P=MD, the Most Glorious Equation

[Hemorrage]

what i have yet to understand is how anyone has the energy to study 8-10 hours AFTER class? We have mandatory labs and other stupid seminars starting at 9 and usually ending around 4-5pm. By then i'm dead tired and i get home and crash for 2-3 hours before studying. Now when i wake up, i feel like a snail and it takes me a while to ramp up.. i was in incredibly good shape (14-15% BF) before starting school and now my brain uses up all my energy.

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[dudeliness]

There is also an app that can lock certain frequently used websites while you are studying, I forget the name but you can Google it.

I think you THINK you're studying that long but you're really not. Even then you should be incorporating good breaks.

Ironically enough, the name of the app is self-control.

I am in my second year, and while I passed all my classes in first year, I have regrettably had a very difficult time keeping myself on task enough to get much solid study time. It hasn't been a big deal, as I've passed everything so far, but it is frustrating to know that if I could just get myself to focus better I could do better in my classes without even having to spend more time at school.
Having ADHD doesn't help much, but there have been times (usually the weekend before an exam ) that I have successfully focused. Just can't seem to get myself to stay on top of it if the pressure isn't on. Lol

 

[DermViser]

what i have yet to understand is how anyone has the energy to study 8-10 hours AFTER class? We have mandatory labs and other stupid seminars starting at 9 and usually ending around 4-5pm. By then i'm dead tired and i get home and crash for 2-3 hours before studying. Now when i wake up, i feel like a snail and it takes me a while to ramp up.. i was in incredibly good shape (14-15% BF) before starting school and now my brain uses up all my energy.

Many med schools only have basic science lecture classes only from 8 am to 12 pm.

 

[Psai]

Brs wasnt for me. I used thieme atlas and umich mostly

 

[mcloaf]

Brs wasnt for me. I used thieme atlas and umich mostly

Thieme team for life.

 

[Kaustikos]

what i have yet to understand is how anyone has the energy to study 8-10 hours AFTER class? We have mandatory labs and other stupid seminars starting at 9 and usually ending around 4-5pm. By then i'm dead tired and i get home and crash for 2-3 hours before studying. Now when i wake up, i feel like a snail and it takes me a while to ramp up.. i was in incredibly good shape (14-15% BF) before starting school and now my brain uses up all my energy.

You study during class with earplugs. That's what I did during second year when they tried making attendance mandatory. Or I took a nap behind my laptop. It's all about efficiency.

 

[DermViser]

Brs wasnt for me. I used thieme atlas and umich mostly

For the NBME Shelf exam? Wow, you definitely like to walk on the wild side.

 

[Frazier]

There's nothing necessarily wrong with coming to terms with the fact you will be an "average" (or even below average) med student.

...but the follow up bit of "looks like it is FM in kansas/north dakota/etc for me " ....is pretty melodramatic and cliché.

As others noted, you very likely won't be a derm/plastics/ent resident in 4 years, but there are plenty of other viable options.

 

[operaman]

What makes me most concerned for the OP is the attitude that 8-10 hours a day is too much; 12-14 hours a day if we include 4 hours of class per day. Yes, doing well takes a LOT of work and M1 is by far the lightest workload of the first 3 years; it only gets worse. M2 is generally heavier AND you're having to think about Step 1 on the horizon. The poor third years are spending 12-14 hours in the hospital and THEN having to go home exhausted and bang out a couple hours of studying before falling asleep on the couch! Fourth year is pretty chill, not gonna lie, but then I look at the residents and they're working some insane hours and still expected to read and study (the residency forum here is full of stories of people who didn't and are facing possible termination for poor knowledge base). I look at many of my attending mentors and sometimes they work more than the residents -- no work hour restrictions at their level!

I'm not sure what the OP thought medicine was going to be, but hard work and long hours should have been understood from the get go. P=MD is for those people who are working 12-14 hours a day and still not able to break the mean; for some, it's all they can do just to stay afloat. The difference between them and OP is that they ARE putting in the work, and work ethic will take you a long way. Laziness is just a disease that will continue to haunt you.

 

[Señor S]

Study 12-14 hours a day? What does that even mean? Are there people out there who can actually remain mentally alert and focused enough to study meaningfully for 14 hours a day, day in and day out? Just being in the library or having a book open is not the same thing as studying.

 

[circulus vitios]

My spirit animal for med school:

 

[Mad Jack]

I give up, these kids are just too damn smart to compete with, in order to get honors I would have to study like 8-10 hrs a day, everyday. Pretty much accepted the fact im destined for uncompetitive low ranked residencies and its time to make peace with it - family medicine in rural Kansas here I come. I wish I was smarter, but genetics are genetics- you can't do much about that.

It's all about board scores dude. No one cares about your HP/H in first-year anatomy if you've got solid clinical grades and board scores.

 

[Venonat]

What makes me most concerned for the OP is the attitude that 8-10 hours a day is too much; 12-14 hours a day if we include 4 hours of class per day. Yes, doing well takes a LOT of work and M1 is by far the lightest workload of the first 3 years; it only gets worse. M2 is generally heavier AND you're having to think about Step 1 on the horizon. The poor third years are spending 12-14 hours in the hospital and THEN having to go home exhausted and bang out a couple hours of studying before falling asleep on the couch! Fourth year is pretty chill, not gonna lie, but then I look at the residents and they're working some insane hours and still expected to read and study (the residency forum here is full of stories of people who didn't and are facing possible termination for poor knowledge base). I look at many of my attending mentors and sometimes they work more than the residents -- no work hour restrictions at their level!

I'm not sure what the OP thought medicine was going to be, but hard work and long hours should have been understood from the get go. P=MD is for those people who are working 12-14 hours a day and still not able to break the mean; for some, it's all they can do just to stay afloat. The difference between them and OP is that they ARE putting in the work, and work ethic will take you a long way. Laziness is just a disease that will continue to haunt you.

Doesn't that depend on the rotation though? I know people on surgery rotation who work brutal hours, and people on pediatrics who work 8-4.

 

[Mad Jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gNqQL-1gZF8#t=209

The koala is my spirit animal for medical school. Because I feel straight up ******ed right now.

 

[sinombre]

It's all about board scores dude. No one cares about your HP/H in first-year anatomy if you've got solid clinical grades and board scores.

This is true, but the likelihood of doing well on step 1 if you can't handle studying 8-10 hours a day probably approaches zero.

That said, the ability to study for long periods of time is an acquired skill for most. It took me at least 3 or 4 months and a couple of giant 8 week block exams before I became comfortable studying as much as I need to.

 

[Promethean]

I will never understand this attitude. "In order to get a grade indicating I worked hard, I have to work hard. But I don't want to work hard, because it's hard work!"

I think it is the result of rampant grade inflation in undergrad. I'd always heard O Chem was such a killer course, but in my class, which was completely made up of pre-med, pre-PA, and pre-dents, A's were way more common than Bs and Cs. No one failed. The exams basically curved so that the lowest score was passing, and the few people who would have gotten an A anyway ended up with extra credit. The professor straight said that he didn't want to be responsible for anyone not acheiving their dreams.

Going from that environment to a situation where Honors really means Honors is a shock to the system.

 

[Mad Jack]

I will never understand this attitude. "In order to get a grade indicating I worked hard, I have to work hard. But I don't want to work hard, because it's hard work!"

People complain too damn much. I'd much rather put in the work now and have it pay off in the long run.

I wish I could like some posts twice.

 

[operaman]

Doesn't that depend on the rotation though? I know people on surgery rotation who work brutal hours, and people on pediatrics who work 8-4.

Oh yeah, definitely, though even 8-4 is still an 8 hour day and you'll need to do some shelf study/read up on patients afterward.

 

[DrEnderW]

LOL at studying medicine at a desk for 8hrs a day being too grueling.

Put those hours in perspective. You could study 8am-12pm, take a 2.5hr break for lunch and the gym, and then study from 2:30-6:30 and hit 8 hours. I can't relate in any way to that schedule being grueling. You'd have 6 hours between 6:30pm-12:20am for leisure.

Even if you have 8am-12pm class, you could study for 8hrs with 2 hours of breaks for meals and still be done at 8pm. Clearly this may not happen on lab days, but most US schools don't have mandatory class until 5pm multiple times a week.

 

[Solais]

What is it with DO schools giving exams every week? I'm noticing a pattern. It's absolutely nuts.

At my particular DO school (which if any of my classmates are reading they will instantly know) our test schedule next week is:

Mon: OPP written and practical midterm
Tues: cardio final, ekg/auscultation final
Wed: respiratory and endo final
Fri: Clinical reasoning midterm

 

[Mad Jack]

LOL at studying medicine at a desk for 8hrs a day being too grueling.

I feel like any of the kids complaining about studying 8 hours a day should have to do a week of hard labor for as many hours as they'd be studying. Then let's see them come back and complain about how hard studying is.

 

[Jabbed]

All this business about 8-10 hours a day being the key to success is a huge exaggeration (at least for the first year material). Sure it's a lot of info, but it's all very doable with basic time management. Everyone that I know who puts in 10 hour days leading up to the exam tends to cruise by during the content weeks with minimal study hours. Three to four passes of the lecture notes and a review of the reading material BEFORE you start studying for the test is enough to get the top quartile (at my school), and doesn't require an 8 hour daily commitment.

 

[Señor S]

All this business about 8-10 hours a day being the key to success is a huge exaggeration (at least for the first year material). Sure it's a lot of info, but it's all very doable with basic time management. Everyone that I know who puts in 10 hour days leading up to the exam tends to cruise by during the content weeks with minimal study hours. Three to four passes of the lecture notes and a review of the reading material BEFORE you start studying for the test is enough to get the top quartile (at my school), and doesn't require an 8 hour daily commitment.

I agree. But then again, my school is not exactly Johns Hopkins. Maybe things are different at the top-tier places?

 

[EMDO2018]

Hard labor isn't emotionally and mentally draining, digging ditches for 8 hrs < or = Studying for 8 hrs. Today we have 6 hrs of class, 2hrs anatomy lecture 2 hrs anatomy lab= 8-12, then that complete waste of time know as " practice of medicine" for 2 hrs in the after noon, add in commuting time and I don't get home until 3pm, studying for 8hrs, even if I did it continuously, I would only be done by 11pm, I still have to eat, shower, get ready for the next day etc. And when studying for the boards after M2, of course studying 8hrs a day is light work if you have nothing else to do that day.

 

[touchpause13]

Hard labor isn't emotionally and mentally draining, digging ditches for 8 hrs < or = Studying for 8 hrs. Today we have 6 hrs of class, 2hrs anatomy lecture 2 hrs anatomy lab 8-12, then that complete waste of time know as " practice of medicine" for 2 hrs in the after noon, add in commuting time and I don't get home until 3pm, studying for 8hrs, even if I did it continuously, I would only be done by 11pm, I still have to eat, shower, get ready for the next day etc. And when studying for the boards after M2, of course studying 8hrs a day is light work if you have nothing else to do that day.

I count class time as study time. As long as you are learning it counts. I don't go to class if I don't have to though. I can get through the material so much faster on my own.

 

[Jabbed]

I agree. But then again, my school is not exactly Johns Hopkins. Maybe things are different at the top-tier places?

Well, if you're at a top tier place, there is no ranking lol

 

[DrEnderW]

Today we have 6 hrs of class, 2hrs anatomy lecture 2 hrs anatomy lab= 8-12, then that complete waste of time know as " practice of medicine" for 2 hrs in the after noon, add in commuting time and I don't get home until 3pm, studying for 8hrs, even if I did it continuously, I would only be done by 11pm, I still have to eat, shower, get ready for the next day etc.

You have that schedule every weekday??

I have a similar day to that 1x a week and obviously no one is advocating studying 8-10hrs starting at 4pm on those days. I'm sure a lot of people would consider mandatory in-class or lab time as time spent studying/learning as well.

 

[Psai]

Hard labor isn't emotionally and mentally draining, digging ditches for 8 hrs < or = Studying for 8 hrs. Today we have 6 hrs of class, 2hrs anatomy lecture 2 hrs anatomy lab= 8-12, then that complete waste of time know as " practice of medicine" for 2 hrs in the after noon, add in commuting time and I don't get home until 3pm, studying for 8hrs, even if I did it continuously, I would only be done by 11pm, I still have to eat, shower, get ready for the next day etc. And when studying for the boards after M2, of course studying 8hrs a day is light work if you have nothing else to do that day.

Practice of medicine is a waste of time?
Son if you don't want to learn how to practice medicine then drop out and do something else.
If you don't pay attention now, you will be thrown onto the wards and be awful at taking a history and doing a physical. No one holds your hand in third year.
That class is probably the most important class in the preclinical years. How are you going to diagnose someone if you can't get a story out of someone and organize it properly?
You can memorize all the basic science crap you want but it won't be worth a hill of beans if you can't apply it. Also, don't comment on board studying when you barely started medical school.

 

[circulus vitios]

I feel like any of the kids complaining about studying 8 hours a day should have to do a week of hard labor for as many hours as they'd be studying. Then let's see them come back and complain about how hard studying is.

I did hard labor in a sweatbox. Not on the level of coal mining, but it was still more fun than studying for 8 hours a day...

 

[touchpause13]

Putting in 8 to 10 hours a day of work is not that hard. That still leaves plenty of time to eat, sleep, work out, and spend time with friends.

 

[Venonat]

Putting in 8 to 10 hours a day of work is not that hard. That still leaves plenty of time to eat, sleep, work out, and spend time with friends.

It's not the hours you put in, it's what you put into the hours. If you phone it in and just casually read stuff for 8-10 hours, you will no longer be a medical student. It's that simple.

If you want to survive med school, you can't be passive. You need to be a leader, worker, and QA analyst all in one. You need to constantly assay what you are doing and how well you are doing it, constantly interrogate yourself to see what you know and don't know, and more.

That's what makes med school stressful. Not the hours.

I feel like any of the kids complaining about studying 8 hours a day should have to do a week of hard labor for as many hours as they'd be studying. Then let's see them come back and complain about how hard studying is.

I actually did manual labor in a warehouse for a summer before I went to medical school. It's easier than med school.

 

[Mad Jack]

I did hard labor in a sweatbox. Not on the level of coal mining, but it was still more fun than studying for 8 hours a day...

I put in 8 hours a day on the night shift in a cold storage warehouse for a few months. It was like hell, but cold as ice. All of my coworkers were ex-convicts except one, so the place was like a zoo. I'll take studying over that any day.

 

[PL198]

I will never understand this attitude. "In order to get a grade indicating I worked hard, I have to work hard. But I don't want to work hard, because it's hard work!"

People complain too damn much. I'd much rather put in the work now and have it pay off in the long run.

Stop, you're being logical, we can't have any of that around here

 

[EMDO2018]

You have that schedule every weekday??

I have a similar day to that 1x a week and obviously no one is advocating studying 8-10hrs starting at 4pm on those days. I'm sure a lot of people would consider mandatory in-class or lab time as time spent studying/learning as well.

Anatomy lectures aren't mandatory per se, but the way its set up 1hr lecture, 2 hrs lab, 1 hr lecture, I may as well go because if I don't show up to lab and help the "team" dissect, hissy fits are thrown.

We only have POM once or twice a week, but it does take away from our study time. We have one more anatomy test, then the final, then NBME all in the next two weeks, I know learning to take a history is important, but if I don't pass first year i'll never use the stuff in POM anyway so they should lets us out so we can study. The stuff they teach us in that class can be learned in two weeks before M3.

Practice of medicine is a waste of time?
Son if you don't want to learn how to practice medicine then drop out and do something else.
If you don't pay attention now, you will be thrown onto the wards and be awful at taking a history and doing a physical. No one holds your hand in third year.
That class is probably the most important class in the preclinical years. How are you going to diagnose someone if you can't get a story out of someone and organize it properly?
You can memorize all the basic science crap you want but it won't be worth a hill of beans if you can't apply it. Also, don't comment on board studying when you barely started medical school.

 

[Ophthoseidon]

What I think is sad is when people think studying 8 hours in 1 day is somehow difficult. Do you know how you'll be studying for boards? A lot longer than 8 hours a day that's for sure.

It's hard to go home and study 8 hours everyday after being in mandatory class 8-4

 

[PL198]

what i have yet to understand is how anyone has the energy to study 8-10 hours AFTER class? We have mandatory labs and other stupid seminars starting at 9 and usually ending around 4-5pm. By then i'm dead tired and i get home and crash for 2-3 hours before studying. Now when i wake up, i feel like a snail and it takes me a while to ramp up.. i was in incredibly good shape (14-15% BF) before starting school and now my brain uses up all my energy.

I mean if it was easy everyone would do it... However I doubt most people that get honors are doing that after class. I'd say that most honors people do 8 high quality hours of study time every day, including class. Bottom of the pack might study just as much time wise as the people at the top, but the bottom people are on facebook, phone on vibrate, buddies coming over seeing whats up, etc etc. You don't see any of that with the studs. When they're studying, they're studying.

 

[Psai]

No it can't. It takes a lot of time and practice to do it well

 

[PL198]

It's hard to go home and study 8 hours everyday after being in mandatory class 8-4

That counts then if you are making good use of your time. If you actually focus from 8-4 and then do 2-3 hours when you get home, you should know the crap pretty well.

 

[Mad Jack]

I mean if it was easy everyone would do it... However I doubt most people that get honors are doing that after class. I'd say that most honors people do 8 high quality hours of study time every day, including class. Bottom of the pack might study just as much time wise as the people at the top, but the bottom people are on facebook, phone on vibrate, buddies coming over seeing whats up, etc etc. You don't see any of that with the studs. When they're studying, they're studying.

Some people also just retain information better than others, plus some people pick up some subjects better than others. I can do in 2 hours of studying what takes some classmates 8 hours if it is higher level integrated concepts (2nd and 3rd order material). But for me to get anatomy to stick takes me hours longer than my peers- I suck at mindless memorization.

 

[demayette]

Some people also just retain information better than others, plus some people pick up some subjects better than others. I can do in 2 hours of studying what takes some classmates 8 hours if it is higher level integrated concepts (2nd and 3rd order material). But for me to get anatomy to stick takes me hours longer than my peers- I suck at mindless memorization.

You must have scored pretty well in the MCAT then because the MCAT is pretty much 3rd and 4th order material... Med school overall is mostly 1st and 2nd order material, but it's a lot of it...

 

[Mad Jack]

You must have scored pretty well in the MCAT then because the MCAT is pretty much 3rd and 4th order material... Med school overall is mostly 1st and 2nd order material, but it's a lot of it...

I had a balanced 35- I'm great with higher order material and integrating concepts. But med school is nothing but endless minutiae so far, so I'm having a bit of trouble adjusting.

 

[circulus vitios]

I don't understand how people can maintain 8 hours of studying on top of other things (lecture, preparation for standardized patient interviews or cases, extracurricular activities, day-to-day activities) for years on end. I think I'll wallow in mediocrity -- at least I'll stay sane.

 

[notbobtrustme]

You must have scored pretty well in the MCAT then because the MCAT is pretty much 3rd and 4th order material... Med school overall is mostly 1st and 2nd order material, but it's a lot of it...

MCAT is a cleverly disguised reading comprehension test.

 

[username456789]

Going from that environment to a situation where Honors really means Honors is a shock to the system.

Except that, in a lot of medical schools, somewhere between 20 and 40% of students get honors in any given class or rotation. Might as well be handing out participation trophies.

 

[DermViser]

I think it is the result of rampant grade inflation in undergrad. I'd always heard O Chem was such a killer course, but in my class, which was completely made up of pre-med, pre-PA, and pre-dents, A's were way more common than Bs and Cs. No one failed. The exams basically curved so that the lowest score was passing, and the few people who would have gotten an A anyway ended up with extra credit. The professor straight said that he didn't want to be responsible for anyone not acheiving their dreams.

Going from that environment to a situation where Honors really means Honors is a shock to the system.

Aw, that's nice of him. Quite unusual though.

 

[DermViser]

Except that, in a lot of medical schools, somewhere between 20 and 40% of students get honors in any given class or rotation. Might as well be handing out participation trophies.

What percentage of the class should be limited to getting Honors do you think?

 

[DermViser]

I agree. But then again, my school is not exactly Johns Hopkins. Maybe things are different at the top-tier places?

Top tier places are true P/F to begin with.

 

[Kaustikos]

I kind of chuckle. Just wait until third year when you're inpatient or surgery. 12 hour days with maybe evening study time. Even outpatient can be brutal.
You better learn fast how to be efficient. The argument that you need to study garners no sympathy in the hospital

 

[KnuxNole]

Study 12-14 hours a day? What does that even mean? Are there people out there who can actually remain mentally alert and focused enough to study meaningfully for 14 hours a day, day in and day out? Just being in the library or having a book open is not the same thing as studying.

Honestly, I've NEVER met anyone in med school to do this. I know I would drop out in 2 secs if I did that. Spending 12 hours in a day studying never occurred in the 4 years of med school by far.....the only reason I would think to even try to attempt something catastrophic like this is cramming for the exam. However, the night before, is the worst time to cram and light review + getting adequate rest was the much better option.

For most people in this topic, it seems 8 hours of studying isn't bad or doesn't phase them. I might be in the minority, but it is something I wish to never experience again. The only time that occurred was for Step 1 studying, and it was mental hell. If I did that for med school classes, my mentality would collapse. Most people here could probably handle it, but for an individual like myself, I wouldn't have lasted. Also, sitting STILL and studying for 4 hours at one block never worked for me. I can only sit still for 1-2 hour sessions before needing 1-2 hour breaks....I do commend those people who say they can study from 8am-12pm. For me, I need a break from 8-10 or with a 15-20 break from 8-9 :/. Then again, once again, I wasn't the typical med student.

 

[circulus vitios]

I kind of chuckle. Just wait until third year when you're inpatient or surgery. 12 hour days with maybe evening study time. Even outpatient can be brutal.
You better learn fast how to be efficient. The argument that you need to study garners no sympathy in the hospital

It's easier working for 12 hours and then coming home to study for a few hours than it is to study for 8-12 hours.

edit: And before you ask, I've done both.