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PA State Medical License

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by docronmd1, May 28, 2002.

  1. docronmd1

    docronmd1 Junior Member
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    After all the stress of applying, interviewing and the match, i imagined that i could finally relax and look forward to the start of residency, but NO!! Now i have worry about the silly PA state license. :mad:

    I was just informed that there might be a discrepency and tomorrow i'll know exactly what it is. Then i'll have to get back to my medical school, which by the way is in another country, and beg my friends there to get my med school to send whatever document the board now wants. I understand that scrutiny and verification of applicant credentials is important, but all my medical school documents and credentials AND my personal information has already been closely scutinized by the ECFMG, NBME and the INS. How much more? Does EVERY government agency have to scutinize the SAME documents over and over again? I just hope this doesn't delay the start of my residency. Anyone experiencing/ed the same problem? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
     
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  3. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    Pennsylvania had a particular problem with falsification of documents at a particular off-shore medical school about two years back and what you are currently experiencing is the backlash of that. Last year about 50% of the residents about to start in PA were delayed initially, while the paperwork was being scrutinized ever so closely in Harrisburg. It got so bad that the programs were starting to coordinate efforts to go to Harrisburg themselves to protest the inordinate delays. Many interns didn't start until the end of July or even later. Someone I know started as late as September. After all that happened last summer, I would have thought this problem would have cleared itself up by now. But by your post, apparently not. And, yes, I do agree with you that once documentation has been validated by ECFMG, as a recognized certifying agency, it should be universally accepted. Unfortunately, that is not the case, and just as a side note, when you are ready to apply for state licensure, you will go through this rigamarole once again. Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news. Good luck to you.
     
  4. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    I didn't have TOO much trouble, but then again, I had friends go through it the year before and followed their advice. However, I am aware of a Caribbean grad here who was unable to start until August because of some of the same issues you are going through.

    This too will pass...just take a deep breath and try to get through it.
     
  5. nilblue

    nilblue Junior Member
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    Hi,
    it's the same situation here- and the worst of it is I can't yet apply for my visa until it's processed.
    I just hope that Iam able to start within July- hope that mising the orientation will not be a major headache during the initial couple of months. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
     
  6. docronmd1

    docronmd1 Junior Member
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    Thanks for the support, guys.
    I've been told that if my license isn't issued by mid-july, i would not be allowed to join the program. This is so crazy. I hope it doesn't come down to me having to look for open positions in programs in NY or other states where the license isn't an issue.
     
  7. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    docronmd1: What is your discrepency? I posted my experience here, its on page 4 now."State Licencse fiasco, is driving me crazy" My program told me not to call them as they are such a pain and you can't get necessary answers from them...they are just the paper processors anyway it's the State Board (appointed by the Gov't) that will make the final decision on the paper records you have supplied. And if you research the law there are other things they consider for licensing. What irritates me is the PA board dictates to the medical schools what is required not the other way around. Once again the inmates are ruling the institution!!! Good luck!!
     
  8. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    NuMD97: You stated in response to this difficult PA State Licensing post about again having to apply to the state!!! I thought that was what we were doing, getting a license from the state. Are you saying we have to go through this again? Could you enlighten me? I'm confused!!
     
  9. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by carddr:
    <strong>NuMD97: You stated in response to this difficult PA State Licensing post about again having to apply to the state!!! I thought that was what we were doing, getting a license from the state. Are you saying we have to go through this again? Could you enlighten me? I'm confused!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think he is referring to the full, unrestricted MD licensure not the MT (which is the Medical Trainee license they give to interns who haven't passed Step III and done the requisite GME). When it comes time to apply for the MD license you have to produce a bunch of paperwork as well (usually from your residency). I suppose DOs go through the same thing.

    Hope this helps.

    BTW, your program should be more understanding. As long as your license is in the process, they should allow you to start work, even if it is in a non-clinical capacity - ie, doing research, doing a Rads elective, etc. I didn't actually have my license in hand the day I started but was allowed to because it was in the works.
     
  10. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    Would it be correct to assume you didn't get paid until you received your license?
     
  11. docronmd1

    docronmd1 Junior Member
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    carddr, I read the earlier thread about your licensing experience and i seriously hope the PA board doesn't pull the same thing on me. I too, incidentally have done twice as much clinical time as their minimum requirements.

    I STILL don't know what the discrepancy is, all i know is that there is one! The coordinator at my program says that when she inquired about the status of my applic, she was told that a discrepancy notice had already been sent to the hosp. She says no one at the hosp received any such discrepancy notice on my behalf. So she e-mailed the board to send it again. Meanwhile, i'm sitting at the edge of my seat waiting to know what went wrong.

    Also, i can relate to your experience while trying to get iformation from the board. I called the board once, and was told that all communication about my license would be only with the hosp. When i told my coor that i'd called, i received an e-mail from her about how upset the board gets when applicants call, and that in the past this only delayed the process further.

    Kimberli, if i don't get my license by 1st july, i will discuss this with my PD. Like you mentioned, he should be willing to allow me to start some kind of non-clinical post until i get the permit.
     
  12. brownman

    brownman Member
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    Hey Guys,

    My program just told me that I got a discrepancy because I hadn't gotten an official document from my med school. I called my med school and they sent it this week. So it will get to them eventually, but I know...KNOW..there will be some other crazy hoop I haven't even thought of, that I'll have to deal with. Man, someone please shoot me. I hate this...I need an aspirin. The thing that scares me is if these guys lose their mind and start saying stuff about finding another program, yada, yada. Then I would have to kill....and I don't want to kill. I'm a pacifist.
     
  13. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    Sorry for the ambiguity of my previous post. Yes, as Kimberli stated, what I meant was in terms of the permanent license when you are ready to put your shingle out, as it were. But, as Kim already said, don't worry about that part now. Do everything you can to expedite the training license even if it means going to Harrisburg to plead your case. Several I knew did just that last year. Take the program at its word that they won't let you continue after mid-July, unfair I know, but that will allow you to accelerate whatever it takes to ensure that you do start. I'm really sorry to hear that the same stuff as last year is being revisited. The programs were equally as upset as the housestaff since as a result of this nonsense the hospitals were grossly understaffed July 1st.

    See if you can get faxes from your medical school to see what they sent to the hospital. Perhaps that would shed light on the discrepancy. Another suggestion that some do is to obtain a FEDEX account that would allow the foreign medical school to expedite your paperwork without you having to go there in person and having the paperwork billed to your account. Then perhaps you can scrutinize what the 'discrepancy' is about that way (assuming they don't have the time or desire to send faxes to you). Usually it's something simple that can be explained. But keep in mind you just might have to go to Harrisburg and plead your case.

    Best of luck.

    Nu
     
  14. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    docronmd1: we were told discrepency notice went to my hospital on May the 8th, the co-or didn't receive it till May 17th, who knows where they sent it. They actually called my co-or and told her I was rude, unprofessional, we had a big laugh about that one, now who is really unprofessional???

    Hope to get this resolved soon. What contributes to all this is the forms tell you to do one thing and the discrepancy notice requires something totally different. I have set up the FEDEX for my school and we are working on the process.

    NuMD97: I would really like to know who you could plead your case with up there, everyone I talk to so far is out to lunch on this, of course the only ones I have talked to have been the administrators/processors. I know the Commissioner and the Board members are appointed by the governor (who is only temporary,having taken Tommy Ridge's place) so I suppose they would be the ones to try and resolve this issue with if July comes and goes and the status is the same. Am I right?

    Yea, we are applying for a Graduate License and it's only for one year.
     
  15. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by carddr:
    <strong>Would it be correct to assume you didn't get paid until you received your license?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I was paid from day 1 and assumed all clinical duties as if I had the license in hand. My license shows it was issued 7/27/01 - or several weeks after starting residency.
     
  16. docronmd1

    docronmd1 Junior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by NuMD97:
    <strong>But keep in mind you just might have to go to Harrisburg and plead your case.

    Best of luck.

    Nu</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NuMD97;
    When i called the board, i was told not to call directly, only the residency program officials "could do that". Even the program coordinator advised me not to contact the board directly becoz "it upsets them".

    Under these circumstances, i don't know if they would even speak to me if i landed up in harrisburg.
     
  17. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    My license is proceeding well, but I hear that Ic annot start work without the Soc. Sec Number, and the SSA is taking 30 days to issue them. However, my program says they'll work around it. What this means is that I probably will get double pay for the second month, and none for the first.
     
  18. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    If memory serves, the contact person at the Board was Cindy Warner. At the point that the license was officially given, was the day the GME office told someone to go up to Harrisburg.

    Kim, you sound like you were the exception to the rule. They finally allowed some to tag along as "observers" in the hospital, but in no way were they allowed to be assigned patients due to the liability issue. But the GME office of the hospital didn't tell the rest of the crew who were waiting, so they lost that month, even two months for some. All in all it was handled miserably all around, but mostly by the folks in Harrisburg.

    I wish all you folks well. Hopefully it will resolve quickly.
     
  19. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by NuMD97:
    <strong>
    Kim, you sound like you were the exception to the rule. They finally allowed some to tag along as "observers" in the hospital, but in no way were they allowed to be assigned patients due to the liability issue. But the GME office of the hospital didn't tell the rest of the crew who were waiting, so they lost that month, even two months for some. All in all it was handled miserably all around, but mostly by the folks in Harrisburg.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not sure why. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to start or that I would have to do a research or non-clinical elective month first and make the missed surgical month up at the end. However, I was told that since it was being processed, that since they had my ECFMG number and that I had a SSN, I could start clinical duties. There were a few AMGs who also got theirs late. So not sure if we were in violation here (not that that would suprise me) or if they made some sort of exception.
     
  20. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I was worried that I wouldn't be able to start or that I would have to do a research or non-clinical elective month first and make the missed surgical month up at the end. However, I was told that since it was being processed, that since they had my ECFMG number and that I had a SSN, I could start clinical duties. There were a few AMGs who also got theirs late. So not sure if we were in violation here (not that that would suprise me) or if they made some sort of exception. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You seemingly were the exception. The newspapers were carrying this story around this time two summers ago already. The folks in the government were in an uproar about all this. It was going to prove to be a very dangerous situation. It's just incredible to see that they haven't gotten their act together in two years' time. Some just will not learn from the lessons of the past. Quite a few colleagues went up to Harrisburg on an individual basis, and this was suggested to many by the GME office itself.

    As far as the illegality issues go: I personally would not work under those conditions. I worked too long and too hard to have licensing issues come into question on a "technicality". Because of the delay, the original license issued to me fell a few days short. Others noted it as well and reported it to the GME office. I insisted on clearing up those few days with the board, in writing , with copies to me to assure us all that I was allowed to touch patients. I wouldn't work on patients without it.
     
  21. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    Any good news from you guys in PA yet? I was a tad curious if you resolved those training license issues already. It's beyond my understanding why the board, knowing full well that this bottleneck has been occurring for the last two years, has not found the means to expedite the paperwork to everyone's satisfaction.
     
  22. docronmd1

    docronmd1 Junior Member
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    Nu,

    The last few weeks have been incredibly frustating but finally i had a lucky break this week.

    First, the PA board insisted that they had not received the documentation from my med school. I provided the tracking no.s and guess what they said...that the documents received with those tracking no.s were regarding a colleague from my med school who has also applied for the PA license. I spoke to that classmate who provided me with the tracking no. that her docus were sent by, which obviously was different from mine. For days, the board contact insisted that my docus were not received. I almost gave up on them and was trying to have the documents re-submitted urgently by my med school, when fortunately the coordinator at my program made one last call to the board, and this time the license agent said that they have my med school docu.s and they r in order, but now they can't find my ECFMG certi staus report! I had to stop my med school from re-submitting new docu.s (the fee is pretty high) and instead re-applied for the ECFMG status report to be sent to the board.

    Becoz of this "oversight" on the part of the board, i might have to start late and this period will be deducted out of my vacation. I am really pissed! I understand that the state board is flooded with documentation, but if they can't handle the load, they shouldn't put us thru this nonsense and mess up our lives!

    Now, my only concerns are that don't lose the docu.s that they have finally found, and that they don't lose the ECFMG status report when they receive it (the 2nd time!)

    Ron.
     
  23. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Docronmd1:

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The last few weeks have been incredibly frustating but finally i had a lucky break this week. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad to hear it, Ron. Believe me, as frustrated as you are by all this, it could be worse. Technically, per board rules they cannot deduct the time it takes for you to get licensure from your vacation time, but if you have any desire to switch institutions for the following year for whatever reasons, it's probably best that you are in sync with the calendar year for that.

    It's a rough year, but you've gotten this far, just bear that in mind. You'll be fine. :)

    Nu
     
  24. nilblue

    nilblue Junior Member
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    Yeah....I got it today-at last- tonight I'll be able to have a celebaration after this agonizing wait. <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     

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