PA Salary

[deleted662474]

Will the salaries for physician assistants decrease in the future since more people are getting into the profession and the demand for them decreases because of the saturation (more people for the job)? Will the pa profession become like the pharmacy field in terms of saturation? Thank you

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[deleted6669]

The only areas that will become saturated are major metro areas. NYC already has low pa salaries because of the # of new grads willing to work for peanuts for the "privilege" of staying in NYC. In rural and underserved areas, PA salaries are still going up and likely will continue to do so due to the unmet demand for services in those settings. Communities docs don't want to work in typically pay PAs very well to staff primary care clinics and rural EDs. some of these folks are actually making MD level salaries ($175-200k) already. I recently turned down an opportunity to work part time in a fairly unpleasant work environment for over $100/hr ($90/hr + $10/pt). They can't get enough docs to work at this particular hospital due to location and patient demographics so are willing to pay whatever it takes to get folks in the door. it's almost 3 hrs from my home and within that distance I already have 2 better rural per diem jobs (better in terms of scope of practice/autonomy, not pay).

 

[deleted662474]

Thanks emedpa. Would you recommend the pa profession? I'm deciding between pa and dentistry?

 

[Makati2008]

Thanks emedpa. Would you recommend the pa profession? I'm deciding between pa and dentistry?

Dentistry due to the independent component as well as less interference from government entities

 

[deleted662474]

Dentistry due to the independent component as well as less interference from government entities

What about the cost of attending dental school. You think it's a good investment?

 

[Screwtape]

What about the cost of attending dental school. You think it's a good investment?

It definitely can be a good investment, but same for the opposite as well. Keep your debt low (<$250k) and living options post-grad flexible. Follow those two guidelines and you will be just fine.

 

[pamac]

It's not just places like New York that are saturated. I live west of the Rockies, and not in California. In my metropolitan area, new grads who want to live in or near the city also pay a price for that privilege with low salary and competition. There is a pa school in town putting out new grads every year. Rural is better, but it's not putting those folks in 140k territory. To make as much as a physician, you are talking about working some serious overtime. A newer surgery PA was telling my surgical tech friend that they made 85k working 55 hour weeks with call. As a nurse, if I worked 55 hours a week, I'd make that much without having to take call. That PA left for a better deal elsewhere, so it's imaginable that was an outlier of sorts, but I hear about new grads up against that kind of market. That PA has $250k debt from PA and undergrad from one of the best schools in the nation.

One of the reasons I made the switch from looking at PA to NP was the cost factor. I was looking at $150k debt and lost income. Not worth it to me. I'm debt free, with a large chunk of my house paid off, and will finish my NP having paid very little cost. There are smart ways to manage cost, and it helps to take that into consideration. That's tough to do if you get an acceptance letter saying you got into PA school. It's like "the good news is you got into pa school, the bad news is that you only got into the expensive ones that also require a move to an expensive place." It's hard enough to get into that some people don't ask themselves if that particular scenario is worth it long term.

Dental school seems like it's a really good investment. But the job would drive me nuts, I think. I was heavy into pursuing dental school for a while until I realized that.

 

[deleted662474]

It's not just places like New York that are saturated. I live west of the Rockies, and not in California. In my metropolitan area, new grads who want to live in or near the city also pay a price for that privilege with low salary and competition. There is a pa school in town putting out new grads every year. Rural is better, but it's not putting those folks in 140k territory. To make as much as a physician, you are talking about working some serious overtime. A newer surgery PA was telling my surgical tech friend that they made 85k working 55 hour weeks with call. As a nurse, if I worked 55 hours a week, I'd make that much without having to take call. That PA left for a better deal elsewhere, so it's imaginable that was an outlier of sorts, but I hear about new grads up against that kind of market. That PA has $250k debt from PA and undergrad from one of the best schools in the nation.

One of the reasons I made the switch from looking at PA to NP was the cost factor. I was looking at $150k debt and lost income. Not worth it to me. I'm debt free, with a large chunk of my house paid off, and will finish my NP having paid very little cost. There are smart ways to manage cost, and it helps to take that into consideration. That's tough to do if you get an acceptance letter saying you got into PA school. It's like "the good news is you got into pa school, the bad news is that you only got into the expensive ones that also require a move to an expensive place." It's hard enough to get into that some people don't ask themselves if that particular scenario is worth it long term.

Dental school seems like it's a really good investment. But the job would drive me nuts, I think. I was heavy into pursuing dental school for a while until I realized that.

Why do you think Dentistry would drive you nuts? Is it because you'll be staring into peoples mouths all day?

If I do decide on PA, I am planning on working in Orthopedic surgery, but I don't want to work 55 hours a week w/ call and only make 85k

 

[pamac]

They start at $85k in my area... Doesn't mean that they live at at level for very long. Dentistry= having patients that you talk at rather than have conversations with.... You have your hands in their mouth.

 

[deleted6669]

ortho pas after a few years should be making > 110k. also consider an ortho pa residency if you want your pick of the top jobs.

 

[crossstr]

@emedpa not entirely true as I was fresh out of PA school and hired by a prestigious hospital for ortho. We're a teaching hospital and have PA residents come through as part of our program. My supervisor said she wouldn't even consider taking a specific PA resident because he only seemed interested in the surgery not the actual patient. I think it just depends on the person. A PA is a PA the same as a Doctor is a Doctor. Sometimes a fellowship helps other times it doesn't really matter! Same for the PA world. Also my salary is horrible compared to that of my classmates, but the hospital where I work is kind of known for that sort of thing and they all work in rural areas/private practice.

 

[deleted6669]

all else being equal, someone who does a postgrad program will get the job over someone who doesn't. I agree there can be personality issues, but with folks who can relate to others as human beings more education/training/experience can only be a good thing.

 

[keep]

Is there any salary diffrence between fresh PA VS NP (nationwide)?

 

[deleted6669]

the avg pa makes more than the avg np by a few k/yr due to the fact that more pas work in hospital based specialties, which pay more than outpt specialties favored by nps..
a pa and an np working at the same job doing the same things at the same seniority level make the same money.

 

[pamac]

Or (as many nurses are apt to insist)more PAs are men, and there is a gender gap. Male NPs make as much as male PAs.

I'd wager it's more like what you are saying.

 

[pamac]

I wonder who works more hours? Probably PAs on average.

 

[deleted6669]

Or (as many nurses are apt to insist)more PAs are men, and there is a gender gap. Male NPs make as much as male PAs.

I'd wager it's more like what you are saying.

most PA classes now are 75% female. very different than 20 yrs ago when I was in PA school.

 

[deleted6669]

I wonder who works more hours? Probably PAs on average.

yup, probably because of call, folks working in surgery, ER schedules, etc vs primary care/women's health/psych.

 

[pamac]

Even if %75 of recent class PAs were female (which is probably the case, if not greater), the field as a whole is still significantly male at this point (34%) , vs %7 of NPs being male. 3500 NPs are in ERs vs 7500 PAs, and ER schedules are generally set schedules like clinics anyway. I'm thinking surgery and specialty call accounts for a lot of extra hours.

I'd be interested to see how male NPs compare salary wise to male PAs.

 

[deleted6669]

ER schedules are generally set schedules like clinics anyway.
I'd be interested to see how male NPs compare salary wise to male PAs.

Don't know how you got the idea that ER schedules are set. they are for the nursing staff, but provider schedules are usually all over the place. An ER md/do/pa/np will work X shifts/mo , but those shifts are all over the map covering a 24 hr day, with the exception of a few folks(like me) who prefer to work all nights- although my nights don't follow any pattern either, I can be on 3, off 2, on 5, off 1, on 3, off 7, etc.
PAs and NPs everywhere I have worked that use both make the same $ at the same level of senority regardless of gender.

 

[pamac]

They are set in that you usually work your X amount of days (as wacky as they may be scheduled for), and generally aren't on call.

I'm not exactly how the gender gap in pay works, but I have my suspicions that I'll keep to myself with ****** to the veracity of claims. However, try insisting it's a farce to a feminist. All I know is that your male NPs make more on the whole than female NPs and more than female PAs. Again, I can guess at why, but it's there.

 

[deleted6669]

They are set in that you usually work your X amount of days (as wacky as they may be scheduled for), and generally aren't on call.

I'm not exactly how the gender gap in pay works, but I have my suspicions that I'll keep to myself with ****** to the veracity of claims. However, try insisting it's a farce to a feminist. All I know is that your male NPs make more on the whole than female NPs and more than female PAs. Again, I can guess at why, but it's there.

I will go ahead and say it. many male providers work more avg hrs/yr over a decade because they don't take maternity leave several times during their careers.
we just hired a bunch of new pas and unofficially looked for men or women unlikely to have kids( you know who I mean) because the last 4 female em pas we hired all took 4 months of maternity leave twice within their first 5 years of employment, generally during busy summers, leaving us scrambling for coverage.

 

[pamac]

Yep. Same as nursing. It's just the reality of what it takes to be a mom, occasionally married to a guy who expects the wife to work and still stay ahead of what's going on at home. As a male nurse, I usually don't get bogged down by what's at home, and can pick up shifts like crazy, drop everything to come in and fill in, and not call in sick or request to be sent home on low patient volume. I rarely run into females that pick up extra shifts, but most of my male peers regularly do. Not saying it's fair, but there are specific pressures put on women, most of them are outside of work.

 

[FCMike11]

They are set in that you usually work your X amount of days (as wacky as they may be scheduled for), and generally aren't on call.

I'm not exactly how the gender gap in pay works, but I have my suspicions that I'll keep to myself with ****** to the veracity of claims. However, try insisting it's a farce to a feminist. All I know is that your male NPs make more on the whole than female NPs and more than female PAs. Again, I can guess at why, but it's there.

You aren't sure how the gender gap works, but you keep making claims about pay scale with nothing to substantiate your claims?......

 

[pamac]

Point to some claims I made about gender gap. I mentioned some observations that I didn't say were backed up by research. Would you like me to go and find the stat that says that male NPs make as much as male PAs roughly? Would you like that cited in APA or MLS style?

I know how I'm told that the gender gap is supposed to work, but I also know things like new nurses, male and female, start out at exactly the same wage at my facility. I read of a study on nursing wages the other day that claimed male nurses make more than female nurses (from an article in the Los Angeles times) and they claimed that the research demonstrated that even after correcting for experience and prior specialties, male nurses made like $6000 more per year. What I'm not clear on is how they factor in all the extra shifts my male peers seem to work vs my female peers, or how my male peers are more reliable workers due to not having to carry the mantle of being a workhorse at the hospital as a nurse, and also a workhorse as a mom at home. It's tough for some of the gals at work to find childcare to work extra like I can as a male, and those extra shifts add up in terms of experience and value to my supervisors. So yes, I'm familiar with the concept of gender gap in wages, but I'm not so sure how many researchers have examined it. Having been involved in clinical research, I've come to appreciate where nuances can be overlooked. But, mike, nothing I've said veers very far off the mark unless you'd like to highlight something that has.

 

[pamac]

So the survey I was looking at must have been the one from Advance, and from a couple years back. Male NPs did and still do out earn female PAs, and were about $2k less than male PAs. Then in 2013 male PA wages skyrocketed by $10k. I'd be interested to know what would prompt a jump like that in one year, but since anyone can fill out that survey, it's prone to some selectivity of sorts.

As far as my personal experience as a supervisor looking to fill schedule gaps, I find that on the whole, male nurses seem to be able to drop everything and come in for premium pay a lot easier than the female nurses. I also seem to have less sick call from males, less leave taken, fewer low census call off requests, and fewer schedule requests than from females. They are less able to take advantage of overtime like males are as well. It's anecdotal, but it's what I've seen. But as far as quality of product, I don't feel like males exceed females performance-wise. But attendance... Yes. A lot of the females also are less interested in being jumped to other units to fill in. Those little things add up when it comes time to negotiate. Another issue I find is females tend to underestimate their value and not push for things they might want vs some of the males that overestimate themselves.