PA-S to MD??

[smallshot]

So heres my story...

When I applied for college, I never thought attending medical school would cross my mind. I did well in high school, but I never tried, never applied myself so I never even considered it an option to that point. I doubted myself because I didn't know what I was capable of. I knew I was interested in doing something health-care related and had recently discovered the PA profession. I figured if I put the time and effort in it would be my best option so I entered a 5 year PA program BS/MS. When I got to college I started to work hard and did very well in my 3 years of undergrad compiling a 3.97 gpa.

I saw how much my hard work was paying off and sophomore year I started considering med school. The decision consumed my mind for months on end. However, at that point I hadn't had enough experience out in the field to really get a feel for the professions. I read up on forums, spoke to my doctor and the PA faculty at school, and talked to many of my science professors. One of them told me if that if I really wanted to go to med school, I would just know when the time is right. Well, I wanted to pull the trigger, change my major to pre-med and go start taking my extra classes, but I couldn't. I wasn't confident enough that it was the right decision for me at that point in time. Then fall of junior year I became an ED scribe and the experience was incredible. The amount of knowledge I complied was irreplaceable. Regardless, I had a better picture at this point of PA vs. MD, but was still unsure what I wanted.

So I played it safe and stayed in the PA program. I started the didactic year my 4th year of college and am just finishing up now with a 3.6 gpa in the PA program (I have a 90+ in every module, our grading scale just seems bizzare; I have a 3.85 between undergrad/PA school) and start clinical rotations on July 8th. However, now more than ever I feel the urge to go to medical school. I feel more confident that it's what I want to do, especially after having my experience in the ED and in the classroom of PA school. My professor's advice about knowing when the time is right seems to be coming to fruition. I want to go back for many reasons like the desire to expand my knowledge, autonomy, advancement, etc.

I talked to admissions at several schools and they encouraged me to finish out PA school (rather than stopping right now and start preparing) for the experience and because it would help separate my application from the pack.

So here's my situation:
1) Would it be (and if so how bad) detrimental to my application if I stopped PA school now and started preparing for the classes I need? How would this be viewed upon by admissions?

2) Let's say I want to take classes immediately after I finish PA school. I graduate from the PA program in August 2014 when I'll be 23. I still need to take 2 semesters of physics, organic chem II, calc and MCAT. Is there any chance in hell I'd be able to complete the admissions process for Fall 2015 or is it going to have to wait until Fall 2016? And when I go back and take these classes after PA school, is it even worth trying to find a part time job or should I just focus on classes and MCAT preparation?

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[jayoh]

So here's my situation:
1) Would it be (and if so how bad) detrimental to my application if I stopped PA school now and started preparing for the classes I need? How would this be viewed upon by admissions?

2) Let's say I want to take classes immediately after I finish PA school. I graduate from the PA program in August 2014 when I'll be 23. I still need to take 2 semesters of physics, organic chem II, calc and MCAT. Is there any chance in hell I'd be able to complete the admissions process for Fall 2015 or is it going to have to wait until Fall 2016? And when I go back and take these classes after PA school, is it even worth trying to find a part time job or should I just focus on classes and MCAT preparation?

1) In my humble opinion, if you do well on the MCAT, you will have no trouble getting in to med school, even if you drop the PA program right now. It's not like you failed, and you have a pretty legitimate reason for dropping it. I can understand the idea that it looks bad not to finish a grad program, but this seems like a different situation to me.

2) Do you mean that you'll be done August 2014, and you also want to apply in 2014, for the entering class of 2015? If that's what you mean, that won't really be possible. It should take you two semesters and a couple of months to knock out the MCAT.

 

[jayoh]

I feel like I should add that the MCAT is definitely no joke, and I'm sure there are a lot of very smart people who have jumped to pre-med only to find that they can't break 30 on the MCAT.

 

[1012526fs]

As a currently practicing PA, now applying to med school, I would still recommend completing your program, regardless of the route you take afterwards. Life can throw you curves, and you don't want to burn that plan-B bridge.

But like jayoh said, the MCAT is no joke, regardless of intelligence. Don't try to work full time, go to school full or part time, and study for the MCAT all at once as I did. It will bite you in the butt. Good luck!

 

[Aminex]

Don't quit the PA program. Just don't. I "dabbled" in a Master's program in I/O psychology here, a cytotechnology program there, etc. and it has become the biggest academic liability in my life. Now, no admissions committee trusts me. I've been getting rejected from nursing/laboratory school and have been told that it looks like I "don't commit" to anything.
Finish it

 

[alpinism]

You're almost done with the PA program, just get it over with and don't burn any bridges.

If you finish the degree, you can work part time and make money while finishing the pre-reqs, as well as get a better feel for the differences between PA and MD.

Regardless of where you end up, the experience you'll get from a year of clinicals and working a year or two as a PA will definitely come in handy. Not to mention, the clinical experience will strengthen your application to med schools.

 

[rodmichael82]

I definitely think you should finish PA school. As a PA you will have valuable information that will be integral to your medical education. Don't just let go of that plan just because you want to be a MD. You can achieve both through your hard work.

 

[militaryman]

I am a 3rd year medical student as well as a PA-C. Do not drop your PA program. You can work as a PA and make great money will preparing for medical school and you can even work while in medical school. Also there is no guarantee you will get into Medical School and being a PA is a great back up plan.

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

Hey smallshot,

I am in a similar boat as you. Started PA school recently, realized that I can hack it, and have been pondering the idea of medical school (difference being that I considered PA/MD for quite some time). It seems as though advice on SDN, as well as on the PA forums, would be to get your PA-C and work a little bit. If nothing else, you'll be able to make some money and pay down a chunk of any debt you might have, while also gaining fantastic experience. You've come so far, so why not finish it out? It'll make you that much more unique in the application process if, after working for a bit alongside MD/DOs, you still want to apply to medical school. Who knows, you might end up liking the PA role once you actually get out in the workforce.

Good luck with your decision! Keep us posted.

 

[smallshot]

Thank you everyone for your input!

On the whole, it does seem like the most reasonable idea to stay in school and finish out the program, especially since I've already completed half of it and of course the potential to gain experience and make money while preparing for medical school.

Hypothetically speaking if all goes as planned (meaning I take my pre-reqs during the Fall 2014/Spring 2015 school year to apply for the Fall 2016 class) would anyone be able to give me a brief timetable as to 1) when would be best to start preparing for the MCAT, 2) when to take it and 3) when to start applying to schools?

 

[usmctodoc]

Knock out prereqs fall/spring, maybe start mcat studying around march-april 2015, then rock the mcat summer 2015. Late may/early june would probably be good, because you can get your scores back right around the first possible day to apply. While youre waiting for your scores you can polish your amcas and such and submit that in june.

 

[deleted6669]

ALSO consider the PA to DO bridge program at LECOM:
http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Accelerated-Physician-Assistant-Pathway-APAP/49/2205/612/2395

 

[whatbout2morrow]

Thank you everyone for your input!

On the whole, it does seem like the most reasonable idea to stay in school and finish out the program, especially since I've already completed half of it and of course the potential to gain experience and make money while preparing for medical school.

Hypothetically speaking if all goes as planned (meaning I take my pre-reqs during the Fall 2014/Spring 2015 school year to apply for the Fall 2016 class) would anyone be able to give me a brief timetable as to 1) when would be best to start preparing for the MCAT, 2) when to take it and 3) when to start applying to schools?

Is there any way you could finish up your remaining pre-reqs during the coming Fall 2013 & Spring 2014, study for and take the MCAT in summer 2014, finish up your remaining year of PA school, and then apply in summer 2015? This would give you a gap year to work.

 

[HipChick]

As others have suggested, finish out your program. That gives you a year to work before starting med school WHEN you get in.

Btw, what do you need calc for? Is that school specific? Take classes Fall/spring and if you feel like you can jam studying, true dedicated studying in then sit in late may.

 

[smallshot]

ALSO consider the PA to DO bridge program at LECOM:
http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Accelerated-Physician-Assistant-Pathway-APAP/49/2205/612/2395

Thanks! I have looked into this actually. The only difference is one less year of clnicals, right?

Is there any way you could finish up your remaining pre-reqs during the coming Fall 2013 & Spring 2014, study for and take the MCAT in summer 2014, finish up your remaining year of PA school, and then apply in summer 2015? This would give you a gap year to work.

I would love to take them this year, however I'll be on clinical rotations over the course of the next year which brings its own workload. And there isn't really any way I could actually take the classes, at least at my school where attendance is mandatory.

As others have suggested, finish out your program. That gives you a year to work before starting med school WHEN you get in.

Btw, what do you need calc for? Is that school specific? Take classes Fall/spring and if you feel like you can jam studying, true dedicated studying in then sit in late may.

I believe its needed for physics. And I've seen 1 year of math required on essentially every school that I've looked at. To this point I've only taken stats in college, so it would help fulfill that requirement.

 

[deleted6669]

Thanks! I have looked into this actually. The only difference is one less year of clnicals, right?

yup, PM primmadonna. she is in the 1st class as an ms3 right now.
ps, you don't need calc for physics. algebra based physics course is fine for medschool and is what most folks take.
I was thinking of going back a while ago and did a yr of physics with algebra and all the programs I was looking at were fine with this. physics is a lot of fun. much more interesting than anything in chem.

 

[HipChick]

I believe its needed for physics. And I've seen 1 year of math required on essentially every school that I've looked at. To this point I've only taken stats in college, so it would help fulfill that requirement.

Stats is usually enough for a large majority of the schools and calc is only required for calc based physics, which isn't required for the MCAT, only trig based physics. Could save you a class. Call the schools you're interested in.

 

[g8orlife]

So here's my situation:
1) Would it be (and if so how bad) detrimental to my application if I stopped PA school now and started preparing for the classes I need? How would this be viewed upon by admissions?

2) Let's say I want to take classes immediately after I finish PA school. I graduate from the PA program in August 2014 when I'll be 23. I still need to take 2 semesters of physics, organic chem II, calc and MCAT. Is there any chance in hell I'd be able to complete the admissions process for Fall 2015 or is it going to have to wait until Fall 2016? And when I go back and take these classes after PA school, is it even worth trying to find a part time job or should I just focus on classes and MCAT preparation?

1) As others have said, complete PA school. Keep those great connections, use the rest of PA school to "prepare for med school", & remember that you can work as a PA during your summers or slow rotations during med school.

2) My story: Made the decision halfway thru PA school. Graduated PA school December 2009. Spent 6 months completing pre-reqs (Physics 2, Physics 2 lab, Biochemistry), studying/taking the MCAT, & filling out applications. Worked for 6 months. Was accepted. Quit job & then, started school Summer 2011.

There's no way I could've applied in a shorter time and I only had 3 courses to take.

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

1) As others have said, complete PA school. Keep those great connections, use the rest of PA school to "prepare for med school", & remember that you can work as a PA during your summers or slow rotations during med school.

2) My story: Made the decision halfway thru PA school. Graduated PA school December 2009. Spent 6 months completing pre-reqs (Physics 2, Physics 2 lab, Biochemistry), studying/taking the MCAT, & filling out applications. Worked for 6 months. Was accepted. Quit job & then, started school Summer 2011.

There's no way I could've applied in a shorter time and I only had 3 courses to take.

Are you happy you made the switch? What made you decide halfway through PA school that it wasn't for you, and did you ever consider just dropping out in lieu of taking on more debt to finish the program? I'm sure it was a tough decision, one that I am struggling with now (just like the OP)!

 

[g8orlife]

Are you happy you made the switch? What made you decide halfway through PA school that it wasn't for you, and did you ever consider just dropping out in lieu of taking on more debt to finish the program? I'm sure it was a tough decision, one that I am struggling with now (just like the OP)!

Besides the stress of now having to choose one career for the rest of my life, I'm extremely pleased with my decision.

I changed because I felt like I wanted(needed?) to learn more, but there was never enough time to read/learn more b/c we always had to keep moving on to other subjects quickly. I found myself being frustrated everyday when I'd hear professors say some thing like, "I teach this part of lecture to my med students, but you don't have to know this." or "That's a good question you raise; but instead of the details, just think about complement's MAC as a 'thing' that punches wholes into things."
When it got to the point where these frustrations were the first thing I thought about every morning, I knew it wasn't for me.

Thoughts of dropping out left my mind abruptly after reading (on SDN & the PA Forum) about the positives of having PA school experience during med school. I basically don't study anything that's clinically-oriented & that leaves me more time to focus on nitty-gritty basic sciences or stuff that I never understood before.

 

[smallshot]

Besides the stress of now having to choose one career for the rest of my life, I'm extremely pleased with my decision.

I changed because I felt like I wanted(needed?) to learn more, but there was never enough time to read/learn more b/c we always had to keep moving on to other subjects quickly. I found myself being frustrated everyday when I'd hear professors say some thing like, "I teach this part of lecture to my med students, but you don't have to know this." or "That's a good question you raise; but instead of the details, just think about complement's MAC as a 'thing' that punches wholes into things."
When it got to the point where these frustrations were the first thing I thought about every morning, I knew it wasn't for me.

Thoughts of dropping out left my mind abruptly after reading (on SDN & the PA Forum) about the positives of having PA school experience during med school. I basically don't study anything that's clinically-oriented & that leaves me more time to focus on nitty-gritty basic sciences or stuff that I never understood before.

I completely relate. I've even gone out and bought books like Robbins, etc. to read, but I just don't have the time if I want to keep up with everything. I'm one of those people who like to know those details because it helps me comprehend the big picture much better. All but 2 of my professors are PAs and even when I had those types of questions they usually couldn't give me the answer I was looking for. It's frustrating because I expected the whole experience of PA school to be a bit more in depth than it was.

Now that you've been through both, can you briefly compare the two? And how much has PA school helped you out in Med school? How similar/different is say the medical school lecture on a disease, say pancreatitis or hypertension compared to PA school?

 

[g8orlife]

Now that you've been through both, can you briefly compare the two? And how much has PA school helped you out in Med school? How similar/different is say the medical school lecture on a disease, say pancreatitis or hypertension compared to PA school?

Now that you've been through both, can you briefly compare the two?

Someone just posted a perfect example of the comparison on the Allopathic thread:

To quote an older post:

"PA school and medical school are both sprints, at a 6 minute per mile pace, run through the same neighborhood, from the same starting point to the same finish line. It's just that the PA sprint is 2 miles, and the MD/DO sprint is 4 miles. By necessity, the PA students have to keep to the main roads to reach the finish line in only 2 miles. Med students are expected to take every side street and cul-de-sac available in their journey.

At the end, both may know how to navigate the neighborhood, know which streets cross where, and have a good grasp on the demographics of the area. But only the med students will be able to tell you how many cars, what type, and what color sit in every driveway of every house on every street in the entire area. In casual conversation, or even observing them work, you might get the impression that both learned pretty much the same thing from their races. But probe deeper, and you'll find that only one knows that the guy in 2034 on Rainbow Circle prefers charcoal to gas, and that his neighbor's wife is hot."

And how much has PA school helped you out in Med school?

Not much during first year but more during the 2nd year.... but I still had to work my butt off b/c there is a whole lot more detail in med school. I expect the gains to come in 2 weeks ... when I start MS3 rotations. Most of my classmates have no idea what an OR looks like, who a charge nurse is, what pseudomonas actually smells like. It's the clinical rotations for the next 2 years where I think I'll have the biggest gains.
Also, someone else in that same Allopathic thread also just answered this with an answer that I agree with:

Have done both. I estimate I knew about 45% of what I learned (re-learned) in med school from my PA education and practice--and while it was certainly an advantage the circuitous race analogy holds VERY true!

How similar/different is say the medical school lecture on a disease, say pancreatitis or hypertension compared to PA school?

Oh man, this was the biggest surprise for me in med school. I knew that the basic sciences would be tough, but I though I'd breeze thru disease-based lectures. Boy was I wrong. The detail in histology and pathology is sooo much more than I thought. My understanding of pancreatitis & hypertension is deeper now.

For example,
In one day of 3rd semester PA school we'd have one 2-hour lecture on pancreatitis. Then in the same day, we'd have another ~1-2 2-hour lectures on other GI diseases. Then, end the day with 2-hour GI pharm.

In one day of med school during MS2, we'd have a 1-hour lecture on the embryo & radiological anatomy/path of the pancreas + 2-hour lecture of pathology of pancreatitis + 2-hour lecture on clinical pancreatitis + 1-hour lecture on pharm related to the pancreas.
(don't forget that these med school lectures repeat/test relevant information from MS1 basic sciences; such as, biostats/epidemiology of pancreatitis, biochemical reactions that take place during enzyme activation by calcium, histology of the pancreas)
...Then, the next day, we'd do the same thing with another GI organ.

The med school clinical pancreatitis lecture (not the pathology lecture) would be very similar to the PA school pancreatitis lecture.

So, med school is more spread out with the material but there is more detail (mainly coming from pathology lectures)