overseas anesthesia?

[jeesapeesa]

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has anyone ever done anesthesia overseas (UK, Scandinavia, Netherlands)? if so, is the process of maybe working overseas a few years even doable? love my current PP job right now but looking for something different maybe for a few years. i don't care about the pay cut but looking to experience something different. no kids, no SO, just alot of time on my hands. thanks.

 

[Mikkel]

I'm curious, wondering about Aus/NZ as well.

 

[caligas]

Check out Arab Emerites, big money and you can ski indoors there.

 

[B-Bone]

My understanding is that most other developed countries (UK, EU, Australia, NZ, even Canada) require more training than we have and require at least some very onerous, year(s)-long period of training or observation to be able to work independently. there are some places that have special need-based programs where they might let you slide with US board certification. Don't know about middle east/asia.

 

[norski]

If going to Scandinavia, decide which country you want to go to, learn the language beforehand, prepare for some insane bureaucratic machine, and if all goes well, you can do whatever you want. Any anesthesiologist and nurse anesthetist in either Denmark, Norway or Sweden would be able to communicate with you(in English), as an attending, easily, however some of the elderly or immigrant patient population would have you struggle.

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[Mikkel]

If going to Scandinavia, decide which country you want to go to, learn the language beforehand, prepare for some insane bureaucratic machine, and if all goes well, you can do whatever you want. Any anesthesiologist and nurse anesthetist in either Denmark, Norway or Sweden would be able to communicate with you(in English), as an attending, easily, however some of the elderly or immigrant patient population would have you struggle.

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I'd just plan on using an interpreter, especially if it's a country where there's more than one official language, and especially if English is one of them.

 

[deleted697535]

Yes. your training is likely too short by about 2 to 3 years for any English speaking country eg UK Ireland Oz nz

You might get a job as a senior resident for a few years pending sitting their exams but exams are very different. Some would say vastly harder. 6 out 10 pgy6-8 residents fail the UK exam each sitting for the last few years

Pay is very very low compared to what your used to too unless you land a sweet private gig but chances are slim

 

[nimbus]

I'd just plan on using an interpreter, especially if it's a country where there's more than one official language, and especially if English is one of them.

Imagine if a non-English speaking doctor wanted to move to the United States and planned to use an interpreter.

 

[nimbus]

Check out Arab Emerites, big money and you can ski indoors there.

Out of curiosity I talked to a recruiter 2years ago and that wasn’t the case. The income was the same as California.

 

[deleted697127]

Check out Arab Emerites, big money and you can ski indoors there.

Lol. Come on? Moving somewhere to ski indoors. How long can that be interesting for.

 

[deleted697127]

has anyone ever done anesthesia overseas (UK, Scandinavia, Netherlands)? if so, is the process of maybe working overseas a few years even doable? love my current PP job right now but looking for something different maybe for a few years. i don't care about the pay cut but looking to experience something different. no kids, no SO, just alot of time on my hands. thanks.

I would check with your old program director or chair and see if they know anyone that’s done it. Underrated benefit of going to a program with international presence but i don’t think it’s as difficult as this thread is making it seem if you work your connections.

We had a guy come speak at grand rounds in residency that would call up departments or connections. I vaguely remember him saying he successfully proposed trading services with another attending and had also successfully arranged opportunities with academic departments framed as sabbaticals. He encouraged any of us interested to seek it out if serious. Can’t hurt to ask.

 

[woopedazz]

SIMG assessment process - ANZCA

The Australian and New Zealand College of Anaesthetists (ANZCA) is the professional organisation for around 6400 specialist anaesthetists (Fellows) and 1500 anaesthetists in training (trainees). One of Australasia's largest specialist medical colleges, ANZCA is responsible for the training...

www.anzca.edu.au

Page 107 for anaesthesia

https://www.medicalboard.gov.au/documents/default.aspx?record=WD18%2f25266&dbid=AP&chksum=irv2E5MCwfwCFm4bbh0ykg%3d%3d

Regulation 23 (recognition as a specialist)

http://www.anzca.edu.au/documents/regulation-23.pdf

Map of all successful SIMG candidates in Anaesthesia for 2018.

 

[Mikkel]

Imagine if a non-English speaking doctor wanted to move to the United States and planned to use an interpreter.

It's funny though, if an illegal immigrant comes to the US, a taxpayer funded interpreter is required by law.

 

[dhb]

Check out Arab Emerites, big money and you can ski indoors there.

Not great for singles

 

[NicMouse64]

Not great for singles

gay singles, especially

 

[deleted162650]

Not great for singles

If your turn-ons happen to be eyes and hands it probably isn’t so bad.

 

[jeesapeesa]

If going to Scandinavia, decide which country you want to go to, learn the language beforehand, prepare for some insane bureaucratic machine, and if all goes well, you can do whatever you want. Any anesthesiologist and nurse anesthetist in either Denmark, Norway or Sweden would be able to communicate with you(in English), as an attending, easily, however some of the elderly or immigrant patient population would have you struggle.

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yes, i am especially interested in UK, scandinavia/northern europe where english is somewhat spoken (netherlands/belgium) but i am also interested in learning a new language(s). i will look into the process, but by "insane bureaucratic machine" i'm assuming that you mean obtaining a license and actually getting a consultant job. thanks for the info.

 

[deleted162650]

If you’re just interested in the experience, it may be easiest to go over as trainee/fellow of some sort. One of my partners spent time in NZ. I’ll ask him about the details, but I think it was through his CT fellowship.

 

[abolt18]

I have one attending that went to Switzerland for a couple years to practice after finishing his residency/fellowship. I believe it was "sponsored" by the institution that he worked at while there. It was set up through a residency connection (not at my residency, but his own).

 

[deleted162650]

I have one attending that went to Switzerland

I heard you can ski outdoors there.

 

[dhb]

I heard you can ski outdoors there.

 

[chocomorsel]

They have locums companies that recruit physicians for this and help you with all the paperwork. For OZ and NZ anyway. It’s not so bad really the paperwork, and I have a friend from medical school who did OZ for two years. The pay was a little lower but not peanuts and there was a long process of orientation if I recall. But no extra training. She’s an ER doc. She had a blast.

 

[Twiggidy]

I mean, we have it quite good working in the US system no matter how much we complain about it. I might just find a job that gives me 8-10 weeks vacation or become a full time locums and just vacation to Europe more often if I were single with no kids, rather than move and go through a even more bureaucratic system and make less money.

 

[norski]

yes, i am especially interested in UK, scandinavia/northern europe where english is somewhat spoken (netherlands/belgium) but i am also interested in learning a new language(s). i will look into the process, but by "insane bureaucratic machine" i'm assuming that you mean obtaining a license and actually getting a consultant job. thanks for the info.

That's pretty much it. I know Norwegian bureaucracy can be tough to work through for foreign medical and nursing graduates, but at least it's somewhat standardized. The trouble is, you absolutely have to know the language (professional level Norwegian, which is tested) in order to work in our system, and to get board certified as a specialist, which will net you about 100-120k a year. Before tax. Seeing what you can make over in the states, you'll have to stretch your math quite a bit for that to be a sensible thing to do. Other than that, Norway, along with its neighbors, is a rich, first world country,with all the costs of living that entails.

Btw, don't know if this is covered or not, but anes residency is five years (3.5 years of anesthetic practice at a regional/local hospitalwith ICU/pain built in, then 18 months at a university hospital), after 18 months of internship and six years of med school. I believe it's the same in Sweden and Denmark. ACTA intensivist fellowships are at least honored. That's all I know.

Norwegian shouldn't be a particularly difficult language to learn, as an English speaker, as we have about a fifth of the words English contains, it's more of a nuance and context game.


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[dhb]

will net you about 100-120k a year. Before tax.

I hardly believe Norwegian anesthesiologists are taking home 5k per month post tax. That's like minimum wage up there.

 

[norski]

I hardly believe Norwegian anesthesiologists are taking home 5k per month post tax. That's like minimum wage up there.

No it's not. 120k usd is about 1 million NOK, which is considered a decent income over here. Crna pay, which will be my ballpark in a couple of months, is about half that(income taxes at about 40%). Taxes at incomes as high as a million are extreme over here, very close to 50% on your income. You may get a few buffs here and there, but no specialist doctor i know or know of, makes significantly more than that, if all outside engagements are excluded. Meaning, for an anesthesiologist, PP (dental, plastics, etc), locums and air ambulance duty. The govt job, as that's what it is, is anywhere from 35-90 hours a week, depending on location.

My wife (unmentioned medical specialty in high demand) and I will barely touch 200k next year. It is what it is.

Respect? Yes, if you're not an idiot. Anesthesiologists are extremely important specialists. Money? Go to Dubai, or stay in the States.




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[deleted697535]

If it's money then stay in the states. You guys are paid more than almost any anesthesiologists in the English speaking world anyway on average. Some in the UK or aus might have a sweet private gig set up but most make 200k or so.

 

[dhb]

Money? Go to Dubai, or stay in the States.

Several countries pay much more than Dubai in Western Europe. In the US the average pay is higher.

 

[deleted171991]

If it's money then stay in the states. You guys are paid more than almost any anesthesiologists in the English speaking world anyway on average. Some in the UK or aus might have a sweet private gig set up but most make 200k or so.

We also work much more. If you calculate the hourly rate and the stress supervising 3-4 rooms, plus the malpractice risk, you'll see that it's not such a great deal.