exactly does a ranking matter as long as you are happy at the school in which you attend/are planning to attend? Also, if you go to a top 50 school and are unhappy.....what good does that do you.

Rankings are based on a certain weighted criteria, not necessarly the criteria that you consider important. Honestly, let go of the rankings and find a school that you like - thats what interview day is for, right?

Thank you! Can't we all just agree that the USNEWS rankings in general are overrated and leave it at that?

 

[GuyLaroche]

I think you forgot to use the word "super" in this post.

I do like the word. It's a very nice word. It's, well, super. I'm sorry I didn't use it in that particular post, as I use it in every other post.

Here's another phrase I like to use: God bless.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Wow so many bitter people dissing Yale here... Yale is the best damn medical school in the nation... Best matchlist,best students etc.. The name is also very well noticed around the world!! I did not even know Wash U was a good med program till I started looking on US news!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the "world" is not going to decide where you go for residency. Residency directors will, and much as I loved Yale myself, it isn't as highly ranked as WashU in the minds of residency directors (see USnews). Besides, Yale students have a history of doing averagely on the boards when compared to schools in their class. But I love Yale. I resepct WashU.

 

[Microhabitats]

Although I am new to this forum, I have already encountered many WashU haters. I actually don't know why. WashU is a FINE FINE institution. Its facilities are phenomenal. Its faculty and students are super friendly. Why do so many people badmouth WashU? Is it because of its average MCAT? Several SDNers argue that WashU "intentionally" uses high MCAT to boost up its ranking. Do you have any SOLID evidence to support it? As a future physician, one should not base his malicious comments on speculation. If WashU is able to recruit many smart students, more power to them. Why are you so angry about it?

 

[GuyLaroche]

Although I am new to this forum, I have already encountered many WashU haters. I actually don't know why. WashU is a FINE FINE institution. Its facilities are phenomenal. Its faculty and students are super friendly. Why do so many people badmouth WashU? Is it because of its average MCAT? Several SDNers argue that WashU "intentionally" uses high MCAT to boost up its ranking. Do you have any SOLID evidence to support it? As a future physician, one should not base his malicious comments on speculation. If WashU is able to recruit many smart students, more power to them. Why are you so angry about it?

I suspect it has something to do with many people not having WashU's numbers. Just my opinion. Don't hate the school 'cause you don't have the numbers.

 

[lavertus]

From last year's USNews, acceptees who actually accept the offer of admission.

Hopkins 119 of 237 (50%)
Harvard 165 of 250 (66%)
WashU 122 of 337 (36%)

 

[Doctor&Geek]

what you are saying here in a way makes my point. mayo fails in the numbers game as far as money, and maybe other things too, but my point is that maybe some of these things have too much of an effect on the quality of education that a student would recieve there. of course im sure that they dont have the basic sciences of a harvard or hopkins or others, but what about their extremely smal class size, and thier incredible clinical expereince. the fact that the usnews rates them at 22 would be cause me to call them underrated, desptie thier 40+ rank in research $$

What goes for the (perhaps undeserved) criticism of Mayo that the institution is fellowship friendly, residency unfriendly may also apply to medical students as well.

I can't go up against the big scholarships they give everyone at Mayo, though ;D.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

From last year's USNews, acceptees who actually accept the offer of admission.

Hopkins 119 of 237 (50%)
Harvard 165 of 250 (66%)
WashU 122 of 337 (36%)

Id be interested to see a sorted list of all the schools if one is available.

Honestly, its not out of random that WashU is hated on SDN. Its because its the biggest poser med school out there. They think they are Harvard/Hopkins, and then they jack up their stats to try and catch up by manipulating their classes around the US News formula. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, WashU is a definitive top 10 school. But when you talk to people affiliated with the school, they make it sound like Harvard or Hopkins. Well, its not, and its not random that WashU is not liked by people on this forum. I mean, does Hopkins have to send out brochures to all high MCAT scorers to recruit? The answer is no.

If WashU had near-average stats for its tier of schools (top 10), then I dont think anyone would hate on them, and it would probably then be called an underrated school.

 

[UT_mikie]

Not that anyone on this thread cares but...

A link on the aamc.org website concerning med school ranking by the USnews.

http://www.academicmedicine.org/cgi/content/abstract/76/10/985

 

[Supernova]

Not that anyone on this thread cares but...

A link on the aamc.org website concerning med school ranking by the USnews.

http://www.academicmedicine.org/cgi/content/abstract/76/10/985

too bad, my school didn't subscribe to Academic Medicine so I don't get to see the fulltext.

 

[dynx]

That is ridiculous. U Chicago has the best clinical exeprience in Chicago. You may not get it in the first two years but youll get it in the 3/4th years

ummmm..."in chicago" yeah its great...by the way UCIrvine has the best clinical training in Irvine...what does that have to do with national ranking.

 

[firebody]

Id be interested to see a sorted list of all the schools if one is available.

Honestly, its not out of random that WashU is hated on SDN. Its because its the biggest poser med school out there. They think they are Harvard/Hopkins, and then they jack up their stats to try and catch up by manipulating their classes around the US News formula. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, WashU is a definitive top 10 school. But when you talk to people affiliated with the school, they make it sound like Harvard or Hopkins. Well, its not, and its not random that WashU is not liked by people on this forum. I mean, does Hopkins have to send out brochures to all high MCAT scorers to recruit? The answer is no.

If WashU had near-average stats for its tier of schools (top 10), then I dont think anyone would hate on them, and it would probably then be called an underrated school.

another idiot who probably has never seen the institution. trust me, WashU is not overrated. the reason for the heavy recruiting the school pushes out is because the majority of people out there have no clue where the school is or that WashU is a terrific med school. And the only reason this is so is because of location. how else are they planning on bringing people in? like i said previously, put all the med schools in the same place and judge from there which is tops and you'll have everyone saying how great the school is. dude, unless you've actually seen the place in person and realized what fantastic facilities, research, etc. coming out of there, all your opinions are garbage. WashU is building itself into the mecca for medicine in the midwest and calling it a 'poser med school' proves your idiocy....the only thing negative about the school is just that it's in the midwest. you clearly have no clue as to what you're talking about. are you seriously thinking the school is overrated because some students act like it's harvard?? wow, what great logic you have there! as far as all med schools go, only one in my mind can beat the medical complex that they have there....and the scary thing is that it's only going to get better and bigger with the BioMed21 project they have going for the 21st century. it's absolutely crazy seeing the potential that the school can become, and this is me downplaying how i really feel.