passlineandodds

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what kind of money do pa's make? how much does a pa make coming out of school? what is the ceiling or upper limit on pa salaries? does it vary by what field a pa works in (e.g. medicine vs. surgery)?
 

Emedpa

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long answer to a short question....
national avg last year was $76,000
there is a lot of variation based on years in practice, prior experience and training, geographic area, and specialty.
on avg specialties make significantly more than primary care.
ranges( fp/peds/im) 55-80,000
im subspecialties/pain clinic 65-100k
er/ortho/surgery/interventional rads 65-130k+; I know of cardiaothorac surgical pa's who make 250 k/yr working for surgeons who make 10X that
er pa's can easily make > 100k after 5 years in practice
I know of a group of occupational med pa's who all make 120-240k/yr.....in alaska.....
like I said above, the avg is 76k, so don't expect significantly more unless you go into specialty practice. there are some new grads in saturated markets doing primary care who make 35-45k/yr( ny city for example). to make the big bucks you must be flexible on location and hours. hope this helped.
 
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Emedpa

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like I said, it's all a matter of having the right training and being in the right place at the right time. there are optional residencies available for pa's that significantly increase your chance for a high paying job. see www.appap.org for descriptions of these residencies. there are now residencies available in a variety of fields including em, ortho, surgery, psych, oncology, fp, peds, derm, urology, etc
good luck
 

MacGyver

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Originally posted by emedpa
I know of cardiaothorac surgical pa's who make 250 k/yr working for surgeons who make 10X that

Thats hardly representative of CT surgeons at large. 10X 250k = 2.5 million.

The AVERAGE pay for CT surgeons is 400-500k. I'd venture to say there are less than 10 CT surgeons in the whole ****ing country who make greater than 2 million.
 

Emedpa

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omsres- not too many docs want to work on an oil rig in the arctic ocean unaccompanied by family for months at a time on duty 24/7...even for that kind of money.....
 

papilloma

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It'd be nice for emedpa to stop misleading the public, especially those who are making life decisions based on questions answered here. Nice way of swaying by presenting salary of a 99.9999 percentile PA.
 

PACtoDOC

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EMED's first sentence stated that the national average was 76K for PA's nationwide. That is rather self explanatory to anyone without a learning disability, and even to most with one.
 

Monika

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Originally posted by papilloma
It'd be nice for emedpa to stop misleading the public, especially those who are making life decisions based on questions answered here. Nice way of swaying by presenting salary of a 99.9999 percentile PA.

Besides the learning disability, I am more concerned about anyone who would seriously consider making a "life-decision" based on a post from an internet forum. Papilloma, if your humanitarian spirit brings you to such a level of concern, (regarding supposed false information) for those in search of the truth, perhaps you should advocate for these poor souls by providing factually based information....with references. EMED comes to us with years of experience and wisdom, he shares it willingly and in with the spirit of advancing the PA profession & HELPING others. I wish you the best in your pursuit of the truth. It is always sad to see people, who are obviously miserable, that feel compelled to spread as much of their misery around, in hopes of making everyone around them as miserable as they are.

Take care,
Monika :)
 

PACtoDOC

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That is hilarious!!! I have Papilloma on my ignore list, thus I basically guessed when I saw his name and deleted post that he had likely said something cocky in response to EMED. I guessed correctly I presume!!!
 

governator

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i might have asked this before but i'll ask it again, i feel my sister is gettin ripped off. she's a PA working at staten island in NY for orthosurg, 2 x 12 hr shift plus 2 x 8 hr shift and she's making less that 45000/yr. isn't orthosurg or any surg PA makes over 75000/80000 /yr in general........and shouldn't the figure be higher for NYC?????? is she getting ripped off or the avg is actually closer to 45000/yr?
 

PACtoDOC

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Hey Gov,

EMED already responded to you many postings ago. He had said that because NYC is so competitive, the salaries are lower there. That is just capitalism at its worst unfortunately.
 
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governator

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i remember that ,but it doesn't make sense to me, all other salaries (other fields) are higher in NYC but seems to go down for PAs. anyway, just wanna see if anybody has good info on orthosurg jobs in NYC for me to pass on to my sis.
 

CVPA

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I gotta say, I think your sister is getting...how should I say this....a less than equitable deal. Even taking into consideration what EMED is saying, the salary that you are quoting sounds ridiculous. When I graduated in 1996, Lenox Hill was advertising for a CT surgery PA position offering a starting salary of $70K/year and that was 8-years ago!

According to the AAPA, the mean annual salary for those who graduated in 2002 is $64,565. Surgical specialties do typically pay more so I think your sister should show these numbers to her attending(s) and either re-negotiate or find another job. She can do better.

Good luck.
 

governator

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i think you're right, she said she atleast wanna have a yr of experience under her belt then look for a higher paying jobs (she graduated last yr). well, i guess her income is at the left side of the PA bell curve......... for now.
 

PublicHealth

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Median annual earnings of physician assistants were $64,670 in 2002. The middle 50 percent earned between $49,640 and $77,280. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $35,410, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $90,350. Median annual earnings of physician assistants in 2002 were $65,910 in general medical and surgical hospitals and $64,170 in offices of physicians.

According to the American Academy of Physician Assistants, median income for physician assistants in full-time clinical practice in 2003 was about $72,457; median income for first-year graduates was about $63,437. Income varies by specialty, practice setting, geographical location, and years of experience.

Source: http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos081.htm
 

papilloma

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Whether you are concerned or not about anybody, it does not exclude the fact that many people use this forum as a source of information to make decisions on their careers.

Emedpa comes with years or experience and with a biased outlook on the PA profession. I provided factual data from 4 unbiased links in the following thread. It appears from 2 websites the average salary for PA is more like 65k instead of 75k. I guess the years of experience didnt help emedpa pick that up:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106765&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

It is always sad to see people who do not know how to use the computer jump to criticize someone else because of their lack of skills in clicking to other threads.

Originally posted by Monika
Besides the learning disability, I am more concerned about anyone who would seriously consider making a "life-decision" based on a post from an internet forum. Papilloma, if your humanitarian spirit brings you to such a level of concern, (regarding supposed false information) for those in search of the truth, perhaps you should advocate for these poor souls by providing factually based information....with references. EMED comes to us with years of experience and wisdom, he shares it willingly and in with the spirit of advancing the PA profession & HELPING others. I wish you the best in your pursuit of the truth. It is always sad to see people, who are obviously miserable, that feel compelled to spread as much of their misery around, in hopes of making everyone around them as miserable as they are.

Take care,
Monika :)
 

niko327

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Papilloma,
don't you know the nationwide pa salary conspiracy is aimed at attracting new recruits to the pa profession. That's right, once in PA school all new recruits are summarily brainwashed and re-educated. I hear that they even take an oath. The purpose of all this you ask....? Well It has long been suspected in sdn circles that pa's are really just trying to take over all of healthcare, slowly and insidiously. I've heard that during the days of the final coming millions and millions of pa's will be preparing to flood the healthcare market making it impossible for cardiovascular surgeons and neonatal intensivists to find decent work. What can we do about this ever growing threat? I've advised my many like minded friends to write letters to our high school and undergraduate advisors, in an attempt to nip this pa thing in the bud. I for one applaud your keen eye and razor sharp rebuttals. Please continue your hard work and efforts to thwart these pa conspirators who dare to usurp the authority that potential med students such as your self are working so dearly to protect. Yes my dear friend, your efforts have not gone unnoticed, please keep up the good work and keep fighting the good fight......... for all of us.
 

MacGyver

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Originally posted by niko327
Papilloma,
don't you know the nationwide pa salary conspiracy is aimed at attracting new recruits to the pa profession. That's right, once in PA school all new recruits are summarily brainwashed and re-educated. I hear that they even take an oath. The purpose of all this you ask....? Well It has long been suspected in sdn circles that pa's are really just trying to take over all of healthcare, slowly and insidiously. I've heard that during the days of the final coming millions and millions of pa's will be preparing to flood the healthcare market making it impossible for cardiovascular surgeons and neonatal intensivists to find decent work. What can we do about this ever growing threat? I've advised my many like minded friends to write letters to our high school and undergraduate advisors, in an attempt to nip this pa thing in the bud. I for one applaud your keen eye and razor sharp rebuttals. Please continue your hard work and efforts to thwart these pa conspirators who dare to usurp the authority that potential med students such as your self are working so dearly to protect. Yes my dear friend, your efforts have not gone unnoticed, please keep up the good work and keep fighting the good fight......... for all of us.

FINALLY, SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

encore, encore! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

niko327

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Originally posted by MacGyver
FINALLY, SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

encore, encore! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Uh huh, Yeah that's exactly what I thought you'd say.
 

Bandit

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I can think of no other field with a wider gap in its population. There are great PAs that have earned respect and salaries similar to physicians and others that embarrass the profession and earn 35k in an aids clinic in the inner city. Most likely the later is more prevelent.

I have been in ER med for some time now and earn considerably more than most pmd`s in the area.
 
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governator

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congrats on making more money than pmd but i wouldn't go around calling AIDS clinic worker an "embarrasment to the profession"..... those guys are heroes in my book
 

Emedpa

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pmd= primary/private medical doctor aka ones regular physician as in " who is mr smith's pmd? similar to pcp= primary care provider.
of course if you were in medicine you would know that.......
bandit- I got the idea of what you meant. I would have said 35k/yr doing insurance physicals or working at a weight loss clinic though.....and I agree, many empa's
make more than undercompensated fp's who work for large group practices or hmo's. this is especially true in my area where the fp's make 90k or so and a seasoned empa makes >125k
 

papilloma

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i know seasoned high school graduates who make >150k a year after they became a supervisor of a company. apparently, you know seasoned PAs who live in the middle of nowhere and make >125k living in a huge igloo mansion with a bunch of timberwolves. i also know pediatricians from burma who barely passed steps 1,2,3 last year and making 90k in a competitive large city. i guess we're all convinced from these anecdotes that it's hell of a lot better to become PAs or just get a high school diploma rather than going to med school.

which brings up the important question, if PA makes so much money and so knowledgeable, why did pactodoc go to DO school and why are you contemplating DO school? Let me guess, PA education/salary not adequate....oh yeh, I supposively have a learning disability with a 65 IQ and still could figure that out...

Originally posted by emedpa
pmd= primary/private medical doctor aka ones regular physician as in " who is mr smith's pmd? similar to pcp= primary care provider.
of course if you were in medicine you would know that.......
bandit- I got the idea of what you meant. I would have said 35k/yr doing insurance physicals or working at a weight loss clinic though.....and I agree, many empa's
make more than undercompensated fp's who work for large group practices or hmo's. this is especially true in my area where the fp's make 90k or so and a seasoned empa makes >125k
 

timerick

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Originally posted by Bandit
There are great PAs that have earned respect and salaries similar to physicians and others that embarrass the profession and earn 35k in an aids clinic in the inner city.

Probably the ones who are earning 35k in an AIDS clinic are doing far more good for humanity than any of the ones who are earning "respect and salaries". I think they honor our profession, and they have my admiration.

Helping out people in real need doesn't pay well at all. Never has. To make good money you need to help out people who have lots of money.
 

Bandit

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pappy, noone said it would be better one way or the other. Kust financially viable.

You can put me down as one of those PAs in med school now. Is it for money and respect? Think what you wish. Toss around the idea of intellectual persuit and you might be on to something.


Tim, the point about the aids clinic was addressed. Change aids clinic to "insurance physicals or working at a weight loss clinic" -----get tthe point?
 

CVPA

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Guys, why are you engaging this idiot? I can't read what he is saying (thank God) because he is on my ignore list, I just see that he posted. I will, however, say this: Nothing, and I mean nothing that any of us say is ever going to change his attitude. He has decided to believe what he believes about PAs because he WANTS to believe it and to try to convince him otherwise is a total excercise in futility. He doesn't want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt or try to understand what we are saying. Maintaining his antagonistic position empowers him for some warped reason. The more important question is: Who gives a damn what he thinks?? This guy is a flea on our a--. Flick him off for Gods sake and be done with him.
 
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papilloma

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I never put you down. Emedpa has made previous claims about how PA is as/more competitive as medical school and a PA knows as much/more than a doctor. Also, he has been making claims PAs make more than docs. In that case, if one is already a PA, there is no monetary or intellectual incentive for any PA to pursue DO school. My post has nothing against you or any PAs going to DO school. Rather, it was directed towards emedpa to refute his previous claims.

I am going to report to the moderators that CVPA used personal attacks against me. The adjectives and sign language he used against me are both offensive and inappropriate for this forum.
 

PACtoDOC

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You are wasting your time replying Pappy because everyone has you on ignore now. You can piss in the wind for all we care, but the only one getting wet will be you!!! :)
 

papilloma

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Not really. All the bitter PAs whom I criticize regarding having too much concern for prestige placed me on ignore. However, everyone else's listening, including those looking for non-pro-PA-biased opinions regarding a career in health care.

Originally posted by PACtoDOC
You are wasting your time replying Pappy because everyone has you on ignore now. You can piss in the wind for all we care, but the only one getting wet will be you!!! :)
 

DrMom

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It is a TOS violation to personally attack another user. If you don't like what a person posts you're free to disagree (and post or not post), but you may not post attacks.
 

CVPA

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I just received a private email encouraging me to read Papilloma's response to my last post. I did read it and I have a couple of things to say.

First of all, calling you an idiot and a flea on our a-- is hardly a personal attack and not far from the truth. Furthermore, it is no worse than most of your responses on this forum.

EXAMPLE: It's a good break from life to come in here and realize the idiots that exist in this world, especially in the health care profession. I'm sure I'm going to get sick of this soon though. Papilloma; Posted 3/7/04 5:59 pm

The initial purpose of my response was to encourage users to simply not respond to your malignant posts. The tone of the post, however, was as a result of your relentless attacks on a profession that many of us hold near-and-dear to our hearts. You have indiscriminately trashed it with comments similar in nature to the one above on more than one occasion. You can't trash a few PAs and make it as though it is not an attack on the entire profession, because it is, and as such you are fair game to any PA on this forum.

Out of your 53 posts on SDN, 37 of them have been in the PA Forum. 37! Out of those 37, zero have been constructive positive posts that could ever be construed as a contribution to the overall mission of the Student Doctor Network. You cannot come to this forum, attack people and their profession, and then cry foul when it gets a little nasty. You fired the first shot when you came here and posted your first thread in the PA forum entitled "This forum is a joke".

You reap what you sow.
 

PACtoDOC

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I back CVPA 100%. These fleas have come into our forum and trashed it! Then the moderators only do something when the fleas complain. Maybe the moderators should spend more time moderating because I seem to recall the tables were turned weeks ago before we all decided to ignore them. So how about we seriously all decide to ignore them?
 

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Originally posted by PACtoDOC
I back CVPA 100%. These fleas have come into our forum and trashed it! Then the moderators only do something when the fleas complain. Maybe the moderators should spend more time moderating because I seem to recall the tables were turned weeks ago before we all decided to ignore them. So how about we seriously all decide to ignore them?

If you have issues with a post, report it. We mods don't have time to read all of the posts. Also know that you may not see action being taken because it isn't all public. Please give us the benefit of the doubt on this.
 

PACtoDOC

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OOOOOHHHH.....Action.....Wow!!! I personally think having moderators is a big joke in and of itself. What is this, Kindergarten? If Donald Trump were anywhere around I would see someone getting fired in the board room for lack of leadership skills. No names mentioned though, so I could be talking about anyone, so this does not violate TOS.
 

papilloma

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I made a general statement regarding idiocy. It was not targetted against any one person or societal group (no I was not referring to all PAs). This forum and other forums do not belong to you or any group exclusively, so I can post as many post as I want. Whether you personally find my posts constructive or not, that is not my concern because someone else might find them useful. My posts obviously do not offend the moderators or else I'd be banned. To REPEAT, I am not against PAs, but do feel reluctant towards PAs (or anyone for that matter) who are biased and overly concerned about prestige. So if I "trash" as you call it (my word would be "disagree with") posters who happen to be all males, I am against all male species? Maybe I happen to disagree with posters who happen to all be males? Currently, I disagree with posters who happen to be PAs. My reason for disagreement, AGAIN, bias and prestige. Encouraging others to ignore someone who disagrees with you by using name calling, that is an extremely mature method of enhancing civil discussions on an internet forum and well worth the justification...(sarcasm there).

Apparently pactodoc do not only wish to antagonize those who disagree with him, but also moderators. That's an uphill battle I must warn you. Any personal attack with name calling and inappropriate sign language WOULD BE considered kindergarten-like behavior at least by most, and that's when moderators intervention are not a joke. Thank you Dr Mom by stepping in and interrupting this kindergarten-like play.

Originally posted by CVPA
I just received a private email encouraging me to read Papilloma's response to my last post. I did read it and I have a couple of things to say.

First of all, calling you an idiot and a flea on our a-- is hardly a personal attack and not far from the truth. Furthermore, it is no worse than most of your responses on this forum.

EXAMPLE: It's a good break from life to come in here and realize the idiots that exist in this world, especially in the health care profession. I'm sure I'm going to get sick of this soon though. Papilloma; Posted 3/7/04 5:59 pm

The initial purpose of my response was to encourage users to simply not respond to your malignant posts. The tone of the post, however, was as a result of your relentless attacks on a profession that many of us hold near-and-dear to our hearts. You have indiscriminately trashed it with comments similar in nature to the one above on more than one occasion. You can't trash a few PAs and make it as though it is not an attack on the entire profession, because it is, and as such you are fair game to any PA on this forum.

Out of your 53 posts on SDN, 37 of them have been in the PA Forum. 37! Out of those 37, zero have been constructive positive posts that could ever be construed as a contribution to the overall mission of the Student Doctor Network. You cannot come to this forum, attack people and their profession, and then cry foul when it gets a little nasty. You fired the first shot when you came here and posted your first thread in the PA forum entitled "This forum is a joke".

You reap what you sow.
 

medtechv79

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wow papilloma u have some anger or hostility beneath yer surface. It seems u have a lot of resentment toward the PA profession. Nonetheless I am not attacking u personally. Reading yer posts it sounds like that.
But anyways, I read one of yer posts and u ask if u become a PA why then, go to med school why not just stop there and have all medical students become PA's?
Do u know that an MD is a professional PHD degree??? PA is more like a master's degree. Would u want someone to examine u and not have extensive knowledge on that subject? Doctors unlike PA's should have extensive knowledge in their specialty area. This way if there is a complex problem they are likely the problem solvers. PA's though a reputable job as well, does not have extensive in depth knowledge on this subject and cannot be referred to in complex situations. If u had cancer, would u want a PA to do everything??? and prolly leave u hanging because they only have a broad surface knowledge of medical science??
This is why PA's go to med school they want to have more autonomy and be experts in their field...in short they want the pursuit of knowledge!!! I would assume if u are an educated person u would understand that...there is nothing wrong with educating yerself. its the way to get ahead....
 

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Also, I don't understand why every single forum ppl are always arguing. If u give yer opinion fine. If u disagree fine. Why do ppl make such a big deal about it? MY god, papilloma may make some harsh statements but I think ppl are making it that much worse by personally attacking him and thinking he's personally attacking u. I think he's attacking the profession. And papilloma maybe u could tone it down a bit. So ppl tote the profession.
IF u were a PA I'm sure u would to....if yer proud of yer job and stuff. ppl are giving their advice especially if they have experience in this area.
U don't seem like u have any experience. U seem to take other ppl's experience and make it like its the gold standard. U should really talk mroe about yerself and less about yer acquaintances. It would make yer arguments more justifiable.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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